Kia Will Lead Apple Car Project Work Under Hyundai Motor, Report Says (cnet.com) 68
Hyundai Motor, the parent automaker of Hyundai and Kia, will task the Kia division with Apple Car work. The brand also said on Wednesday it's looking at cooperation with foreign firms surrounding self-driving and electric vehicles. CNET reports: Kia made no mention of Apple, though the comment follows the reported connections to the tech giant. Earlier this month, various reports pegged the Apple Car as alive and well inside the tech company and said we could see a final vehicle in 2024 at the earliest. A separate report said the company may show a prototype of the vehicle next year. Interestingly, one of the reports last month also named Kia's factory in Georgia as the rumored home for Apple Car production, which coincides with news of Kia's possible involvement in the latest round of rumors.
Reportedly, Apple is hard at work on breakthrough EV battery technology and automated driving systems to help usher in a game changing car. Choosing an established automaker to handle final production seems simple, since Apple has zero history of building cars. If you need an example of how difficult it is to build cars, take a look at Tesla's relatively short history in the business.
Reportedly, Apple is hard at work on breakthrough EV battery technology and automated driving systems to help usher in a game changing car. Choosing an established automaker to handle final production seems simple, since Apple has zero history of building cars. If you need an example of how difficult it is to build cars, take a look at Tesla's relatively short history in the business.
I'll wait for Mazda. (Score:2)
Scuttlebutt has it Mazda's built a straight-six overhead twincam, 3 liters, and will be driving a new generation of RWD Mazda cars and SUV-ish things.
I applaud apple for getting into the EV market.. but I cast a rather skeptical eye at the partners they've chosen. Those two have never been, and likely never will be, on my "go look at" list. I would've chosen.. differently.
I'm just not into EVs yet. I want one more glorious Mazda RWD 2-seater, it could be a wankel, it could be a straight six... I"m really
Re:I'll wait for Mazda. (Score:4, Insightful)
I cast a rather skeptical eye at the partners they've chosen.
It doesn't matter if Kia and Hyundai are terrible at design. For the new cars, Apple will be doing the design. Kia and Hyundai will just be contract manufacturers.
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I cast a rather skeptical eye at the partners they've chosen.
It doesn't matter if Kia and Hyundai are terrible at design. For the new cars, Apple will be doing the design. Kia and Hyundai will just be contract manufacturers.
The problem I have with Kia and Hyundai is the driveability. The electronic steering feels weird and they just have no connection with the road.
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The electronic steering feels weird and they just have no connection with the road.
I don't notice a disconnected feeling with the road. The electronic steering makes the lane-centering feature of my KIA much easier to implement. Once the car is traveling over 40 MPH, I can turn on the lane centering and the car will steer itself to keep centered in the lane as long as the lanes are well marked. However, after 30 seconds with no hands on the steering wheel, the system will alarm and remind you to keep your hands on the wheel.
For long road trips, the ability to turn on adaptive cruise
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Have you driven one lately? Your statement may be true of the cheapest models but their mid range and high end stuff drives very well. They have come a long way.
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I cast a rather skeptical eye at the partners they've chosen.
It doesn't matter if Kia and Hyundai are terrible at design. For the new cars, Apple will be doing the design. Kia and Hyundai will just be contract manufacturers.
Hyundai have a fair reputation at being terrible products. Kia on the other hand (the Hyundai elite brand) are actually decent vehicles with reliable features and safety. I imagine Apple has taken this into consideration when choosing them as a partner.
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Kia is positioned below Hyundai. Their premium brand is Genesis. Hyundai's reputation has improved a lot over the years - they're getting to the point where their reliability is close to Toyota, and they're cheaper to service.
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Where the hell do you get that? KIA was always their cheaper brand, and I can remember when they were such crap that our local dealership had literal buy one get one deals on KIAs (for a $8999 Rio specifically). That's $4500 for a brand new car in ~ 2001.
They were also dead last among major manufacturer's for quality up until the early 2010s.
But by 2016/2017 vehicle year KIA and Hyundai have been consistently rated #1 / #2 in almost every reliability metric by most major publications (I won't google for yo
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It's not just that, Kia and Hyundai have a known reputation as being terribly inefficient ran businesses. The man hours/costs needed to build a single car are reportedly more than the US or Japan.
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They know how to make luxury cars. I suspect Apple will approach this with their typical arrogance and doom the project. Unlike the small fries Apple usually bullies around and stabs in the back, Hyundai is huge and a major computer component supplier so it'll be interesting how this works out.
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I have to say I owned a 2002 Elantra GT for quite a lot of years. Ultimately, it died sooner than a Honda or Toyota would have, but as far as design, it was brilliant. The seats were outrageously comfortable, though they didn't look like much (and I'm over 6'2"). Every control and gauge was located exactly where the driver would want it. It was quite fast for a five-speed stick with a small engine, and handled very well. It had cruise control, which isn't terribly common in standard autos. And with the
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It doesn't matter if Kia and Hyundai are terrible at design.
