Apple's Activation Lock Will Make It Very Difficult To Refurbish Macs (ifixit.com) 178
Apple's Activation Lock is an anti-theft feature built into iOS, watchOS, and macOS Catalina that prevents people from restoring your Apple devices without your permission. "With the release of macOS Catalina earlier this fall, any Mac that's equipped with Apple's new T2 security chip now comes with Activation Lock," writes iFixit's Craig Lloyd. What this means is that there will likely be thousands of perfectly good Macs being parted out or scrapped instead of being put into the hands of people who could really use them. From the report: Activation Lock was designed to prevent anyone else from using your device if it's ever lost or stolen, and it's built into the "Find My" service on iPhones, iPads, and other Apple devices. When you're getting rid of an old phone, you want to use Apple's Reset feature to wipe the phone clean, which also removes it from Find My iPhone and gets rid of the Activation Lock. But if you forget, and sell your old iPhone to a friend before you properly wipe it, the phone will just keep asking them for your Apple ID before they can set it up as a new phone. In other words, they won't be able to do much with it besides scrap it for parts.
That seems like a nice way to thwart tech thieves, but it also causes unnecessary chaos for recyclers and refurbishers who are wading through piles of locked devices they can't reuse. This reduces the supply of refurbished devices, making them more expensive -- oh, and it's an environmental nightmare. [...] The T2 security chip, however, erases any hope and makes it impossible to do anything on a Mac without the proper Apple ID credentials. Attempting any kind of hardware tinkering on a T2-enabled Mac activates a hardware lock, which can only be undone by connecting the device to Apple-authorized repair software. It's great for device security, but terrible for repair and refurbishment. While recyclers may not be dealing with as many locked Macs as locked iPhones (especially since Activation Lock on Macs is still very new, and there are specific software criteria that need to be met), it's only a matter of time before thousands upon thousands of perfectly working Macs are scrapped or shredded, for lack of an unknown password.
That seems like a nice way to thwart tech thieves, but it also causes unnecessary chaos for recyclers and refurbishers who are wading through piles of locked devices they can't reuse. This reduces the supply of refurbished devices, making them more expensive -- oh, and it's an environmental nightmare. [...] The T2 security chip, however, erases any hope and makes it impossible to do anything on a Mac without the proper Apple ID credentials. Attempting any kind of hardware tinkering on a T2-enabled Mac activates a hardware lock, which can only be undone by connecting the device to Apple-authorized repair software. It's great for device security, but terrible for repair and refurbishment. While recyclers may not be dealing with as many locked Macs as locked iPhones (especially since Activation Lock on Macs is still very new, and there are specific software criteria that need to be met), it's only a matter of time before thousands upon thousands of perfectly working Macs are scrapped or shredded, for lack of an unknown password.
âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:5, Insightful)
If youâ(TM)re selling or donating your old Mac, you should be wiping it anyway. Does it make it a pain if you donâ(TM)t (or canâ(TM)t) do so? Sure, but the summary makes it out to be a bigger problem than it is, IMHO.
Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:2)
Well that looks like complete garbage now doesnâ(TM)t it? My fault or Slashdotâ(TM)s?
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It's Slashdot. The best unicode handling 2003 can provide!
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People have explained this problem and I still don't understand how it only affects this one single website out of billions. Literally nobody else has this problem, no one.
Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Could we at least pretend we don't wantonly produce trash for the sake of producing trash?
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Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:5, Insightful)
Grandma forgot her password.
Or, perhaps, Grandma is dead.
Working in software support this does come up from time to time. Someone calls in looking to get access to files but the only person with the password is dead. Well, sorry, the reason our software is considered secure is because only the owner has access. I know it's exceedingly inconvenient for you that you cannot access the very valuable files from the deceased but company policy, and quite possibly laws on this, prevent me from granting access unless I get the correct information. It's not that I will not grant access, I CAN NOT grant access because of how the system was built.
I'm liking this Apple security. This comes with costs but the security it offers is worth it to me.
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This doesn't really offer *data security* though. Nobody is asking for the data on these devices. They're perfectly happy to wipe them clean.
This is strictly an arbitrary denial to re-use the hardware. Now it definitely does have an anti-theft component. But the number of stolen computers is relatively low compared to the number that get retired and donated/recycled.
