Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Desktops (Apple) Portables (Apple) Security Apple Hardware Technology

Apple's Activation Lock Will Make It Very Difficult To Refurbish Macs (ifixit.com) 178

Posted by BeauHD from the recycling-roadblock dept.
Apple's Activation Lock is an anti-theft feature built into iOS, watchOS, and macOS Catalina that prevents people from restoring your Apple devices without your permission. "With the release of macOS Catalina earlier this fall, any Mac that's equipped with Apple's new T2 security chip now comes with Activation Lock," writes iFixit's Craig Lloyd. What this means is that there will likely be thousands of perfectly good Macs being parted out or scrapped instead of being put into the hands of people who could really use them. From the report: Activation Lock was designed to prevent anyone else from using your device if it's ever lost or stolen, and it's built into the "Find My" service on iPhones, iPads, and other Apple devices. When you're getting rid of an old phone, you want to use Apple's Reset feature to wipe the phone clean, which also removes it from Find My iPhone and gets rid of the Activation Lock. But if you forget, and sell your old iPhone to a friend before you properly wipe it, the phone will just keep asking them for your Apple ID before they can set it up as a new phone. In other words, they won't be able to do much with it besides scrap it for parts.

That seems like a nice way to thwart tech thieves, but it also causes unnecessary chaos for recyclers and refurbishers who are wading through piles of locked devices they can't reuse. This reduces the supply of refurbished devices, making them more expensive -- oh, and it's an environmental nightmare. [...] The T2 security chip, however, erases any hope and makes it impossible to do anything on a Mac without the proper Apple ID credentials. Attempting any kind of hardware tinkering on a T2-enabled Mac activates a hardware lock, which can only be undone by connecting the device to Apple-authorized repair software. It's great for device security, but terrible for repair and refurbishment. While recyclers may not be dealing with as many locked Macs as locked iPhones (especially since Activation Lock on Macs is still very new, and there are specific software criteria that need to be met), it's only a matter of time before thousands upon thousands of perfectly working Macs are scrapped or shredded, for lack of an unknown password.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Apple's Activation Lock Will Make It Very Difficult To Refurbish Macs More

Apple's Activation Lock Will Make It Very Difficult To Refurbish Macs

Comments Filter:

  • âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by frdmfghtr ( 603968 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:15PM (#59485936)

    If youâ(TM)re selling or donating your old Mac, you should be wiping it anyway. Does it make it a pain if you donâ(TM)t (or canâ(TM)t) do so? Sure, but the summary makes it out to be a bigger problem than it is, IMHO.

    • Well that looks like complete garbage now doesnâ(TM)t it? My fault or Slashdotâ(TM)s?

      • It's Slashdot. The best unicode handling 2003 can provide!

        • People have explained this problem and I still don't understand how it only affects this one single website out of billions. Literally nobody else has this problem, no one.

          • Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:5, Interesting)

            by saloomy ( 2817221 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:36PM (#59486152)
            This seems like such a moot point to contend with. Is the author really opining that devices should be left hackable and reusable to thieves to prevent a small handful of them being unusable by legitimate second hand owners because they couldn't ask for the original owner to unlock the device first? Thats just stupid. If you properly came into ownership, you'd ask the original owner for proof of functionality before paying for it. Duh.
            • Think about it in terms of liquidating an office. By the time the liquidator is involved the company that owned the hardware may not exist anymore let alone be able to properly wipe all the devices they used to own. Not a big deal for individual person to person sales but a huge pain for companies that obtain and refurbish in bulk.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Macrat ( 638047 )
              Grandma forgot her password.

              • Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:5, Insightful)

                by blindseer ( 891256 ) <blindseer@earthli[ ]net ['nk.' in gap]> on Thursday December 05, 2019 @04:49AM (#59486956)

                Grandma forgot her password.

                Or, perhaps, Grandma is dead.

                Working in software support this does come up from time to time. Someone calls in looking to get access to files but the only person with the password is dead. Well, sorry, the reason our software is considered secure is because only the owner has access. I know it's exceedingly inconvenient for you that you cannot access the very valuable files from the deceased but company policy, and quite possibly laws on this, prevent me from granting access unless I get the correct information. It's not that I will not grant access, I CAN NOT grant access because of how the system was built.