Who says Kia is terrible at design? They have the designer that created the Audi TT series.
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Seriously. The Optima and Sportage are among the nicest looking cars in their class.
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The Hyundai Kona and Kia e-Niro are two of the best designed EVs out there. Great use of space, decent materials and build quality, comfortable, good to drive, and very quiet. The e-Niro in particular is very refined.
Maybe they have image problems and the fact that they sell some of the cheapest cars on the market in high volume probably means that many people's experience of them is the budget models, but if you can get past the badge they make some excellent cars.
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A company looking to get into offering their own cars would probably NOT be enticed by a "straight-six overhead twincam, 3 liters" new technology nor would they be advised to look for partners who feel the need to develop entirely new gasoline engines of any kind.
Apple isn't looking for a company that can lend brand recognition, that's their domain. Apple would need a partner with a leading EV platform which Hyundai has. Does Mazda? Does a new straight 6 get Mazda there?
Hyundai's new Genesis products woul
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A company looking to get into offering their own cars would probably NOT be enticed by a "straight-six overhead twincam, 3 liters"
Indeed. That's like Henry Ford being interested in a horse buggy company that developed a new whip.
Re: I'll wait for Mazda. (Score:1)
Lol, Apple being Henry Ford now already ...?
Next up: Apple fans Apple invented the car.
Just like they "invented" the smartphone.
(All they did over Nokia Series 60, was to add the single most annoying "feature" ever: A touch screen. And then they took everything else that was standard away.)
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Lol, Apple being Henry Ford now already ...?
Next up: Apple fans Apple invented the car.
Just like they "invented" the smartphone.
(All they did over Nokia Series 60, was to add the single most annoying "feature" ever: A touch screen. And then they took everything else that was standard away.)
A bit of minimizing going on here wouldn't you agree? Did people buy them because they suck? I grew up in the 80's and 90's, at the time of release the iPhone did something that we all knew was possible at the time, they were the only ones that had the balls to make happen. They now reap the reward.
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They're car manufacturers that make cars for people who just want to go around. They're decent cars (unlike Hyundai in the 80s), below Japanese in quality, but still quite good vehicles, especially compared to what's happening in Detroit.
Go FCA or whatever you're called, where design de
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The Koreans also have the best powertrain warranty in the business. That speaks of confidence, and even if it's misplaced, knowing you'll be able to get a new transmission if yours asplode is highly valuable. As in, worth thousands of dollars. A transmission swap at a dealer is anywhere from $3000 on up to... well, probably infinite, but easily up to $8000 or so in the real world.
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Re: I'll wait for Mazda. (Score:3)
Gasoline ... SUV ...
Are you a soccer mom from the 80s, mate?
SUVs ae the worst common denominator of all cars. There is literally not a single good thing about them. (No, they are actually less safe than a small car, let alone a real car.)
And while I get rejecting stupid non-replacable batteries (I think it should be a crime with a prison sentence), gasoline clearly is not the ideal type of engine in any case. At least go fuel cell and synthetic recycled gasoline or methane or hydrogen or something if the on
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SUVs ae the worst common denominator of all cars. There is literally not a single good thing about them.
They make ignorant people feel important. That's they key in this day and age.
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Speaking of two seaters, that is actually the big market to crack. The two seater roadster, electric enable much better design possibilities in terms of roadsters, city traffic and country cruise far more readily design achieve able, very efficient, very comfortable. The other design will be the Kombi class vehicle, your private room on wheels, when not being driven, there is a way to squeeze in all the features, wanted even toilet, shower, kitchenette, standing room even, bed and entertainment (taking it a
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Mazda's built a straight-six overhead twincam, 3 liters, and will be driving a new generation of RWD
Sounds like they went the Toyota route and started by from BMW. A 3.0 liter straight-six twincam engine has been a BMW staple for a while (well, since they upped the 2.5 liter straight-six twincams to 3.0 liter with the E40s).
I'd take a Z4 over a Mazda any day. . .unless it's a Mazda with a Wankel. Those are fun and just a cool engine. Unfortunately, they are started to get old and it's hard to find one that hasn't been treated like crap.
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Mazda's built a straight-six overhead twincam, 3 liters, and will be driving a new generation of RWD
Sounds like they went the Toyota route and started by from BMW. A 3.0 liter straight-six twincam engine has been a BMW staple for a while (well, since they upped the 2.5 liter straight-six twincams to 3.0 liter with the E40s).
