Apple Took Three Years to Cut Ties With Supplier That Used Underage Labor (theinformation.com) 83
An anonymous reader shares a report [the story is behind a paywall; alternative source]: Seven years ago, Apple made a staggering discovery: Among the employees at a factory in China that made most of the computer ports used in its MacBooks were two 15-year-olds. Apple told the manufacturer, Suyin Electronics, that it wouldn't get any new business until it improved employee screening to ensure no more people under 16 years of age got hired. Suyin pledged to do so, but an audit by Apple three months later found three more underage workers, including a 14-year-old. Apple, which has promised to ban suppliers that repeatedly use underage workers, stopped giving Suyin new business because of the violations. But it took Apple more than three years to fully cut its ties with Suyin, which continued to make HDMI, USB and other ports for older MacBooks under previous contracts. A person close to Suyin, which is headquartered in Taiwan, said that the company hadn't intentionally hired underage workers and that it had passed Apple's audits in later years.
Apple no longer does business with Suyin. But the previously unreported episode, drawn from documents reviewed by The Information and interviews with people who have direct knowledge of Apple's dealings with Suyin, is a stark example of the dilemmas Apple faces in fulfilling its pledges to put workers first and not use manufacturers that consistently violate labor laws. And it demonstrates the fine line Apple has to walk in balancing the need to maximize profits with the expectation that it will prioritize good working conditions for its own employees and its suppliers'. [...] In interviews, 10 former members of Apple's supplier responsibility team -- the unit in charge of monitoring manufacturing partners for violations of labor, environmental and safety rules -- claimed that Apple avoided or delayed cutting ties with offenders when doing so would hurt its business. For example, the former team members said, Apple continued working with some suppliers that refused to implement safety suggestions or that consistently violated labor laws.
Apple no longer does business with Suyin. But the previously unreported episode, drawn from documents reviewed by The Information and interviews with people who have direct knowledge of Apple's dealings with Suyin, is a stark example of the dilemmas Apple faces in fulfilling its pledges to put workers first and not use manufacturers that consistently violate labor laws. And it demonstrates the fine line Apple has to walk in balancing the need to maximize profits with the expectation that it will prioritize good working conditions for its own employees and its suppliers'. [...] In interviews, 10 former members of Apple's supplier responsibility team -- the unit in charge of monitoring manufacturing partners for violations of labor, environmental and safety rules -- claimed that Apple avoided or delayed cutting ties with offenders when doing so would hurt its business. For example, the former team members said, Apple continued working with some suppliers that refused to implement safety suggestions or that consistently violated labor laws.
Standard economic theory is being applied (Score:1)
*What the market will bear. Just a variation of the riot index [ssrn.com].
But IDF is the most ethical armed force! (Score:2)
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That's why I buy Samsung - corruption, bribery, child labour, forced labour, fake reviews, industrial espionage, it's all good. Not like that nasty Apple....
Re: But IDF is the most ethical armed force! (Score:2)
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You are either new to slashdot (this has been covered multiple times before) or have a very poor short term memory. Here is a link to a article on the latest (just the latest, mind you) bribery and corruption scandal: https://www.straitstimes.com/a... [straitstimes.com].
Re: But IDF is the most ethical armed force! (Score:2)
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One of us did, and it wasn't you. Or are you trying to imply that it isn't the latest Samsung bribery and corruption scandal?
Re: But IDF is the most ethical armed force! (Score:2)
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You are so childish, I'm now wondering how you got an ID that is quite this old. I quoted a whole list of Sumsung issues - corruption, bribery, etc. You challenged me to provide a link, but when I did you derided my link as it wasn't specifically what you were after. Presumably because you lost track of the conversation, or because you were trying to change the goal posts. Don't worry, you'll get better at this as you get older and get a bit more practice at losing arguments.
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i'm posting AC and using a VPN because i was getting censored too much by pansies such as yourself with mod points who can't handle the truth.
Maybe if you all were actually against underage labor and not just raging against Apple it wouldn't just be a game of waiting until they're found out. (Oh and you'd do some good for the workers producing Android phones, too...)
Re: But IDF is the most ethical armed force! (Score:2)
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It's not about justice, but about the injustices you can still sleep on at night.
