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Mark Zuckerberg Said Apple Is Charging 'Monopoly Rents' With Its 'Stranglehold' On iPhones (buzzfeednews.com) 162

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg took a swing at Apple on Thursday, calling the iPhone maker's app store monopolistic and harmful to customers during a company-wide meeting. From a report: "[Apple has] this unique stranglehold as a gatekeeper on what gets on phones," Zuckerberg said to more than 50,000 employees via webcast. He added that the Cupertino, California-based company's app store "blocks innovation, blocks competition" and "allows Apple to charge monopoly rents." While the Facebook CEO was specifically answering a question about Apple blocking gaming-related apps, his comments came at a time where authorities are scrutinizing both Silicon Valley giants for antitrust behavior. [...] Zuckerberg's comments were another signal that there's no love lost in the long-contentious relationship between the leader of the social network and the $2 trillion electronic device maker. "That's innovation that could really improve people's lives," Zuckerberg said on Thursday. "And Apple's just balking at it."
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Mark Zuckerberg Said Apple Is Charging 'Monopoly Rents' With Its 'Stranglehold' On iPhones

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  • by DotComCTO ( 4529147 ) on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:53PM (#60450428)
    "Waaaaahhhh. Apple won't let me exploit private user data on iPhones anymore!
    • by dmay34 ( 6770232 )
      Uh, no. That's not the issue at all. Yes, Facebook still exploits user data through their Facebook app on iOS. This is about charging people money.
    • Mark Zuckerberg is actually hurting Epic. While I have some minor empathy for Epic's position against Apple and I think there's a solution that both parties could have agreed to without the courts, I have absolutely none at all for Facebook. When I read Zuck's complaints I think "good, go Apple".

      • While I have some minor empathy for Epic's position against Apple and I think there's a solution that both parties could have agreed to without the courts

        Epic is going to win.

        • by emc ( 19333 )

          If Epic does win, and it just might, it will be interesting to see what this does to the consoles. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony have been doing this for ages.

    • Let me know when mark lets me deep link and google search all of face book without being signed in.

    • I dunno, what I understood from Zuck is that he wants large tech companies that got too powerful to be broken up.

  • by jacks smirking reven ( 909048 ) on Friday August 28, 2020 @02:55PM (#60450436)

    The Zuck has a point, but it's a sticky situation. I think Apple should have every right to profit off it's ecosystem, they built it, they maintain it and it's very popular. On the other hand I do find it wrong that they feel able to take a cut of essentially any transaction that takes place on an iPhone almost. On the balance I think the issue is that percentage. 30% seems very excessive for what boils down to development and hosting, especially at the scale they are operating at. I would think with a cut closer to 5-10% this would have never become an issue but 1 out of every 3 dollars is going to make companies principally upset eventually.

    That said Zuckerberg can fuck right off and I hope Apples new privacy system starts ball rolling downhill on FB.

    • He doesn't really (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:28PM (#60450594)
      not so long as Android exists and hold the kind of market share it does. It won't fly in court.

      As for excessive, 30% is golden compared to the good old days of cell phones locked down by carrier. Try 40-60% and the SDK was $25,000. And you had to do that for every, single, carrier.

      Could Apple charge less? Hard to say. For smaller apps that don't sell well probably not. Microsoft dropped the indies because even at 30% they weren't making any money off them on XBox. They could do a multi-tired system (which is what Zuck really wants since it would make it harder for competitors while maybe even leaving him room for a cut) but that's not going to go over well.
      • not so long as Android exists and hold the kind of market share it does. It won't fly in court.

        You mean the Android in which customers also pay a 30% tax? If there is defacto collusion between two duopolies that's no better for consumers.

      • by vux984 ( 928602 )

        "As for excessive, 30% is golden compared to the good old days of cell phones locked down by carrier."

        The bad old cellphone days you talk about was basically a carrier duopoly; and now we've traded that for a os-vendor duopoly. That's not much progress of the free market.

        And remember, apps in the crappy old days of dealing the carriers weren't terribly lucrative. Mobile operating systems were

        "Could Apple charge less? Hard to say."

        It's not that hard. We force them to allow 3rd party stores onto the phone, an

        • the carriers put pressure on the cell phone companies and vice versa.

          And like I said, XBox literally couldn't make a profit selling Indie games with a 30% cut. This is a fact, and it's why they dropped them. They picked them back up because of fan backlash, but that doesn't mean they're profitable, just that they don't want to risk people buying PlayStations to get the indies.

          The support needed to keep these platforms running is expensive as hell. And yeah, Apple does make money off the hardware tha
    • 5% is payment processor territory, and 10% would just cover a seller that gains some other revenue stream for the privilege— practically a loss-leader. The floor for Apple’s cut is likely 15%, and at that point they should get some form of revenue from “free” ad-supported software, as there is a cost to maintaining app standards that should be recovered... and, yes, profit.