My wife used to manage the mobile assets for a midsize company. And it was regular issue that some former employee or other had tied a phone to
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Apple's Activation Lock is an anti-theft feature built into iOS, watchOS, and macOS
it should say:
Apple's Activation Lock is an anti- first-sale-doctrine mechanism built into iOS, watchOS, and macOS by Apple, the culmination of their long-standing policy on preventing third-party repairs and refurbishment
Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, you can sell, give away or do wahtever you want with your device. There's a very vibrant used market for Apple products. In fact, it's probably even more vibrant because if you do get a used device, it likely isn't a stolen device.
You just have to remove the lock prior to selling it, of which there are plenty of instructions online on how to prepare your device for resale. There are two ways - one involves removing the link to iCloud, the other is wiping the device, both of which require you to enter in your iCloud password and will unlock your device for resale so the next owner can set it up as if it was new. There's also a way to do it on Apple's website should you accidentally forget and the buyer asks you to remove it.
If someone should liberate you from your device without your permission, you can initiate a remote wipe which would not disable the lock. In this case the thief would have nothing more than a useless brick worth very little money.
Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:2)
Most relevant parts (motherboard, display, touch buttons) are likewise locked out. You have to unlock the device before parting it out, stolen parts won't work.
Re:Dead password owner (Score:4, Informative)
your scenario is a fringe case that has nothing to do with what the person you are replying to was talking about. he was responding to someone claiming this security measure was an anti-first sale doctrine move. the general case of being able to resale an apple device is not harmed by this security measure.
I'm more thinking about what will happen when most of the dead laptop owners have better password strategies).
Hopefully Apple will eventually setup proper procedures:
- death certificate + locked laptop brought to service center = apple will perform a full unlock+whipe at their service center.
this procedure already exists. if you have proof of death and know the icloud account, apple will remove the activation lock for you. you should then be able to reset the phone.
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Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:3)
That's already the case, the problem is when the user hasn't given permission to reuse the hardware (eg theft). This is a tempest in a teapot for clicks, it's working as intended, if you buy something, the owner can always unlock it.
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People have explained this problem and I still don't understand how it only affects this one single website out of billions. Literally nobody else has this problem, no one.
Short version: It's not a bug, it's a feature. Slashdot doesn't want people posting in Chinese or filling the site with weird symbols.
Should they add code to translate the gobbledigook produced by Apple devices into ordinary apostrophes? Nah, fuck 'em. Make 'em look like idiots, I say. This is a geek site and anybody who thinks Apple's "smart formatting" is aesthic doesn't belong here. Just turn it off in your settings and you'll be fine.
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People have explained this problem and I still don't understand how it only affects this one single manufacturer. Literally nobody else has this problem, no one.
FTFY.
Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:2)
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The problem isnt slashdot. Its apple.
smae thing when I sell my car or house or padlock (Score:5, Insightful)
I need to give them the keys. SO whup--tee--doo the buyer needs to ask for the keys. The buyer need to make sure you reset it before accepting the sale.
THis is not a big deal and actually will improve the resale value of macs since there won't be any stolen ones on the market soon.
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With your house or car or padlock, people know they need supply the keys to a buyer. Not many people would think about that for a laptop.
Also with your house or your car, there are ways around a missing key - sometimes expensive, but usually a small fraction of what the item is worth. Here, the solution for a lost key could cost more than the device.
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You don't buy a car without starting it and taking it for a test drive. You don't buy a house without opening it up and walking inside. You don't buy a laptop without turning it on to make sure the damn thing works.
You cannot turn on a computer if it's being purchased online (eBay, online forum classified section/marketplace, etc.)
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Re: smae thing when I sell my car or house or padl (Score:2)
You still have to prove to the car manufacturer that you own the car, random people can't just run up to them and ask for a key to your car. Same here, if you can get Apple proof of purchase, they'll unlock it for you.
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WTF? Are you serious?
Step one of retiring ANY device, no matter who makes it; and whether I'm recycling it, giving it to a friend, or selling the thing; is to sign it out of any and all accounts and wipe the storage clean. Steps two and three are to verify that I have, in fact done so correctly, and then to double-check again to make damn sure there's not a shred of anything personal on the thing. Signing fully out of iCloud, including "find my", and changing my iCloud password just in case, is part of tha
Re: smae thing when I sell my car or house or padl (Score:3)
Yes! It's like folks just bought a car from someone but forgot to ask them for the key fob. They only drove down the block before the car came to a stop with a bewildered driver.