But why were those kids working? Is it necessary to support and feed their family? So is it possible that family lost a meal or two over this ethical superiority mentality?
Re:Standard economic theory is being applied (Score:4, Informative)
And yes, it is what the market will bear. In the US, as said, it is perfectly legal for a 14 or 15 year old to work up to full time. For example, if school lets out at 330, that will give the kid 6 hours of work for 30 hours. Saturday and Sunday is an 8 hour day that gives 16 more hours. In many states a 46 work week for a 14 year old is legal. The US economy depends on child labor, particularly for farming.
If there is a determined risk to the child, then that is a problem. For instance most delis will not hire children. You have to be 18 to be a coal miner. You have to be 18 to sell dildos.
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The kids are just getting a taste of the real "Apple Experience"....
i mean.... (Score:2, Troll)
if they were forced that changes everything but if not let the kids work!
Re:i mean.... (Score:5, Informative)
I had a job at 14.... if the kids made the choice on their own and werent forced (slavery) whats the problem?
They are sorta forced. In China, students do industrial or agricultural internships. They don't really have a choice.
But there are several problems with this situation. It is odd for kids to be doing internships as young as 14, and it is a violation of Chinese law. The minimum age for interns is 16, with exceptions for family businesses and special situations such as child actors.
Also, Apple promised to clean up and audit their supply chains. So they are breaking their own promise.
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Those kids have it easy, I worked as a bricklayers labourer during my school holidays, not really a choice either. Capitalism and being born in a poor family, you don't choose to work, capitalism simply fucks your over from the earliest age forcing you to and then blames China, like what the fuck.
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Also, Apple promised to clean up and audit their supply chains. So they are breaking their own promise.
They found reportedly two underage employees, and then they audited the place and found more. They did exactly what they promised. Did you expect them to promise to audit and find nothing?
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Re: i mean.... (Score:4, Insightful)
In the past, Apple has recorded cases, and the companies have in their contract that they have to pay for the kids to go back to school, so itâ(TM)s not a money maker for them. (Thatâ(TM)s important for "historic" cases where someone was hired at 15 and they found out when the kid was 16)
Apple has in the past decided case by case whether some kids slipped through, or whether a company deliberately hired underage workers, and has cancelled some contracts immediately.
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Except for shitposting anonymously, of course. While hating your boss, and your life, and the working conditions capitalism has forced on you, but wanting soooo badly for "those city dwelling commie bastards" to be wrong that you'll suck up that shit and smile. Yeah, it's all the fault of those commies. Capitalism is perfect, but we hate those "coastal elites" of course! And Bill Gates. And George Soros, who made all his money being an ultra-capitalist fund manager. But Yeah! Capitalism is perfect and some
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Cool story bro. Did your job have you working 12 hour shifts in a factory? You think these kids stop by the Apple Widget factory after school to make a few bucks?
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Did your job have you working 12 hour shifts in a factory?
TFA did not say that any of these kids were working long hours.
Under Chinese law, it is illegal for students to work overtime.
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Then again, it's also illegal for them to hire people under 16 years old, but that happened.
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no it didnt
if that is the case clarly i agree its wrong and said as much
Sometimes people have to work (Score:4, Insightful)
My wife left home and went to work as a nanny at age 14. So did one of my aunts. Sometimes people live in places where they have to work to eat, like it or not. So yeah, I have a really mixed set of reactions to cases like this because the issue is a lot more nuanced than a lot of pampered activists want to make it out to be.
No, I don't use Apple products.
Re: Sometimes people have to work (Score:2, Informative)
But it's still more likely that Apple is aware of what's going on and simply choosing to turn a blind eye in order to maintain a cheap supply chain.
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What was the transition like when candles went from tallow to parafin?
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Sometimes people live in places where they have to work to eat, like it or not.
Child labor is a vicious cycle. Kids are pulled out of school to work, and never get the education and training to make a decent living. So they put their own kids to work early.
An obvious solution is to break the cycle by banning child labor and truancy.
Employing workers under 16 years old is illegal in China.
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The legal definition of what constitutes a child is often at odds with common sense though.
