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Apple and Google Are Launching a Joint COVID-19 Tracing Tool (techcrunch.com) 80

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Engineering teams at Apple and Google have banded together to create a decentralized contact tracing tool that will help individuals determine whether they have been exposed to someone with COVID-19. From a report: Contact tracing is a useful tool that helps public health authorities track the spread of the disease and inform the potentially exposed so that they can get tested. It does this by identifying and 'following up with' people who have come into contact with a COVID-19 affected person. The first phase of the project is an API that public health agencies can integrate into their own apps. The next phase is a system level contact tracing system that will work across iOS and Android devices on an opt-in basis. The system uses on-board radios on your device to transmit an anonymous ID over short ranges -- using Bluetooth beaconing. Servers relay your last 14 days of rotating IDs to other devices which search for a match. A match is determined based on a threshold of time spent and distance maintained between two devices.
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Apple and Google Are Launching a Joint COVID-19 Tracing Tool More

Apple and Google Are Launching a Joint COVID-19 Tracing Tool

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  • Don't worry... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Joce640k ( 829181 ) on Friday April 10, 2020 @01:15PM (#59929050) Homepage

    Don't worry, the data collected will be anonymous and they'll delete it after three years.

    • Re:Don't worry... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Friday April 10, 2020 @01:20PM (#59929066) Homepage Journal

      But it will be mandatory to install and keep actively running. You know, for the safety of the State...err..Children.

    • I noticed in the past couple weeks, there have been a TON of updates on my iPhone....have there been the same on Android phones?

      I've been suspecting that all of us are being monitored by our phones and they've been pushing this stuff out on the QT.

      Don't get me wrong, I see the use and need for this, BUT....I'm also cognizant that this could be against a lot of our civil rights if this is at all driven or associated with our governments.

      • your phone data is being shared (claimed anonymously) to see if people are congregating in violation of "social distance" orders

        google maps had this long ago by the way, anyone could access

        • your phone data is being shared (claimed anonymously) to see if people are congregating in violation of "social distance" orders

          google maps had this long ago by the way, anyone could access

          But, what if you're not using google maps?

          What if not only is it not turned on, but it is not installed....google maps or even Apple Maps (not turned on)....

          Are they still tracking you?

          Should you not be notified as to what is gathering this info on you?

          Are they gathering it from other apps...is this being pushed by

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

            Both Google and Apple passively track where you are constantly, it's in their privacy policies, for similar reasons. The most obvious thing they use this for is traffic data. Ever wondered how Google knows there's a traffic jam? Because it sees a whole lot of phones moving slowly down the road.

            They also track you for "Internet of Things" reasons: both iOS and Android allow you to run IoT presets based on your current location. How do they know where you are? They track you.

            Apple has a system called "Find My

            • They also track you for "Internet of Things"

              I don't have any IoT devices that I know of....

              Apple has a system called "Find My" that involves it constantly tracking every iDevice

              I don't have that turned on either...I don't believe the "find my" is turned on by default when you get your phones, iPads, etc....at least it wasn't on any of my recent purchases.

              So, and this of course is only my own anecdotal experience, on my Apple stuff, I don't believe I have anything to date that is turned on to allow them

              • It's not Maps--it's Google Location Services. You could have this off, but if you did, you would know. Yes it is on by default (effectively.) It is the default option when going through your new phone setup. They do at least ask you during setup.
          • unless you leave your GPS on. You would notice the battery drain if they were. Now, if you leave your GPS on then yes, they are probably tracking you. You have to turn off a lot of the Map features to avoid being tracked while the GPS is turned on.

            Personally getting free GPS software in exchange for my privacy is worth it. There are much, much easier ways to oppress me than tracking my movements.

            • Cells phones were tracked and located long before they had GPS... to tens of meters. Maybe tower triangulation is better now, need someone in industry to pipe up.

              • Not really. It could be better, but as it is done passively using what cell you are in and it's shape from each tower, it's still a relatively rough location. The more directional the antennna/cell from the eNB on each tower, the more exact the location.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by fred911 ( 83970 )

                  Incorrect. The polling data from mobile devices provide quite an accurate location of the device. That polling data is archived and make it very easy for historical location of the device with very good accuracy. The data transferred by polling contains signal strength and quality data for all or servers polling the mobile address and that's just a simple example.

