Apple Music Caught Censoring Pro-Democracy Music In China (gizmodo.com) 117
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Gizmodo: Chinese journalists and netizens recently found that Apple Music's Chinese streaming service censored a song by Hong Kong singer Jacky Cheung that references the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests, an extremely politically sensitive topic for the Chinese Communist Party. The incident's 30th anniversary is coming up in June. Sophie Richardson, the China Director at Human Rights Watch, called the reported move "spectacularly craven." The Tiananmen protests are emblematic of a larger pro-democracy movement in China that was snuffed out by the Beijing government. Thousands of protesters were killed, but the exact numbers have themselves been censored by Chinese government officials.
Apple Music has also reportedly censored Anthony Wong and Denise Ho, two pro-democracy singers. After being noticed by Chinese netizens, the removals were reported by the Hong Kong Free Press and The Stand, two Hong Kong-based news outlets. Taiwan News also reported the censorship of Cheung's "Ren Jian Dao." The music remains available on Apple Music's North American products. "By removing a song referring the Tiananmen Massacre, @apple is actively participating in the Chinese Communist Party's agenda of scrubbing the colossal violations it has committed against the Chinese people from collective memory and rewriting history," tweeted Yaqiu Wang, a Chinese researcher with Human Rights Watch.
Apple Music has also reportedly censored Anthony Wong and Denise Ho, two pro-democracy singers. After being noticed by Chinese netizens, the removals were reported by the Hong Kong Free Press and The Stand, two Hong Kong-based news outlets. Taiwan News also reported the censorship of Cheung's "Ren Jian Dao." The music remains available on Apple Music's North American products. "By removing a song referring the Tiananmen Massacre, @apple is actively participating in the Chinese Communist Party's agenda of scrubbing the colossal violations it has committed against the Chinese people from collective memory and rewriting history," tweeted Yaqiu Wang, a Chinese researcher with Human Rights Watch.
Democracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Because nothing is more threatening to a walled garden.
Re: (Score:1)
Because nothing is more threatening to a walled garden.
That statement may not be understood by the masses as well as you assume.
The only "walled garden" most Americans know about is the first-world problem of the iGarden, which ironically is run by a liberal company within a democracy.
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Stepping back a bit, Apple will likely never make money from military defense even if they wanted to, so avoiding that market doesn't hurt Apple very much. However telling China to go shove off will cost them billions in profits. It's easy to hold up to one's own ideals when money is not involved.
When there's a lot of money on the table is becomes much easier to rationalize things away, justify your actions, blame others, and do forth. Such as saying that the board of directors is giving the orders and no
Re:Democracy (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Democracy (Score:4, Funny)
Just like everyone else. Don't rock the boat. Rebrand 'prison camp' to 'walled garden'.
How dare you think you should be able to make a repair instead of buying the latest thing we tell you to buy!
Complaining about the lack of a headphone jack is a sign of cowardice comrad.
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A: There, their, they're
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Business as usual (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is not in the business of free speech, they're in the business of making money. If censoring one song means they can keep making money, they will.
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I'm not sure he said anything was OK.
Re: Business as usual (Score:4, Insightful)
Companies are required to obey the law. Apple didn't make the law requiring certain terms and topics to be censored in China, but they are required to obey it, just like they are required to obey censorship laws in other countries, including America.
It is not the job of western corporations to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese.
Could always pull out of China (Score:5, Insightful)
Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.
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Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.
Good luck if anyone expects apple to choose morals when sales are on the line. And I don't think apple would be willing to risk all that sweet, sweet sweatshop labour.
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There is no "moral" choice, because Apple's actions are not going to change anything either way.
These are the choices Apple faces:
1. Stay in China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.
2. Leave China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.
This is the famous Serenity Prayer [wikipedia.org]:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
The problem is not that Apple lacks courage, but that you lack wisdom.
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Leaving China DOES do something to help solve China's problems, by demonstrating that major international corporations will refuse to do business will a genocidal tyrannical regime.
Staying in China and helping the government censor does not only not help fix China's problems, it makes them worse! It's anti-helping!
Wisdom comes in recognizing the consequences of actions. You either lack it, or you're another loser pro-China troll (which is much the same thing).
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There is no "moral" choice, because Apple's actions are not going to change anything either way.
These are the choices Apple faces:
1. Stay in China, and do nothing to fix China's problems. 2. Leave China, and do nothing to fix China's problems.
This is the famous Serenity Prayer [wikipedia.org]:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.
The problem is not that Apple lacks courage, but that you lack wisdom.
There's also a difference between seeing a pool of shit and diving on in anyway because that's where the gold is and saying, I don't want to swim in this, I have enough gold.
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That would require courage and principles in the face of profits.
Google partnering with Chinese gov't too (Score:4, Insightful)
Google complied with Chinese law by ceasing to do business in China. I imagine that opponents of censorship would prefer that Apple follow suit.
And then Google changed its mind and started making surveilance/censorship software for China. Google has also partnered with the Chinese government.