      Apple should have been smarter with their cut a couple years ago. It started out as a premium service, but it

      • 5% is payment processor territory, and 10% would just cover a seller that gains some other revenue stream for the privilege— practically a loss-leader. The floor for Apple’s cut is likely 15%,

        If Apple can't go lower, then they should allow alternate app stores on the devices, and alternate payment processors.

        Apple does not own your device.

    • by SkonkersBeDonkers ( 6780818 ) on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:35PM (#60450626)

      I think the thing that baffles me most is where on earth did anyone get the idea that 30% is "too high" other retail stores have markup that far exceeds that. Apple does not run the app store as a public service for developers. They run it to make some profit for themselves too (as well as subsidize all the untold numbers of free apps provided).

      Furthermore, it was actually Apple that got other digital platforms to lower their cut. Microsoft and Sony used to take 70% (and were also the only option for their platforms).

      Book, video and music publishers have been taking almost all the profits for decades and it was only the rise of Apple, Google and Amazon that enabled content creators to have a platform where they actually get to keep 70% of the sale price.

      And people are taking sides against Apple to support who exactly? Facebook, Spotify and Epic? Some of the most evil companies that exist today.

      • I think the thing that baffles me most is where on earth did anyone get the idea that 30% is "too high"

        The hosting costs are much cheaper than that, and the transaction fees are much smaller than that. For comparison, look at the fees on the Mac.

    • Apple charging a 30% cut of sales from the app store is abusive, but they probably could have gotten away with it forever and ever if not for charging a 30% cut of sales through the apps purchased from the app store.

    • The 30% doesn't even include hosting costs associated with the subscription. Companies like Spotify/Netflix/Amazon would end up paying a 30% payment processing fee. Whatever a CDN costs - to actually serve up the content - is on top of this.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Both have got far too much power to stifle potential competitors.

  • I'd appreciate less Buzzfeed on the front page here. I think they stalled a while back in their quest to be considered a respectable news outlet. No, creating a separate domain to separate the traditional Buzzfeeed fare and actual news was not enough.
  • when titans battle. Although Apple is more of a corporate face whereas FB is the face of Zuck.
  • OH BOY!

    I can't be the only one that loves to watch the infighting between the tech giants. Apple, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon and Google taking pot-shots at each other always seems so funny to me when ultimately they're all trying to do the same thing. Get all the information, get all the eyeballs, make all the money.

    Maybe we just stick all the CEOs into a steel cage match. Hell, I'd be willing to watch a PPV with Cook, Bezos, Zuckerberg, and the others going at it. I'd imagine there'd be some super pan

  • by Frederic54 ( 3788 ) on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:09PM (#60450510) Journal

    ads, he's talking about directed ads. This does not improve anything. I'm tired that if I search for a thing then in the following hours my FB or IG feed is full of this thing even if I don't need it...

    I just browse FB or IG about once a day because all my familty and relatives are on it and it's often the only way to have news/pics of them especially those who are far... else I would delete this damn FB, it's also full of covidiots.

    I also never had an Apple device in my life and could care less, but a thumb up for Apple to try to respect people privacy, and a thumb down for they $ appetite

  • That Apple tightened its privacy controls and Facebook is the loser in all this. Just at a time that Facebook / Zuckerberg happens to start whining about Apple.
  • But Mark, none of us can change that. You can. Facebook and its subsidiaries don't have to be in the Apple app store. Vote with your feet.
  • Yes, FaceBook thinks people are that stupid.

    No surprise, I guess.

  • If Facebook discontinued its iPhone app, and Netflix did, and so on, it would make the iPhone a much less attractive proposition for users and Apple would lose market share.

    Once Apple cries "Uncle!", then you turn your attention to Android. If the big app makers united to divide Apple and Google, they could have a lot of influence. It does mean a willingness to take on short-term or even medium-term pain.

  • by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot.worf@net> on Friday August 28, 2020 @03:30PM (#60450602)

    It's not about the 30%. Face it, it's Facebook.

    They already conceded that IOS14 will be a disaster for them because it's going to cut revenue in half from iPhone users as they can't slurp up your delicious user data.

    The problem is, you can't convince people of that. Nor can you convince them it's a bad idea since Apple will force consent.

    So instead you attack them by what they can do - the 30%. Facebook doesn't care about it - they have their own payment system in place and most people already use it. So the 30% means zilch to Facebook as few people even spend money using Apple on Facebook.

    But they DO understand money, and you can say "Apple is teh evilz for 30%!" constnatly and people understand taht.

    Because well, notice how Facebook doesn't go after Google for the same thing? The payment policies are the same - you h ave to use Google Pay on Android and Google takes 30%. But Android doesn't have all those revenue-hurting privacy protection.