                  Finding analogue wireless transmission is quite accurate with three receivers and has been used since the 1940's, today it's significantly more si

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by eepok ( 545733 )

      Pinky swear?

    • Re:Don't worry... (Score:5, Informative)

      by tele ( 246082 ) on Friday April 10, 2020 @02:55PM (#59929394)

      You may want to read the protocol specification first :-)

      - Location is not tracked, only proximity to others
      - Your proximity history never leaves your phone, only some keys do in case you are tested positive

      If this is done right, all privacy-critical data remains on your phone.

      PS: Of course one may argue that there might be more going on behind the scenes. But in that case I wonder why people with that kind of reasoning do use a smartphone at all

      • Location is not tracked, only proximity to others

        A distinction without a difference. I believe the majority of users have enabled location on their phones, and if I'm tracked as "in proximity" with user X whose location is known, then my location is known. And I don't believe for a minute that Google will let a tool that lets them add tracking for the black sheep that disable location on their phones just fall by the wayside...

        • Location is not tracked, only proximity to others

          A distinction without a difference. I believe the majority of users have enabled location on their phones, and if I'm tracked as "in proximity" with user X whose location is known, then my location is known.

          Read the published specification. For that matter, read the post you replied to: "Your proximity history never leaves your phone". That means no one gets it, not Google, not anyone else.

      • Yes. Oddly the "if you test positive" prerequisite for sending the data to a server is missing in the summary.

        I had considered starting my own log of position whenever I went out so that I could hand it over if I happen to test positive at some point, but this seems better. (I have google position history turned off and have google play services denied position access on my phone. I would be using OsmAnd for the position log, the openstreetmap client for android.)

      • Your proximity to others with location tracking on is the same thing as tracking location directly.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bodie1 ( 1347679 )

      From TFA, location data is not used. Data is not even shared unless you opt-in a second time to do so. The only data used is randomized 'keys' of other phones you have been near. That data is then just published as "the owner of this device has it." Your phone checks the list and tells you, "hey, we were near that person on this day for X minutes." Because of that, it won't help in the contaminated doorknob case.

      If one was really worried, they could rotate through a bunch of old phones with the software run

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Bodie1 ( 1347679 )

        Matches should be 23451 34512 and 45123, matching to those listed above. (It's still early here)

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Chaset ( 552418 )

        I'm glad somebody's actually paying attention and looking into the details. The whole discussion is full of knee-jerk "the gov'mnt is tracking my every move!" reactions. Too bad I don't have any mod points.

        • I agree, how else are we going to get out of lockdown quickly without contact tracing and isolation? It is either this or we lift the lockdown and get bounce and kill thousands more people. For an allegedly science orientated discussion forum there seem to be a lot of people who do not even start to comprehend the idea of using science to solve problems. What else can we do?

        • You don't understand the nature of how "tracking" using Anonymous data is still not anonymous at all. Given enough "random" anonymous data, a profile can be built that does indeed reveal specifics.

          Yes, all from Anonymous Sources.

          And that's a problem. It isn't one source, it is all of them together. Digital Fingerprint of my phone is unique, and links directly back to me, eventually. The fact that it looks innocuous at first glance gives false sense of security.

          • You don't understand the nature of how "tracking" using Anonymous data is still not anonymous at all. Given enough "random" anonymous data, a profile can be built that does indeed reveal specifics.

            Read the specification. There is no way a profile can be built, because no identifiable data is released.

            I don't mean no "unanonymized" data is released, I mean no data that has any connection to anything at all is released. The only thing that is released -- and only to the health service, not to Google or Apple, and only with user permission when the user discovers they've tested positive -- is a bunch of random keys, not bound to any device or account. Those random keys are then sent to all of the o

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by elcor ( 4519045 )
      What would Google do with precise geolocation data anyway.

      • They could use it to form a profile for individual voters so that political ads can specifically target people that are likely to change their minds and vote.