                I'm liking this Apple security. This comes with costs but the security it offers is worth it to me.

                • Re: (Score:3)

                  by vux984 ( 928602 )

                  This doesn't really offer *data security* though. Nobody is asking for the data on these devices. They're perfectly happy to wipe them clean.

                  This is strictly an arbitrary denial to re-use the hardware. Now it definitely does have an anti-theft component. But the number of stolen computers is relatively low compared to the number that get retired and donated/recycled.

                  My wife used to manage the mobile assets for a midsize company. And it was regular issue that some former employee or other had tied a phone to

            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 )
              The summary also has some of the details wrong, instead of:

              Apple's Activation Lock is an anti-theft feature built into iOS, watchOS, and macOS

              it should say:

              Apple's Activation Lock is an anti- first-sale-doctrine mechanism built into iOS, watchOS, and macOS by Apple, the culmination of their long-standing policy on preventing third-party repairs and refurbishment

              • Re: âoeVeryâ difficult? (Score:4, Insightful)

                by tlhIngan ( 30335 ) <slashdot@worf.ERDOSnet minus math_god> on Thursday December 05, 2019 @04:34AM (#59486946)

                it should say:

                Apple's Activation Lock is an anti- first-sale-doctrine mechanism built into iOS, watchOS, and macOS by Apple, the culmination of their long-standing policy on preventing third-party repairs and refurbishment

                No, you can sell, give away or do wahtever you want with your device. There's a very vibrant used market for Apple products. In fact, it's probably even more vibrant because if you do get a used device, it likely isn't a stolen device.

                You just have to remove the lock prior to selling it, of which there are plenty of instructions online on how to prepare your device for resale. There are two ways - one involves removing the link to iCloud, the other is wiping the device, both of which require you to enter in your iCloud password and will unlock your device for resale so the next owner can set it up as if it was new. There's also a way to do it on Apple's website should you accidentally forget and the buyer asks you to remove it.

                If someone should liberate you from your device without your permission, you can initiate a remote wipe which would not disable the lock. In this case the thief would have nothing more than a useless brick worth very little money.

            • Make the encryption pertain only to the storage itself, make the storage itself able to be wiped or replaced by a new user. Data remains secure, hardware can be reused.

              • That's already the case, the problem is when the user hasn't given permission to reuse the hardware (eg theft). This is a tempest in a teapot for clicks, it's working as intended, if you buy something, the owner can always unlock it.

                • What if you find the hardware in the garbage? I've found many good computers just thrown away -- isn't it better that they be used than turned into e-waste? Of course, the real reason isn't theft, it's about more money for Tim Cuckitty-Cuck's bottom line...

          • People have explained this problem and I still don't understand how it only affects this one single website out of billions. Literally nobody else has this problem, no one.

            Short version: It's not a bug, it's a feature. Slashdot doesn't want people posting in Chinese or filling the site with weird symbols.

            Should they add code to translate the gobbledigook produced by Apple devices into ordinary apostrophes? Nah, fuck 'em. Make 'em look like idiots, I say. This is a geek site and anybody who thinks Apple's "smart formatting" is aesthic doesn't belong here. Just turn it off in your settings and you'll be fine.

          • People have explained this problem and I still don't understand how it only affects this one single manufacturer. Literally nobody else has this problem, no one.

            FTFY.

      • Itâ(TM)s Slashdot. You edited it on mobile didnâ(TM)t you?
        • People say slashdot is the only site this happens on, but it also only happens to users of a single mobile platform.

          The problem isnt slashdot. Its apple.

    • smae thing when I sell my car or house or padlock (Score:5, Insightful)

      by goombah99 ( 560566 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:23PM (#59485960)

      I need to give them the keys. SO whup--tee--doo the buyer needs to ask for the keys. The buyer need to make sure you reset it before accepting the sale.

      THis is not a big deal and actually will improve the resale value of macs since there won't be any stolen ones on the market soon.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ly4 ( 2353328 )

        With your house or car or padlock, people know they need supply the keys to a buyer. Not many people would think about that for a laptop.

