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Businesses Medicine Apple

Apple Opens 100 More US Stores -- With Mandatory Temperature Checks For Customers (appleinsider.com) 68

Posted by EditorDavid from the think-healthy dept.
"Apple is in the process of reopening 100 U.S. retail stores," reports Apple Insider, adding "as expected, those outlets look a lot different post-coronavirus." For example, the company is performing temperature-checks at the door and requiring facial coverings before entering the store. Apple has also indicated that it will provide facial coverings to customers if need be. As you approach the Apple Store, you should notice some changes right away. In the Lynnhaven Mall in Virginia Beach, Virginia, the Apple Store had multiple employees outside to guide customers into lines — one line for walk-ups, and another for reservations. While waiting in line, an employee asks you a series of four questions and takes your temperature:

- Do you currently have a fever?
- Do you currently have a cough?
- Are you currently experiencing any respiratory issues?
- Have you been in contact with any suspected or confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the last 14 days?

Answering "yes" to any question will prevent you from entering the store, even if wearing a mask. Answering "no" across the board will allow you to have your temperature checked. Apple assures customers that data isn't being recorded...

Apple retail is enforcing social distancing measures by mandating six feet of space between customers, reducing the number of products on display, and rearranging store features to allow for more space between them... If a device is handed from customer to employee, the employee will wipe it down on receipt, before beginning service or operation of the device. There are multiple stations with disinfecting wipes and hand sanitizer...

Customer occupancy and store hours have also been reduced, with Apple encouraging customers to purchase online or opt for curbside pickup when possible.
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Apple Opens 100 More US Stores -- With Mandatory Temperature Checks For Customers More

Apple Opens 100 More US Stores -- With Mandatory Temperature Checks For Customers

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  • You can't hang out at the Apple Store without your parents. So take your germ-laden hands somewhere else!

  • Those are some elaborate rituals (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kohath ( 38547 ) on Saturday May 30, 2020 @08:43PM (#60126838)

    Someone needs to do a study to find out if any of this ritualized behavior accomplishes anything. And which parts accomplish what.

    • The masks are probably the most effective if they're proper masks being properly worn. They're not going to stop everything, but they'll cut down the velocity of the droplets that are the primary vector by which the virus spreads.

      The questions sounds like the standard airport shtick about your bags. People will either lie or honestly don't know and just tell the person asking the question the answer that will get them to move along to the next person.

      • Even if the virus could get through, it has to travel in said droplet. The velocity of air passing through the filter is greatly reduced. Considering a cough travels WAY farther than 6ft, and the 6ft rule is from 1918 mythology not based at all on fact, A mask will make the 6ft rule more realistic. Have you seen the video of what happens when you cough in a grocery store with recirculating air? The droplets travel as far as 2 aisles over. Outdoors you can probably have 6ft and no mask. Indoors your swimmin

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Wookie Monster ( 605020 )
      Apple is all about image. It doesn't matter if these steps actually improve customer safety or not. If Apple customers feel that Apple is "doing the right thing", then they'll feel good about Apple, and customer loyalty is maintained.

      • Apple is all about image.

        Exactly. Only the coolest of the cool dudes are allowed into their store.

      • Or more simply, they feel safe entering the stores and buying things! Security theater, medical safety theater, really two cuts of the same cloth.
    • The questions might not help because people can lie, but taking the temperature certainly helps. There's a low probability that someone is contagious if they don't have a fever.

      • Re:Those are some elaborate rituals (Score:5, Informative)

        by pauljlucas ( 529435 ) on Saturday May 30, 2020 @10:16PM (#60127002) Homepage Journal

        There's a low probability that someone is contagious if they don't have a fever.

        Reality [nejm.org] disagrees with you.

        • There's a low probability that someone is contagious if they don't have a fever.

          Reality [nejm.org] disagrees with you.

          That summary doesn't disagree with what I wrote. Cool link, though.

      • Re:Those are some elaborate rituals (Score:4)

        by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Sunday May 31, 2020 @05:38AM (#60127780)

        but taking the temperature certainly helps. There's a low probability that someone is contagious if they don't have a fever.

        There's a few things wrong there:
        a) a fever is just a mild symptom of COVID-19.
        b) a fever is a short duration symptom of COVID-19 unless you end up with blood poisoning. i.e. you may have the virus for a month, be highly contagious for a month but may only have a fever for one or two days.
        c) a fever is not a determination of how contagious someone is as we don't spread it by heat, we spread it through contact and body fluids (coughing, sniffling, or wiping your nose is far more of an indicator of being a threat to others).
        d) your skin temperature is *not* an indicator of your body temperature, and hitting you with a heatgun is just for show. Unless your temperature is being taken orally, tympanically, or very slowly over a several minute process by squeezing a probe in your body parts (armpits or where the sun don't shine) you have absolutely no way of telling if someone is running a fever. By the time you positively identify someone with a fever using that feelgood method that people adopt (IR thermometer) you can likely *see* they have a fever since at that point they'll be flushed.