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Companies are required to obey the law. Apple didn't make the law requiring certain terms and topics to be censored in China, but they are required to obey it, just like they are required to obey censorship laws in other countries, including America.
The Chinese government kills people deemed to be threats. Apple, Google, et al. obey Chinese censorship laws. People outside of China (e.g., on slashdot) criticize China and Apple, Google, et al., and that initial criticism is further criticized.
This is all as it should be in a civil society, with the possible exception of the first part.
It is not the job of western corporations to "fix" China. That is up to the Chinese.
Here on slashdot, we're not trying to fix China. The China detractors are under no delusion that they have any non-zero influence on the Chinese government. Rather, the
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Companies are required to obey the laws of the countries that they do business in, that is true. There is no requirement however that a company must to business in all countries. There's a greed factor that keeps Apple in China.
There's also a sort of middle ground. Be slow and lax to respond to the law. They could let these songs be available for one or two weeks before shutting them off, letting them get out there while still being able to say "whoops, we had some internal process issues preventing us
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Same AC as above. It's not OK with me, but apparently it's OK with them. I'm just explaining the rationale. I didn't make any judgments whether it's good or bad, right or wrong. Apple will do whatever they want to do anyway.
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So whatever makes them money is OK with you?
It's certainly ok with apple.
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For example I can say: Trump is president.
That does not mean I am saying it is OK or Not OK for that matter. It is just a simple fact.
It is a simple fact that Apple, like any publicly traded corporation, will do anything to make money without any moral consideration whatsoever. That is their legal duty as a publicly traded corporation.
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Apple is not in the business of free speech, they're in the business of making money. If censoring one song means they can keep making money, they will.
We were just going along with orders mein herr!
Apple caught Censoring NAZI movies in germany (Score:3)
Local laws and regulations require Censoring. Look at germany. Look at France. where certain historical items are not allowed for trade like nazi gear.
And even look at the US where you have to censor crypto when sold overseas. You used not to be able to advertise if you were a lawyer. You can't advertise cigarettes near schools and other venues for minors. You also can't sell certain drugs, not just illicit drugs, in the US that are legal in europe.
Ronald Reagan banned envionmentalists from canda (Farl
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Local laws and regulations require Censoring. Look at germany. Look at France. where certain historical items are not allowed for trade like nazi gear. And even look at the US where you have to censor crypto when sold overseas. You used not to be able to advertise if you were a lawyer. You can't advertise cigarettes near schools and other venues for minors. You also can't sell certain drugs, not just illicit drugs, in the US that are legal in europe.
Ronald Reagan banned envionmentalists from canda (Farley Mowatt).
Countries ban things that offend their sensibilities.
This is more like saying you're not allowed to talk about the whole slavery thing.
Sensitive (Score:3)
Hypocrisy (Score:1)
Coming from the far left who want to ban speech they don't like.
Re:Hypocrisy (Score:5, Insightful)
Liberals = shit (Score:1, Interesting)
Nope, the left is the censorship movement.
I like the "both sides are equally bad" arguments from liberals. Its them finally admitting liberals are shit and they know it. They use the "both sides are equally bad" to justify them staying liberal even thought they know it is shit.
Other great liberal positions:
Support KKK member as VA gov
Support serial rapist as VA lt. gov
Support killing live born babies and calling it abortion
Support illegals killing US citizens and protect them from consequences like jail o
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Re: (Score:1, Troll)
Nope, the left is the censorship movement.
When you can make your point without name calling and using racial or ethnic slurs, I might be inclined to support at least your right to speak. If you can't do that, then nothing you say has value.
When the points you make are not supportable by good data, people are inclined to filter you out because who cares what you say based on things you either made up or are just spreading around because your friend said it. If you have a valid argument that is being censor
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Only read your first sentence. There were no ethnic slurs, you lied because you can't help but be shit.
Look back over last 4 years and see EVERY liberal calling me a racist, bigot, homophobe and you not ONCE calling them out.
You are also shit. The DNC/liberals ARE the party of the KKK (see gov of VA) there is no debating it. You don't like being called shit or a racist, then don't support the KKK.
Don't support killing live born babes, don't support illegals killing US citizens and calling us racists for
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There's a reason people don't listen to you, and you find yourself and your opinions not making it very far, and it has nothing to do with your politics.
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Ahh, the modern left. The party of projection. Classical liberals are great. Too bad there are seemingly none left.
There's a reason people don't listen to you
Projection! Someone said they did not listen to your tirade because of you lying in the first sentence. Of course the mature thing to do is say the same thing back.
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Look back over last 4 years and see EVERY liberal calling me a racist, bigot, homophobe and you not ONCE calling them out.
Referring to your history while using AC makes no sense. Going by posting history it is the AC who is the biggest racist, bigoted, *phobe ever. As for politics, AC is radically marxist, libertarian to the point of anarchy, and a totalitarian theocrat all at the same time.
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"Russian collusion is a proven fact, there is no argument about this topic."
Citation please.
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The Right is also the censorship movement. The Left and Right are both highly in favor of restricting speech that they disapprove of, it's just not the same speech that they want suppressed.