        Also with your house or your car, there are ways around a missing key - sometimes expensive, but usually a small fraction of what the item is worth. Here, the solution for a lost key could cost more than the device.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by saloomy ( 2817221 )
          You don't buy a car without starting it and taking it for a test drive. You don't buy a house without opening it up and walking inside. You don't buy a laptop without turning it on to make sure the damn thing works.

          • You don't buy a car without starting it and taking it for a test drive. You don't buy a house without opening it up and walking inside. You don't buy a laptop without turning it on to make sure the damn thing works.

            You cannot turn on a computer if it's being purchased online (eBay, online forum classified section/marketplace, etc.)

        • Yes you can find a locksmith but as a purchaser shouldn’t you be at least somewhat suspicious if the seller doesn’t have the key?

        • You still have to prove to the car manufacturer that you own the car, random people can't just run up to them and ask for a key to your car. Same here, if you can get Apple proof of purchase, they'll unlock it for you.

        • WTF? Are you serious?

          Step one of retiring ANY device, no matter who makes it; and whether I'm recycling it, giving it to a friend, or selling the thing; is to sign it out of any and all accounts and wipe the storage clean. Steps two and three are to verify that I have, in fact done so correctly, and then to double-check again to make damn sure there's not a shred of anything personal on the thing. Signing fully out of iCloud, including "find my", and changing my iCloud password just in case, is part of tha

      • Yes! It's like folks just bought a car from someone but forgot to ask them for the key fob. They only drove down the block before the car came to a stop with a bewildered driver.

        I vividly remember the days when folks would grab an iPad out of someone's hands and run off. Now? Not only can you track where the tablet goes, but it's useless when trying to sell for "half price" to some mark.

        For me, I'd much rather have the occasional phone lost to parts than rebuild the stolen device market that Apple has alrea

        • Yes! It's like folks just bought a car from someone but forgot to ask them for the key fob. They only drove down the block before the car came to a stop with a bewildered driver.

          If you buy a used car and need keys, you can take the title to the dealer and get a new key. Then you can take that key and use it to get cheaper keys from someone else. That analogy doesn't hold up unless Apple will unlock the device for you if you can prove that you own it. Let's say you default on a debt and your macs are seized as payment of the debt. Now someone else rightfully owns them. Will Apple unlock the machines for them? Or do they have to sue you again to get the unlocking keys?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jeremyp ( 130771 )

            No it's simple. Having your Mac seized does not absolve you of the debt. Having your Mac seized and then it being sold on for more than you owe absolves you of the debt.

            If you have a debt of $1,000 and your Mac is worth $1,000 unlocked or $200 locked (because of parts value), then it is clearly in your own interest to unlock it. You've lost the Mac anyway and if you refuse to unlock it, they're going to need to take an extra $800 of your stuff as well.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • What happens if a deceased family member/relative has an Apple device with activation lock? How would you unlock it to do a wipe/restore to put the device to personal use or resell it?

      • You either have all family members share their login information, or you lose what's on the device.

        Some people DON'T want their family to have access to their private files under any circumstances. Others who are security minded give part of the password to one person and the other half to another to use in case of death or incapacitation.

        It's like a will: not every has one, but everyone should.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by jonwil ( 467024 )

          You could always put details in your will that explain what to do with your devices (and who gets what) and contains (or references something else that contains) the necessary credentials to make that happen.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by puto ( 533470 )
        If you have a device from a deceased family member you call in and we have a special department that will ask you to provide a death cert and prove you are the executor or family member and you have the choice to have the activation lock removed and the device wiped or the Apple ID transferred to you and you can then unlock the device and the accounts and avail yourself of all the data, purchases, contained on their Apple account.
    • At least on iOS mobile devices; activation lock survives wipe unless you specifically log out of the Apple ID account on that device(which requires knowing the password) before issuing the wipe command whether locally or by MDM.

      Being logged in with an Apple ID doesn't stop the wipe from working; but when the device comes back up you cannot progress through setting it up as a new system without being able to provide the correct password for the Apple ID that was logged in when it was wiped.

      Since its de

  • A Variation on Dell's Goodwill Ploy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Cmdln Daco ( 1183119 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:16PM (#59485942)

    That sounds like a variation of Dell's Goodwill ploy.

    You can donate any used PC to your local Goodwill store, but they have a policy and an agreement with Dell that it will never be sold in the store. Instead it will be 'recycled' and destroyed.

