Apple's Newest Macs Seem To Have a Serious Audio Bug (thurrott.com) 144
An anonymous reader writes: Apple's new Mac products might have a serious audio glitch for professional users. The company's newest Mac products with its T2 security chip suffer from a software-related bug that leads to issues with audio performance. The issue seemingly affects devices with the T2 chip -- that includes the iMac Pro, Mac Mini 2018, MacBook Air 2018, and MacBook Pro 2018. Although Apple's T2 chip is designed to offer improved security, it's affecting users in the pro audio industry.
As CDM reports, there is a bug in macOS that leads to dropouts and glitches in audio whenever a Mac automatically updates its system clock through the system time daemon. Users have been reporting the issue across a bunch of different pro audio forums for months, and it seems like the issue has never been acknowledged by Cupertino. The issue here is pretty simple to understand, as explained by a DJ software developer on Reddit: whenever the system time daemon automatically updates the system time, it somehow sends a 'pause-audio-engine' message to the kernel, leading to dropouts and glitches in audio.
As CDM reports, there is a bug in macOS that leads to dropouts and glitches in audio whenever a Mac automatically updates its system clock through the system time daemon. Users have been reporting the issue across a bunch of different pro audio forums for months, and it seems like the issue has never been acknowledged by Cupertino. The issue here is pretty simple to understand, as explained by a DJ software developer on Reddit: whenever the system time daemon automatically updates the system time, it somehow sends a 'pause-audio-engine' message to the kernel, leading to dropouts and glitches in audio.
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We get all the reports of Apple bugs here but never Dell bugs?
Because Dell doesn't talk shit like "you're holding it wrong", and because Dell hasn't tried to build a reputation as making computers which are easier to use than everyone else's. Also, because Dell seems to have less gigantic fuckups than Apple, per unit shipped.
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Because Dell doesn't talk shit like "you're holding it wrong",
No, they just build it wrong instead. Greatly preferable.
Re:How come (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember Dell's "It just works." and "Dell vs the rest of the PC industry" ad campaigns?
Oh, wait. That was Apple.
It's the same reason you don't generally see car companies doing ad campaigns around their competitor's recall mishaps. They all know "there but for the grace go I." Apple had to learn that lesson the hard way. A decade later and they're still living down that hubris.
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The way things are going, it seems like their hubris hasn't changed, and is in fact preventing them from learning from their mistakes.
I'm imagining the Simpsons Principal Skinner meme, but instead he says, "Am I out of touch? No, it's the customers who are wrong!"
Actually, let's do that right now.
https://i.imgflip.com/2u30ai.j... [imgflip.com]
Dell vs Apple (Score:4, Interesting)
Because Dell doesn't talk shit like "you're holding it wrong"
No instead they have Michael Dell saying shit about Apple like "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders" which turned out to be remarkably arrogant and increasingly foolish since he said it.
and because Dell hasn't tried to build a reputation as making computers which are easier to use than everyone else's.
Because they couldn't. Dell doesn't make the software that runs their PCs so they don't control enough of the process to even try. Apple more or less succeeded in doing that exact thing. Several times in fact with various iterations of MacOS and iOS. There is a reason Windows mimicked the Mac and Android followed the iPhone. Like them or hate them you cannot deny that Apple does do a good job making comparatively well designed and easy to use interfaces to their products. There is a reason every other PC and smartphone maker follows Apple's lead at least some of the time.
Also, because Dell seems to have less gigantic fuckups than Apple, per unit shipped.
Not historically they haven't. Dell's hardware is fine in general but they've had plenty of problems over the years. Measurably more than Apple most years if you believe the PC reliability rankings over the years. I'm not bashing Dell here (in fact I'm typing this on one of their PCs which I purchased with my own money) but let's not pretend they are something special among big computer makers.
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https://techcrunch.com/2011/10/18/michael-dell-on-the-infamous-apple-shut-it-down-quote-my-answer-was-largely-misconstrued/
Dell said that he initially refused to answer the original question in 1997, and after being asked to answer twice he basically responded “What would I do? I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders,” because he couldn’t imagine himself being CEO of any other company.
Dell went on, “The meaning of my answer was that I’m the CEO of Del
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No instead they have Michael Dell saying shit about Apple like "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders" which turned out to be remarkably arrogant and increasingly foolish since he said it.
It's not clear how arrogant and/or foolish it is, since the sun has not yet set on that argument. If Apple continues to prove that it's lost its way by refusing to listen to what customers are asking for, it may well turn out to be perfectly apt, albeit on a longer time scale than anyone expected. You can only call piss rain for so long before people get it in their eyes, and figure out that you're lying.
