Jony Ive Left Apple Because of CEO Tim Cook's Lack of Interest in Product Design, Report Says (theverge.com) 140
To many, Jony Ive's departure from Apple last week felt very sudden. But a narrative is forming to suggest that he's been slowly drifting apart from the company for several years as the iPhone maker's priorities shifted from product design to operations. Here are some of the highlights from The Wall Street Journal [paywalled] piece: Ive was "dispirited" by Tim Cook who "showed little interest in the product development process," according to sources speaking to the WSJ. Ive grew increasingly frustrated as Apple's board was populated by directors with backgrounds unrelated to the company's core business. Ive disagreed with "some Apple leaders" on how to position the Apple Watch. Ive pushed for the Apple Watch to be sold as a fashion accessory, not as an extension of the iPhone. The product that went on sale was a compromise. Apple only sold a quarter of what the company forecasted in the first year, according to the WSJ, with "thousands" of the $17,000 gold Apple Watch Edition left unsold. Further reading: 'Apple is Not in Trouble Because Jony Ive is Leaving, It Is in Trouble Because He's Not Being Replaced'.
Form over function EVERY SINGLE TIME (Score:1)
For years Apple has reduced functionality of their products and I blame Ive.
Typical designer -- form over function. Pretty at the expense of useful.
Good riddance.
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Why blame Ive? Cook is the CEO.
Things have been getting worse "for years", as you say - ever since Jobs died. I blame Cook.
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Re: Form over function EVERY SINGLE TIME (Score:2)
What started around the time Cook came in (but not necessarily because of him) is the complete takeover of the company by the suits. This definitely compounds the problem, but it existed nearly from the beginning.
Re: Form over function EVERY SINGLE TIME (Score:2)
Yep, it's a fat corpse, time for the business worms to clean it up. They will feast on it for many years.
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Function did not demand a notch as numerous other designers have shown. Apple simply lacked the manufacturing wherwithall to make a round cutout in the screen, or some other stupid reason that led to that brain damaged styling. The entertaining thing is, how all the zombie Apple cultists try to pretend it doesn't suck as much as it obviously does. Yah yah yah, the emperor _duz_ have clothes on, She so _duz_!!!
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And as usual, Apple off on their own doing teh suck.
Re: Form over function EVERY SINGLE TIME (Score:1)
Apple sells stuff easily. So it continues to sell the right stuff. It isn't a boutique. Could Apple license super high end designs to a boutique to make million dollar watches? Of course, but Ive would be useless in that case because he's stuck in his obtuse ways. As soon as you say the words Apple and watch there's not a lot of design needed to see what all the final products ought to be. Ive likely wanted more credit an power than he even remotely deserved.
Replay (Score:2)
Hostory repeating itself?
Re: Replay (Score:2)
s/ho/hi/g
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No, because unless they've managed Dr. Frankenstein's formula and have a shovel, they're not bringing Jobs back to right the ship this time.
Re:Replay (Score:4, Funny)
No, because unless they've managed Dr. Frankenstein's formula and have a shovel, they're not bringing Jobs back to right the ship this time.
There's no need to create a Frankenstein Monster . . . just feed everything Steve Jobs ever said and wrote into an AI system, and create a Steve Jobs AI Monster!
It would work like an amusement park Fortuneteller machine [wikipedia.org].
You just pop in a Bitcoin, and the AI Steve Jobs will tell you what design decisions to make, and reveal new, innovative product ideas!
Not surprisingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not surprisingly... (Score:5, Insightful)
Adjusting your Ego is always hard.
When companies change leadership, the old bosses favorite sometimes becomes the new bosses valued employee like everyone else. Even if you are a humble person, and doesn't try to get it to your head, it is a tough transitions. When you are your bosses favorite, your point of view and ideas are taken into strong consideration, while when you are not it just sounds like whining, and not playing with the team.
Jobs loved the Keynote address, and the adoring fans gushing over the newest product. Even if that product didn't sell well Jobs loved just wowing people with the product. Cook is far more reserved, he plays the keynote, but it isn't his driving motivation. He is more driving in selling a lot of products, getting them made quickly and at the door to meet demand. Less long lines waiting to get this product, just selling more product.
