Apple Advises Against MacBook Camera Covers Due To Display Cracking (appleinsider.com) 126
Apple, in a new support document, is warning users against closing their MacBook lids with a cover over the camera. From a report: Placing a cover, sticker or tape over a laptop camera is a practice adopted by some privacy- and security-conscious individuals to protect against webcam hijacking. Now, however, Apple is explicitly advising against the tactic. In a support document published earlier in July, Apple urges users not to close their MacBook Pro or MacBook Air lids if there's a camera cover installed on it. "If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances," Apple notes. The support document also outlines some of the privacy and security functions of the camera, including the green indicator light that lets users know when the camera is active and the camera permission settings introduced in macOS Mojave.
Ok so (Score:5, Informative)
Apple this is a feature you should build in. Yes, yes you stand behind your software protection. I still want a hardware cover.
Re:Ok so (Score:5, Funny)
Introducing the iClose, $89.99.
Re:Ok so (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ok so (Score:4, Funny)
Most people I know just trim down a Post-it note small enough to cover the camera
Commandment 8 from the book of Jobs: "Thou shall not desecrate religious symbols of the one true faith by applying a sticky substance to its surface. "
Those people are going to hell where they will be forced to reboot bluescreened Windows PCs for all eternity.
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Most people I know just trim down a Post-it note small enough to cover the camera. Easy to remove, doesn't leave gunk on the lens, and is thin enough it doesn't interfere with closing the lid.
Apple is specifically saying that it does interfere with closing. Perhaps not in a way that's obvious to the user, but in a way that may cause the display to crack over time.
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He mods himself up with his sock puppets. For him, problem solved apparently!
Re:Ok so (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Ok so (Score:3)
I agree, And arguably a sort of easily accesable modular design to be able to remove the controllers for applications where that hardware is not nesseccary.
For example I havr zero need for a mic in my laptop. I use headsets anyways.
Re: Ok so (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless I can inpect the hardware switch, I don't trust it.
Seen too many physical "hardware" switches, that turned out to just control a signal to the firmware, which did the actual turning off, and could be overriden from software.
Re: Ok so (Score:4, Insightful)
this makes sense, but it's inapplicable for Macs - if you're going to use a Mac, it's a single source anyway, so your decision is either you trust it or you don't, and if you trust it, you may as well trust that their engineering does not allow the camera to activate without the light also coming on. And if you don't trust it, then why use the Mac?
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this makes sense, but it's inapplicable for Macs - if you're going to use a Mac, it's a single source anyway, so your decision is either you trust it or you don't, and if you trust it, you may as well trust that their engineering does not allow the camera to activate without the light also coming on. And if you don't trust it, then why use the Mac?
As St. Reagan would say, "trust but verify". And it's trivial to verify that you're not being observed when you've just slid an opaque plastic cover across the lease. Verifying that a green LED's on/off state always correctly indicates the on/off state of the camera would be much more difficult, and probably isn't possible without voiding the warranty of the laptop.
And of course there is the whole separate issue of: just because the green LED (and camera) are off at this moment, doesn't mean that they co
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There are plenty of people dissecting and verifying everything in Apple devices. If there was some foul play or weaknesses, you'd have heard about it since the tech press loves going on and on and on about the smallest mistakes Apple makes.
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And if you don't trust it, then why use the Mac?
Because of macOS / OS X.
Re: Ok so (Score:2)
Single source?
You mean Foxconn? ;)
And no, they do not make every single controller in there.
Re: Ok so (Score:5, Informative)
Modern Thinkpads have a built-in sliding cover for the camera. You directly see the hardware switch. Simple and effective.
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On a Mac only software that gets explicit permission can access Mix and Cam ... so it is pretty pointless to have hardware switches.
Re:Ok so (Score:4, Funny)
Apple this is a feature you should build in.
But... but... but... thickness! Do you know how many tenths of a millimetre that would add? You monster!
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Less than the protective pouch you need so that tinfoil-thick laptop doesn't crumple when you put it away.
Re: Ok so (Score:2, Funny)
They will only stop with the 80s retro retro trend of the 2030s, when people start to carry their huge phabtops on their shoulders with a boom box themed app, and the first Apple iMacBook lops someone's arm clean off.
After "You're holding it wrong." works at first, they need to stop ZombieJobs in the middle of his keynote speech, while in an attempt to show its saftety, having lost both arms, and shouting "It's only a flesh wound!".
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Really? Because I thought it was hilarious. @jenningsthecat should keep posting. Often.
Re: Ok so (Score:2)
Let me guess. You think Monty Python's Flying Circus is stupid too?