There is a reason Windows mimicked the Mac
Windows never mimicked Mac. Microsoft was on the Motif Working Group. Their GUI mimicked Unix, and vice
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Windows and Mac both just wanted to be the Amiga. They thought that meant fancy graphics and stuff but forgot to make their shit just work 100% of the time.
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Windows and Mac both just wanted to be the Amiga. They thought that meant fancy graphics and stuff but forgot to make their shit just work 100% of the time.
What? Go on, pull the other one. I've been an Amigan.
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There is a reason Windows mimicked the Mac
Are you talking about the original Mac? Because Xerox would like a word with you.
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I have to agree. I've been using dell for personal and professional equipment for more than a decade. I've never had any problems with dell support. On the professional side, shit just works, and when it doesn't they send someone out to make it work. Personal, I've had to send back a laptop for service. It was "yes sir, we'll get this fixed for you" and that was it. It was fixed and back in my hands in a week.
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Like the average businessinsider article, that article is garbage [slashdot.org].
Re:How come (Score:5, Funny)
Easy fix: remove the headphone jack. Users will stop complaining about audio quality; problem solved!
The T2 stuff is why I won't buy another Mac... (Score:3)
Because the T2 chip blocks access to the internal SSD when the security level is set to off, making it impractical to install Linux or another OS when Apple starts supporting that laptop, that is a deal killer for me
Disclaimer: I could be wrong, but I've not found anything that states one can both turn security off, and install Linux on the internal SSD on a T2 equipped Mac. You can turn security off and use external flash drive media, but the internal drive is inaccessible. It would be nice if Apple allowed the SSD to work, and provided support for Microsoft compliant shims, so one could have Secure UEFI boot to RedHat, Ubuntu, or other operating systems and have some faith that the kernel hasn't been tampered with.
Between this, and the other Mac issues (keyboard, audio), looks like my next MacBook Pro may be a Dell Latitude model, which in some ways is a better MBP than a MBP, if only because it supports USB-C, and USB-A without needing a dock or dongles.
Are you sure about that? (Score:5, Informative)
Because the T2 chip blocks access to the internal SSD when the security level is set to off,
I thought you could disable secure boot [apple.com] on the Mac, which should let you install any OS you like on the internal SSD...
I fully admit I've not tried that though so it could be there's some other aspect to that I did not know about. But this article [omgubuntu.co.uk] sure makes it look like that setting has the effect of letting you boot into Linux on a T2 Mac.
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That article is correct, ... providing you have another SSD or an external drive. You need to disable secure boot to be able to boot from another drive or another OS, but in doing so the T2 chips locks down the internal SSD.
At least that's the presumption. It could very well be that the drivers for the SSD are just missing since it's a proprietary controller and not an off the shelf NVMe drive, but what is known is that the SSD communicates via the T2 chip, and the T2 chip intentionally hides itself from th
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My understanding is the problem is there is no linux driver for the apple SSD. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/sh [kernel.org]...
Why would you buy over priced apple hardware just to install linux on it? There are any number of ryzen, or even intel, based laptops for half the price with better or greater performance. An these laptops tend to be a lot more penguin friendly. No weird apple shit to deal with.
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Well, by that argument, why would argue allow Linux to boot by an UEFI shim?
The point is it doesn't have to make sense to you. People own the computers, and if they want to install FreeDOS on it, they should be able to even if you think that's stupid.
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If you're going to replace what may be the number one thing that sets Apple apart (the OS), then why would you pay more for hardware that is well behind the competition and a laptop that is designed to be hard to service/upgrade?
Sure, it doesn't have to make sense to me, but I struggle to see how it could make sense to anyone.
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What's the number one thing to you is not necessarily the number one thing for other people.
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it's not my number one, because i don't really care. My statement was that the OS is the main thing that distinguishes a Mac from anything else. Buying a sub par computer and removing that part just seems odd.
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Retina screens.
Has nothing to do with anything. Retina is just a buzz word for good display. My samsung 28" UHD has just as good color contrast as any thing apple put out. My 3+ year old Asus android tablet has a beautiful display. I have had iphone owners look at the amoled display on my Galaxy S8 and tell me they wished their iPhone looked that good.
Retina display is nothing more than market hype.
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Simply having the storage soldered to the board is too much of a problem for me. M.2 drives don't take up that much space, and are a much better solution to soldering the storage directly to the board. Even if you plan to never use anything other than MacOS, having the storage soldered to the board is a completely ridiculous idea with no other reason than to prevent people from upgrading/fixing the machine by themselves in the future.