        So yes, taking a temperature can help in a narrow range of scenarios if done properly, but it's completely irrelevant for actually fighting the virus.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mark-t ( 151149 )

        The questions are problematic because they put Apple in the position of being unfairly discriminatory.

        Or there's that.... you know, a person with a non-contagious respiratory disorder might always lie.

        In fact, apparently now they have to... or just not go into an Apple store anymore.

      • The questions might not help because people can lie, but taking the temperature certainly helps. There's a low probability that someone is contagious if they don't have a fever.

        This is utter nonsense.

        30% of those with symptoms serious enough to merit hospital admission don't have a temperature.

        At very least 30% of those who get infected never have any symptoms yet remain contagious for a week or more.

        Pre-symptomatic people are contagious for about 2-3 days prior to development of symptoms.

        People taking aspirin for symptom relief will defeat temperature checks.

        Taking temperatures is unreliable. You have better odds at guessing right by flipping a coin. If your goal is to keep p

        • 30% of those with symptoms serious enough to merit hospital admission don't have a temperature. At very least 30% of those who get infected never have any symptoms yet remain contagious for a week or more.

          What are you talking about, where did you come up with these numbers?

    • Re:Those are some elaborate rituals (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 30, 2020 @09:39PM (#60126946)

      You're missing the point here. The ritual is not to enforce anything at all. It is for one reason, and one reason alone: if they didn't do something like this, and a customer could prove that they caught COVID19 through an exposure at the store, Apple would be liable for not taking reasonable precautions.

      I realized this about my place of employment recently. I noticed that a lot of the requirements that were being put in place were stated in a way that didn't make a lot of sense if the underlying motivation was to stop the pandemic. Instead, they make sense if the goal is to limit company liability. If you wanted to prevent infection, you'd say to your employees, "we will provide you with a surgical mask when you enter the building; if you would feel more comfortable with an N95 mask, please contact your supervisor to see if that can be arranged." Instead they say, "we are meeting CDC and state guidelines and issuing surgical masks upon entry to the building; no other masks will be allowed, even if purchased with personal funds or ordered through the company." They only care about liability and being able to state that they are strictly following governmental guidelines is a strong defence.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward

          How? Let's see. Here's a plausible scenario:

          1. Using cell phone data, it can be demonstrated that the only time person A left their home for two weeks was to shop at the Apple Store. They drove in their own car. They spent 90 minutes in the store and then immediately returned home and went no where else for days. Their presence in and path through the store can be confirmed through security footage. Four days after visiting the store (the average incubation, not the maximum figure you quoted), they st

          • I don't think this is viable. You can't prove that they didn't have any visitors or deliveries. This is just theater. And maybe to keep out some imbecile who wants to spread the virus.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by mark-t ( 151149 )

            They can accomplish their ends by asking only one question: "Are you currently sick, or have you been in contact with any suspected or confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the last 14 days?" This is basically just a revision of their fourth question.

            They don't need to ask the first question because they are taking your temperature anyways. If you have a very slight fever you may not even be aware of it so what good does it do to ask? Anyone who isn't aware or believes that they have a fever will answer no

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mark-t ( 151149 )

          You make the store enforce it by fining stores that allow people in without requiring them to wear a mask.

          It doesn't require any physical violence to make someone put on a mask or leave. It simply requires telling them to put on a mask or leave, and if necessary reminding them that if they do not do so, they are trespassing and security will be called.

          A store can say "no shoes no shirt no service", they can also say "wear a mask".

      • No I don't think so. I think its the equivalent of "security theater" to make people feel safe and spend money again. Doesn't need to be effective in terms of disease control. Just needs to have a psychological benefit.

    • Have you been to a hospital or doctors office lately? First thing they do when you enter the building is check your temperature. So all these medical facilities are in the wrong? Maybe you better alert them.

    • Their most likely benefit is shun-shaming people that may be sick and still do not self isolate. I.e., John Doe knows he's been feeling poorly and yet still continues about his business without regard to the health of others. He even refuses to get tested for COVID because to him, if he knew for certain, then the moral obligation to self isolate would be too high. So if he knows he could get publicly outed, then he may just stay home.

      It's really like the TSA security theater. Sure, it doesn't catch anyo

    • Someone needs to do a study to find out if any of this ritualized behavior accomplishes anything. And which parts accomplish what.

      This is just "safety theater". It allows humans to resume their accustomed and preferred behaviors while simultaneous assuaging their guilt and fear.

