Apple Lobbied US Congress on Uighur Slave Labor Bills (theinformation.com) 76
Apple paid an outside firm to lobby Congress on legislation targeting U.S. companies that do business in areas of China that may use slave labor. From a report: Congressional disclosure reports show that Fierce Government Relations lobbied for Apple on the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act and other bills aimed at pressuring U.S. companies to ensure that their supply chains do not depend on companies that use slave labor, particularly from a region called Xinjiang where many Uighur live. Apple has previously been criticized for working conditions within its supply chain. More recently, activists have urged Apple, other U.S. companies to cut their ties to suppliers that allegedly use forced labor from the Uighurs, a Muslim minority in China. The Chinese government has been accused of forcing Uyghur's to work under oppressive working conditions and other human rights violations.
Word salad summary (Score:4, Insightful)
What was Apple lobbying for exactly? What does the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act purport to do?
I wanted to RTFA but it requires putting in an email address and who knows what else - for me that might as well be a paywall, so I didn't pursue it. It would be nice if the summary gave some relevant details in coherent English.
Re:Word salad summary (Score:5, Informative)
It's just that you aren't paying attention. The "Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act" (if you had not been too lazy to Google it, rather than spending your time typing it to bash the summary) is summarized at congress.gov as follows:
This bill imposes various restrictions related to China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous region, including by prohibiting certain imports from Xinjiang and imposing sanctions on those responsible for human rights violations there.
Goods manufactured or produced in Xinjiang shall not be entitled to entry into the United States unless Customs and Border Protection (1) determines that the goods were not manufactured by convict labor, forced labor, or indentured labor under penal sanctions; and (2) reports such a determination to Congress and to the public.
The President shall periodically report to Congress a list of foreign entities and individuals knowingly facilitating (1) the forced labor of Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and members of other Muslim minority groups in Xinjiang; and (2) efforts to contravene U.S. laws regarding the importation of forced labor goods from Xinjiang. The President shall impose property-blocking sanctions on the listed individuals and entities and impose visa-blocking sanctions on the listed individuals.
Securities issuers required to file annual or quarterly reports with the Securities Exchange Commission shall disclose in such reports certain information related to Xinjiang, including instances where the issuer knowingly (1) engaged in activities with an entity helping to create mass surveillance systems in Xinjiang, (2) engaged in activities with an entity running or building detention facilities for Muslim minority groups in Xinjiang, or (3) conducted a transaction with any person sanctioned for the detention or abuse of Uyghurs or other Muslim minority groups in Xinjiang. After being notified of such a disclosure, the President shall determine whether to investigate if sanctions or criminal charges are warranted.
The Forced Labor Enforcement Task Force and the Department of State shall report to Congress strategies to address forced labor in Xinjiang.
The plight of the Uyghurs is fairly well known at this time, unless you're willfully not paying attention.
Re: Word salad summary (Score:1)
...unless you're willfully not paying attention.
The loaded word that revealed what the shill was attempting was "exactly." Nothing's exact.
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You're the one not paying attention. The summary gives no indication of whether Apple is reported to be supporting or opposing.
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It doesn't really say. My wild guess is that Apple actually lobbied for increased scrutiny.
Their huge margins usually allow them to be first in cleaning up their supply chain, they have least to fear from laws like this. So it's more likely they want to force that burden on competitor, that could be more helpful to Apple than just using their clean supply chain for marketing.
Re:Word salad summary (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly this.
While rumors circulated earlier this year that one of Apple's suppliers used slave/forced labor, the truth ended up being mundane: after reporting on slave labor at a handful of companies near the Uighur internment camps, the authors of the article implied that other companies might be doing the same as well, then named and shamed several companies with ties to big brands who also happened to have a presence anywhere in the province, even though there was no indication or evidence of slave labor at those other companies (i.e. like suggesting that Disney might be engaging in sea turtle poaching because DisneyWorld is in Florida, which is also where illegal sea turtle poaching sometimes takes place). This particular supplier of Apple's has one factory in the province, is hundreds of miles away, has been independently audited multiple times—both before and after the report—and has never been found to be using forced labor. It's "guilt by association" in the loosest sense.
For my part, I too assumed that Apple would be lobbying for stronger regulation in this area. Ignoring the "they're supporting it because they believe in doing what's right" sort of belief some people have about Apple and these sorts of topics, there's an obvious business angle to why they'd almost certainly support this legislation: they're already engaging in best practices, so they have nothing to lose, whereas their lower-margin competitors who aren't as scrupulous will face increased costs and difficulties if this legislation passes, putting those competitors at a competitive disadvantage if they're forced to make these changes. That's a business win for Apple, plus it lets them win some PR points by taking the moral high ground.
Re:Word salad summary (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a lot of word gymnastics to "assume" Apple is actually trying to use their market position to do the right thing.