I vividly remember the days when folks would grab an iPad out of someone's hands and run off. Now? Not only can you track where the tablet goes, but it's useless when trying to sell for "half price" to some mark.
For me, I'd much rather have the occasional phone lost to parts than rebuild the stolen device market that Apple has alrea
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Yes! It's like folks just bought a car from someone but forgot to ask them for the key fob. They only drove down the block before the car came to a stop with a bewildered driver.
If you buy a used car and need keys, you can take the title to the dealer and get a new key. Then you can take that key and use it to get cheaper keys from someone else. That analogy doesn't hold up unless Apple will unlock the device for you if you can prove that you own it. Let's say you default on a debt and your macs are seized as payment of the debt. Now someone else rightfully owns them. Will Apple unlock the machines for them? Or do they have to sue you again to get the unlocking keys?
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No it's simple. Having your Mac seized does not absolve you of the debt. Having your Mac seized and then it being sold on for more than you owe absolves you of the debt.
If you have a debt of $1,000 and your Mac is worth $1,000 unlocked or $200 locked (because of parts value), then it is clearly in your own interest to unlock it. You've lost the Mac anyway and if you refuse to unlock it, they're going to need to take an extra $800 of your stuff as well.
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The binding it not the key in the owner's head, it's a binding to their iCloud account in a backend somewhere that says "mr morbo owns device with SN=xxxxx".
The owner can log into the backend service (via a web interface) and relinquish control over the device.
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How can an IOS device do this (phone home) if;-
1) it has no SIM card (if it is a phone or enabled iPad)
or
2) no WiFi credientials?
Care to explain?
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It can't, and you won't be able to get through the Welcome/Setup process. This is not new.
Re: Wiping the device is not enough (Score:2)
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What happens if a deceased family member/relative has an Apple device with activation lock? How would you unlock it to do a wipe/restore to put the device to personal use or resell it?
Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:2)
You either have all family members share their login information, or you lose what's on the device.
Some people DON'T want their family to have access to their private files under any circumstances. Others who are security minded give part of the password to one person and the other half to another to use in case of death or incapacitation.
It's like a will: not every has one, but everyone should.
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You could always put details in your will that explain what to do with your devices (and who gets what) and contains (or references something else that contains) the necessary credentials to make that happen.
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Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:2)
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Being logged in with an Apple ID doesn't stop the wipe from working; but when the device comes back up you cannot progress through setting it up as a new system without being able to provide the correct password for the Apple ID that was logged in when it was wiped.
Since its de
A Variation on Dell's Goodwill Ploy (Score:4, Interesting)
That sounds like a variation of Dell's Goodwill ploy.
You can donate any used PC to your local Goodwill store, but they have a policy and an agreement with Dell that it will never be sold in the store. Instead it will be 'recycled' and destroyed.
Dell wants to sell new PCs, you see.
You can get really nice current keyboards, mice and some displays at the Goodwill. Any time you see a really nice one, you can be assured that there's a PC back there in a bin that they won't sell you.
It IS Apple! (Score:4, Insightful)
Just my 2 cents
Fuck Apple (Score:3, Insightful)
It is past time for strong, federal right to repair laws but the government is completely owned by corporations.
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It is past time for strong, federal right to repair laws but the government is completely owned by corporations.
Actually, government is the superhero of corporations. Complete with superpowers.
And leftists (Score:2)
The left love them some government.
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Re:Fuck Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
Dipshit.
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You couldn't wait to say "Fuck Apple" so bad that you didn't even read the summary.... sure no one does. Hint: this has nothing to do with right-to-repair.
It doesn't affect repairs where the same user is getting it back, but it's pretty much a death knell for anyone buying broken Macs to fix them. Imagine the power supply/display/keyboard is broken and the user don't think it's worth the price of an official repair but today they can probably get a few bucks from scavengers buying them to mix parts and produce a few working ones. But once it's fixed it's still locked and you have to get hold of the seller again to unlock it, which he couldn't do as long as it
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I would never buy a laptop (Mac or otherwise) off eBay or some dumb marketplace site/forum. It has a decent probability of being stolen, broken, or fucked off.
If clueless fucks are still falling for the Nigerian Prince, then maybe it's time they get their shit together and leave the rest of us move on with technology that helps protect our data and hardware.
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So when you sell your car you don’t give the buyer your keys? What about your home? What about your PC? You tell the buyer to fuck off?