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it's so apple can change $800 to upgrade from 128GB to 1TB vs $250 for 1TB m.2 card.
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But, then how will they get you to buy an entirely new machine when all you want to do is increase or storage? Or get you to grossly over-spend on your initial purchase do you don't have to worry about it later?
How dare you put your needs ahead of Apple's bottom line?
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Just to play devil's advocate here, it's not just about space. By soldering on the SSD and putting it behind as crypto chip, you complicate the job of, say, the police if they want to recover data from it.
Suppose a flaw in the encryption existed that allowed you recover the key used by the encryption chip. Desoldering the SSD and putting it in a test rig won't stop the NSA, but it will sure slow down casual hackers.
A lot of this architecture actually makes sense from a security standpoint. Biometric cred
"security" (Score:2)
It's biometric credentials stored in the refrigerator that should give you the heebie-jeebies.
"So, I need the owner's finger to unlock this?" [gets out knife]
"So, I need the owner's face to unlock this?" [gets out bigger knife]
"So, the owner has to be alive?" [gets out bottle of chloroform and a washcloth] and [hey Larry, you still have that pipe wrench?] and of course [that's a nice /noun/ you have there...
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This is just UEFI secure boot being turned on by default. Turn it off and you can boot any unsigned kernel you want, it's in Apple's support database (google HT208330).
It's not different from what you go through with other UEFI firmware, except Apple's branding obscures that fact.
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The only proprietary connector used on a Mac in the last 15 years is the Magsafe connector. Every other port was a standard: USB-A, Ethernet, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, mini-VGA, mini-DVI, mini-displayport, Thunderbolt, USB-C.
Oh yeah, I remember the magsafe connector. (Score:2)
FTFY
But not to worry. They stopped using it.
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So apart from the thermal throttling, the flat cable display problems, the keyboard with a lack of travel and dust rendering keys unusable, audio lag/glitches, T2 locking down the internal SSD and the low-res blurry webcam of the 2018 MacBook Air, everything is okay!
Sent from my 2010 Mac mini, which I upgraded myself.
difference (Score:4, Insightful)
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No, s/he said that from their straitjacket. If they weren't visibly smiling, it would be a *straight* face.
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Yeah. I had a dell laptop got tits up on me. Dell sent a technician to my office with a brand new laptop. He pulled the drive out of my old one, and put it in the new one.
Meanwhile the apple in another department died. It had to be taken down to the "genus" bar where one of the "geniuses" wanted to charge him a "copy" fee to move his shit from the old one to the new one. The hard ware was covered but the data transfer wasn't.
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Sounds like your business had a service agreement with Dell and didn't have one with Apple, so that's a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison and on a wholly unrelated topic from the subject of whether bugs get fixed, which was what the OP was talking about.
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We did. I was the one that set up the service agreement with them. Apple didn't have such agreement or didn't want to make one with us. Which is probably why there are far more Dell in the work place than Apples. Which is pretty stupid for Apple.
So I find that Dell equipment is just as reliable as Apple, if not more. There are more Dell failures in the field simply because there are 10 Dells for every Apple. Give or take. Dell more than makes up for these failures by having a fair superior service
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Wow, interesting take. I'm trying to think about the last time the custom security chip and a time daemon update caused ASIO to stop working on my Windows boxes. Hmmmm. Can't seem to come up with it.
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I bet to differ, I had a first gen macbook air, a 2500 dollar stinker never fixed.
The system was overheating and crashing so apples fix was to simply toggle down the processor once it hits critical temp to a non usable state, this happened after 10 minutes pushing the system into an unusable crawl state.
Then the hinges broke, this was fixed by a repair program after apple lost a class action suit (so no fix before they lost in court)
Apple never admitted the heating problems, but silently made a bugfix revis
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Used to be the case moreso than it is now. I've happily paid more for "Just Works" several times over the years, but they don't seem to be selling that any longer.
In retrospect, needing to buy a 3rd party app to print from my iPad to the laser printer my iMac is sharing on the network was the first sign of trouble.
Exactly the opposite!!! (Score:2)
Eh, it is exactly the opposite of that. Apple is guaranteed to fix only high-profile bugs and will try to screw you out of support. I've been using Macs at work for a bit over a decade and the examples are too numerous to list, but I'll give some characteristic examples:
- iPhone 4/4s had a thermal sensor in the wireless module that had a very high failure rate after the first year. The firmware that enabled it came as an update for the iPhone 4, people who never updated did not have an issue, but a good per
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I could go on a huge rant about all the problems I had with my previous Macs that Apple never acknowledged and never fixed. Audio not working at all, CD-ROMs disappearing after a system update, can't do a factory reset with the original install media, can't use any non-Apple display because the DVI-D port is not clocked to spec...
