Your Next iPhone Might Be Made in Vietnam. Thank the Trade War. (nytimes.com) 173
No country on earth has benefited from President Trump's trade fight with China more than Vietnam. From a report: The country's factories have swelled with orders as American tariffs cause companies to reconsider making their products in China. Now, more big technology firms are looking to bulk up their manufacturing operations in Vietnam, lifting the ambitions of a nation already well on its way to becoming a powerhouse maker of smartphones and other high-end gadgets. First, though, Vietnam needs to get better at making the little plastic casings on your earbuds.
Vu Huu Thang's company in the northern city of Bac Ninh, Bac Viet Technology, produces small plastic parts for Canon printers, Korg musical instruments, and Samsung cellphones and phone accessories, including earbuds. He said it would be hard for his firm to compete against Chinese suppliers as long as he had to buy 70 to 100 tons of imported plastic material every month, most of it made in China. "Vietnam cannot compare with China," Mr. Thang said. "When we buy materials, it's 5, 10 percent more expensive than China already." And the Vietnamese market is too small, he said, to entice plastic producers to set up plants here.
Vu Huu Thang's company in the northern city of Bac Ninh, Bac Viet Technology, produces small plastic parts for Canon printers, Korg musical instruments, and Samsung cellphones and phone accessories, including earbuds. He said it would be hard for his firm to compete against Chinese suppliers as long as he had to buy 70 to 100 tons of imported plastic material every month, most of it made in China. "Vietnam cannot compare with China," Mr. Thang said. "When we buy materials, it's 5, 10 percent more expensive than China already." And the Vietnamese market is too small, he said, to entice plastic producers to set up plants here.
The only reason Vietnam not in trouble too (Score:5, Funny)
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That's not how that works, it's about not wanting to have the country indebted to China and having them hold things over the USA.
Then why has he failed to do anything at all that would actually drive companies to change and want to do business in the US? This trade-war, as it stands, is a flimsy excuse to tax the lower/middleclass via tariffs, to cover some of the losses his big tax break on the rich created. Worst, there is little incentive for any politician that follows him, democrat or republican to u
Re: The only reason Vietnam not in trouble too (Score:2)
This trade-war, as it stands, is a flimsy excuse to tax the lower/middleclass via tariffs
It doesn't actually play out like that but thanks for shilling.
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This trade-war, as it stands, is a flimsy excuse to tax the lower/middleclass via tariffs
It doesn't actually play out like that but thanks for shilling.
*sportscaster's voice* "And there it is people! Both sides have weighed in with an impressive 1 opinion and 0 facts. Seems scores are still even as both have done precisely zero to move the conversation forward."
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Re: The only reason Vietnam not in trouble too (Score:2)
Yeah but we invaded and fought in Vietnam so it wouldn't be communist like China
Lolz lolz lolz
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It's actually kind of weird.
I went to Vietnam (Saigon and surrounding environs. Yeah, the locals still say Saigon. But call it HCMC if you're ever in the north.) on vacation this year. And oh do they pay lip service to communism. The iconography is all there... hammers and sickles, red stars, gold stars on red backgrounds, portrait of Ho Chi Minh himself, and police, security guards, and even schoolchildren dressed up like soldiers. The war remembrance museum is right there in the middle of the city.
Kennedy was OK with a small combat role for US (Score:3)
Kennedy didn't want to goto war with Vietnam. He openly admitted it before he was even president.
Nope. Kennedy sent US military personnel to Vietnam to assist *and* to fight. He increased the number of US Special Forces and deployed some to Vietnam. He pushed for adoption of the M-16 rifle, in part, because it was better for jungle fighting (ie Vietnam).
You are conflating Kennedy wanting to keep the combat role of US forces relatively small with Kennedy not wanting to go to war. Kennedy merely didn't want the sort of large combat role we saw under Johnson. Of course, Kennedy may have fallen into the
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Yeah but we invaded and fought in Vietnam so it wouldn't be communist like China
No, you invaded to help France to keep one of the last colonies anyone had on the planet. Supporting a military junta and dictatorship. Surprisingly the Vietnamese preferred to be free, regardless of "colour of the regime". Just the same as in Cuba.