I would think that the counterfactual argument would be that Apple is highly dependent on China for its supply chain and as an important market, suppression of Uighur dissent is a high profile and sensitive domestic political issue within China, so ergo Apple is defending its interests by trying to subtly lobby against restrictions like this to curry favor with the Chinese as well as not imperil their own supply chain.
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That's a lot of word gymnastics to "assume" Apple is actually trying to use their market position to do the right thing.
I would think that the counterfactual argument would be that Apple is highly dependent on China for its supply chain and as an important market, suppression of Uighur dissent is a high profile and sensitive domestic political issue within China, so ergo Apple is defending its interests by trying to subtly lobby against restrictions like this to curry favor with the Chinese as well as not imperil their own supply chain.
It appears you misread him. He's implying Apple is not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, but because they believe it is advantageous to apply the same constraints on their low cost, low margin competitors that they likely already comply with. That it is morally consistent with the image they wish to project would be a bonus.
This is all speculation because it's not clear what Apple is lobbying for.
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Yup, he misread what I wrote, which seems rather difficult to do, given that I specifically said I wasn't talking about what he suggests I was talking about. Thanks for correcting him.
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That's a lot of word gymnastics to "assume" Apple is actually trying to use their market position to do the right thing.
As someone else has already pointed out to you, you clearly misread my last paragraph, because I said nearly the exact opposite of what you apparently came away thinking. Also, three sentences is not nearly enough for "word gymnastics", yet that's all the time I spent on the topic of Apple's motives and the legislation.
As for your idea, you're talking about a notion that has almost no upside, but carries the risk of alienating the entire rest of the world. Currying favor with the Chinese is wholly unnecessa
Re: Word salad summary (Score:2)
TFA:
"Congressional disclosure reports show that Fierce Government Relations lobbied for Apple on the âoeUyghur Forced Labor Prevention Actâ and other bills aimed at pressuring U.S. companies to ensure that their supply chains do not depend on companies that use slave labor, particularly from a region called Xinjiang where many Uighurs live. It isnâ(TM)t clear if Apple lobbied against the bill."
Lobbying _for_ increased burdens on your competitors when you are already in compliance or can bette
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How much did China pay you for your post?
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How much did China pay you for your post?
Apparently you didn't read enough of my post to reach the part where I said that Apple likely supports the legislation that sanctions forced labor. Is it too much to ask that you read an entire post before responding to it? You don't even need to use both hands to count the number of sentences in my post...
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It doesn't really say. My wild guess is that Apple actually lobbied for increased scrutiny.
I did a quick search and found several articles about this - ALL OF WHICH state some variant "it is not clear what position Apple was lobbying for". Lazy on-line "journalism" at its best...
So, finding no evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume that Apple was lobbying for a provision requiring any identified Uyghur forced laborers to be replaced by green Orion Slave Girls.
Re: Word salad summary (Score:1)
Re: Word salad summary (Score:1)
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"I wanted to RTFA "
Sssss! Apostate!
You can't do that, not even as a cat.
Re: Word salad summary (Score:2)
Agreeed, the summary is a mess.
May Use Slave labor. (Score:1)
So Apple isn't lobbying the use of Slave Labor, but trying to get business done in areas where there are rumors on where it is happening.
Now I am not going to give Apple a free pass on this. However the question is, does Apple know that area has that reputation, or was it that these areas, that Apple never knew about was just giving them a good deal, to do business there, and Apple had no idea about such activity.
Also In terms of China, the United States Lately has been saying they Might be doing really ba
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It is amazing the mental gymnastics that people go through when apologizing for their favorite corporation and country. Let me break it down for the Slashdot people: The Chinese government IS BAD. They are doing BAD THINGS. We do not want China to take over the planet.
For fucks sake people.
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Wbo downmods this aside from a Chinese shill?
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Yeah, now go out there and complain to the Wally-World shoppers buying those Chinese goods and demand they pay more for American made goods. I'm sure they'll listen to you.
Re:May Use Slave labor. (Score:4, Insightful)
Upvote parent.
The fascist Chinese government is doing bad things to the Chinese people.
They build cheap stuff. We like buying cheap stuff. But that cheap stuff comes at a price, a price that the Chinese people pay.
(And NO, they're not communist. China is a VERY capitalist country, with worse income inequality than the US. The government is authoritarian and is currently practicing ethnic cleansing and running concentration camps for ethnic minorities, crimes against humanity. That's not communism, that's fascism.)
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You think they're capitalist? It's too bad we don't have a word for "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the CCP) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition".
Re: May Use Slave labor. (Score:2)
China is a capitalist utopia.
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China is a capitalist utopia.
China is a crony capitalist Utopia.
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This is making it tricky for any of us to really know what is really happening.
Not if you're paying attention. The oppression of the Uyghurs had been going on for years before the current administration started it's current round of China-bashing. If you think that a government that stoops to organ-harvesting isn't going to engage in a bit of slave labor on the side, I have a bridge in New York to sell you.