Re: Ok so (Score:2)
Where did you read they stand behind the software and what exactly do they mean by "standing behind the software"? Do they have some guarantee, is anyone manages to hijack your camera, they give you back 10x the price of the Mac? Or does standing by software must means "our engineers think it's good" but if it gets hacked there will be some excuse like "oops, we had a bug, we fixed it now" where now may mean in the upcoming Mac, not your device.
Perhaps. They aren't wrong, though - tape okay (Score:2)
A built-in cover might be good.
They aren't wrong about add-on covers cracking the screen when you close it, though. The distance between the screen and the touchpad area isn't a lot.
At the end of my first day on a new job, I learned that closing an Apple laptop can crack the heck out of the screen if things aren't right.
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Apple this is a feature you should build in
That's what they had on the original iSight FireWire camera. They had a mechanical shutter that you operated by turning. When you opened it, it'd trigger an event to open iChat AV; FaceTime's predecessor. When you closed it, it'd turn off the camera and microphone circuit along with closing the shutter in front of the lens. It was a quite expensive camera though, so the built in ones resembling what we have now came next and were the first popular ones, since there was no opt out choice either.
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Aww, I could have used the money.
Re: Ok so (Score:2)
Oh noes!
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NEXT!
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What I don't understand is how they are claiming that a piece of tape can cause damage.
They aren't claiming that. They said to avoid anything thicker than a piece of printer paper(0.1mm), unless you remove it before closing the laptop.
Bad summary (Score:3, Informative)
They are not saying donâ(TM)t cover your camera, they are saying donâ(TM)t use little plastic pieces with or without a slide to cover the camera.
Anyone with a brain would know that putting on of those on doesnâ(TM)t allow the laptop lid to close entirely. I ripped mine off because of that very problem. You know what does work and wonâ(TM)t crack the screen? Tape.
The article doesnâ(TM)t say donâ(TM)t use tape (or maybe it did Iâ(TM)m old school I donâ(TM)t read articles). But tape wonâ(TM)t cause your screen to crack. And if you use electrical tape you get plenty of reuse out of it
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Hipsters aren't going to spoil the look of their MacBook with tape!
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Electrical tape leaves residue. And the older it gets, the more residue it leaves.
They make sliding plastic covers that are literally no thicker than a couple of pieces of electrical tape. If one of those breaks your iToy then it really is designed like shit.
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As compared to what, butthurt basement dwellers and their Full ATX Tower with water cooling and LED christmas tree lights. They have no camera to begin with, because they don't have the face for it, and even if they did, they don't have friends since they don't even have MacBooks.
Sticker or tape not okay - seriously? (Score:2)
Placing a cover, sticker or tape over a laptop camera ... your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances,
If a sticker or tape causes problems, the clearance is way too small, tolerance way too tight. At that point, I'd start worrying about molecular bonding effects sealing the lid closed. :-)
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I would presume they're worried about their lens cover being too delicate to withstand continuous contact with glue.
Re: Sticker or tape not okay - seriously? (Score:1)
The glue miggt be stronger than the one that the case is glued together with. Or than the paint. Knowing Apple, I presume both.
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Re:Sticker or tape not okay - seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, the worry is residue obscuring the lens, so when you DO use the camera, all anyone sees is a blurry mess where your face should be. You can probably clean it off (it's just glass, after all) but that can be a pain to do everytime.
Maybe not an issue if you're using it for work, but it's a huge issue if you're using it for home and doing video conferencing with relatives and such.
Re: Sticker or tape not okay - seriously? (Score:1)
The screen is glass. The problem Iâ(TM)ve actually seen is that users notice the gummy residue and need either significant physical force and scratch something or theyâ(TM)ll use acetone or glue remover, which gets rid of the residue and all sorts of other plastic and glue wherever it gets.
Post-it would be better (Score:3)
A Post-it doesn't leave as much residue and they come in fun colors---especially if you like yellow.
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A sticker or tape causes problems with the autobrightness settings. A slideable plastic cover causes problems closing the lid. A slashdot editor causes problems with a summary that makes the distinction clear.
translation (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple designers were all absent on the days their professors discussed interference and tolerance (as related to engineering). The products are fragile (but expensive) junk, and they really want you to be completely dependent on their "good word" for any shred of privacy.
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Examining my laptop now....NOPE!
Adding 1mm (10x Apple's recommendation) at the top of the lid applies no significant stress to the display when I close the lid.
This is more of Apple's obsession with thinness at the expense of durability or even usability.
