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Portables (Apple) Wireless Networking Technology Hardware

Slashdot Asks: Do You Use Your Laptop's Headphone Jack? 283

The headphone jack is increasingly being omitted from smartphones and tablets, but what about laptops? When Apple launched the redesigned MacBook Pro in 2016, it decided to remove the SD card slot, full-sized USB Type A ports, and Thunderbolt 2 ports -- but keep the 3.5mm headphone jack, even though it axed the headphone jack in the 2016 iPhone 7. The reason, Apple said, had to do with the lack of wireless solutions for pro audio gear that many users use with their MacBooks. "If it was just about headphones then it doesn't need to be there," said Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller. "We believe that wireless is a great solution for headphones." He added: "But many users have set-ups with studio monitors, amps and other pro audio gear that do not have wireless solutions and need the 3.5mm jack."

While most laptops today still retain the headphone jack, that trend doesn't seem like it'll last for too much longer as the industry moves to embrace wireless audio. Laptop alternatives like Apple's iPad Pro and Samsung's Galaxy Tab S5e have both ditched the 3.5mm port, meaning it's only a matter of time until laptops themselves lose the port. Our question to you is: do you use the headphone jack on your laptop? Would you mind if a manufacturer removed the port to make room for a bigger battery or make the device slimmer and more portable? Let us know your thoughts below.
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Slashdot Asks: Do You Use Your Laptop's Headphone Jack?

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  • Yes, constantly (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jawtheshark ( 198669 ) * <{moc.krahsehtwaj} {ta} {todhsals}> on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:11PM (#59087726) Homepage Journal
    I don't want to bother anyone, so I use a rather cheapish Sennheiser HD201. Works for me.

    For the price of those headphones, I simply cannot get anything that sounds as well without any input lag using bluetooth. Never even mind the longevity: a bluetooth headphone will eventually have dying batteries. Unless I physically damage my cabled headphone, it will last me a lifetime. New ear pads can be easily bought and replaced.

    There simply is no contest.

    "We believe that wireless is a great solution for headphones."

    He's wrong.

    • Re:Yes, constantly (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kbrannen ( 581293 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:22PM (#59087792)
      I totally agree with your whole list of reasons. Also, ditching the headphone jack for more battery? It's a laptop, that won't be enough extra battery to matter.

      And wireless is NOT a great solution for headphones ... on my laptop or on my phone. No headphone jack and I'm not buying it.
      • And wireless is NOT a great solution for headphones ... on my laptop or on my phone. No headphone jack and I'm not buying it.

        Agree. Although I believe the day is coming where for a phone replacement, no jack will be the norm and impossible to avoid.

        • Re:Yes, constantly (Score:5, Interesting)

          by LostMyBeaver ( 1226054 ) on Thursday August 15, 2019 @01:15AM (#59088480)
          iPhone 6S Plus is still being sold. Just not by Apple Store, but by partners. So if you buy it, Apple almost has to support it for a few more years.

          For Android, I'd recommend the Huawei Nova 3i. This summer in the shopping mall beneath the twin towers in Malaysia, I visited 9 different stores that could have all be designed by Apple's shop designers.

          - Samsung was pretty bad... I didn't like their phones since they intentionally made their low end shitty to convince you to buy their high end.
          - Mi was nice but looked like they lacked in house developers and just repackaged Android and hoped it worked. I think they're 100% dependent on Google for everything.
          - Oppo was really nice... I mean REALLY nice if you need the cheapest phone you can get. But once they got passed the $100 mark, they didn't seem competitive.
          - Sony didn't really even deserve being in the list. They offered nothing at any category. High end was too little for too much. Low end was too little for too much. Sony was just not competitive at all... unless you want to own something with the name Sony on it.
          - Huawei was hands down the winner in all categories. I ended up with the Nova 3i because it was just too damn good to go any higher.