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If your factories have nets around the roofs to prevent works from leaping to their deaths then you just might be using slave labor.
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The attempted suicide rate is actually much lower in those factories than the national average from what I understand.
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If your factories have nets around the roofs to prevent works from leaping to their deaths then you just might be using slave labor.
If your factories have nets around the roofs to prevent works from leaping to their deaths then you just found a cheap way to prevent people from dying. You also most likely knew that some people would try to use that as propaganda against you, and you still thought that saving lives is more important.
For comparison: Golden Gate Bridge, San Francisco, California, USA. About 2000 deaths so far. Action taken: None.
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Improve working conditions to save lives or install nets? Hmmm what to choose....
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"However the question is, does Apple know that area has that reputation, or was it that these areas, that Apple never knew about was just giving them a good deal, to do business there, and Apple had no idea about such activity."
Are you seriously asking if Apple, one of the largest companies in the world, with huge public relations, government affairs, corporate counsel, and international business teams, knew something that the average person on the street could be expected to know?
Labor Camps (Score:2)
This is standard operating procedure for socialist countries going back as far as there have been socialist countries. If you are not sufficiently on board with the secularist progressive agenda of the state, you are "re-educated" via labor. Labor camps are/were prevalent in the USSR, in Cuba, in Vietnam, and in North Korea. China is no exception.
My father-in-law worked with someone in Poland whose father was sent to a camp in the USSR. His co-worker's father went to work one day and didn't come back. His f
Re:Labor Camps (Score:5, Informative)
You're confusing socialism with communism. Many other countries in the world are socialist and have much higher standards of living than the USA.
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Canada is a great example. It's been at the top spot for a few years now.
Socialism (Score:2)
Communism is a form of Socialism. In these societies, in particular, socialism is fully realized, with no private ownership of property, until these restrictions are inevitably relaxed as the command economy stagnates, or implodes.
The countries you are thinking of are mixed economies - mostly capitalist with some socialized sectors and high taxes.
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You're confusing socialism with communism. Many other countries in the world are socialist and have much higher standards of living than the USA.
Communism is a form of Socialism. Many of the economies I believe you are referring to have, mostly, capitalist economic systems, with some market sectors socialized.
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Socialism = Communism + Religion
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So Apple isn't lobbying the use of Slave Labor, but trying to get business done in areas where there are rumors on where it is happening.
They aren't rumors.
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One would think that apple would be interested in freeing themselves from suspicion of using forced labor by referring to their work with the The Forced Labor Enforcement Task Force and the Department of State, but apparently they'd rather we take their word on it. I think apple is approaching this from the wrong angle, dealing with companies where forced labor is an issue your own checks isn't going ton be trusted by everyone, you'd want to claim that you're also conforming to the strictest rules and scru
Lobbying for it? Against it? Or what? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Fierce Government Relations lobbied for Apple on the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act and other bills aimed at pressuring U.S. companies to ensure that their supply chains do not depend on companies that use slave labor"
This statement provides no useful information. How did they lobby for Apple on it?
New engraved disclosure coming on iPhones (Score:3)
Naturally the font will need to be smaller to fit all of that on the phone.
Fierce Government Relations (Score:2)
Interesting name for a lobbying company.
Big question (Score:3)
Did they lobby *FOR* or *AGAINST* using slave labor?
I tried to read the summary, and look for other sources. But could not find an answer.
They did some lobbying, but it would be helpful to learn it was in which direction.
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They could have lobbied for minor language changes for clarity. Who knows.
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They lobbied for the Spanish Inquisition - which nobody expected.
Squeeky clean Apple is not so squeeky clean... (Score:1)
I'd love to hear the rational for this...
It seems Apple is going more and more towards being just another evil corporation.
Why have we ever allowed this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would we allow anything to be shipped to this country that was made in a way that broke our laws?
We have environmental regulations so companies don't pollute and cause babies to be born without limbs. GOOD MOVE CONGRESS.
Then we give China favored-nation status, so companies can move their plants there and pollute enough to cause babies to be born without limbs. WTF CONGRESS
The left calls for a $15 minimum wage, but says nothing about the good made by slave labor and borderline slave labor being sold here. (To be fair, some have pushed back.)
I would like to see a law that would forbid the importation of ANY product that was produced in a way that could not have been produced right here. Pollution and work place abuse are not OK just because the victims speak another language.
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Anti globalism? (Score:3)
That was Bannon. Bannon's agenda got thrown out the back window along with the man himself three years ago.
Trump is not "anti-globalism" in any sense. Did you see that wack negotiation he attempted to make with the Chinese "president" to carve a hole in his tariff scheme specifically so that farmers in swing states could get a little more money? Did you notice that after it went down in flames he sent those same farmers a tax subsidy out of your pocket (and mine) and then claimed it came from China, like
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