US/Vietnamese relationship is normally friendly (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah but we invaded and fought in Vietnam so it wouldn't be communist like China
Actually we were invited in by the South to help in a civil war. And while the North was "communist" it was not a puppet of Russia nor China. There actually was an opportunity for the US to be friendly with a communist nation before we intervened in the civil war. Some of the senior leadership in the North were grateful to American military advisors who fought with them against the Japanese occupation during WW2. American military personnel were given positions of honor when attending some state events and parades (that's a big thing in the communist world). These leaders were open to relationships with the US. We f'd that all up by backing the French when they wanted Vietnam "back". In recent decades we have moved back towards our original relationship, a friendly one.
The natural relationship between the US and Vietnam is friendly despite their communist government. China is their historical enemy. China considers any territory that was at some time controlled by any Chinese government of the past to be "Chinese" territory. They view Vietnam as belonging in their sphere of influence (and control), Vietnam doesn't see it that way, even communist Vietnam.
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It was a civil war against communists who also were supporting commumists in Laos and Cambodia. The number one reason for entering the war was to stop the spread of communism. Russia gave $1 billion in aid in 3 years starting 1965. The weapons (tanks, aircraft, anti-aircraft missiles and batteries, etc.) faced were largely Russian.
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It was a civil war against communists who also were supporting commumists in Laos and Cambodia. The number one reason for entering the war was to stop the spread of communism. Russia gave $1 billion in aid in 3 years starting 1965. The weapons (tanks, aircraft, anti-aircraft missiles and batteries, etc.) faced were largely Russian.
Yes, the North accepted Russian and Chinese aid in a time or war. That does not mean they were predisposed to be a puppet. Note the Chinese/Vietnamese border war not long after the North's victory.
Yes, the US viewed it as a domino effect but incorrectly assessed it was all controlled from Russia or China. It was not. Laos and Cambodian communists also had their own notions of how to run their country and checking with Russia or China was not part of the plan. The US wanted to prevent Russian and Chinese
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I was alive then, don't know why arguing the phrase "russian puppet" means anything.
It very much was about "the spread of communism"
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I was alive then, don't know why arguing the phrase "russian puppet" means anything. It very much was about "the spread of communism"
I was alive then too, grew up watching the war on TV, grew up around vets. Yes the publicly stated rationale for the war, the reason told the public and soldiers, was to stop "the spread of communism", but that was the sales pitch. However the notion of communism being portrayed was false, a Russian led global conspiracy and hegemony. Certainly Russia wanted that hegemony but various communist countries did not, and some saw no problem with friendly relations with the west. Again, Vietnam fit that model pri
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wow you have the rose colored glasses on.
The current communist government of Viet Nam ruthlessly oppresses dissenters with jail, torture, beatings and firebombings with hired thugs. It is a police state without freedom of speech. Moderate?
the head of Cambodia Hun Sen now is dyed in the wool former khmer rouge, holding power with his former commie cronies ruthlessly oppressing the political opposition, throwing people off their land to seize it and is puppet of viet nam.
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I doubt these are bought with BizX. It is just Millennials complaining about Trump who don't want to pay more for stuff. You see this stuff on CNN: blame Trump if iPhones are made in China (because slave labor), and blame him if they aren't made in China (he is destroying the economy). It panders to the ever-shrinking audience.
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Even if he can find it on a map, he can't sell a commecial war on it.
It don't roll the tongue as "chaina".
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Clothing made in Vietnam at least wears decently. The Chinese can't fucking sew.
Per capita GDP is China is four times higher than in Vietnam. China is a much richer country.
Working as a sewer in a textile factory is a good job in Vietnam, while in China, the few textile factories left are scraping the bottom of the barrel for workers.
Bangladesh is even poorer than Vietnam (and has twice as many people), so textile factories there can be even choosier. Most new textile factories are locating in Bangladesh.
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So? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe I'm missing something, but so what? Who cares where the widget is made? If your pro-local then China vs Vietnam doesn't change anything. If you want cheaper product, again this doesn't change anything.
However, what this DOES do is hurt China. If companies are moving manufacturing out of China and into other countries, then China is the clear loser. That would put pressure on China to make a deal to relieve the tariffs. Seems like the tariffs are doing their job if this story is true.