          It's a phone which cost me $190.00 and with the exception of it being Android, it might be the best high end phone I've ever seen. It's running a Huawei Kirin processor (which is insanely fast it seems), it's got plenty of RAM and Flash. With the exception that I did have to fiddle with PIN codes when I had two SIMs in (and I kinda blame poor dual SIM support on Android) everything worked. It was also possible to get apps from either the Google Play or the Huawei store. Oh... and it has face id, touch id and the physical build of the phone is STRONG. The screen is pretty brilliant as well and "the notch" is much less awful than on the iPhone X and they didn't go as far to the edge as Apple, so it's much more usable. The iPhone X is pretty awful to hold and use because you have to constantly move your hands to see the edges of the screen.

          So... if you're one of the people who realize that Google, probably 10 three letter organizations in the US and probably multiple other governments are spying on you and worse, you probably agreed to it in the license without even realizing it... and you realize that the Chinese government probably doesn't give a shit about you or your pathetic excuse for a bank account... then Huawei is probably the strongest phone maker on the market right now... if they weren't... the US wouldn't be concerned about the 5G market... because after all, if the Chinese crap was crap... the US government wouldn't be nervous about Americans buying nothing but Chinese phones.
          • For Android, I'd recommend the Huawei Nova 3i.

            Tell us, Oh Wise One: What's the status of the bootloader on that model? You'd never pull a recomendation out of your ass... right??

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Re:Yes, constantly (Score:5, Insightful)

      by msauve ( 701917 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @10:40PM (#59088188)
      Well, yeah. But his whole argument is bullshit.

      "If it was just about headphones then it doesn't need to be there," said Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller. "We believe that wireless is a great solution for headphones." He added: "But many users have set-ups with studio monitors, amps and other pro audio gear that do not have wireless solutions and need the 3.5mm jack."

      In contrast to a phone, laptops and desktops certainly have more room for a DAC dongle which can provide at least as much quality as a jack. Pros are going to want a balanced XLR in favor of a 3.5 mm jack, if they want analog at all - more likely they'd just want digital to put into something much more capable than whatever cheap DAC is on a laptop motherboard. And on a laptop it's not nearly as inconvenient as carrying one to use with a phone, where not only is it something extra to carry around (and get lost or broken), but sucks from the much more limited battery life. On a phone it's also not just a headphone jack - it's an audio jack. I regularly plug my phone into a stereo, at least as often as I use headphones.

      One can only wonder how and why they make these decisions, only to have to illogically rationalize them later. There simply is no rational reason for removing jacks from phones. More space for a battery? Meh - make it 0.1 mm thicker - it's only your marketing department which thinks thinner is better (anyone want 1950's automotive tail fins?). And in my experience, playing via Bluetooth also sucks more power than via a jack, much more so than any battery gain. Water resistance? Nah, a jack can be made watertight and you don't warranty/guarantee water resistance anyway. Cost? Mice nuts on any phone priced at over $100. Courage? 'Nuf BS said. To sell more expensive non-replaceable-battery things with planned obsolescence so they need to be repurchased every couple of years? Yeah, that's the ticket!

      • by sd4f ( 1891894 )

        What he's really sugarcoating is club or party DJ's who consistently use macbooks, with the nice prominent logo facing the audience/dancefloor. It's simple, most of them aren't doing hifi, but they probably aren't going to upgrade all their amps to go wireless, let alone deal with any latency issues if it's to work with live musicians. I think apple recognises that it's good advertising, makes it seem like as if it's _the_ tool for any audio work, and no doubt keeps a whole bunch of kids thinking that if th

    • by kriston ( 7886 )

      Not to mention BlueTooth audio is still nowhere near CD-quality audio. Even the latest codecs are low quality.

      • Re:Yes, constantly (Score:5, Interesting)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Thursday August 15, 2019 @01:06AM (#59088456) Homepage Journal

        Bluetooth is amateur hour. In particular, Bluetooth latency is a show-stopper for anyone doing things like musical note entry in Finale/Sibelius.

        I mean, I suppose every single composer who uses a Mac could buy a USB-C-to-1/8" dongle, but ick. Then again, when the iPhone goes USB-C, I suppose we'll all have the dongles anyway, so... *shrugs*

  • No No (Score:5, Funny)

    by rmdingler ( 1955220 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:13PM (#59087738) Journal

    I don't use a laptop, and surely, you can stop calling me Jack.