    And Facebook knows this. They also know that iPhone users are VERY profitable for Facebook as they are users that advertisers want - the ones willing to spend money. And with iOS14, the writing is on the wall because Apple literally cut off Facebook's oxygen supply.

    No one complains about the 30%. Epic, Telegram, Facebook, etc. They don't care. They really care about the fact Apple has all this tracking information but refuse to share it.

    You can bet iOS 15 will pretty much lock everything down to the point where Facebook and Epic will complain that they can't get user data at all even though they got their wish and have their own app stores on iOS. Maybe even something like Firewall iP which was the main reason I jailbroke - it's an outgoing firewall. There will be apps that will auto-add every tracker on the planet to Apple's implementation and automatically block ALL tracking and phone-home traffic.

    Soon you'll find apps that beg you to turn on location services and to allow tracking because Big Bad Apple locks it away.

    • by dhaen ( 892570 )
      Interesting rant - but no mod points to give, sorry.
    • Yes!!!! Apple is NOT pleased that its devices are being abused by Google and FB to turn Apple customers into commodities for Google and FB. Apple is at war with FB and Google.

      https://payam.minoofar.com/202... [minoofar.com]
    • by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      This. I found it pretty funny that this article came out right when Zuck is trying to crap on Apple: https://arstechnica.com/tech-p... [arstechnica.com]

      iOS 14 privacy settings will tank ad targeting business, Facebook warns
      Facebook is worried that users won't opt in to tracking when given the choice.

      Facebook is warning developers that privacy changes in an upcoming iOS update will severely curtail its ability to track users' activity across the entire Internet and app ecosystem and prevent the social media platform from serving targeted ads to users inside other, non-Facebook apps on iPhones.

  • And that's why I bought an IBM compatible computer way back when I traded up the RadioShack Color Computer. Apple = Closed, expensive, stifling.
  • The problem is the same for all of these "Platforms"

    You should not be allowed to both host the marketplace (and charge rent to use it) while at the same time selling things on said marketplace. Full stop.

    30% cut is fine, as long as you are not opening yourself up to the possibility of undercutting your clients (people paying the 30% cut of sales to use the marketplace) by releasing cloned apps without the need to pay the 30% to yourself, or cloned products sold at a 30% discount, ect.

    This is the root cause

    • by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Friday August 28, 2020 @04:57PM (#60450908)
      The whole reason that I go Apple is because I WANT A GATEKEEPER. Literally, I simply don't want to spend the time necessary to monitor every little piece of software and network ping that comes and goes from my phone. I get that some people are entirely capable of doing that and enjoy it. But, it's not for me. I want a responsible, trusted gatekeeper to take care of the rifraff that so I can go about the other things in my life.

      As far as gatekeepers go it's pretty clear that APPLE > MICROSOFT > GOOGLE > FACEBOOK. I choose Apple. If they every stop gatekeeping their products, I'm not sure what I would do. I guess I could tolerate an Android with an absolutely minimal plain-jane install. What a drag, though.

      Effective gatekeeping is a valuable service.
  • Translation: Apple's privacy rules are preventing us from indiscriminately harvesting and selling user data.

    Better translation: waaaaa. WAAAAAAAAA there are rules that prevent me from taking a huge steaming dump on my neighbors lawn!

    I realize that maybe Apple needs to adjust things a bit in order to avoid strangling too many little players. But dammit, the constraints imposed by the App store is a big part of why my iPhone doesn't descend into the a steaming pile of malware, CPU-sucking crapware a
  • Make a products then talk about stuff. Just because you're a billion dollar ad company doesn't make you nearly the company that APPLE is. First of all I know no one that's loyal to ANY social media company/ platform. Eh, who cares!
  • STANDARD WALLED GARDEN (prison) REPLY FORM
    Rev. 0

    I see you are complaining about

    [X] Apple [] M$ [] other:_____

    You bought the device (un)knowingly

    [X] That the above selected company is lord of the realm
    [X] you should know by now corporations don't play fair
    [X] You decided to give up freedom for:
    [X] imagined security [X] to look hip [] because you just had to get that device specific app

    Furthermore

    [] You need to read the fine print
    [] You should check out web forums to see if the device i

  • Mark Zuckerberg is one of those people who just looks like he deserves a punch in the face.

    "Citizen, why did you assault Mr. Zuckerberg?"

    "Your Honour, just look at that smug little twerp and tell me you wouldn't like to smack the smirk right off his face."

    "I see what you mean. Case dismissed."

  • Apple should remove the Facebook app from their App Store solely because he said that and then Zucc will know how conservatives feel trying to post literally anything on Facebook.

Software production is assumed to be a line function, but it is run like a staff function. -- Paul Licker

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