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I think the point is how failing Trumps Policies are.
Tough Trading Restrictions on companies to bring in more Local Manufacturing, only leads to changing countries, as it is still more affordable then bringing it back into the US.
Perhaps the US Manufacturing problem isn't caused by a bad trading regulations.
Vietnam an improvement over China (Score:3)
Maybe I'm missing something, but so what? Who cares where the widget is made? If your pro-local then China vs Vietnam doesn't change anything.
While local would be ideal, manufactured in Vietnam is still a vast improvement over China. Aside from all the unfair trade practices you acknowledge, there remains the problem that China's communist party is modernizing and enlarging its military so that it can exert greater control over its neighbors through force or threatened force, and to engage in colonial-like activity in Africa and South America. So its not as simple as getting China to engage in fair trade, we still have their militaristic problems
As an added bonus this will grow the Asian economy (Score:5, Interesting)
This is how the market equalizes the economy (Score:2)
The market doesn't see anything (Score:2)
There's been a lot of talk from the left wing here in America and one of the points that keeps coming up is the market should serve the people, not the other way around.
I agree it's too late for us to dominate manufacturing employment. We're still a major manufacturer though, we just don
Markets can absolutely see (Score:1)
and you actually gave the reason: humans make the market.
And humans see things. They are also alive, and last I checked humans are a part of nature, so yes you can even say we're a force of nature.
There's been a lot of talk from the left wing here in America and one of the points that keeps coming up is the market should serve the people, not the other way around.
I'm sorry the left wing in your America is so stupid to say something so stupid, and repeat it so many times at that.
See, since humans make the market, so saying "market should serve the people" just means "people should serve people", so turning it "other way around" doesn't do anything. At best you're playing mu
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Oh, so being a vet is a prerequisite for being a "true patriot" now, is it? So your president is not a true patriot in your eyes? Maybe wind the hyperbole in a touch?
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I agree he's not a true patriot. I didn't suggest that it was because he dodged the draft that he wasn't a true patriot. I took issue with the OP's absurd stance that *only* vets could be true patriots.
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What you say may or may not be true, but it's not what I was objecting to. I was objecting to the ridiculous idea that *only* vets could be true patriots. That's an argument so extreme it was specifically rejected by RAH in Starship Troopers. HIs characters argued, as you do, that military vets had a greater propensity towards patriotism and were enfranchised by virtue of having demonstrated their patriotism by putting their life on the line. But it was clear it was a heuristic, not a hard and fast rule, to
Nonsense (Score:5, Funny)
All electronics will always be made cheaply in Japan.
Signed,
80s Guy
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Why? Because caucasians are just too damn tall. [youtube.com]
That changes what exactly? (Score:2)
I mean, who cares? China, Vietnam, for all I care they can assemble it in Iran, in the end it doesn't create any jobs here either way.
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Apple cares. If it is 5% more expensive to build an iPhone that is out of their pocket because they have hit the pricing ceiling already.
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A company that sells a luxury product with ungodly margins will have to contemplate slightly smaller profits while sitting on a $245 billion in cash reserves. My tears aren't coming, maybe I'm clutching my head in agony wrong.
Re: That changes what exactly? (Score:2)
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Because it's kinda hard to convince people here to work for 7 bucks per day instead of per hour.
Reparations (Score:5, Insightful)
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Somehow I don't think corporations employing slave labor in third-world countries has anything to do with Trump, or can be called "reparations".
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Same with all the other workers building other golf clubs. If they really cared about the issue, they wouldn't be pointing out only a single instance. Instead, it's just a bullshit an attack story against Trump.
How many little kids did it take to make your shoes you fucking scumbag? Off with your head for supporting those engaged in childhood slavery. You're basically a slave owner yourself. If you stopped buying new shoes, those kids would be able to live happy, joyful lives full of wonder instead of
So what? Good. As long as it's not in China (Score:1)
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Plastic? There's plenty (Score:1)
Just fish it out of the ocean...
Vietnam is now his personal Vietnam
Vietnam already has huge tech factories (Score:5, Interesting)
We took a tour through VIetnam, in particular going from the city of Hanoi to the local tourist area a few hours east.