    Dell wants to sell new PCs, you see.

    You can get really nice current keyboards, mice and some displays at the Goodwill. Any time you see a really nice one, you can be assured that there's a PC back there in a bin that they won't sell you.

  • It IS Apple! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:18PM (#59485948)
    Don't like the walled garden! Don't go in!

    Just my 2 cents ;)

  • Fuck Apple (Score:3, Insightful)

    by screwthempaa ( 5195657 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:19PM (#59485950)
    Sure most of their customers are clueless dipshits but this is going to far.

    It is past time for strong, federal right to repair laws but the government is completely owned by corporations.

    • It is past time for strong, federal right to repair laws but the government is completely owned by corporations.

      Actually, government is the superhero of corporations. Complete with superpowers.

      • The left love them some government.

        • Almost as much as conservatives love them some giant military, massive federal law enforcement and surveillance apparatus, and local police unconstrained by any notion of civil rights. If I have to pick the boot that's stomping on my face, I'll take the one that at least reduces those problems and doesn't want me to fuck off and die if I can't pay the doctor. You are completely blind if you think the right is about small government any more.

    • Re:Fuck Apple (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Known Nutter ( 988758 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:46PM (#59486016)
      You couldn't wait to say "Fuck Apple" so bad that you didn't even read the summary.... sure no one does. Hint: this has nothing to do with right-to-repair.

      Dipshit.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kjella ( 173770 )

        You couldn't wait to say "Fuck Apple" so bad that you didn't even read the summary.... sure no one does. Hint: this has nothing to do with right-to-repair.

        It doesn't affect repairs where the same user is getting it back, but it's pretty much a death knell for anyone buying broken Macs to fix them. Imagine the power supply/display/keyboard is broken and the user don't think it's worth the price of an official repair but today they can probably get a few bucks from scavengers buying them to mix parts and produce a few working ones. But once it's fixed it's still locked and you have to get hold of the seller again to unlock it, which he couldn't do as long as it

    • So when you sell your car you don’t give the buyer your keys? What about your home? What about your PC? You tell the buyer to fuck off?

      • So when you sell your car you don’t give the buyer your keys? What about your home? What about your PC? You tell the buyer to fuck off?

        I bought a house without the keys, you moron. Also cars without keys. No big deal.

        • You missed the whole point. If some guy is trying to sell you a car and doesn’t have the keys, you don’t think twice about it? If they have the keys, you don’t ask for a title? In this particular case, are you going to buy a device that has no title which everyone knows is very difficult to unlock. But sure I’m the moron to demand some proof of ownership so I’m not buying stolen property.

          • You missed the whole point. If some guy is trying to sell you a car and doesn’t have the keys, you don’t think twice about it?

            I did think twice about it, which is why I bought stuff on auction.

            • So to be clear you don’t care if you buy stolen goods at auction? In the case of a locked iPhone, there is a high probability that phone was stolen. Hey it’s your money but don’t complain if the police track a stolen iPhone to you and confiscate it.

  • If you can reflash an iphone for more ram (Score:3)

    by t0qer ( 230538 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:25PM (#59485968) Homepage Journal

    You can probably reset a T2 chip to it's default unlocked state. For reference, a guy in China upgraded his iPhones's ram.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

    Around 24:50 he's reflashing something on the phone so the newly installed ram can be recognized. Not simple, doesn't look easy, but it does look do-able. I'm sure the same can be done to T2 chips.

  • hardware tinkering?? so in mac pro any non apple pci-e cards / cpus or maybe ram will trip that?

  • Most used computers aren't resold (Score:3)

    by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @07:34PM (#59485990)
    They are just forgotten on the attic, inherited or simply thrown away. A few end up in the hands of collectors and they make a video of it on Youtube. Now they won't.

    • Linux in the early days got a huge boost from the fact that people had older machines to install it on and check it out. I had a whole network of Linux boxes at one point, installed on anything with a 386 or better processor that I could come up with.

  • I really want to hate apple here but i cant. They are making things much more secure. If i had a portable device with my lifes info on it, I would make damn sure it was encrypted to all hell and back. I would probably desire a charge inside it that i could activate remotely to blow up the device.