Re: translation (Score:1)
We are talking about high end laptops, even Dell has tight tolerances on their Latitudes and some 2in1 snap close with magnets that gives a huge shock. Iâ(TM)ve see a screen cracked on a Surface Pro ($3k) because the magnets snapped the keyboard shut and the user didnâ(TM)t see a small metal screw that had gotten onto the magnetic piece.
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Apple may not be the only over-priced and under designed laptop out there these days, but it certainly is one of them.
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Claims like this usually get completely debunked by ppl who know more about the topic.
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Based on your lack of debunking, you are apparently not one of those knowledgeable people. One wonders why you feel qualified to comment on the subject then.
So far, the best attempt was (more or less) Microsoft has a similar problem. Paragon of quality that it is.
Re: (Score:2)
Based on your lack of debunking, you are apparently not one of those knowledgeable people. /. you find posts that clearly show that similar specced Dells/HPs/IBMs cost the same or more.
No, I'm not.
Not very interesting topic for me.
But even on
That MacBooks are overpriced is simply a myth.
Re: (Score:2)
The difference is the Dells, HPs, et. al. don't have their displays break so easily (or have as many keyboard failures, etc, etc).
It's one thing to pay top dollar for something that is reasonably durable, quite another to pay that much for "you're holding it wrong".
Re: (Score:2)
My laptops are partly over 10 years old ... one is 9. They all work perfectly fine.
I think the holding wrong thing was an iPhone 4 issue, no idea. I don't follow such bollocks memes.
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My laptops are partly over 10 years old
Things have changed in the interim. Some brands have gotten better since then, some are much much worse.
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Been using a piece of electrical tape on the Lenovos here at my office, for the last 5 years or so. Not a single broken screen! And yes, it is physics - if you designed your laptop with zero tolerance surface-to-surface geometry with zero flex and give, then it will break. That says a LOT more about the designer and mechanical engineers, though, than it does about a person using a piece of tape.
I can't imagine the system devastation if you left a Post-It note on the screen and closed things up!
Re: translation (Score:2)
My thinkpad has a built in sliding cover that physically blocks the lens. Even if malware manages to activate the camera, it still won't be able to see anything.
Re: (Score:2)
Would be nice if they included a decent webcam. Few laptops have good ones but we are starting to see 1080p and half decent exposure/contrast.
The green indicator light is untrustworthy (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Green light hackable? (Score:1)
Can the camera be enabled somehow while the green light is off (is it an operating system function), or is it a hardware functionality built into the camera that cannot be turned off? That is, if it's hardware, then it should be impossible to grab a frame from it without the light turning on .. speaking of which can a frame be grabbed periodically in an instant so you don't notice the green light .. or does the green light have a minimum time that it stay lit?
Anyone know?
Re: (Score:2)
At least at one time, the camera could be activated without the light. That may or may not have been corrected. In any event, even with a minimum time on, there's probably any number of circumstances where the user wouldn't notice a quick look through the camera.
Stickers (Score:2)
I don't see how they can recommend against STICKERS due to the display cracking. Covers I can understand but if your display is cracking due to a sticker being over the camera then the tolerances are too tight.
FWIW I don't bother on my laptops but on my desktop (which is where I do most of the Zoom/Teams meetings anyways) I have a little 3d-printed cover that I drop over the camera when not in use. Particularly when working from home I don't want to accidentally answer a video call sitting there in my und
Re: (Score:2)
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TL/DR: (Score:5, Funny)
You're closing it wrong.
A better solution (Score:3)
Use painter's tape. It doesn't leave a residue on the camera or the lid.
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You mean masking tape? Even the really good stuff gets hard to remove after a couple of weeks.
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no, he meant blue painter's tape. which is what a lot of 3d printer guys have sitting around, for some odd reason..
low sticky content, does not damage most surfaces, is meant to be temporary but hold long enough and not fly away with wind.
just what you want. and in pretty blue, too.
Re: (Score:2)
no, he meant blue painter's tape. which is what a lot of 3d printer guys have sitting around, for some odd reason..
Yes, we painters (I went to school for auto body and paint) call that masking tape. There's also green and purple tape, which last even longer and leave less residue than the blue tape.
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3M drives me nuts because they are environmental rapists, but their products are quantitatively superior to everyone else's. I wish they would put more effort into reducing their environmental footprint. If anyone can figure out how to make great products without shitting up the biosphere, surely it is 3M.
Riiiggt... (Score:2, Interesting)
If a layer of mylar is too much, your product is defective by design. Unless you finally admit that it's not meant to be used, but tech poser jewelry. :)
Re:Riiiggt... (Score:5, Informative)
The advisory does point out that using tape will interfere with the ability of the screen to autoadjust for lighting conditions. But it won't break the screen.