  • the looting?
    • I even wonder if looting an Apple store is worthwhile even though the goods are clearly valuable. They have serial numbers for all of the devices shipped there (and it's the same company so they won't have to worry about some other company dicking them around for weeks) and all of their hardware comes with software installed to help locate those devices. The phones aren't going to be able to activate on a network so they're worthless as a phone anyways.

  • Apple no more (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by zoid.com ( 311775 )

    I no longer have any Apple products that I use. That's a big change in 10 years. Macbook was the hardest to let go but the last few MacOS updates made it much easier.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

      So what are you using now?

      Video on youtube by Rick Beato. Think it's entitled - Apple, it's great if you like crap.
      He explains why he doesn't like them any more.

  • Well aren't they the proactive ones?
  • And the managers. After all, you are more likely to get it from workers for Xie-USA then you are from each other.
  • so, if you tell me that i can't get into a store unless I answer no to all the questions, i'll make sure to answer no even if one of the answers is yes! saying the correct answer doesn't mean you're saying the truth...

    • Re:Bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mark-t ( 151149 ) <{moc.talfdren} {ta} {tkram}> on Sunday May 31, 2020 @08:40AM (#60128062) Journal

      This.

      The questions are, in fact, entirely pointless.

      If a person wants to go into the store and knows they will denied entry if they answer yes, then they will answer no to all the questions, even if the answer would truthfully be yes, as long as they are predisposed towards lying in order to get into the store, which of course is hardly a high barrier for entry.

      But even if Apple could magically compel people to tell the truth, questions two and three are blatantly discriminatory against certain classes of (very much non-contagious) breathing disorders. A person might very well be doing everything that is medically possible to treat such conditions, but that doesn't mean that they won't still suffer occasionally or sometimes quite frequently from symptoms of the condition.

      And, for what it's worth, it's also a violation of the Disabilities Act. But it will probably take someone with enough time and money who actually cares about it to call Apple out on the practice and confront them in court about it.

  • I wouldn't give those turtlenecked twats a single penny of my money anyhow.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • They are making an assumption. (Score:3)

    by Gonoff ( 88518 ) on Sunday May 31, 2020 @06:34AM (#60127856)

    One assumption they are making is that everyone has the same base body temperature. This, for USians and those over 85 elsewhere, is 97.7F-99.5F. For the rest of us, that's 37C plus or minus 0.5.

    Not everyone falls into this group. I believe there are a very few whose body temperatures are normally over 38 degrees so they would show up sick even when they were not. They would be dried entrance even though they were healthy.

    More worryingly, there are many people with body temperatures well below the "98.6 norm". If one of them gets a fever, it will not show up on those scanners. They will waltz straight in and share the virus!

    Yes, this is why it is a good idea to get everyone wearing masks but they are far from perfect - especially homemade and cheap Amazon ones.

    This will still give the "freedumb" virtue signallers the opportunity to show that they are special by refusing to go in.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Ormy ( 1430821 )

      I can firm the above, I am one of those who's skin temperature* is a bit lower than most and when I have a fever it barely increases at all.

      *Be careful about specifying which temperature you're talking about. The core (internal organ) temperature of humans is very consistent across the population and must stay quite consistent for individuals over time, an increase or decrease of just a few degrees is often fatal. Skin temperatures are far more variable across populations and over time for individuals. M

  • Are you a terrorist?
    Are you a criminal on the run?
    Are you too stupid to lie?

  • I *always* experience respiratory issues.

    Almost daily, in fact.

    Yes, I am doing everything that can be medically done for it.

    But here's a fucking clue Apple: it's not contagious.

    But hey, I guess if you don't allow people with asthma into your stores anymore, I imagine that's just fine.

  • COVID-19 raging in asymptomatic people will still register lower blood saturation levels, even while your temperature is fine.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

      If it's showing up on the oximeter you're not very likely to be at the store. At least if covid-19 is the cause. I know people that have had it and they told me they're lucky to be able to get to the bathroom. Take THE worst flu you've ever had, it's much worse they say.

      I have owned one for many years. I use it in my air plane to make sure I'm not experiencing hypoxia. Lately I've been running 97% and I'm close to sea level.

      Elevated temperature kicks in right away. BTW, Covid-19 is the disease. That's what

  • So... people without medical training... are making medical decisions, without a medical license...?
  • Good, thats the standard sop. But also we need to practice social distancing. You might have the ideal body temperature, but who knows that you could be the carrier. Plus, if you could do online shopping, it will be much easier and safer.
  • Job interview wednesday. Busy prepping, study interview questions at apple https://mrsimon.ai/interview-q... [mrsimon.ai] and i rehearsing my presentation.

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