        Is your polling place in your geolocation history? Did you suddenly stop going to work? Did you start going to a food bank? Time to blast you with ads.

    • Don't worry, the data collected will be anonymous and they'll delete it after three years.

      The only data collected is a set of randomly-generated keys, not linked to any account or device, and those keys are only collected (by the local health authority, not Apple or Google) when someone who has tested positive voluntarily provides them. Then the collected keys are distributed to all other users of the app, which allows their app to look through its own logs and determine if values derived from those keys were ever received via BLE. If so, the app of the undiagnosed user knows that they were in

  • There are many people like my mom who do not even know how to install an app. This seems like something that needs to be done with cellular tower data or an app already installed like playstore or facebook.

    Will installing an app after you are infected do any good at all?
    It seems like the people this would be most useful for are the people who are the least likely to install it or practice proper social distancing.

    • Stores, stadiums, office buildings etc could require the app running on your phone before they let you indoors.

      People who value their health could refuse to patronize stores that donâ(TM)t require it.

      Station an army of furloughed millennials at the entrance to install the app for you if you donâ(TM)t know how.

      • I do not own a so-called "smart" so-called "telephone," and have less than zero interest in having one. My 90-year-old mother likewise. Are we now un-persons?
        • Yes, you stay indoors and enrich your elderly family's lives. Your children or the state will ship groceries and exercise equipment to your residence.
        • Unless you want to do stuff like (and I'm copy/pasting from my other comment on the subject) funding vaccine research, institute universal healthcare along with strong safety nets for people who get sick. Also demand an end to Just in Time business processes being used in medicine so that we can properly respond to a pandemic, and invest more money in pandemic response and research.

          These apps are a cheap way to stop a pandemic, the stuff I listed above is the expensive way to do it. Freedom ain't cheap.
      • Not in the US it wont.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 )

      yes, ultimately will be mandatory, with punitive measures and ability to prevent person from working or have free movement

      good biblical "mark of the beast stuff"

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by clcobra ( 921072 )

        Well well looks like soon personal EMP devices will be a hotcake, you want to track me?> track this!

      • Not sure what else you can do to get out of lockdown. The UK is floating the idea of allowing those under the age of 30 to go back to work whilst older people remain in shutdown. Is this any better for you? Of course the young who die of the disease will continue to die of it but in much reduced numbers and the old will lose their jobs and go bankrupt. No options look attractive.

        • Those who have antibodies should be allowed to go back to work too, that might be huge percent of the over 30 crowd already and not known.

      • and institute universal healthcare along with strong safety nets for people who get sick. Also demand an end to Just in Time business processes being used in medicine so that we can properly respond to a pandemic, and invest more money in pandemic response and research.

        Freedom ain't cheap.

        • hahaha, you really think the mega-corporate bitches in Washington D.C. will go for that? no way.

          And I'm talking about both parties. Biden the senile meat puppet will do what his handlers say, Trump will do what's good for stocks. Congress on both sides the aisle know who fills their pork trough.

      • You know, if you test positive for a nasty bug, it seems like the government should maybe have the power to compel you to divulge your contacts. The cell phone companies already have this data, they just pretend that they don't so you don't squeal. This proposal is better than the government compeling the cell carriers to build histories on everyone. Is that what you want?

    • I know that Google already has all this data if you use an Android phone, unless you've explicitly opted out of it, I think. I get a monthly report from them showing exactly where I've traveled, since around January, I think. I was meaning to turn it off since it seemed a bit creepy to see them stalking me, but may leave it on for a while now, if it helps them to analyze the potential spread of this virus.

      This past month's report was a little depressing. One city visited, with just two locations: home an

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jonwil ( 467024 )

      Not to mention all the people who don't even have a phone capable of running the app.

  • And get even more money and power to abuse people for it.

    Who's a good data kraken?
    You are, Google and Apple! Yes, you are!

  • I might be OK with having Apple 'track' me for this.

    But a partnership with the privacy rapists [urbandictionary.com] known as Google? Yeah, hard pass!

