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Portables (Apple) Apple

Taika Waititi Slams Apple's MacBook Keyboards After Winning First Oscar (theverge.com) 148

Posted by msmash from the are-you-listening,-Apple dept.
Speaking with journalists after winning his first Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay, Jojo Rabbit and Thor: Ragnarok director Taika Waititi had other things on his mind. When asked what he thought writers should be demanding in the next round of discussions with producers, Waititi put Apple's controversial laptop keyboards on blast. A report adds: "Apple needs to fix those keyboards," he said. "They are impossible to write on -- they've gotten worse. It makes me want to go back to PCs. Because PC keyboards, the bounce-back for your fingers is way better. Hands up who still uses a PC? You know what I'm talking about. It's a way better keyboard. Those Apple keyboards are horrendous." "I've got some shoulder problems," Waititi continued. "I've got OOS [Occupational Overuse Syndrome, a term used in New Zealand for RSI] -- I don't know what you call it over here, this sort of thing here (gestures to arm), that tendon which goes down your forearm down into the thumb? You know what I'm talking about, if you guys are ever writing. And what happens is you open the laptop and you're like this (makes uncomfortable hunched-over-laptop pose) -- we've just got to fix those keyboards. The WGA needs to step in and actually do something." Tech columnist John Gruber adds: I've been saying for years now that Apple has done severe reputational harm to the MacBook brand, which effectively is the Mac brand for most people, especially writers. Yes, there's a new keyboard with scissor-switch mechanisms in the 16-inch MacBook Pro. It's a pleasure to type on. But we're still months away from the rest of the MacBook lineup being updated to use that new keyboard. And that's a presumption on my part, that all MacBooks will get the new keyboard sooner rather than later. It certainly wouldn't make any sense if they didn't -- but the whole butterfly-switch saga has never made any sense.
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Taika Waititi Slams Apple's MacBook Keyboards After Winning First Oscar More

Taika Waititi Slams Apple's MacBook Keyboards After Winning First Oscar

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    • Re:Glootie (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @02:57PM (#59711980)
      Anyone who uses a keyboard as a means to make a living has a serious complaint with Apple.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by garcia ( 6573 )

        I realize I'm in the minority within my office, let alone within Slashdot; however, I just don't have any problems with the keyboard.

        I use a 2017 MBP 13" and no external anything, except power. I spend so much of my day not at my desk, it doesn't make any sense to use additional peripherals and be switching back and forth all the time.

        • Do you have any cats that like to use your laptop as a bed? I'm guessing not.

        • I just don't have any problems with the keyboard.

          If you are meticulously clean you may not have problems.

          Most of my problems were caused by grit and crumbs. I eat lunch and snacks while using my laptop, and I have taken it hiking and on camping trips. Any keyboard will get jammed with enough gunk, but the MacBook keyboard will jam with one crumb, and it is very hard to shake it out.

          But I got a new 16" MPB as a Christmas present. It has the new redesigned keyboard. It has a better feel and I have had zero problems with it.

          • But I got a new 16" MPB as a Christmas present. It has the new redesigned keyboard. It has a better feel and I have had zero problems with it.

            Thank you for the information. Hopefully, Apple will (soon-ish) release an updated MacBook Air with that new keyboard.

          • I'm trying to wrap my head around the need for a laptop on a hiking or camping trip...

            • Probably for selfies, right?

            • I'm trying to wrap my head around the need for a laptop on a hiking or camping trip...

              Nobody "needs" a laptop for anything, anywhere, ever.

              When I am camping, I use my laptop for the same things I use it for at home: Checking email, web browsing, etc.

              Isn't that the point of a laptop: That you can take it with you?

        • Just like every keyboard known to mankind, some people love it, some people hate it, and most people just use it.

          But itâ(TM)s Apple, and so the Hatred seems to get amplified out of all reason.

          Was there a reliability issue? Yes, obviously. But Apple has addressed that with extended warranties and redesigns. And in the latest MacBook Pro 16â, they have actually reverted back to their scissor-based design.

          But now, even that wonâ(TM)t satisfy some people, who must obviously like the cheap, mushy

      • Re:Glootie (Score:5, Informative)

        by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:56PM (#59712414)

        Anyone who uses a keyboard as a means to make a living only uses the Laptop Keyboard as last resort.

        I am sorry. All Laptop Keyboards suck. For work I have a Think Pad and those are considered one of the top Laptop Kayboards... And it still sucks.
        But this is what I do because I don't like Laptop Keyboards, I plug in an external keyboard. I have a good quality mechanical key keyboard. It weighs nearly as much as my laptop, but it is worth it.