I'd take a Z4 over a Mazda any day. . .unless it's a Mazda with a Wankel. Those are fun and just a cool engine. Unfortunately, they are started to get old and it's hard to find one that hasn't been treated like crap.
Yes the Z4 is a bit pricier though, no? Mazda makes the poor mans sports car. And they do an admirable job.
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Yes the Z4 is a bit pricier though, no? Mazda makes the poor mans sports car. And they do an admirable job.
If you buy brand new, yes. If you buy used, then not really. Miatas hold their value really well while BMWs plummet in value quickly after getting some miles on them. A lot of people are afraid to buy used BMWs because of their reputation for being expensive to repair, so you can snag them at pretty cheap prices.
Z4s probably maintain their value better than most other BMWs, but there's still a ton of them out there and they're not daily drivers so I imagine they're not that bad. The m-series BMWs are the on
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If you buy brand new, yes. If you buy used, then not really. Miatas hold their value really well while BMWs plummet in value quickly after getting some miles on them. A lot of people are afraid to buy used BMWs because of their reputation for being expensive to repair, so you can snag them at pretty cheap prices.
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Miatas are a great car and have loyal flowing. They're good looking, affordable, reliable, fun to drive and can be modded to make them go fast. Not surprising they hold their value.
In many ways they're the modern version of the original RX7 - a less expensive alternative to a Porsche or other sports car so people can actually afford to own one.
They're also an inexpensive way (if there is such a thing as inexpensive racing) to get into racing. I had a coworker who drove hers on the track and street.
If on
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I gotta admit, I'm intrigued with the new 2.5L Turbo. Stick that in an MX-5...
RIP car analogies (Score:2)
Every time Apple does something a bit draconian (banning apps, removing/altering iOS functionality, forcibly turning down your volume [twitter.com], taking an anti-third-party repairs stance, not allowing third party app stores, etc.), there's always an appropriate car analogy for why what they're doing totally sucks.
I'm gonna miss those days.
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We'll just have to use iPhone and Mac analogies.
Tesla did not originate car manufacturing (Score:3, Insightful)
"If you need an example of how difficult it is to build cars, take a look at Tesla's relatively short history in the business."
What an embarrassing comment. This is a lesson TESLA needs to learn, not "you". Tesla is the one who refused to hire industry professionals because they were so arrogant.
No one needs to look at Tesla as an example of how "difficult it is to build cars", they need to look at Tesla as an example of a car company who refuses to learn how to build good cars.
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"If you need an example of how difficult it is to build cars, take a look at Tesla's relatively short history in the business."
What an embarrassing comment. This is a lesson TESLA needs to learn, not "you". Tesla is the one who refused to hire industry professionals because they were so arrogant. No one needs to look at Tesla as an example of how "difficult it is to build cars", they need to look at Tesla as an example of a car company who refuses to learn how to build good cars.
That must be why their product is so shitty and hardly sells, barely competing in the market, right?
Look, I'm no fanboi here (no cars, no stock), but we need to just stop comparing what Tesla set out to do and did, with anyone else. Until you're prepared to bring forth a 100% electric product with supercar performance, it's no comparison. Period. When the Roadster first came out, everyone else had a glorified golf cart by comparison. And yes, admittedly the price point makes it a silly comparison too. L
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Why should we stop caring about quality?
In essence, this is the hot/crazy scale: how much trouble are you willing to put up with (manufacturing quality issues) to get the one feature you desire (long-range EV)? Tesla fans have a high crazy/hot tolerance. Doesn't mean we all should.
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Why should we stop caring about quality? In essence, this is the hot/crazy scale: how much trouble are you willing to put up with (manufacturing quality issues) to get the one feature you desire (long-range EV)? Tesla fans have a high crazy/hot tolerance. Doesn't mean we all should.
If all Tesla cared about was "long-range" EV, they would have shoved an extra-large battery underneath a Fugly bulky design about a decade ago.
Obviously that wasn't their only concern. They screwed up overlooking the obvious stuff. Like body panels that get dented often. And fitting.
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"If you need an example of how difficult it is to build cars, take a look at Tesla's relatively short history in the business."
What an embarrassing comment. This is a lesson TESLA needs to learn, not "you". Tesla is the one who refused to hire industry professionals because they were so arrogant. No one needs to look at Tesla as an example of how "difficult it is to build cars", they need to look at Tesla as an example of a car company who refuses to learn how to build good cars.
Yes, that is what Tesla needs to learn as well as how to build and sell enough to have a chance at being a viable company. Tesla has had 7 profitable quarters in the 5 years they have been in business; and have lost more money than they made. A good bit of their profit came from the sale of regulatory credits to other automakers that buy them to hit emissions standards. Last quarter Tesla made a $104 million and sold $428 million in regulatory credits; Tesla has made billions off of regulatory credits; t
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they need to look at Tesla as an example of a car company who refuses to learn how to build good cars.