    • Re:Apple I'm OK with. Google? Not so much (Score:5, Insightful)

      by leonbev ( 111395 ) on Friday April 10, 2020 @02:49PM (#59929376) Journal

      I don't think many of us are going to get a choice on this one. In more authoritarian states, they might require you to install this app on your phone and require you to take the phone with you if you go outside. Otherwise, it's six more weeks of "shelter in place" for you, Mr "I think that privacy is important".

      • the apps _will_ work. It's well known that contract tracing works. That's pretty well documented. And the apps will make it possible to automate contact tracing, stopping the pandemic in it's tracks.

        Now, there is a whole host of things we can do to stop pandemics besides this, but they're expensive. The problem is who's gonna pay for it? Nobody wants to. Will you pay an extra 10% of your income to cover vaccine research, universal healthcare, quarantines for people who may or may not be sick, etc, etc?

      • I don't think many of us are going to get a choice on this one. In more authoritarian states, they might require you to install this app on your phone and require you to take the phone with you if you go outside. Otherwise, it's six more weeks of "shelter in place" for you, Mr "I think that privacy is important".

        The app is actually very careful about your privacy. Unless you test positive and authorize the release of the information, it never does anything other than collect a local database of BLE-beaconed values, as well as transmit your own beaconed values for other devices to collect. The values change every 10 minutes (+- a fuzz factor) in lockstep with your bluetooth MAC address.

        If someone tests positive they can then release data to the health authority. The data released is a set of daily random keys

      • Its a real case of privacy vs safety, with very big weights on both sides of the decision. S. Korea demonstrated that contact tracking could control the virus outbreak. In the US that could save a couple of million lives.

        OTOH both companies and the government have given ample evidence not to trust them with information.

        So - what is your privacy worth? Will you trade it for a 10% chance of a hospital stay and a 1% chance of dying?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Why? Recall the big ad brands and big tech brands that "joined" PRISM for the good work of the NSA?
      For global collection.
      But this time its all going to be ok ... its for global "health"?

  • A lot of basic questions that, to me, almost makes this idea, much less implementation, a non-starter:

    - How far back will OS support be? Will it require the 'latest OS' only?
    - How far back will hardware support be? Only 'the latest and greatest'? Current +1 year? Current +2 years?
    - How will this be distributed to all the different manufacturers (Android)? How will users know to install this?

  • Yeah, sure, sure. It's 'opt-in' right up until the government decides to pull the trigger on the opportunity and make it mandatory for all citizens.
    You'll know you're junglefucked when they require you, by law, to own a smartphone and keep it with you at all times and turned on.

    Yes, some of us still don't have or want a ridiculous smartphone. I have no need for one. Most people don't. Even my $40 plastic dumbphone is either off or in 'Airplane Mode' most of the time, especially when traveling from place
  • There are dozens of us! DOZENS!!!

    • PrivateKit was mostly GPS-based, at least to start. But MIT is also doing PACT [mit.edu] which the article links to -- "One such example is MIT’s efforts to use Bluetooth to create a privacy-conscious contact tracing tool that was inspired by Apple’s Find My system. The companies say that those organizations identified technical hurdles that they were unable to overcome and asked for help."

      I saw a talk by most of the leaders of the PACT project (Rivest, Weitzner, Zissman) the other day, and they stated t

  • This is like a free beta program for the like of Apple and Google to test the technology. Can you imagine what FB would pay for this info?

  • How's this supposed to work with less than 0.2% of the population even tested? Hell, my state barely has 0.5% tested, and some have even less than that. The chances of you being exposed is FAR grater than the chances of someone you've come in contact with being tested so as to be traced back to you. This will be implemented, made a mandatory install for all and expanded on, possibly in secret, to allow tracking anyone and everyone in near, if not actual, real time.
  • https://www.tracetogether.gov.... [tracetogether.gov.sg] same concept.. and they also released the source code. https://github.com/OpenTrace-c... [github.com]
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Let's say for the sake of argument that this particular app is relatively benign. Google would love for us to put it on our devices and keep location services on, so all the other apps and functions which don't have all the fancy pants anonymization stuff can proceed unimpeded.

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