  • by DigitAl56K ( 805623 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:15PM (#59087744)

    Many users expect to be able to plug laptops into good quality speakers without connectivity issues, lag issues, and so forth, as well as to easily and reliably connect headsets for conferencing.

    Without a commonplace audio-out port a laptop is borderline defective.

    • by Nkwe ( 604125 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:19PM (#59087764)

      Many users expect to be able to plug laptops into good quality speakers without connectivity issues, lag issues, and so forth, as well as to easily and reliably connect headsets for conferencing.

      Without a commonplace audio-out port a laptop is borderline defective.

      Agreed. I would say that without an audio-out port, a phone, tablet, and most other computing devices are also defective.

    • It's also not the case that every cubic millimeter of space a headphone jack occupies inside a laptop needs to be reclaimed so it will fit into your pocket.
    • I listen to music and other audio on my ASUS laptop. Grado headphones and M-AUDIO speakers.
    • I either use the headphone jack or the USB port for audio on my laptop, although usually I just play audio through the laptop speakers. Another option is to listen to music playing on my phone through the phone's headphone jack so when I get up to move around I can take my music with me. It's great to have the freedom to choose what works best for the situation at hand.

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:17PM (#59087754)

    Sometimes it's headphones, and sometimes it's just earbuds... but when I'm watching one thing on my computer, and my wife is watching something else on her iPad, we both usually wear headphones.

    In that situation there's no real advantage to Bluetooth devices - and a couple real disadvantages.

    1) With Bluetooth, you have to make sure your device is charged first
    2) With Bluetooth, occasionally the audio can get slightly out-of-sync with the video

    • Touches on one of my questions from my longer comment below: I'm interpreting your comment to mean the earbuds are rechargeable, but are there rechargeable Bluetooth headphones or speakers? I was actually looking at that section of the store the other day and couldn't figure it out. At least it seemed like all the models I could sort of figure out expected you to use disposable batteries.

  • But musicians for recording use the USB ports for audio interfaces. Apple "Pro" gear keeps getting less and less pro as they keep removing ports. Pro gear means it has flexibility to connect to many types of hardware. Wake up Apple!

    • Pro gear means it has flexibility to connect to many types of hardware. Wake up Apple!

      Rumor is Apple is planning to rebrand their highest-end 2019 phone as the "iPhone Pro", which if true will indicate they've totally disconnected that word from any real world meaning... not that those connections aren't already strained near the breaking point already.

      I wonder if, internally at Apple, PRO now stands for "pricey rip off".

    • Honest question based on my limited experience— don’t most pros doing recording use an external DAC? USB-C gives some great options there.

      • Bingo! This man gets the prize.

      • They sure do, for I/O with analog outboard gear. You still need to listen through something.
      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Honest question based on my limited experience— don’t most pros doing recording use an external DAC? USB-C gives some great options there.

        When recording, sure. You pretty much have to, because you can't feasibly synchronize the internal audio hardware with the external ADC.

        That said, I'd imagine most folks who actually use laptops (as opposed to desktops) for audio recording also use the internal audio quite often when they aren't actively tracking. Most folks don't want to carry around an aud

  • Usually, a couple times a week, some weeks I use it daily.
  • Constantly (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:21PM (#59087782)
    It's better sound than Bluetooth. It doesn't require charging. There are no software glitches. The headsets are much cheaper (disposable). It always works.
  • I use the headphone jack on my laptop frequently. I would use it more often if Ubuntu reliably played audio through it. Disco Dingo (as well as 18.04 and 18.10) doesn't detect that speakers are plugged in at boot time, and is unreliable about routing audio correctly when I unplug and replug them.

    • I use the headphone jack on my laptop frequently. I would use it more often if Ubuntu reliably played audio through it. Disco Dingo (as well as 18.04 and 18.10) doesn't detect that speakers are plugged in at boot time, and is unreliable about routing audio correctly when I unplug and replug them.

      The absolute state of Linux on the Desktop in 2019 folks.