Driving through the country especially just leaving the city, there are miles and miles of brand new, white factories encapsulating 5+ acres each. They have names like Foxconn and Cannon on them. And the cost of living in vietnam is about 50-75% the cost of living in china. As China comes online as part of the first world their cost of living goes up, manufacturing is going to leave China for cheaper locations.
Vietnam is pretty convenient as they have a rail link with China on their northern border, direct sea access from Hanoi to major Chinese ports, etc. Probably everything assembled in China will end up moving to Vietnam or other cheap countries in southeast asia over the next 20 years.
Tariff haters are liars. (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Tariff haters are liars. (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you know what I enjoyed most about your post? It was the part that summed up everything about you: the part where you said "My three favorite MSM lies"... and then listed 4 things. It is a perfect encapsulation of being triumphantly wrong about everything.
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I don't know why you think I'd want to rebut your post. Why would I bother doing that? You're confirmed in your view. There's nothing I or anyone could say that would make you change the object that passes for your mind. So I won't bother with that pointless activity. Instead, I'll just laugh at the stupidity of someone who says: 'My three favorite lies' and then lists four. And then tries to cover up by saying 'oh but one was a bonus'. Did the dog eat your homework too?
Here's what non-stupid people do when
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How is point 2 not shown as a second order effect of point 1? As in, if point 1 holds and importers/maybe some producers don't want to raise price, how is that shown as removed from the CPI increase calculation?
What a difference 50 years has made (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember Vietnam as the war that kept going on and on, and the mighty US couldn't defeat those "little guys in black pajamas." Nowadays Vietnam is becoming a manufacturing giant. In between there was a article of many foreign companies trying to start up factories but the corruption caused many delays to a point many companies gave up. But seems like they have made some progress. And for many people Vietnam War is as distant as the War of 1812 (hard to imagine Brits invading and burning down the White House). I wonder what if we didn't get involved in such a conflict after the French pulled out.
I wonder how quality control of clothing will be for stuff made in Vietnam. Stuff from China including "high quality" is pretty bad. In fact much of the clothing is disposable which causes landfill problems. Even Africa is beginning to refuse 2nd hand clothes like China is refusing our trash.
War of 1812 (Score:1)
How many getting cancer every year from defoliants used in 1812?
hate China hate US (Score:1)
China invaded Vietnam after we left and promptly had their ass handed to them.
Vietnam hates China so much they like us again.
I can only see this as a huge fuck you to China from both Vietnam and US and it makes me happy.
Thank the Chamber of Commerce (Score:2)
The Chamber of Commerce has been planning this for a long time.
new slogan? (Score:2)
Make Vietnam Great Again!
Sounds like a Trump win (Score:3)
I'd much rather see American consumers funneling money to our partners in SE Asia rather than to China.
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Re: Sounds like a Trump win (Score:2)
China's governance is anathema to democratic values. We shouldn't be propping up dictators with American money. And chasing the cheapest labor has real global costs.
Re: Sounds like reanjr the hater (Score:2)
I don't hate China, but that doesn't change the fact that Vietnam is our ally and China is our rival.
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Get your head out of your ass, dude.
It's totally normal to not not support either of two options, but still think one is better.
We shouldn't be doing business with Saudi Arabia, either. But it's better than China, because they are a strategic ally.
Why not Mexico / South America (Score:1)
Personally, I would try to bring back cheap manufacturing back to Mexico and South/Central America. I think there is a lot of opportunity there, and would help those economies out which help limit immigration.
I guess there are a lot of stability issues, but those mostly stem from corporate abuse / corporate takeover. I think strong political ties with the people and a slow (emphasis slow) march south would help with that.
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Thank the trade war and the goverment finally standing up for REAL americans.
This is true. It doesn't matter if you like Trump, it doesn't matter if you like tariffs. In fact, it isn't even actually about the long-term use of tariffs.
What it is about is using the tools available to get things DONE. To solve problems.
Trump has used tariffs to make other nations DO what they said they would NEVER DO. Look at Mexico defending its border FOR US. It wants a trade agreement and it doesn't want higher tariffs. Tariffs, just a tool to use to use along with diplomacy.
Guatemala just agreed to