Finland is often presented as a shining example of education, yet you can be done with compulsory education at 15 and start your "child" labour. I think they really are an example and most of the west has taken compulsory education a few years too far.
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In America, the federal minimum for normal employment is 14.
Most states have stricter limits.
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I appreciate your candour, but only you may need them to survive, but they don't actually need you for them to survive. They make enough money to hire adults and to feed children if they wanted to. If they did they would even market it as PR and try to profit from it. Only they chose not to and so they leave young people thinking they had to work in order to survive, and this what's so bad about it.
Apple's net income for this year is about $57 billion. You tell me how many kids one could feed in a year usin
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Spoken like someone who doesn't understand poverty and homelessness. If the parents can't bring in enough money to house, clothe and feed everyone do the kids go to work or do they make a collective decision to live on the street? Or do the parents put the kids into potentially abusive social services care, never to see them again?
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Apple did use child labour. Don't even dare to try to draw a line so you can claim innocence for Apple. The only thing you can claim is a lack of ethics on your part.
Understand that almost anything can be declare as a necessity once one crosses the ethical line. Without ethics can one explain how slavery is necessary to bring in the harvest so everyone can eat. Or when a woman turns one down and to keep the human race from going extinct how it is necessary to rape her. Or how human trafficking is necessary,
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If your citizens have a situation where they NEED children to go to work, you already have a problem. Allowing child labor is just sweeping that problem under the rug.
Ultimately, child labor lowers wages and so creates more situations where families need child labor.
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I admire your hope and faith in trying to educate JabrTheHut, but I doubt he understands. He is probably busy eating cake right now and waiting for the fireworks to start.
To the topic... The problem is worse. Apple is a rich company, which makes $57+ billion each year and for several years in a row now. That's not their revenue, it's their net income after they've paid their bills. Divide this by the average cost for raising a child in the US, which is about $13,000 per year and it is certainly not the chea
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I think your lack of imagination and experience is rather hindering your understanding. There is child poverty all over the world, and in a lot of western countries it is increasing, not decreasing. It can be stamped out easily enough in the western world - a UBI would solve it almost overnight - but then a lot of republicans and libertarians would start screeching about the horror of paying tax, or more accurately, refusing to continue to subsidise massive multinationals by allowing them to pay effectivel
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I think ...
Don't, you're not smart enough. When one has got little influence over what other countries are doing, then we take it out on our companies such as Apple and at the very least make them stop. And Apple, as slow as they are, are in fact working towards it. So all your excuses and pleas for understanding how child labour was necessary are the words of an ignorant arsehole who is willing to make excuses for big tech companies using child labour in foreign countries. Have a nice life you ugly turd. I'm done rea
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I see, you didn't understand my post. Still. I don't blame you, critical thinking is probably not something your country or culture values. I do wonder, do you even know what the minimum working age in your country is? It's that low! Wow! Do you know why it's that low?
In the mean time, keep blaming Apple for not paying more taxes. Keep pretending it's nothing to do with your government's free pass to multinationals and absurd subsidising of the rich and the mega-rich. That way nothing will change bu
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Ultimately, child labor lowers wages and so creates more situations where families need child labor.
16 years and older is perfectly legal in China, 15 and younger isn't. If you are found hiring someone who is 15 years old, the company can say "oh, we didn't realised, he looked 16, he must have lied about this age.". If you are found hiring someone who is 15 years old, and NOT paying them the same money as a 16 year old because of their age, that excuse totally collapses and you get fully hit by the law. So companies CANNOT save money by hiring 15 year olds.
In the case of Apple, suppliers must sign a co
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It's more complicated than that as anything economic is. The person I was replying to was attempting to justify child labor in general. The thing is, you hire 15 year olds and 14 year olds, you may well pay them the same as 16 year olds, but you pay the lot of them less based on supply and demand. Child labor increases the labor supply.
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The summary mentioned five workers who were underage. How many total workers are there? If it is a handful of younger people passing themselves off as being old enough to work then the situation is being blown out of proportion. Are a large number of the remaining works also underage. Is this being done intentionally by the company or the worker?
Re:Sometimes people have to organize (Score:3)
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No, I don't use Apple products.
It's not an 'Apple' problem, that's just the trigger that gets the article posted on Slashdot. You likely have unethically built products in your house right now.