      (I know I know, SO probably has 30 hits for how to fix this exact problem, and it's probably a quick edit to a conf file somewhere)

  • by malkavian ( 9512 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:21PM (#59087788)

    When I'm out and about, I often take my headset with me, so I can communicate with wherever I need to. I invested in a decent one (a nicer Sennheiser) as it gives a great sound, and actually lets me understand what's being spoken (I have enough trouble with that, without having to fight through bad speakers).
    I can wear the headset all day if necessary, and being wired, it'll never run out of charge.

    I can sort of understand the use case of removing a 3.5mm jack from a phone, but from a laptop/PC, there's not much point in removing it, and lots to lose by doing so.

  • ... use 3.5mm headphones.

    I spend a lot of time there and Bluetooth headphones don't typically hold a charge for that long.

    For smartphones and tablets and TV, I use Bluetooth.

    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      If you're at your desk for more than 30h at a time, you should really go see someone about that. I have an el-cheapo BT headset that I can work through the day, forget to turn it off while streaming music and then work through another day before it starts warning me that I need to recharge.

  • Since I ended up going high quality wireless headphones as "forced" by the phone's lack of jack, I end up just listening to music off my phone while my phone is plugged into my laptop.
    Too much of a hassle to switch Bluetooth between laptop and phone. Which is actually what I find the biggest shortcoming of Bluetooth protocol or at least devices currently.

    I gotta say, I really enjoy the lack of wires and not having so many buds that always fall out. Though I was taken somewhat kicking and screaming through t

  • Hello,

    I use the headphone jack in my laptop, as well as in my desktop and my smartphone when I am listening to music. Bothering co-workers and fellow passengers by blasting out your music is rude and annoying.

    Regards,

    Aryeh Goretsky

  • On my desk I have speakers plugged into the jack and usually keep headphones plugged into the speakers. But if the jack wasn't there I would have USB speakers, so the question is kind of pointless.

    In the living room we have bluetooth speakers connected to a phone or tablet, so the question is kind of pointless there too.

  • Yes, all the time, because Windows 10's handling of Bluetooth audio devices sucks, the 3.5mm jack is bulletproof, and if any manufacturer tries to claim the 3.5mm jack is hindering their innovation that is clearly bs. Here's why it sucks more detail: https://www.howtogeek.com/3543... [howtogeek.com]
  • Would you mind if a manufacturer removed the port to make room for a bigger battery or make the device slimmer and more portable? Let us know your thoughts below.

    As far as I can tell, no manufacturer has added a bigger battery that takes up as much additional space as was gained by the removal of the headphones jack. And I doubt it would amount to anything in a laptop.

    I don't want a thinner phone or laptop. My Galaxy s3 and now s5 were both too thin for me to hold comfortably so I added cases. My last 4 laptops have been Dell Precision M. They are more of a mobile workstation as I need a large screen and power more than I need thin and dainty. A couple laptops

    • thin and dainty

      I can maybe (maybe) understand this in a phone, but I want functionality over dainty and thin in a laptop. There is a whole shift to making shit thinner. WHY? For seven years I walked around with a brick of a rugged cellphone, way before CAT and all the rest. Battery life in the beginning was 3 days when most phones were 8 hours. I don't want slim, I want battery life and longevity. Longevity in phone life and phone charge. This fucked up fascination with making things thinner is ret

  • Especially on a laptop, I may be out somewhere that I'd like to keep my audio private or courteously not annoy others with it, and all my headphones are wired because I don't want to charge them or worry about them running out of charge, and I like them to be light.

    If I had some kind of professional need, I'd appreciate the reliability of a wired connection and the low latency, but also I might be using some kind of a breakout device rather than direct analog audio.

    On an iPad pro w/ headphone jack, sometime

  • And no, you can't take my "legacy" USB-A port either. That would be a stupid gesture.

    In pursuit of "thinness" and an unbroken glass front, the laptop has speakers that are poor quality and face sideways, so the headphone jack is used more often than it should be.

    • How are people with low vision going to keep track of wireless earbuds when people with normal vision can't? At least with wires you can feel around on your desk or work table and find the wire without having to worry about knocking it onto the floor ...
      • by guruevi ( 827432 )

        People with limited vision are a lot more adept at leaving and retrieving things in places than sighted people specifically because they cannot see.

