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China Iphone United States Technology

Your Next iPhone Might Be Made in Vietnam. Thank the Trade War. (nytimes.com) 173

No country on earth has benefited from President Trump's trade fight with China more than Vietnam. From a report: The country's factories have swelled with orders as American tariffs cause companies to reconsider making their products in China. Now, more big technology firms are looking to bulk up their manufacturing operations in Vietnam, lifting the ambitions of a nation already well on its way to becoming a powerhouse maker of smartphones and other high-end gadgets. First, though, Vietnam needs to get better at making the little plastic casings on your earbuds.

Vu Huu Thang's company in the northern city of Bac Ninh, Bac Viet Technology, produces small plastic parts for Canon printers, Korg musical instruments, and Samsung cellphones and phone accessories, including earbuds. He said it would be hard for his firm to compete against Chinese suppliers as long as he had to buy 70 to 100 tons of imported plastic material every month, most of it made in China. "Vietnam cannot compare with China," Mr. Thang said. "When we buy materials, it's 5, 10 percent more expensive than China already." And the Vietnamese market is too small, he said, to entice plastic producers to set up plants here.

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Your Next iPhone Might Be Made in Vietnam. Thank the Trade War.

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  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @12:26PM (#59018388)
    Is because Donald Trump can't find it on a map.
    • Yeah but we invaded and fought in Vietnam so it wouldn't be communist like China

      Lolz lolz lolz

      • ask the Vietnamese, it's not 'communist like China'. of course, you've never been there.
        • It's actually kind of weird.

          I went to Vietnam (Saigon and surrounding environs. Yeah, the locals still say Saigon. But call it HCMC if you're ever in the north.) on vacation this year. And oh do they pay lip service to communism. The iconography is all there... hammers and sickles, red stars, gold stars on red backgrounds, portrait of Ho Chi Minh himself, and police, security guards, and even schoolchildren dressed up like soldiers. The war remembrance museum is right there in the middle of the city.

      • Yeah but we invaded and fought in Vietnam so it wouldn't be communist like China
        No, you invaded to help France to keep one of the last colonies anyone had on the planet. Supporting a military junta and dictatorship. Surprisingly the Vietnamese preferred to be free, regardless of "colour of the regime". Just the same as in Cuba.

      • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @02:09PM (#59019088)

        Yeah but we invaded and fought in Vietnam so it wouldn't be communist like China

        Actually we were invited in by the South to help in a civil war. And while the North was "communist" it was not a puppet of Russia nor China. There actually was an opportunity for the US to be friendly with a communist nation before we intervened in the civil war. Some of the senior leadership in the North were grateful to American military advisors who fought with them against the Japanese occupation during WW2. American military personnel were given positions of honor when attending some state events and parades (that's a big thing in the communist world). These leaders were open to relationships with the US. We f'd that all up by backing the French when they wanted Vietnam "back". In recent decades we have moved back towards our original relationship, a friendly one.

        The natural relationship between the US and Vietnam is friendly despite their communist government. China is their historical enemy. China considers any territory that was at some time controlled by any Chinese government of the past to be "Chinese" territory. They view Vietnam as belonging in their sphere of influence (and control), Vietnam doesn't see it that way, even communist Vietnam.

        • It was a civil war against communists who also were supporting commumists in Laos and Cambodia. The number one reason for entering the war was to stop the spread of communism. Russia gave $1 billion in aid in 3 years starting 1965. The weapons (tanks, aircraft, anti-aircraft missiles and batteries, etc.) faced were largely Russian.

          • by drnb ( 2434720 )

            It was a civil war against communists who also were supporting commumists in Laos and Cambodia. The number one reason for entering the war was to stop the spread of communism. Russia gave $1 billion in aid in 3 years starting 1965. The weapons (tanks, aircraft, anti-aircraft missiles and batteries, etc.) faced were largely Russian.