So by refusing to learn how to build good cars they've changed the industry, have a backorder list that will take years to clear, have the best safety rating of any car on the market, are years ahead of the competition in EVs, have a shareprice larger than a multinational auto major, and their CEO became the richest person in the world?
Sorry what "lesson" does Tesla need to learn again? Shit man I'm going to go out and start a company which refused to learn how to build good cars. It sounds amazing.
Insanely Lame (Score:3)
I told a buddy of mine that I expected Apple might buy BMW ( $50.38B ) or VW ($98B) to keep up their premium brand image.
What's the Venn diagram of Kia and iPhone users? Kia and Tracfone yes, but not iPhone. There is nothing wrong with either Kia nor Tracfone, but the market perception is what Apple is all about.
Re: Insanely Lame (Score:2)
Buy...? Mate, those companies would literally rather go bankrupt than sell themselves. Especially BMW.
It's a matter of personal pride.
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Premium car brands == expensive car brands and expensive services and generally bad quality. Probably above Detroit, but below even Korea.
BMWs, Mercedes, VWs are all prone to various problems and wh
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Kia has the best EV technology though.
They have excellent drivetrains and have figured out how to make very efficient cars in various shapes and sizes, something that for example Tesla is still struggling with. They also have the best battery tech. Low cost, decent charge rates, and lifetime warranties.
Anyway in the car industry this is normal. Lots of premium cars feature the same parts as more affordable ones, and vice-versa. Buyers don't seem to care.
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I told a buddy of mine that I expected Apple might buy BMW ( $50.38B ) or VW ($98B) to keep up their premium brand image.
There are several problems with Apple's buying an existing manufacturer, even if one would be open to a purchase:
1. They'd inherit a huge infrastructure of factories, employees, supply chains all dedicated primarily to ICE vehicles. Apple wants to build an EV, but couldn't just shutdown ICE production, yet ICE production isn't exactly in Apple's desire to be viewed as green.
2. A car manufacturer would no doubt command a hefty premium if they were to sell, and Apple can probably get better returns using tha
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Apple will define the design and quality standards, and Kia will build to them. As long as Apple is willing to pay what it costs Kia can build the cars; and they won't be sold under the Kia badge but by Apple.
All that is true but the car will still essentially wind up being a Kia if it's built by Kia. Why? Because it will have to be built with whatever technologies Kia is already able to use in mass production, and it will be built with parts from Kia's suppliers. Each manufacturer is capable of reliably and repeatably making only certain shapes out of certain materials, and any vehicle Kia makes is going to be made out of those shapes. They can only shape steel at x radius, with y features; they only can use x
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Not necessarily. Apple has deep pockets and can license technologies that it feels are more compatible with the manufacture of their car. Working with Hyundai/Kia allows them to abstract themselves from the manufacturing process but still assist their partner with design or technology, an area where Apple has excelled in the past. If the partnership proves to be extremely profitable, I can only imagine that both companies would be served by continuing the partnership.
Now, back in 2016 I was still doing thi
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I think Kia is completely competent as an automaker, but that doesn't speak to what I was saying at all. Car companies generally only push design a little bit in every generation based on what they have done, and what they in turn think they can do based on that. There are occasional leaps forward (like BMW with the i3) but in general they avoid such potentially costly changes.
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All that is true but the car will still essentially wind up being a Kia if it's built by Kia. Why? Because it will have to be built with whatever technologies Kia is already able to use in mass production, and it will be built with parts from Kia's suppliers. Each manufacturer is capable of reliably and repeatably making only certain shapes out of certain materials, and any vehicle Kia makes is going to be made out of those shapes. They can only shape steel at x radius, with y features; they only can use x bonding technologies with y materials, etc. They might push that a bit for Apple, but they can only push it so far.
That depends on how much Apple wants to invest in developing the technology to manufacture the car as well as put in the car. Apple already provides contract manufacturers with Apple specific manufacturing equipment and have invested a lot of money in robotics, etc. that can be adapted for car manufacturing. It all depends on how much Apple is willing to invest in manufacturing infrastructure. If Apple wants to build dashboards out of unobtanium they certainly have the cash and talent to find a way to ma
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Maybe they're targeting the lucrative, "blew all my money on a new Mac so now I can only afford a Kia", market?
Kia?? KIA?? (Score:2)
Weren't you able to find a crappier car brand? Like Ssanyong, or the same platform as the famous Yugo Nowhere?
I take it, Tesla, Mercedes, BMW, etc, and all famous Italian brands rejected you ...?
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Haha, have you actually owned a Ssangyong? They're tough and reliable. Possibly a better choice than Toyota if you want a ute and the Hilux is more than you want to pay for.
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Kia ? (Score:1)
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