  • by Jason1729 ( 561790 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @08:40PM (#59087872)
    Yes, and not having one is a 100% deal breaker.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • No, the sound coming from the headphone jack has noticeably noise. I wish that it was a headset jack that allows for a microphone and headphones for meetings. Often I find myself yelling into the laptop.
    • The 3.5 jacks have allowed both headphones and integrated microphones for years.
    • No, the sound coming from the headphone jack has noticeably noise

      Buy a better set of headphones, or a better laptop. And maybe a course on the English language.
      If you are yelling into your laptop then you definitely need to buy a better laptop, Walmart specials are only for special people.

  • Without my laptop in front of me, I can't even tell you whether or not it has a headphone jack, nor what side it's on.

    In the environments most consumer-types listen to audio, there's no discernible difference in quality between a good analog and a good wireless set of headphones. Even in the average office there's enough noise pollution to negate any perceived 'better quality' in wired headphones. People are just used to what they're used to. Feel free to keep listening to digital music/books/whatever pushe

    • It's not about audio quality, it's about the fact that I don't need batteries, or to charge. It's not like I want to break out in a break dance while coding and listening to music (generally) but having a battery fucking low warning is stupid annoying.
    • In the environments most consumer-types listen to audio, there's no discernible difference in quality between a good analog and a good wireless set of headphones.

      You would have to be deaf not to hear the difference. A2DP sucks everywhere. It isn't even subtle, close or anywhere near transparency.

      Feel free to keep listening to digital music/books/whatever pushed through 60 year-old analog technology.

      LOL like there is even such a thing as a digital speaker. ALL speakers are inherently analog devices.

      Whether listening with wireless headphones or wired plugged into a laptop it's all the very same shit: DAC -> AMP -> Speakers -> Ears

      All wireless headphones do is add an unnecessary transcode to the chain using a crappy codec driven at insufficient bitrate that le

      • by guruevi ( 827432 )

        So you're saying you can hear the difference in 300 vs 500kbps (48kHz, 24 bit sound)? A2DP is just the profile, most halfway decent headphones (even cheap ones) will support at least AAC 320kbps. If it sounds like a telephone, then you just have a phone headset.

        In a laptop environment, the DAC and AMP are surrounded by very noisy components and generally rather low quality (they have to fit in a chip). If you can't stand a BT headphone, how are you standing the MHz and GHz signals emanating on the Realtek c

  • I sit in front of a desktop and work in units of CD. Start a CD, work, when the CD is done take a break. Desktop is plugged into high quality wireless headphones, and my MP3s are good quality.

    With the laptop I'm usually somewhere where listening to music isn't appropriate. Otherwise I use my phone's headphone jack.

    Oddly enough, I'd never thought of it before. I don't think I've ever used my laptop's headphone jack. When I would, the headphones are plugged into my phone.
    • Desktop as well; I use the headphone jack for conference calls/webex mostly, and when I have to work on my laptop or tablet I expect the same experience. I haven’t had a bluetooth headset for years that worked well enough to not get complaints from other people on the call when I have background noise.

  • Pro audio gear uses the jacks they omitted and the crappy stuff uses the mini headphone jack.

  • ... every day. Versatile (albeit low bandwidth and noisy) DAC/ADC is a very useful thing to have around. In addition to being able to produce/record audio, most audio devices can be used as a crude function generator and/or oscilloscope (with obvious limitations on bandwidth). Bluetooth, in my opinion, is a poor replacement for a number of reasons, especially device battery capacity/longevity, wonky software implementations, and more importantly, lack of nearly universal compatibility. While the standard 3.
  • He added: "But many users have set-ups with studio monitors, amps and other pro audio gear that do not have wireless solutions and need the 3.5mm jack."

    I don't think the use of pro audio gear is a compelling reason for leaving a headphone jack that's driven by a consumer grade chip set in an electrically noisy environment. Anyone that's actually really doing pro level audio work is probably using an external DAC or something, or at least should be.

    • > Anyone that's actually really doing pro level audio work is probably using an external DAC or something, or at least should be.

      I came here to say this. I'm just a hobbyist but I don't use onboard DAC or ADC for even simple stuff that needs reasonable quality. Get a Roland/Edriol for small dollars and enjoy a big quality boost.