On the Right I see many who want to suppress right to have a free choice of religion (ie, anti-muslim), the right to give advice on abortions, and so forth. Historically the Right was for suppressing free speech with obscenity cases and pornography. Right wing governments across the planet are restricting the free pres
Expected (Score:2)
Everybody knew this was what they were going to do in China, no matter what they said, right?
Caught dealing in China in the first place (Score:5, Interesting)
"An American international company CAUGHT following/respecting local laws in a country they do business!!!"
Could be rephrased:
"An American international company CAUGHT doing business in the first place in a country where local law requires violating human rights!!!"
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The 'I was just following orders' defense went out at Nuremberg.
Apple is a profits-first company just like Google. You can see this clearly as they won't withdraw from OIC nations that hang people for the crime of being gay. (Four stores in Brunei alone!) Not on the list [businessinsider.nl] of companies boycotting Brunei. Apples Investor Relations team [apple.com] would love to hear from you, Im sure.
It is the law of their country (Score:5, Insightful)
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I am sure also apple music Germany is censoring selling pro nazi song sales. We may not like the law of *their* country, but apple has to respect local laws *where ever* it sells.
Yeah but Germany is basically a democracy with free citizens. China is a repressive autocracy that harvests organs from political prisoners.
Supporting one is not the same as supporting the other.
If they don't want to respect the law of a country, the solution is simply : don't sell to anybody in that country.
That does seem to be
It does not matter (Score:2)
Music is sinful (Score:2)
Welcome to Communist censorship.
In free Taiwan the real China people can listen to music.
Recall the 1989 Tiananmen Square pro-democracy protests.
Talk about the history of Communist China.
Look at cartoon bears.
Read books like 1984.
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For years Walmart wouldn't sell CDs with explicit lyrics. Can the Chinese Communist Party make business harder or impossible for Apple? Are they doing what they have to do to remain eligible to serve that market?
There's a difference though between a retailer choosing not to sell something and the government mandating no one can.
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So.. what about all the words you cant say on TV? The US govt seemed ok having the FCC fine people for saying specific words.
There was also Prohibition, where due to "social standards" liquor was "banned".
Then the Gold law, where you were forced to sell all gold to the US GVT at set prices.
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There was also Prohibition, where due to "social standards" liquor was "banned".
And how did that turn out?
apple is all RED China they will even unlock phone (Score:2)
apple is all RED China they will even unlock phones there but not help the FBI at all.
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It's in Apple's DNA (Score:3, Informative)
Apple has a history of censoring content in its platforms [wikipedia.org]. In this it seems that they're no different from many other major players. That's probably not surprising, given the symbiotic relationship between big corporations and governments. But there's an inconsistency here. On the one hand, Apple actively opposes US law enforcement's efforts to compromise users' private data. On the other hand, they seem to get behind censorship in a big way, sometimes even in support of totalitarianism.
People behave inconsistently - I guess entities that enjoy 'corporate personhood' exhibit similar behaviour.
welcome to China (Score:5, Insightful)
This article can be summed up with "company respects sovereignty of a country, and I'm outraged!"
Anyone doing business in China has to follow the laws, even if they don't align with the typical morals of the country where the business is based.
"Obey our laws or get out of China." It's just that simple.
TFA makes it sound like they have some magical 3rd choice and they're being evil for not "doing the right thing". It's pretty self-evident that they don't want to pack up and leave China, and removing a few songs from their store there (that are basically illegal to distribute in China) is a very small price to pay for them to stay in the market. Apple isn't above the law in China, they mow down large crowds of people trying to push this song's message, you don't think they will kick out Apple? This article is just trying to grab some headlines by reminding us that water is wet.
Re:welcome to China (Score:5, Insightful)
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This article can be summed up with "company respects sovereignty of a country, and I'm outraged!"
This article can be summed up as "company makes lots of money supporting the censorship of a repressive, autocratic and deeply unpleasant regime."
"Obey our laws or get out of China." It's just that simple.
Yes and the ethical thing is to just get out.
TFA makes it sound like they have some magical 3rd choice and they're being evil for not "doing the right thing".
Not really. They're pointing out the activity. You
So - no Guns and Roses then? (Score:2)
Cause, you know, Chinese Democracy [rollingstone.com] and all.
Re: Freedom Rock (Score:2)
I'm an old fart and I found this funny.
When I lived in China there were the 3 T's and X (Score:5, Interesting)
The Three T's and X were: Tibet, Tiananmen, Taiwan, and Xinjiang. It was made clear that we (the Westerners) had no knowledge or opinions on these topics. As such we have nothing to say about them.
One day a new assistant asked me about Tiananmen. I asked her what she knew. She told me that her history teacher told her that it was a beautiful park in Beijing where people fly kites. Her grandfather had told her something much more in line with what those of us who watched it life on TV saw.
I was not entirely sure about her at that point, so my answer to her was, "you should honour your grandfather."
She laughed and said, "that is so Chinese." However, she also understood my answer.
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Just to add, the X was not there when I started living in China, it was just the three T's. The X got added later.