I bought a house without the keys, you moron. Also cars without keys. No big deal.
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You missed the whole point. If some guy is trying to sell you a car and doesn’t have the keys, you don’t think twice about it?
I did think twice about it, which is why I bought stuff on auction.
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If you can reflash an iphone for more ram (Score:3)
You can probably reset a T2 chip to it's default unlocked state. For reference, a guy in China upgraded his iPhones's ram.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Around 24:50 he's reflashing something on the phone so the newly installed ram can be recognized. Not simple, doesn't look easy, but it does look do-able. I'm sure the same can be done to T2 chips.
hardware tinkering?? so in mac pro any non apple (Score:2)
hardware tinkering?? so in mac pro any non apple pci-e cards / cpus or maybe ram will trip that?
Most used computers aren't resold (Score:3)
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Linux in the early days got a huge boost from the fact that people had older machines to install it on and check it out. I had a whole network of Linux boxes at one point, installed on anything with a 386 or better processor that I could come up with.
not that upsetting (Score:2)
I really want to hate apple here but i cant. They are making things much more secure. If i had a portable device with my lifes info on it, I would make damn sure it was encrypted to all hell and back. I would probably desire a charge inside it that i could activate remotely to blow up the device.
All that will happen in reality (not fear-mongering) is that the 2nd hand buyer needs to verify that the device is unlocked before purchasing. If they don't, they will probably only make that mistake once. (like buy
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oh i guess i misread that. Applies to PC's as well.
My point was more directed at portable devices, but honestly in a few years, they will be the same OS on all apple products, so its not unexpected. And probably windows will follow suit as well now that everyone knows they can get away with phoning home as much, and for any reason, as they want.
Macs are almost as irreparable as phones these days. Again par the course for the direction apple has been heading in for 20 or more years. More right to repair laws
Just wait a sec. (Score:2)
I'm ok with stolen devices being less valuable (Score:4, Insightful)
I really fine with my device being worth a lot less when stolen and with my data being more protected. Let them go steal an Android device or PC.
First tier trade in shops will be forced to due diligence if the 2nd tier resellers refuse to buy or pay significantly less for locked devices.
Data security is more important. (Score:3)
The cost of hardware is trivial compared to (some) data getting into the wrong hands. Security requires excluding unauthorized users. If this bothers you, buy a different product and vote with your wallet.
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I don't give keys out to the cars I sell. Suckers! (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, wait. Most people aren't that stupid.
Factual nonsense again (Score:3)
Factually untrue. The phone will keep asking for the owner's AppleID until that owner goes to iCloud.com and removes the device. This will unlock it so that it can be claimed by the next owner. They don't even need physical access to the device (or indeed any Apple device) to do it -- it's available both natively and via a web service.
Perhaps try looking stuff up [apple.com]?
Apple computers have peaked. (Score:2)
I decided to not get a new Apple last generation. To expensive, to much lock in, software quality declining, keyboard disaster, etc. I do miss some tools that run on macOS, but no way am I going to Shell out 2000â for a regular powered Ultrabook these days.
It's a shame, but sticking with Apple hardware simply isn't reasonable anymore.
Too Late (Score:2)
Call it what it is. Lock-in. (Score:2)
This is basically a giant swipe at right to repair and third party repair.
So when the retards at the "Genius Bar" tell you your Mac is toast and that you need to spend another $3000 for a new one, when the problem is a $100 part that's easily replaceable by somebody with the proper equipment...
Well, now they won't be able to simply fix the damn thing and let you go.
Nope. Now you're on the hook for a full price replacement to fill Apple's pockets...
Fuck Apple.
Re: Call it what it is. Lock-in. (Score:3)
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Unlock before selling (Score:2)
"But if you forget, and sell your old iPhone to a friend before you properly wipe it, the phone will just keep asking them for your Apple ID before they can set it up as a new phone. "
Then you tell your friend who bought it from you to bring the iPhone over, login with your Apple ID and unlock it so they can properly wipe it.
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It's no surprise that under the guise of security, Apple will end up selling more devices because the used ones won't be usable. Not a surprise at all.
Had your hategasm? Wiped down your computer monitor, have you? Thinking straight again? Ok, let's take a close look. According to TFS:
But if you forget, and sell your old iPhone to a friend before you properly wipe it, the phone will just keep asking them for your Apple ID before they can set it up as a new phone. In other words, they won't be able to do much with it besides scrap it for parts.