      Phil is full of shit, as usual. Even if he's thinking of teenagers with a Macbook who think they're DJ's, sell them a dongle. That said, I use a headphone jack for headphones

  • The cost to include a headphone jack on devices is minimal, and removing it benefits no one. Bluetooth diminishes audio quality because itâ(TM)s an analog to digital conversion go

    • (Effing iPad) going out, then another digital to analog conversion going out. As a songwriter and musician, Iâ(TM)m offended that Apple keeps making their products less useful, and pushes for dongles and wireless solutions that basically say âoefuck you consumer, your money means nothing to usâ.

  • I used to rely on the HDD light until they had the courage to get rid of it. I used to replace batteries that needed charging. I used to like having the laptop logo oriented so it was instinctively easy to orient the laptop before opening the hinge.

    I still use my headphone jack (and microphone) frequently. I suppose someone will have the courage to remove that from laptops soon.

    Now I am contemplating when someone will take the keyboard and screen away.

    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      And surprisingly, nobody misses those things as they weren't really functional. HDD's and especially SSD's are now faster than our eyes can pick up, the light blinking on any that are left over is just for show, it doesn't represent anything and can be controlled by software to perform other, more useful indicators.

      Nobody replaces batteries anymore, I have a 7 year old Macbook Pro and a few Dell's laying around with original batteries. Since we invented LiIon and especially LiPo batteries, they should last

  • I just finished watching a television show on my laptop, with my headphones plugged into the laptop check, when I stopped by Slashdot and saw this post.

    Actually I did try Bluetooth headphones but quickly realized that there is an audio delay of around 300ms. Fine for music, but for something more interactive like gaming, it's a no-go. I understand that some headsets support a low-latency Bluetooth codec that avoids this, but I didn't know about this at all when I picked up the headset. Fortunately, it
  • Absolutely (Score:5, Informative)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:01PM (#59087952) Journal

    I use the headphone jack all the time. Bluetooth blows except for the most mundane audio tasks.

  • by steveha ( 103154 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:05PM (#59087962) Homepage

    The modern trend on phones from all makers is to omit the headphone jack. Samsung mocked Apple when Apple got rid of the headphone jack, but even Samsung has made [androidauthority.com] this change, so I'm pretty sure there are actual design constraints pushing the phone makers in this direction.

    It seems to me that there are two major drivers: wanting to make crazy thin phones that still have as much battery as possible; and wanting to make waterproof phones.

    We have seen that premium phones in the past have managed to be waterproof while still having a headphone jack. But the phone makers have gone away from that, and I believe the reason is cost... it's simply less expensive to waterproof a single USB C port and have that double as the headphone port.

    None of the above has anything to do with laptops.

    Consider how large even a compact laptop (or Chromebook) is: it shouldn't be any problem to fit the jack, and the jack shouldn't interfere with fitting batteries inside. And laptops just aren't waterproof.

    So the only actual reason for omitting the headphone jack is to save a tiny amount of cost to build the laptop. And even Apple, in their "Mac Netbook" [apple.com] didn't cheap out that much.

    I want my laptop to have "pro" features: lots of USB ports, an SD card slot, an Ethernet jack, etc. And by golly I want and expect a headphone jack of at least decent quality.

    I have been known to use a USB DAC with a good pair of headphones, but a lot of the time I just put a decent-quality pair of earbuds into the jack.

    And of course the laptop should offer the headphone jack that supports a microphone input as well. Video conferencing is a thing.

    P.S. I'll bet that one reason for omitting the headphone jack on a tablet is just to unify the tablet experience with the phone experience. If the industry is trying to push us all off of headphone jacks, why let us have one on a tablet?

    But if any laptop makers try to omit the headphone jack, I will vote with my dollars for a different brand of laptop. There are plenty of laptop makers who aren't trying to sell phones, so there should be options that have headphone jacks forever.

  • >"Slashdot Asks: Do You Use Your Laptop's Headphone Jack?"