            Yes, the North accepted Russian and Chinese aid in a time or war. That does not mean they were predisposed to be a puppet. Note the Chinese/Vietnamese border war not long after the North's victory.

            Yes, the US viewed it as a domino effect but incorrectly assessed it was all controlled from Russia or China. It was not. Laos and Cambodian communists also had their own notions of how to run their country and checking with Russia or China was not part of the plan. The US wanted to prevent Russian and Chinese

            • I was alive then, don't know why arguing the phrase "russian puppet" means anything.

              It very much was about "the spread of communism"

              • by drnb ( 2434720 )

                I was alive then, don't know why arguing the phrase "russian puppet" means anything. It very much was about "the spread of communism"

                I was alive then too, grew up watching the war on TV, grew up around vets. Yes the publicly stated rationale for the war, the reason told the public and soldiers, was to stop "the spread of communism", but that was the sales pitch. However the notion of communism being portrayed was false, a Russian led global conspiracy and hegemony. Certainly Russia wanted that hegemony but various communist countries did not, and some saw no problem with friendly relations with the west. Again, Vietnam fit that model pri

                • wow you have the rose colored glasses on.

                  The current communist government of Viet Nam ruthlessly oppresses dissenters with jail, torture, beatings and firebombings with hired thugs. It is a police state without freedom of speech. Moderate?

                    the head of Cambodia Hun Sen now is dyed in the wool former khmer rouge, holding power with his former commie cronies ruthlessly oppressing the political opposition, throwing people off their land to seize it and is puppet of viet nam.

    • by Z80a ( 971949 )

      Even if he can find it on a map, he can't sell a commecial war on it.
      It don't roll the tongue as "chaina".

  • So? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @12:30PM (#59018418)

    Maybe I'm missing something, but so what? Who cares where the widget is made? If your pro-local then China vs Vietnam doesn't change anything. If you want cheaper product, again this doesn't change anything.

    However, what this DOES do is hurt China. If companies are moving manufacturing out of China and into other countries, then China is the clear loser. That would put pressure on China to make a deal to relieve the tariffs. Seems like the tariffs are doing their job if this story is true.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 )

      I think the point is how failing Trumps Policies are.
      Tough Trading Restrictions on companies to bring in more Local Manufacturing, only leads to changing countries, as it is still more affordable then bringing it back into the US.

      Perhaps the US Manufacturing problem isn't caused by a bad trading regulations.

    • Maybe I'm missing something, but so what? Who cares where the widget is made? If your pro-local then China vs Vietnam doesn't change anything.

      While local would be ideal, manufactured in Vietnam is still a vast improvement over China. Aside from all the unfair trade practices you acknowledge, there remains the problem that China's communist party is modernizing and enlarging its military so that it can exert greater control over its neighbors through force or threatened force, and to engage in colonial-like activity in Africa and South America. So its not as simple as getting China to engage in fair trade, we still have their militaristic problems

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @12:32PM (#59018438)
    making US consumers less important to China. A lot of our power over them comes from how dependent they are on us buying their goods to drive their economy. China's well aware of that now and is investing to build markets as a hedge against us.
    • The market sees economic inequality as an inefficiency. Why manufacture stuff in a place where labor costs are high, when you can manufacture it in a place where labor costs are low? And it shifts production to those low-cost areas. Initially it was Japan, then Taiwan and Korea (and Mexico). Currently it's China. The influx of cash from those manufacturing jobs causes standard of living to rise in those low-cost areas, which raises prices, which causes people to demand higher wages, which raises wages,
      • talking about it like it's alive makes it sound like it's a force of nature. It's not. Humans make the market. We can make it anything we want it to be. The key is we have to put effort into making it something good.

        There's been a lot of talk from the left wing here in America and one of the points that keeps coming up is the market should serve the people, not the other way around.

        I agree it's too late for us to dominate manufacturing employment. We're still a major manufacturer though, we just don
        • by Anonymous Coward

          and you actually gave the reason: humans make the market.