Remarkably enough, this is already a thing on Apple devices and has been for a very long time, all this chip does is lock it down a bit more. Nobody buys an Apple device without checking the damn Find my iPhone thing has been disabled and the device removed from the sellers iCloud account because you are in for a major pain in the ass if you don't. This is always the last thi
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I work in IT and I can tell you that people do in fact still buy Apple devices w/o checking out anything about them first.
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will end up selling more devices because the used ones won't be usable
Apple had someone sing a song about it: That's the way I like it [youtu.be].
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If there was an easily exploitable loophole, you'd be screaming about Apple's fake security. So which is it? This is actually what strong security looks like, or Apple is just trolling to kill the used phone market?
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So let me get this straight: your friend when purchasing used locked equipment didn’t bother to get the original owner to unlock/wipe said equipment as he is purchasing it? Is that like buying a car without asking for the keys and just assuming you can get a locksmith to unlock it later?
No, it's more like you don't understand how the surplus electronics business works. These places don't generally buy single quantities from indivuduals; they bid on large mixed lots of items, sight unseen. Then they go through the items, separating what''s sellable from what's not. Things that don't work, but would be worth good money if they did, get a once-over from a tech to see if they can be fixed cheaply and easily.
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So he bought items in bulk assuming that they were unlocked and was upset that they were in fact not unlocked. Those phones could have been stolen. Does the term “buyer beware” mean anything?
No one said anything about assumptions, or about being upset. Well, no one but you, that is. Most of the phones on the used markets come from trade-in programs run by carriers and manufacturers. What did you think they did with the trade-ins?
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No one said anything about assumptions, or about being upset. Well, no one but you, that is. Most of the phones on the used markets come from trade-in programs run by carriers and manufacturers. What did you think they did with the trade-ins?
Please scroll up. The OP said: "I had a close friend that worked at a second hand electronics store . . " and not from the carrier or manufacturer. In fact you are making the assumption that they came from trade-ins. As for trade-ins I would assume that on a trade-in, the purchaser would ask the owner to unlock and wipe their phones before they would give them credit for it unless the purchaser didn't care what happened to said like it was going to be recycled for parts. But those are my assumptions.
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Incorrect. My friend was tasked with selling I-cloud locked devices in his inventory. Full stop. I can't speak for the transaction details on the incoming end, but It's not a secret that second hand electronics in places such as those are of dubious origin to say the least.
Re:Huge problem for mobile devices (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Huge problem for mobile devices (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a close friend that worked at a second hand electronics store. I would help him from time to time with problematic PCs, and testing of video cards and other such hardware. The MASSIVE amount of icloud locked iphones completely blew my mind. He asked me to look at them every time I was there. Sorry, nothing I can do. Sell them for parts.
Doing the same thing to personal computers is just bananas. At least the parts are worth a little more.
There is more than one way to kill a used market. This is one of the worst ways.
Next time Apple signals about how they are working against climate change, remember the way they force second hand devices into the scrap bin.
And since I'm already ranting.... The next time I see some clown going on about free HK, and the evils of china- while sitting in front of (or talking on) an I-Device, I'm gonna blow a damn fuse.
Either your friend's "second hand" electronics store was accepting stolen goods, or it did not have proper procedures in place ensure that all devices accepted were completely unlocked and clean. Either way not apples fault. Be more savvy.
Did you develop a procedure for accepting 2nd hand Apple products for your friends store? I guess there was something you could have done after all.
Want to sell / buy stolen goods? Fuck you , that might have been mine.
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The next time I see some clown going on about free HK, and the evils of china- while sitting in front of (or talking on) an I-Device, I'm gonna blow a damn fuse.
So, only Android users are allowed to talk about free HK?
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Sorry, nothing I can do. Sell them for parts.
Possible side effect of the new policy: Third-party repairs for Macs will be available at just above the cost of the required labor, since spare Mac parts will be extremely cheap and easy to come by.
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You've obviously never tried to deal with Apple as a business.
They have literally ZERO interest in anything that you would expect. Repairs is certainly not even on their list of "fob them off". Education they pay only lip-service to.
Literally, expect NO HELP whatsoever from Apple in any way.
And everyone who tells me that they "have AppleCare" or "will take it to the Apple shop" basically ends up buying a new device.
Source: Manage IT at a school that had iPads for every pupil, iPhones for staff and suite
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You don't need to use a previously saved wifi network.
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