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Did Apple promise to immediately cut ties, or did they promise to divest themselves of such suppliers? Apple does long-term contracts to lock in supply. They can't just break contracts willy-nilly when something like this happens. There's a process.
Buy the Suppliers (Score:2)
If Apple really wants control, then they should buy their suppliers. Otherwise there will always be problems like this. If you want to avoid child/slave/prison labor, and you have suppliers in a country known for such practices, you have to expect to have problems. Of course, any good supply chain management program will have alternate sources for every critical part, preferably in different countries, but the alternate suppliers are just as likely to have the same violations.
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Re: Open Secret (Score:2)
Apple took 3 years (Score:2)
FTFY.
They just waited until they grew up (Score:4, Interesting)
I started at 14 too (Score:4, Interesting)
I started working (as a computer technician) at that age too. USSR law explicitly allowed it — with the work-week being 32 hours for youth 14-16 old.
When I turned 16, the work-week expanded (to 36 hours), and I had to work longer for the same pay. (I didn't stay there 'till 18 — when the work-week would've become 40 hours.)
This personal tidbit is here to show, that there is nothing automatically wrong with 14 year-olds joining the workforce — I got to work with computers in the 1980-ies, when most of my peers haven't even seen one.
Maybe, the kids in TFA are really ridden to death with a dull job, but there is no mention of it — the mere fact of a child going to work at 14 scares the karens. But great job, whistle-blowers. What, in your opinion, are these youngsters going to do now? Go back to school, because the factory will no longer employ them? Ha-ha...
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100% agree. My grandmother joined the work force at 15, dropped out of high school to help support her family after her father died. It was a necessity for the family to survive. I suspect may have worked under similar circumstances; it must happen elsewhere.
The irony here is the US, while claiming to be a high and mighty tolerable and PC society, is actually intolerant of other cultures where this is apparently acceptable. Yet those kids may have had food taken out of their mouths as a result of this.
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I got to work with computers in the 1980-ies, when most of my peers haven't even seen one.
You sure they weren't just shoddy bomb casings full of used pinball machine parts??
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Yes, I am sure. I worked with Iskra-226 [wang2200.org] (built-in Basic!) and ES [wikipedia.org] — programming in Rexx [wikipedia.org].
Later the Soviet clones of the PC appeared, with Borland's PASCAL...
Staggering discovery? (Score:2)
Even in some developed western countries 15 year olds are allowed to work full time.
It doesn't take a whole lot to stagger some people I guess.
Put those little bastards to work (Score:2)
The Victorian England fantasy about children innocently frolicking in the world until they're adults is just that: a fantasy, at least for the vast majority of people. School and childhood are, for many people, a waste of time.
Put those little bastards to work so they can learn something real.
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Unemployed kids (Score:2)
Three years later ... (Score:2)
Isn't this is to be expected? (Score:1)
Sounds about right (Score:2)
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This feels like a non-story. Does the author really expect Apple, with its millions of units manufactured per year, to be able to instantly drop a vendor and pivot to a new one?
You could read the reports on Apple's website. There have been cases where suppliers _systematically_ hired people under 16 and contracts with two suppliers were cancelled _immediately_. In a case where two 15 year olds out of 100s were found, most likely someone wanted to make some money before their 16th birthday and lied about their birthdate.
15 (Score:2)
My (Briton) first job was when I was 15. Just saying...
What laws? (Score:2)
I wonder what laws it is they're talking about?
More Apple Bullshit (Score:2)
They promise to put workers first. Yet they continue to manufacture in China.
Workers rights and China are mutually exclusive.
"demonstrates the fine line Apple has to walk" (Score:2)
Get stuffed. There is no fine line. They break the rules, Apple severs ties. They only break the rules because they know they can.
*demonstrates that Apple enables bad behavior by putting profits first* Fixed it for you.
The American dream. (Score:2)
Of course.. (Score:1)
In other news... (Score:2)
"Apple Took Three Years to Cut Ties With Supplier That Used Underage Labor"
In a last-minute bid to avoid even the tiniest financial loss, Apple executives argued that given the amount of time that has passed, most of those kids are now old enough to have a job.