But, nobody ever believes me 'cause I'm just a "hater". I don't bother anymore.
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can you say the same of other hardware manufacturers?
Erm yes. Still have some very old and very working Dell laptops here. On the other hand you can't even install Linux on a fancy new Apple laptop, at least not on the internal drive.
better options (Score:2)
Pro audio users have been abandoning the Apple platforms for years. You'll still find some trust fund EDM kiddies who use it, but this is a sector I pay attention to and a lot of people who cut their pro audio teeth on Macs are now using Windows machines instead. Linux will eventually get there, but now it's mainly a platform that pro audio users run as an adjunct to a main Windows DAW.
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I don't know, just about every DJs I have seen (in person and in pictures) have a MacBook proudly exposed on stage. Some use no computer at all, but I've yet to see a professional DJ with a Windows PC.
They may be using Windows PCs behind the scenes but the Apple logo is still shown to millions of spectators.
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But it's not like you can't put an Apple logo sticker on any other brand of laptops.
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Yes, as I said, the EDM crowd still show off their MacBooks like gold chains on a rapper. But if you keep an eye out for the working DJs, you'll see Windows machines. And in the professional recording/production world, Windows machines have been taking over.
It's a big change. I cut my teeth using Macs for music production. The advantages have been diminishing and Windows advantages have bee
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There is absolutely no difference in latency, or "real time response" between a Windows PC and Mac. You have to dump some unnecessary processes and background shit, but you have to do that with a Mac, too. You really don't want your OS telling you that there are 5 updates available in the middle of a set or recording session.
There hasn't been a technical reason to use Mac over PC for pro audio for a long t
T2 the sequal (Score:2)
Come to think of it Apple is just the type of company to create something like Skynet.
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sequal [wiktionary.org]
English, Noun
Misspelling of sequel
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Says the guy who misspelled his nick.
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Says the guy who doesn't know how to search for something on the web.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes... [knowyourmeme.com]
"Weird Al" Yankovic even used it in one of his videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
How many ways can you say the same thing? (Score:2)
5 Platforms of Audo Recording Sadness (Score:2)
Linux has a good audio subsystem, JACK, but it's not standardized, and the kernel has to be completely recompiled for low-latency.
Macs have a good audio system, but they have no 5.1 ports on anything, and to read this article, they screwing things up.
Android doesn't have much of an audio system, and it frequently pauses, and so far, only
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Which is why every audio professional I know uses Amiga and Atari ST computers.
p.s.: I do not know any audio professional.
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I owned an Amiga, but I always had to admit that the Atari ST was just made for audio.
The STE you mean? The ST couldn't even play PCM audio, it only had FM synthesis. Amigas only had 22kHz audio, but they had it from the beginning (two channels, two voices each.) It's true that the ST had MIDI ports and the Amiga didn't, but a MIDI adapter for the Amiga consisted of an opto-isolator and a level shifter, because its serial port would do 31250bps specifically for that purpose. Consequently, it was not a high cost item, and a savvy user (much more common in those days) could bash one together o
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Almost a decade ago BFS(Brain Fuck Scheduler) entered the fray with some exciting results. The most noticeable difference was the increased gains in latency, but not performance. Phoronix even did some benchmarks where they missed the point(2011), and measured throughput as a performance gauge(missing the point).
In current day you would ideally use MuQSS or BFS, to reduce latency. Or a realtime kernel from a distribution, which has the option. Liquorix also seem to be a preconfigured option.
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Let's just kill off the last of the Professionals. (Score:2)
Real musicians play music (Score:2)
Not computers
They don't scale and def don't sound melodic, lyrical or real. Just try bells on a laptop then plug into FOH system. You'll understand dynamics in an instant.
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I'm a musician who's always played ' live'. Computer don't scale my instrument of choice. Glitches in realtime performance and the cost to overcome, exceed the expense of simply buying an analog instrument.
I don't do studio, but respect those who do. Its a different gig. I've witnessed programmers run circles around musicians with sounds, layers and compositions to the extent that they are humanly in-concert un-performable without computer. I've witnessed aging, retiring legends perform 'live' mimickin
And again... (Score:1)
MacOS (Score:2)
Apple slipping (Score:2)
T2 is evil (Score:2)
please stop calling it a security chip.
the only thing it secures is a bunch of benefits for Apple, not for the user.