          And humans see things. They are also alive, and last I checked humans are a part of nature, so yes you can even say we're a force of nature.

          There's been a lot of talk from the left wing here in America and one of the points that keeps coming up is the market should serve the people, not the other way around.

          I'm sorry the left wing in your America is so stupid to say something so stupid, and repeat it so many times at that.

          See, since humans make the market, so saying "market should serve the people" just means "people should serve people", so turning it "other way around" doesn't do anything. At best you're playing mu

  • Nonsense (Score:5, Funny)

    by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @12:37PM (#59018480) Homepage Journal

    All electronics will always be made cheaply in Japan.
     
    Signed,
    80s Guy

  • I mean, who cares? China, Vietnam, for all I care they can assemble it in Iran, in the end it doesn't create any jobs here either way.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Apple cares. If it is 5% more expensive to build an iPhone that is out of their pocket because they have hit the pricing ceiling already.

      • by dwpro ( 520418 )

        A company that sells a luxury product with ungodly margins will have to contemplate slightly smaller profits while sitting on a $245 billion in cash reserves. My tears aren't coming, maybe I'm clutching my head in agony wrong.

    • You want healthy competition between your suppliers, for one thing.
  • Reparations (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sound+vision ( 884283 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @12:46PM (#59018546) Journal
    Never thought Trump would be the one making us pay reparations to Vietnam... whatever works I guess. Probably part of the deal he worked out with the Party in China.
    • Somehow I don't think corporations employing slave labor in third-world countries has anything to do with Trump, or can be called "reparations".

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Chromal ( 56550 )
        "Hidden camera footage obtained by HBO's VICE show migrant workers building the Trump International Golf Club in Dubai living in squalor. In a clip from the episode set to air this Friday, correspondent Ben Anderson follows a bus full of workers as they depart the golf site and drive two hours into the desert to retreat to their grimy, overstuffed living quarters including a bathroom "that doesn't look fit for human beings." One worker complains that Pakistan was better than being in Dubai but he cannot go
        • by Anonymous Coward

          Same with all the other workers building other golf clubs. If they really cared about the issue, they wouldn't be pointing out only a single instance. Instead, it's just a bullshit an attack story against Trump.

          How many little kids did it take to make your shoes you fucking scumbag? Off with your head for supporting those engaged in childhood slavery. You're basically a slave owner yourself. If you stopped buying new shoes, those kids would be able to live happy, joyful lives full of wonder instead of

  • That's the whole point. If China won't play fair and insist on dumping and forced-IP-transfer then they don't get to trade with us. I don't remember hearing about any forced IP transfers in Vietnam. Let the Chinese eat cake. They want to badmouth the US and blame us for problems in Taiwan and Hong Kong? Okay fine. When do the tariffs go up to 1000% on them? I can't fucking wait. I've got all the flip flops, Christmas lights, and lead-painted toys I need.
  • Just fish it out of the ocean...

    Vietnam is now his personal Vietnam

  • by Hadlock ( 143607 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @01:04PM (#59018674) Homepage Journal

    We took a tour through VIetnam, in particular going from the city of Hanoi to the local tourist area a few hours east.
     
    Driving through the country especially just leaving the city, there are miles and miles of brand new, white factories encapsulating 5+ acres each. They have names like Foxconn and Cannon on them. And the cost of living in vietnam is about 50-75% the cost of living in china. As China comes online as part of the first world their cost of living goes up, manufacturing is going to leave China for cheaper locations.
     
    Vietnam is pretty convenient as they have a rail link with China on their northern border, direct sea access from Hanoi to major Chinese ports, etc. Probably everything assembled in China will end up moving to Vietnam or other cheap countries in southeast asia over the next 20 years.