    All that will happen in reality (not fear-mongering) is that the 2nd hand buyer needs to verify that the device is unlocked before purchasing. If they don't, they will probably only make that mistake once. (like buy

    • oh i guess i misread that. Applies to PC's as well.

      My point was more directed at portable devices, but honestly in a few years, they will be the same OS on all apple products, so its not unexpected. And probably windows will follow suit as well now that everyone knows they can get away with phoning home as much, and for any reason, as they want.

      Macs are almost as irreparable as phones these days. Again par the course for the direction apple has been heading in for 20 or more years. More right to repair laws

  • I'll wait for the YouTube hack video where someone restores the phone with a three dollar toy and silly putty.

  • I'm ok with stolen devices being less valuable (Score:4, Insightful)

    by clay_buster ( 521703 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @08:31PM (#59486134) Homepage

    I really fine with my device being worth a lot less when stolen and with my data being more protected. Let them go steal an Android device or PC.

    First tier trade in shops will be forced to due diligence if the 2nd tier resellers refuse to buy or pay significantly less for locked devices.

  • Data security is more important. (Score:3)

    by couchslug ( 175151 ) on Wednesday December 04, 2019 @09:40PM (#59486336)

    The cost of hardware is trivial compared to (some) data getting into the wrong hands. Security requires excluding unauthorized users. If this bothers you, buy a different product and vote with your wallet.

    • You can encrypt storage and require a storage wipe if the user doesn't have the keys without bricking the entire device. This is just Tim Cook being an obstinate cuck.

  • I don't give keys out to the cars I sell. Suckers! (Score:4, Funny)

    by EmperorOfCanada ( 1332175 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @01:14AM (#59486674)
    You buy a car from me and I don't give you the keys to the car. Now you have to tow it and scrap it for parts.

    Oh, wait. Most people aren't that stupid.

  • Factual nonsense again (Score:3)

    by Wrath0fb0b ( 302444 ) on Thursday December 05, 2019 @02:38AM (#59486774)

    But if you forget, and sell your old iPhone to a friend before you properly wipe it, the phone will just keep asking them for your Apple ID before they can set it up as a new phone. In other words, they won't be able to do much with it besides scrap it for parts.

    Factually untrue. The phone will keep asking for the owner's AppleID until that owner goes to iCloud.com and removes the device. This will unlock it so that it can be claimed by the next owner. They don't even need physical access to the device (or indeed any Apple device) to do it -- it's available both natively and via a web service.

    Perhaps try looking stuff up [apple.com]?

  • I decided to not get a new Apple last generation. To expensive, to much lock in, software quality declining, keyboard disaster, etc. I do miss some tools that run on macOS, but no way am I going to Shell out 2000â for a regular powered Ultrabook these days.

    It's a shame, but sticking with Apple hardware simply isn't reasonable anymore.

  • I wish this had existed when my house got broken into and my Macbook Pro got stolen. The hard drive was busted and I was planning to buy an SSD. Instead some bastard has a perfectly working Macbook Pro.

  • This is basically a giant swipe at right to repair and third party repair.

    So when the retards at the "Genius Bar" tell you your Mac is toast and that you need to spend another $3000 for a new one, when the problem is a $100 part that's easily replaceable by somebody with the proper equipment...

    Well, now they won't be able to simply fix the damn thing and let you go.

    Nope. Now you're on the hook for a full price replacement to fill Apple's pockets...

    Fuck Apple.

    • If itâ(TM)s your machine, you can unlock it. This has nothing to do with right to repair, unless you were hoping to buy cheap parts from stolen equipment.

  • "But if you forget, and sell your old iPhone to a friend before you properly wipe it, the phone will just keep asking them for your Apple ID before they can set it up as a new phone. "

    Then you tell your friend who bought it from you to bring the iPhone over, login with your Apple ID and unlock it so they can properly wipe it.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Megane ( 129182 )
      If he is still alive. What if it was your mom's phone, and your mom dies (or gets Alzheimer's) and it becomes impossible to log into her iCloud account? Too bad about those precious photos that we all know moms just love to keep the only copy of in insecure (as in posterity) places. If you're lucky they printed a copy once on a crappy ink jet printer.

Slashdot Top Deals

Despite all appearances, your boss is a thinking, feeling, human being.

Close