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Cook is far more reserved, he plays the keynote, but it isn't his driving motivation. He is more driving in selling a lot of products, getting them made quickly and at the door to meet demand. Less long lines waiting to get this product, just selling more product.
In other words, Apple is the next HP. Steve Jobs' demise marked the end of innovation at Apple and the beginning of its slow decline into mediocrity. Or maybe it will be lucky and transform itself like Microsoft has. Either way, it's not going to be the high flyer any more.
The market for smartphones and tablets is heavily saturated. Apple iPhones and iPads command a price premium because they are just...Apple. Everything just works. It's kinda cool. Otherwise, who cares.
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Not necessarily. Perhaps we will begin to see new changes to the products. As the Apple look and feel is based on Ive's vision of design. Gray, rounded rectangles.
Perhaps there were designs that Ives have rejected because it didn't fit his view, may be actually more popular.
Comparing HP and Apple isn't really fair. HP was trying to compete against IBM not Apple. Plus it growth was from acquisitions Buying Compaq, who bought Digital. Merging their product lines together... Apples growth was from the popula
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Adjusting your Ego is always hard.
Company direction is hugely dependent on the people to support it. If the company direction changes but the people responsible for implementing the old direction don't then you're just not going to get along / feel valued. Ego has zero to do with it.
You have a job you're good at. The only real mistake you can make is trying to battle through a transition to fit a company mold in which you're not suited.
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And yet Cook oversaw the removal of the headphone jack, removal of ports on the Macbook, the butterfly keyboard... All in the name of style over function.
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Thank you (Score:3)
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How soon?
You idiots have been saying this since "no wireless, less space than a nomad, lame". Go up to a random person on the street and ask them if they remember the nomad MP3 player. They'll probably spray you with mace.
Apple made about 500x more profit last quarter than Creative made all last year.
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Apple is in decline. Android is eating their lunch, and they've reached market saturation for their products. They best they can achieve is doing what Microsoft has done and cannibalize their customers.
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Apple is a brand which will shortly transition out of making it's own products and will license others to make them. Apple will become a bank just as Facebook is attempting to become. Ditching it's current design style is just part of that move.
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Actually, I've been saying all along that Apple is an cynical unethical self serving drain on the American economy with overtones of scientology cultism, and I was always right.
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Jobs was a visionary, Cook is not.
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... as zombie corps of that size abound.
One of the biggest being the Android community.
Ha Ha Ha no (Score:2)
Apple is resting on its laurels
That statement makes you look like a fool after everything they announced at WWDC - both software and hardware....
I'm nit sure they have ever had such a feature packed year. Rather than "resting", Apple is accelerating to attack speed.
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Yes, I'm sure the three people they sell that new Mac & new monitor to will result in a quite handsome bump in quarterly profits and continue to drive brand recognition.
One of them might even buy the $999 monitor stand!
So it's Ive's fault, then (Score:1)
The first Watch sucked, only recently has it gotten better. It's never going to be a fashion statement to wear a mimi iPhone on your wrist, but people will wear it if it's useful, waterproof, and the battery can last all day.
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To me, the only way a device like that is going on my wrist is if it is itself the actual phone. If I have to have a smartphone to use it, I may as well just use my smartphone.
If anything the market should be for a fully network connected phone on the wrist, with an optional touchscreen device similar to an MP3 player that one can carry in one's pocket and use for advanced functions, with a potential slate of peripherals to interface with the wrist-phone depending on one's needs.
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My watch _is_ an mp3 player. The thing it doesn't do is mobile telephony - which is fine, because a watch sized battery just isn't going to last if you add those radios.
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Actually it is Cooks fault. What Jobs was famous for was his reality distortion field. He really sold the product well, Jobs would had done a better job at showing how useful the original iWatch is, not just an expensive accessory. I do not have an iWatch, mostly because I don't like the way it looks, and its function doesn't offer me much if anything then the phone I carry around all the time offers.