        If I am on the go, I can use the laptop keyboard in a pinch, however for a lot of writing or coding, I much rather plug in an external keyboard.

        • Same. All laptop keyboards I've seen have less travel and most have odd key layouts or make say the shift buttons 1/2 the size to cram them in there. Give me a $20 real keyboard and it'll knock the pants off what comes with any $3k laptop.

        • Your problem is not that you don't like your laptop keyboard, it's that you prefer mechanical keyboards. A lot of people use laptop-like keyboards* without any problems.

          * examples: Apple's external keyboards for the last decade or so.

          • "Your problem is not that you don't like your laptop keyboard"

            "I don't like Laptop Keyboards"

            Square that round hole.

            • "Anyone who uses a keyboard as a means to make a living only uses the Laptop Keyboard as last resort."

              He's making an assumption which simply isn't true except for himself.

              • Unless Apple has a 'work mostly from desk' clause in their user agreement, it's silly for them to assume people are only using the keyboard 'as a last resort'. This is a multi-thousand dollar laptop, the most expensive laptop. People should expect the best.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by J-1000 ( 869558 )

          I prefer laptop keyboards. I remember the old IBM monstrosities and I have no desire to go back. Yes, they're kind of fun and nostalgic, but they weigh a ton and can be heard from across the street.

          Membrane keyboards are just better if you ask me. I think we knew that back when we first switched to them, but we're forgetting again now that there's this trend to maximize the mechanical switch keyboard experience. It reminds me of the old trend toward cutting-board mouse pads, and the recent bounce back to cl

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by nyet ( 19118 )

            Gamers don't use membrane keyboards for a reason.

            They suck ass.

            If you find membrane keyboards sufficient, you either don't game or don't type very well to start with.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by J-1000 ( 869558 )
              I play FPS games and I type 70 words per minute. I'm not setting any records, but I'm not slow.
  • Do Apple developers use Apple keyboards to hack out code? Or do they use some external keyboard for their work stations?

    At what point could you accuse Apple of knowingly selling a defective product? If RSI claims are high in Apple compared to Microsoft would it count as some sort of evidence?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by MachineShedFred ( 621896 )

      I'm pretty sure people use whatever the fuck they like, because it's all USB.

      Pissing and moaning about a laptop keyboard being shit is useless - they are universally shit and have been for decades.

      If you are serious about writing, you probably have a space set aside for that work. That space should include a keyboard that you love; anyone that has ever spent time looking seriously at keyboards know that key response, feel, noise, etc. are really very personal choices.

      Would it be better if Apple hadn't trie

      • Re:Does Apple eat its dog food? (Score:5, Informative)

        by lactose99 ( 71132 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:20PM (#59712134)

        they are universally shit and have been for decades.

        My Thinkpads would like a word with you. I certainly don't need or even want an external keyboard with their use.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by EvilSS ( 557649 )
          Yep, the last laptop I bought was a Lenovo and I picked it specifically because I liked the feel of the keys on the keyboard. Prior to that I had a Dell with horrendous keys. In the PC space, almost all of the components are commodity at this point, and you can find configs you need from almost any brand. Their keyboards are one of their biggest differentiators. At home I use a nice mechanical KB but I don't want to drag an external keyboard around with me when I am out and about in meetings or on business

      • People like him usually work everywhere and have no dedicated place.
        Otherwise he would not use a laptop ...

        Is it really so hard to grasp that one who buys a laptop deserves a keyboard that "just works"?

        No idea why you are bitching at it ...

    • Any laptop keyboard is going to be worse for you than a good mechanical keyboard. I understand that it's not exactly easy to lug around a Model M with you, but most developers have a desk or docking station and can use a better keyboard than you could get with a laptop. The keyboards everyone's complaining about suck, but the old style they're going back to isn't good, it just sucks less.

      However, that doesn't make it defective. There's probably $30,000 worth of safety features or equipment that would mak
      • That doesn't mean that the laptop keyboard shouldn't try to be as good as possible for as many uses as possible.
        • But that's just a meaningless truism that doesn't really say anything. How much additional good are we willing to make trade-offs for? I'd say figuring out how to put a mechanical keyboard in a laptop would be incredibly good for most users for a variety of reasons, but I understand that there're some significant problems in doing that.

    • Re:Does Apple eat its dog food? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:33PM (#59712226)

      Apple replaced the horrible butterfly keyboard with a significantly improved scissor switch keyboard in the latest revision of the MacBook Pro, so this is all kinda moot, given that it's clear Taika is using the old keyboard. The new mechanism is based off the one used in their Magic Keyboard, which, unlike the atrocious butterfly keyboards, has been well-liked for years.