Re:Riiiggt... (Score:4, Insightful)
As a reply has already pointed out, that's wrong. But your assertion is also wrong—I very often expect tight tolerances out of my equipment and electronics. I want a paper-thin gap when it's feasible for one to exist without compromising the functionality of the product. Go look at the panel gaps on a Japanese car—they're all as small as they can be with very little deviation. Now look at cars made by virtually anyone else—the tolerances are sloppy and ugly.
Tight tolerances are often a sign of quality engineering. Being able to fit 2mm of plastic between the lid and the case would be a sign of shit build quality.
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Japanese and American cars are just copies of what BMW and Mercedes were doing ten years before, but done with corners cut and cheaper materials.
German cars used to be built on the principle that the best parts made the best car. Japanese cars were built with the idea that the best design made the best car. But now German cars are made with shitty parts (They are all made out of tons of Bosch and ZF shit, and both of them have gone into the toilet) so now the Japanese cars are dramatically better.
German cars are now built to disintegrate and their parts prices are designed to discourage repairing them, to destroy used car quality in order to discour
Black Paint (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
If you feel that way, you'd better do something about the mic.
That's called a design flaw! (Score:2)
It's also worth pointing out that if Apple cares so deeply about users security and privacy, they would of build a slider into the frame to allow the user to cover the camera. It's not enough that it has a light and that you ask permission, the only way to handle webcams (apart from not having one), is to cover it. Apple is basically using the pull out method, for cameras, to prevent knockin
Re:That's called a design flaw! (Score:5, Informative)
The advisory does point out that using tape will interfere with the ability of the screen to autoadjust for lighting conditions. But it won't break the screen.
which one is iApproved iTape (Score:2)
Indicator is backwards (Score:5, Insightful)
That's backwards. If the light burns out or somehow fails, the camera can be on and you'll assume it's off because you've been trained by the indicator to think that light off = camera off. You won't realize the indicator has failed until you deliberately turn the camera on and notice the light doesn't turn on.
The most important indicator is one that tells you that the camera is off, not on. Lenovo did this right. The built-in cover on my Thinkpad's camera [youtu.be] shows red when it's closed. So whenever I see it's red, I know the camera is covered and I'm protected. If it fails (say the cover breaks off and falls inside the bezel), I know the camera is uncovered because it's no longer red. It fails safe, rather than fails dangerous.
If you want, you can add another indicator to tell you the camera is on. But to protect against failures, the most important indicator is one that tells you the camera is off, so you can assume the camera is active if you don't see that indicator.
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The other big problem with the light is that it comes on with the camera when it starts recording. So that means that if you happen to see that it's illuminated, it may already be too late.
light does fuck-all (Score:1)
Re:light does fuck-all (Score:5, Funny)
Fuck Apple (Score:2)
what about the warning light...and the microphone? (Score:1)
So put some tape on the sides, too? (Score:2)
just goes to show (Score:1)
Alexa, turn off the webcam (Score:1)
Electrical Tape Works Fine (Score:2)
Bad Mechanical Engineering! (Score:2)
Ironically.... (Score:2)
Funnily enough, most users started using the covers because they were afraid of cracking.
Close tolerances suck (Score:2)
My laptop isn't an Apple. It does close tight to the keyboard though, which sucks, because fingerprint grease gets transferred from the keys to the screen when the lid is closed. It's terrible.
I taped a piece of paper over the camera.
If the tolerance is really that tight (Score:2)
If the tolerance is really that tight then it's improperly designed.
I also have a hard time believing that inserting something as thin as a piece of tape between the covers is really the problem.
Craptop (Score:2)
So weak a PIECE OF FUCKING TAPE can trash your display.
And you pay exorbitant prices for it.
What do you expect? (Score:2)
When you make things hideously thin, the structural integrity of everything is compromised.
Thanks Apple, you made a laptop so fragile, you can't fucking paste a sticker on top of the screen,
Light sensor (Score:2)
Doesn’t it have a light sensor just opposite to the camera at the same distance as the indicator light? It might just be my very old Mac.
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A "camera cover" maybe, a thin piece of black tape? Ridiculous at first glance.
gets gummy after just a week.
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A dab of paint on the lens. Because if I want to take a pic I'll use a camera FFS and I will control the entire process. Not Abble.
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if you think laptop webcams are for taking pictures I think you have missed something.
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Don't use cheap electrical tape, and it won't get gummy
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