I would like phones be shaped like Fob Watches that way you can carry one around with style.
Re:So it's Ive's fault, then (Score:5, Interesting)
People always throw around that wishy washy term "reality distortion field". What created Jobs and what he always burned for was that computing should be possible for everyone. He started Apple when computers usually required trained personnel and he emphatically felt this was wrong. All through his career he worked to make functionality easily available. He also understood that design and function are not opposites, they have to come together.
Of course his other great passion was money, if you can make tech work for everybody you can sell more. He was a greedy visionary and great showman.
I don't enjoy the term "reality distortion field" because he never lied much, even if selling aggressively. For example for new features he'd say "first iPhone that can do this", rather than "We invented this". He also required that Powerbook and MacBook battery life estimates were conservative when everybody else were wildly exaggerating.
There are things to dislike about Apple; secrecy, slow to acknowledge defects on premium products (all companies have defects) if at all, tax havens. But the truth is that there's good and bad sides, like with so many things in life. And with every generational change the company changes, more or less. I feel Apple could do well by replacing Tim Cook with a younger more flexible person whose brain isn't too much in logistics.
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The original Mac was a catastrophe. It was supposed to cost $1,000, and was built as an 8-bit architecture to meet that goal. Jobs rose the price to $2,000, promised the sky and more, and Apple ended up selling it for $2,500. If it weren't for strong Apple][ sales, the Mac would have buried the company.
Remember why the Apple III was a trainwreck. It was built from the ground up for the business market and didn't meet any of their needs. It was overpriced, unreliable, and a piece of junk -- largely due
Re: So it's Ive's fault, then (Score:2)
Re: So it's Ive's fault, then (Score:1)
Uh what...
He never lied much?
This coming from a company who approved of a public message of 'no reasonable person would believe (us)'?
That's a HUGE reality distortion field you're in. Did you remember all the shit you were promised when it's voice assistant came out? Things that you still can't do today? Lying and concealing to maintain a pristine innovative image is their #1 thing. I mean, taking (and removing) a $2 voice assistant app that could run on *ALL* of their devices, adding no features an
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Reality Distortion Field doesn't refer to Jobs, it refers to his fanboys.
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My smart watch is only rated for 100m so it's not a proper diving watch, but it's useful and the battery can last all day while tracking me on GPS. If I don't switch on the tracking it'll last all week.
It also looks a fuck of a lot better than any Apple Watch, including the gold one. That's true whether I use the sporty rubber band or the professional solid titanium bracelet.
Re:The Graveyards Are Full of Indispensable Men (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a good life lesson.
If you work hard to make you Indispensable to your work. Then if you have a good boss, they will work hard to make sure your scope of work is very limited, and managed so you can be replaced. Because placing the company on one person, who can be killed on their commute, get ill, or found a new job elsewhere. Isn't a good business model. Even if such an employee is really that much better then everyone else, the boss will need to lower the bar so others can take over.
I have made my career taking over indispensable people who have left the company. Where the bulk of my work, is simplifying what they do down to a manageable level and get it to a point where they don't need me anymore, but just want me.
Good now we can get an $1599-$2999 desktop mac! (Score:2)
Good now we can get an $1599-$2999 desktop mac!
They don't even support WatchOS for the gold watch (Score:3)
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So in a sense this designer was right, they screwed up the marketing. They should have sold it as a status-symbol to rich people that want to impress each other, because that's just about all it's good for.
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They shouldn't have made it at all because it isn't even good for what you stated. If a rich person wants to impress with a watch it isn't going to be an ugly Apple watch. It'll be an heirloom watch. Think AP, Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin, etc. Those are works of art with true craftsmanship (and they often appreciate in value). The rich folk that couldn't care less about heirloom status and just want cutting edge hardware probably understand that said hardware will be "cutting edge" for 6 months
Cook made the right decision (Score:5, Insightful)
If that's true, then Cook was right and Ive was wrong. If I want a "fashion accessory", the last thing I'll do is buy a multi-thousand dollar watch that would become obsolete in a couple of years. A Rolex is a fashion accessory; an Apple Watch (which I own and like) is a wearable computing device.