  • My three favorite MSM lies about the tariffs. #1. Producers don't pay the tariffs, consumer do. (Wrong, truth is: importers do. They typically do no pass along price increases, preferring instead to switch suppliers or eat the difference as not to lose their customers. Solution: Switch from China to anywhere else. It's not like they have a monopoly on anything, they are pathetic copy-artists). #2. Tariffs will dramatically raise consumer prices. (Wrong. The consumer price index is growing more slowly now th
    • by shilly ( 142940 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @02:05PM (#59019072)

      Do you know what I enjoyed most about your post? It was the part that summed up everything about you: the part where you said "My three favorite MSM lies"... and then listed 4 things. It is a perfect encapsulation of being triumphantly wrong about everything.

      • You know what I find most interesting about *your* post: It utterly fails to rebut a single fact I made. Instead you are butthurt I threw in a bonus fact that destroys your world-view. *YAWN*
        • by shilly ( 142940 )

          I don't know why you think I'd want to rebut your post. Why would I bother doing that? You're confirmed in your view. There's nothing I or anyone could say that would make you change the object that passes for your mind. So I won't bother with that pointless activity. Instead, I'll just laugh at the stupidity of someone who says: 'My three favorite lies' and then lists four. And then tries to cover up by saying 'oh but one was a bonus'. Did the dog eat your homework too?

          Here's what non-stupid people do when

    • No, I am not a soybean farmer, but my cousin was -- he committed suicide in April because of historically low prices and no end in site.
      • I doubt your veracity, but even if you are telling the truth, your cousin was a moron. When farm futures contracts are canceled, it usually results in a lower price when the producer finds a new buyer. That price may be low enough that the farmer takes a loss. Most farmers realize they might eventually face this situation and put back something for that possibility or they end up having to sell off equipment or land to compensate. None of that is life or death - it's a business. He made the choice to bitch
    • How is point 2 not shown as a second order effect of point 1? As in, if point 1 holds and importers/maybe some producers don't want to raise price, how is that shown as removed from the CPI increase calculation?

  • by k6mfw ( 1182893 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @01:19PM (#59018774)

    I remember Vietnam as the war that kept going on and on, and the mighty US couldn't defeat those "little guys in black pajamas." Nowadays Vietnam is becoming a manufacturing giant. In between there was a article of many foreign companies trying to start up factories but the corruption caused many delays to a point many companies gave up. But seems like they have made some progress. And for many people Vietnam War is as distant as the War of 1812 (hard to imagine Brits invading and burning down the White House). I wonder what if we didn't get involved in such a conflict after the French pulled out.

    I wonder how quality control of clothing will be for stuff made in Vietnam. Stuff from China including "high quality" is pretty bad. In fact much of the clothing is disposable which causes landfill problems. Even Africa is beginning to refuse 2nd hand clothes like China is refusing our trash.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    China invaded Vietnam after we left and promptly had their ass handed to them.
    Vietnam hates China so much they like us again.
    I can only see this as a huge fuck you to China from both Vietnam and US and it makes me happy.

  • They've been pushing Vietnam and elsewhere because labor costs have been growing in China. Has nothing to do with Trump. The fact that Vietnam can build an iPhone is proof of that. You can't snap your fingers and plop production down anywhere. You need supply chain and expertise.

    The Chamber of Commerce has been planning this for a long time.
  • Make Vietnam Great Again!

  • by reanjr ( 588767 ) on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @03:04PM (#59019548) Homepage

    I'd much rather see American consumers funneling money to our partners in SE Asia rather than to China.

  • Personally, I would try to bring back cheap manufacturing back to Mexico and South/Central America. I think there is a lot of opportunity there, and would help those economies out which help limit immigration.

    I guess there are a lot of stability issues, but those mostly stem from corporate abuse / corporate takeover. I think strong political ties with the people and a slow (emphasis slow) march south would help with that.

"Facts are stupid things." -- President Ronald Reagan (a blooper from his speeach at the '88 GOP convention)

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