    Yes. And I use it on my tablet. And I use it on my phone. I have cheap, lightweight, great sounding earphones that require no "syncing", no charging, no battery replacements, have no interference issues, don't get lost, work on any device with a headphone jack (which are all my devices), have great sound because they don't go through strange conversions, and just work fine.

    I do not use it on my desktop computer.

  • My main notebooks are used as desktop replacements but all my headphone jacks get used. I also go out of my way to get ports and swappable batteries My new P52 pleases in those respects.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I don't own macbooks at home, yet I've still learned that Apple's port design includes a tiny physical switch that, should it fail to un-depress itself (ie becomes at all aged, sticky, dusty in there) will block headphone use. Your headphone output (ie system prefs) will be locked and if you look in the port, a faint red light is visible. Google the issue and you get people recommending things like a tape-wrapped toothpick to unstick the switch.

    This is from the MBP/MBA era and has likely been resigned for t

  • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:44PM (#59088044)
    Headphone jack users: I like using a wired headphone, but if you want to use wireless headphones that's fine with me.

    Wireless headphone users: Everyone should be using wireless headphones. Headphone jacks need to disappear and their users forced to convert.
  • by xavdeman ( 946931 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @09:45PM (#59088046)
    "Laptop alternatives like Apple's iPad Pro and Samsung's Galaxy Tab S5e have both ditched the 3.5mm port, meaning it's only a matter of time until laptops themselves lose the port." Yeah, that's must be why laptops don't have keyboards anymore. Oh, wait. iPad and other tablets are not laptop alternatives. They're tablets, unfit for serious productivity. More for the passive consumption of content than creation. Also Apple is terrible for pro audio. Who connects an amp to minijack? An Apple user, because MacBooks don't have native HDMI so they can't bitstream the audio, and the adapter is $ 80.
  • Specialized Port (Score:3, Interesting)

    by PAjamian ( 679137 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @10:02PM (#59088076)

    The audio jacks are just specialized ports. Remove them and you can put one or two extra USB ports in their place and for $10-20 you can buy a USB audio adapter that does the same thing. I think more people would benefit from an extra USB port than the audio jack and a simple dongle returns the functionality anyways. We've removed parallel ports, serial ports, game port, and replaced the VGA port with a much smaller, multi-use HDMI port. Consolidating specialized ports to multi-use generic ports is a good way to go because then you can plug whatever you want into the port instead of only being able to plug a specific piece of hardware into a special-purpose port.

    My laptop has three USB ports, with a fourth I would not have had to run out and buy a USB hub for it but I don't need an audio port on it.

    • Re:Specialized Port (Score:5, Interesting)

      by lsllll ( 830002 ) on Thursday August 15, 2019 @01:14AM (#59088478)
      Not sure about all the dufuses (dufi?) who modded the parent, but for the space of two USB-A port I can fit at least 5 headphone jacks. The 3.5mm headphone jack does not take that much space, and the circuitry in the DAC behind it certainly doesn't take more space then a couple of extra USB ports would. I would hate to have to carry a USB dongle that sucks more battery out of the notebook (and takes more space in my backpack, and is likely to get lost) than the internal DAC would. It's a no brainer. If you don't have space on a notebook to include a 3.5mm headphone jack, then you're doing it wrong.
  • Both I and my bigger kids always use the headphone jack when playing games. We've got headphones that are about a decade old and I don't feel like buying new gear when I can fix the old. The idea of another item to charge would be annoying, too.

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @10:07PM (#59088102)

    I really do [liveleak.com][NSFW]

  • by fabioalcor ( 1663783 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @10:25PM (#59088158)

    Yes.
    Would not change it for another USB. There's already enough space for a dozen USB ports if they want to.
    If sound quality is bad just give me a better onboard sound.
    We all know they'd not give us more battery in place of the 3.5 mm jack. Total BS.
    We don't need slimmer devices. They're already flimsy enough.
    Bluetooth sucks, it's not a superior substitute for anything.
    And get off my lawn.

  • When they finally get everyone to use bluetooth headphones, just to have an massive infight for the frequencies between everyone in the locale.