Given that Ive is probably the person primarily responsible for the sad state of the current crop of MacBook Pro laptops, then it is past time for him to move on.
Re:Cook made the right decision (Score:4, Interesting)
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I highly agree. The Apple Watch might be worn as a status symbol by some, but in reality, the electronics in it will go out of date in a few years and have similar replacement cycles like a phone (perhaps a tad longer, maybe 4-5 years). A nice watch can run for decades (with minor maintenance) and could be passed down through generations.
I think there's more than one kind of fashion, like you have the timeless classics and then you have the period-specific fashions that makes this the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s etc. where Apple could have had something iconic for a few years. Think more like fidget spinners or Fortnite dances than Rolex.
Re:Cook made the right decision (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed. Jony was wrong on what the driving force between a smart watch is. There is a portion of it that *is* conspicuous consumption. But the purchaser justifies their decision based on what the watch *does.*
If you have access to the WSJ, you should read the entire article. Basically it sounds like after the Apple Watch 0 sold 25% of expected units (an almost none of the "for fashion" units) that Jony sorta ... walled himself off. Was increasingly absent from keep design meetings. And generally caused a lot of decision paralysis by being left in a spot of "authority" that everybody bowed to but then was absent.
Apple will be better for him leaving. If nothing else it'll force them to clean up the management structure in their design department. It'll allow the other good designers (that I know apple has) to step out of the shadow of an absent giant.
What Cook did wrong, that Jobs would have corrected is simply: Jobs would have told Jony to get his act straight and do his job or fired him years ago.
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If that's true, then Cook was right and Ive was wrong.
Not at all. Watches are fashion accessories regardless of the price, time is free. The product design doesn't exclusively reflect your conclusion and there's nothing to suggest that Ive was solely responsible for the stupid gold watch, nor that Cook was responsible for the cheaper ones. There is a huge world in-between that is being left open.
Honestly the $17000 gold watch is a stupid toy for rich idiots, and I say this with my $11000 Breitling gleaming on my wrist in the afternoon sun. But the key thing is
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Ive wasn't right about the "trash can" Mac Pro either. Or the "emoji touch bar" Macbook "Pro." Don't let the door hit you on the way out Jonny.
Partly that, partly wanted change (Score:2)
Ives also probably just wanted to shift to something different - which in large part is why he shifted to devoting a ton of time to Apple Park. As much work as that was, how much has Ives been involved in product design over the last few years anyway?
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Demoted.
Shock (Score:2, Interesting)
Apple only sold a quarter of what the company forecasted in the first year, according to the WSJ, with "thousands" of the $17,000 gold Apple Watch Edition left unsold.
What, there's actually a limited supply of pretentious douchebags with more money than sense? Say it isn't so! The world economy is built on catering to pretentious douchebags with too much money! Or Pay To Win games wouldn't have completely taken over...
Another sign of a looming recession. Won't someone think of the pretentious douchebags?
So let’s see (Score:4, Informative)
We’re told that Ive wanted the watch to be a fashion accessory. We’re also told that thousands of the gold watches - which were all about spending tons of money on fashion and wealth signaling - were left unsold.
So it would appear that Ive was blazingly wrong.
Re:So let’s see (Score:4, Interesting)
You're falling into the same logic trap that many others here are falling into (must be a Slashdot thing). The fact that a stupidly overpriced watch failed is not even remotely related to the concept of a fashion accessory being wrong. Watches are fashion accessories, regardless if they are priced for stupid rich douchbags, or priced for an ordinary person, and diamond crusted Rolex shit aside the price and the looks often have no relation to each other.
Apple's current offerings looks like cheap toys, the kind of crappy Swatch you give your daughter as a birthday present. But they are functional. Ive's point was they could also look good while doing so, not that every watch needs to be priced so only C suites can afford them.
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Explains a lot (Score:2)
When the design lead is focused on the artistic side, and the rarefied fashion accessories you necessarily leave the rank and file to languish.