      Speaking from first-hand experience, it's worlds better. I never could stand the butterfly keys, but I like the Magic Keyboard's feel so much that I'm actually typing this post from one (i.e. it's my daily keyboard at work). It strikes a nice balance between stability, noise, and key travel, and it doesn't have any of the reliability issues that plagued the butterfly keyboards.

      Plus, there's also the fact that if he's dealing with RSI, he's likely be better off using an ergonomic keyboard anyway. He can just plug one in. Even if the keyboard manufacturer never bothered making Mac-specific drivers, Macs work with USB keyboards right out of the box via standard HID drivers that virtually every USB device has supported for the last few decades.

    • Re:Does Apple eat its dog food? (Score:4, Funny)

      by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:47PM (#59712326) Journal
      REAL Apple fans use the Wheel [youtube.com]. You have to ask for the feature in-person, it's not available on-line - but you CAN get it. Just go ask the local Genius about your need for a new MBP with the Wheel and they'll nod knowingly that you are a REAL Apple fan, and take you to the special back counter to order your own MBP with the Wheel.

    • The developers do what management says.
      Management does what sales says.
      Sales like to show off fancy thin shiny computers

      Also the developers at Apple are probably not the ones designing the hardware. I would see what the design engineers are using.

  • If you have only the laptop and it's built in keyboard, extended typing will not be a great experience. I know it sucks to have to carry a keyboard with you, but grab an HHKB or an Anne Pro and save your wrists the pain.

  • Preach it Brothers! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:06PM (#59712042) Homepage

    The current keyboards are the main reason why I'm holding off buying a couple-three new MacBook Airs. They really are poor.

    The other issues are:
    - No traditional USB ports (why should I have to carry around a USB-C to a traditional USB-A adapter if I want to plug in a thumb drive?)
    - They took away the SD Card port. See previous.

    I love my MacBook Air 2012 and I'm going to keep it going (new battery, looking for a new backlight) before I consider a new one.

    • Re:Preach it Brothers! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by fred6666 ( 4718031 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:19PM (#59712130)

      Wait, you choose to vendor lock-in yourself in the walled garden and then you complain about lack of choice? The Macbook air is probably the icon of the thin and no port laptop. And now you complain it doesn't have enough ports.

      Just get something else if you don't like it.

      • Just get something else if you don't like it.
        Your reading comprehension sucks. He is complaining that there is nothing else. Hence he is waiting till they build a new/better one, just like I am waiting.

        • The Macs are just Intel PCs running a different OS. For the most part, OS X will run on regular PC hardware [hackint0sh.org]. It's only Apple's license for OS X which makes it technically a copyright violation. But personally, I believe if a copyright holder is deliberately limiting the software to inferior hardware, it should be within your rights as a paying end-user to run it on better hardware. Licensing should cover whether or not you're allowed to use the software, not how you're allowed to use it or what you run

    • What happened with the backlight? Iâ(TM)m nursing along two 2011 MBAirs, and still love them. The lack of software updates concerns me (I know there are solutions to allow the installation of the current MacOS, but I prefer to stick to factory supported stuff when possible).

      • Not very bright any more. In the Apple Store, it was regarded as an aging issue - something I will deal with when I replace the battery (it's life has gone down to just a couple of hours).

        I got mine in 2013 so it's a 2012 model.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      DItto with Pro 2012 and 2008. Hopefully, 2016 and newer will be cheaper when needed.

  • Courage! (Score:2, Funny)

    by kamapuaa ( 555446 )

    I strongly prefer Macbook keyboards. Going back to a desktop keyboard feels so clunky to me. I actually held on to an old Macbook Air longer than I should have because the new keyboard seemed so weird, but after a few days it felt far more natural...

    I guess there's reliability issues, but in two years of not being particularly careful (and eating at the desk LOL), my macbook hasn't given me any issues.

    I feel like this is an issues Slashdot is hyping up because for some reason there is a weird anti-Apple b

  • Why are Apple fans so shocked that people use laptops away from a desk and may not want to carry a bag full of peripherals with them? Why does it matter how often they do it? It's nice to have a working keyboard if you go away from your desk three times a year.
  • This is just what always happens when you put your entire faith and trust into a single company and buy all of your products from them - especially when there are TONS of options that are better. There are thousands of options for a keyboard from the combination of caps, switches, and other little features. Apple has NEVER used high quality switches, and these scissor-switches look even worse. So, what did we learn? If you are a WRITER, and you keep choosing Apple as your go to product but then complaining

  • All laptop keyboard are bad (Score:3)

    by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:33PM (#59712232)
    Most of my computers are laptops, but I would never use their keyboards for any more than a very brief period of time. Having the keyboard and the monitor so close to each other is not healthy, no matter if you put it relatively high or low. Either your neck is bent forward way too much, or you have to hold your arms up in the air to type. I don't have Model M's at all of my desks, but even a cheap-o keyboard is a million times better than typing on a laptop just due to the fact that the display can be put up significantly higher than the keyboard.