  • by Crudely_Indecent ( 739699 ) on Wednesday August 14, 2019 @10:40PM (#59088190) Journal

    I sit at my desk streaming something while I work. Headphones, or speakers on my desk - that jack is in use. And why take it away? It's a technology that has been around for decades and can be used for more than just audio out.

    The real reason - they want to save a few pennies on board manufacturing costs and have an excuse to sell you a $30 dongle to replace the headphone jack they just took away from you.

  • ANY Bluetooth audio, even the "super low latency" variety currently being promoted, has too high a latency for a musician. Since I use my laptop as a sound-generating system for playing with a team (essentially as the synth connected to my MIDI-controller keyboard), any perceptible latency will throw me off. A hardwired audio port is essential.

    Many manufacturers claim that people cannot hear 100ms latency, but that's a self-serving metric. It is only true when you're talking about the eye-to-ear split where

  • No way. Not until BlueTooth is CD-quality and low-latency.
    Today it is never the former and very rarely the latter.

  • Yes, for meetings all the time. For training and demos. For video calls, so again all the time.

  • I won't buy a laptop or a phone without a headphone jack for a number of reasons. I can somewhat understand the need to remove the jack from a phone for space, but laptops have more than enough room for the tiny jack.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Don't use the headphone jack that often, but here's my summary. In two cases I'd love to learn about solutions.

    (1) MacBook Pro. I think the speakers are getting bad because there's a little rattle when the volume is high enough, so sometimes I use external speakers through the headphone jack. However it only works for one channel. Since the machine is far out of warranty, I'm considering buying some Bluetooth speakers. (How easy to use the same Bluetooth speakers with other devices such as smartphones?)

    (2)

  • Constantly. If my company sent me a laptop without a headphone jack for use in my home office, I'd send it back and tell them to send me a real computer so I can participate in the 2-3 hours of teleconferences I attend every day.
  • by pegdhcp ( 1158827 ) on Thursday August 15, 2019 @03:17AM (#59088608)
    I do not want to sound neither pretentious nor old fashioned. I am both of these, mind you, but I do not want to impress my views based on these two factors. That being said, being an electronics technician since 1989, programmer since 1996 and product manager since 2008.... Apple and some of their competitors are pushing all the workload of "news features" in their products to either software or optional hardware they sell separately. That, besides being unethical, is stupid as well, if for nothing else, for the negative press that creates.

    Yes I use my headphone jack on my NB, maybe once in a month. So that was one of the reasons making me question of buying another Apple when this one eventually bite the dust. There are lots of other horror stories related to Apple computers like problematic keyboards, monitor problems usability issues related to those dynamic key thingies etc.

    However, probably unknowingly, you provided the final nail for a new apple's coffin on my account. Are they going to remove fucking SD interface? Or did they already removed it from current models and I missed in the cacophony of all other problems? I am already carrying two adapters, one for HDMI and one for ethernet cable that I am forced to use in one customer's office.I do not one to add two more adapters; one for audio, one for SD....

    So dear Apple; It would take a miracle to make me buy any new Apple NB when my current one dies. I would change my battery when needed, I would upgrade disk and RAM if it comes to that and sorry you lost a customer who on average uses three computers and you lost anybody who would listen my advice, starting with my own company and advisees. Oh shit, I would need to find a stable Linux desktop, which also would be a miracle.

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Thursday August 15, 2019 @06:37AM (#59088878)

    After all, this is no longer the century of the fruitbat.

  • by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Thursday August 15, 2019 @12:19PM (#59090008) Homepage

    USB headphones are neat, but there are technical limitations to them. Since they are treated as a separate audio device you can't always switch mid-stream. Suppose you are using a voice chat app, or a game, when you plug-in the USB headphones. I don't know how Linux or OS X behave, but on Windows when the OS sees a new audio device it installs the driver and sends a notification to each device. Usually the new device becomes the "default" device, but unless the application listens to the message and takes action to reinitialize the audio, it will continue to use the old device. This is especially an issue if your built-in sound car is using 7.1 surround, then you plug-in headphones. The sound card knows exactly what to do - it downmixes and adjusts and things still work (although it might be sub-optimal). But a game might have to reload audio files and switch audio rendering engines.

    Can anyone describe how other OS's handle this?

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