The Pro line is a fine example. A Xeon box to keep professionals productive is not hard, plenty of non-Apple companies make them with out waiting years between refreshes.
The Mac Mini similarly went for too long between updates and now is priced obscenely compared to the segment it is aimed at.
More Opinion than Fact (Score:4, Interesting)
I've read a few of these articles and most are heavily opinionated that "Apple is drifting and look who recently left -- that proves it !!"
"Way back when" Apple didn't have a concrete vision and floundered - needing Jobs to come back. A new growth cycle is beginning and maybe it's time he moved on. He did a lot of great things and helped build a huge amount of good-will capital for Apple. Now Apple needs to spend that and re-envision its future. Apple knows that fewer people are buying phones, whether it be Price or Saturation, it's reached a plateau.
Apple is changing. Old people who wish the company could still live the glory days should leave !! Apple is, maybe NEEDs to, move to be a content provider (or something else). Whether it be Music or Movies etc. Everyone makes a phone just like everyone makes TVs. Now that everyone has an iPhone, where next should Apple grow? Apple was wise to stop reporting on device sales - they don't want to be known as a device-only company.
I ask: Can the chief Hardware designer drive Content growth?
My concern would be - do I trust that Apple is capable of Change and do they see and/or have a vision of what the future is... and can they execute on that vision?
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It is amazing... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Melt them down, throw in some cheap alloy and make a throne out of them. Maybe, build in a high intensity seat throbber to better entertain the emperor.
Apple? innovation? (Score:4, Insightful)
Unique butterfly (Score:2)
Ive is leaving because he got away with his childish behavior, and when called out for the massive fiscal harm long after, has decided to run away.
Jobs better knew how to treat that child. A harsh, sometimes proactively random whopping to keep the kid in check.
Computers are commodities... (Score:2)
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Except that well is only dry to people with no vision.
The well was dry to a lot of 'technology visionaries' 20 year ago, then BAM, iPod... then iPhone... then tablet.
Hmmm. MS, the 800 pound gorilla they are, could get a damn phone people where interested in.
Apple died ... (Score:1)
... the day Steve Jobs died. It's just a big ol' dinosaur that doesn't yet know it is dead. It will take a couple of decades, but Apple is Cooked.
IMHO, it's the fault of the board of directors (Score:5, Interesting)
Dig into that article and you'll find out that the board is loaded with finance geeks who aren't interested in design let alone physical products. This is likely why there's been a big shift towards services instead of products. Ive isn't a service type of person. The real risk here is whether or not Apple going forward is going to fall back into the same grease trap that it got stuck in during the Sculley and Amelio years. When Jobs came back, he sh*tcanned several people on the board. A similar cleaning of Augeas' stables is in order (I'm looking at YOU, Al Gore).
Full disclosure: I'm a big Mac fan and stockholder. That said, I'm typing this on a 7-year old Macbook Pro because I haven't seen any compelling reason to replace it to the tune of $2000-3000. I have high hopes for the rumored 16-inch Macbook Pro coming this fall though. I don't own or really want a watch because I've gotten to the point in my life where I would have to put on glasses to see it and that seriously detracts from the user experience.
As far as Ive is concerned, people get burned out. Maybe he doesn't have any really good ideas anymore that aren't going to get stolen in three weeks by Samsung/Google/Microsoft.
Easy way (Score:2)
They'll sell an iPad and an iPhone to 8 billion people and ask an arm and a leg for it, why risk changing that?
Cook (Score:4, Interesting)
Cook is a logistics man, and always will be.
He doesn't understand design, he doesn't understand what it take to develop a new product.
Ive got a problem (Score:4, Funny)
Steve Jobs predicted how Apple IS failing (Score:1)
He can't go to hell soon enough. (Score:1)
"Ive pushed for the Apple Watch to be sold as a fashion accessory, not as an extension of the iPhone."
Let him work for Cartier if that's what he cares about, he ruined the MacBook Pro series by constantly removing ports and making the interior inaccessible to the pros who needed that access.
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