    I learned all this after having a very painful, chronic neck/spine condition that was caused by typing on laptop keyboards for an extended period of time. It was fixed with physical therapy, and is prevented by using a real keyboard.

    • Are you an Orang Uthan? Or some Alien?

      Since 2004 I basically only use laptops .... or is it actually 2001 ... what was the first PowerPC 17" Apple Laptop?

  • I was recently in the market for a new laptop and went to see the new MacBook Pro 16". I had the idea that the touch bar was just a gimmick, but seeing it in action made me reconsider, But I absolutely hated the so-called improved keyboard, which has minimal key travel and tactile feedback. So I ordered another ThinkPad, my third in a row.

    • If you think the new 16" MacBook Pro has minimal key travel, you obviously never tried the previous MacBooks with those horrible butterfly keys. You really need to experience it, even if it's only for a few minutes in a store.

  • Laptops are not for continuous use (Score:3)

    by hackertourist ( 2202674 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @03:51PM (#59712376)

    The laptop form factor is very convenient for some uses, but its ergnomics are not suited for fulltime use. If you use a laptop all day long, chances are you're doing most of that work in one place. That place should be comfortable:

    - large monitors positioned just below eye level and at optimum reading distance
    - high-quality keyboard positioned so your upper arms are vertical and forearms are horizontal and supported well, and there's no neck and shoulder strain

    Those two requirements rule out all laptops. So you plug in an external keyboard, mouse and monitors.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gosand ( 234100 )

      The laptop form factor is very convenient for some uses, but its ergnomics are not suited for fulltime use. If you use a laptop all day long, chances are you're doing most of that work in one place. That place should be comfortable:

      - large monitors positioned just below eye level and at optimum reading distance
      - high-quality keyboard positioned so your upper arms are vertical and forearms are horizontal and supported well, and there's no neck and shoulder strain

      Those two requirements rule out all laptops. So you plug in an external keyboard, mouse and monitors.

      I use my laptop all day at work, every day, because that is what corporate says everyone gets. Of course, it's docked and I use an external keyboard, wireless mouse, and have two 24" monitors. :D

      I have to take it home every day, or security will snatch it and I have to retrieve it from them the next day. If I need to work from home for whatever reason, I have it with me. But I dock it at home, and use my KVM and my two monitors.

      I see some people sitting in various placed of the building on their laptops.

  • Finally, something worth watching the Oscars for!

  • Pose (Score:2)

    by tsa ( 15680 )

    "And what happens is you open the laptop and you're like this (makes uncomfortable hunched-over-laptop pose)..."

    There's your problem. A laptop isn't made to work all day long on a desk on. It's just not ergonomic enough for that. You need a PC if you want to type all day.

    And Apple's butterfly keyboards are the reason I still have my trusty 2011 13" MBP. Apple is remarkably good at making rubbish hardware interfaces. Their mice have always been utter crap and their keyboards were never better than 'good,' an

  • Apple has fixed the keyboard, and is going to roll it out to other models.

    So to me it seems kind of strange to waste further energy complaining.

  • Siri what is a keyboard ? (Score:3)

    by spinitch ( 1033676 ) on Monday February 10, 2020 @08:34PM (#59713964)
    Nothing Punkin Puss, Siri can transcribe for you.
  • These low travel keys really are instruments of torture! Holy Mary mother of God, the keyboard is one of the few areas of human contact with the computer, make it amazing to use and you've drastically changed the overall experience of using the laptop.
  • I was working late in the open-plan office one evening when I heard a bang-bang-bang. I looked up, thought code-range, but couldn't see any likely culprits so I returned to staring at the screen. Bang-Bang-Bang! I looked around but there was nothing to see. BANG-BANG-BANG! This time I saw! It was a cleaner turning over each keyboard in turn and slamming it on the desk to knock out the biscuit crumbs. That's what I call slamming a keyboard.

  • The use case for laptops has shrunk so low nowadays that there can't be may needs for it nowadays.

    You need them for...

    • If you spend your working days at Starbucks
    • You need remote access to somewhere that's hyper locked down
    • You need a status symbol and have money (or someone else's money) to burn

    A lot of visiting engineers/repair people now have tablets, some with keyboards in the case.. Some of them use Web apps, some look to be using RDP or other remote control. Sales reps seem to be similar but I try and

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