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Iphone Transportation Apple

Working Theory In Jet Crash: IPhone In Cockpit Is To Blame (appleinsider.com) 154

Apple Insider reports: Apple on Friday said that it's open to cooperation with French authorities, who are exploring the possibility that two of the company's devices were linked to the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804 in 2016. The flight's first officer may have plugged an iPhone 6s and an iPad mini 4 into the wrong socket in the jet's cockpit, French officials told Le Parisien. That may have triggered runaway heat, in turn sparking a fire.

At the moment, the investigation is being helped by an engineer from the French National Center for Scientific Research, as well as two people fron the French defense ministry, including a physics professor and an engineer specializing in batteries. Results from the investigation should be submitted by Sept. 30. Apple told the Parisien that it wasn't aware of evidence linking its devices to the EgyptAir disaster.

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Working Theory In Jet Crash: IPhone In Cockpit Is To Blame

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  • The linked article doesn't make it clear whether it was the iDevices that overheated from being plugged into the wrong socket, or whether they overloaded or shorted out the socket. A fire behind an instrument cluster panel would be slower to detect, and harder to put out.
    • if the phone was plugged into the wrong outlet, wouldnt that be the pilot (or co pilots) fault not the iphones fault?

      thats like blaming the dishwasher for ruining your record collection because you put them in there to clean them
      • by mysidia ( 191772 ) on Sunday May 28, 2017 @10:13AM (#54501331)

        if the phone was plugged into the wrong outlet, wouldnt that be the pilot (or co pilots) fault not the iphones fault?

        No.... Why does a "wrong outlet" exist that will accept a USB cable or A/C device without the appropriate over-current fuses or safety protection to prevent a fire?

        • by trawg ( 308495 )

          No.... Why does a "wrong outlet" exist that will accept a USB cable or A/C device without the appropriate over-current fuses or safety protection to prevent a fire?

          Indeed. And presumably if this is a working hypothesis, it would be simple to test - find the same "wrong outlet" type and plug in a bunch of iPhones and see if it catches fire.

          I really really want to believe that the engineers designing a cockpit wouldn't have a socket like that without the correct safety stuff. I am not an electrical engineer so not sure how hard it is to implement?

          • by mysidia ( 191772 )

            I am not an electrical engineer so not sure how hard it is to implement?

            Designing an outlet install is a trivial exercise. If they got it wrong it was probably either gross negligence by whoever designed/installed that outlet, Or fault/and-or/counterfeit electrical components. There may be a few special considerations on a plane such as air pressure differences and different supply frequency, which means that a few adjustments to the normal calculation methods may be needed, and specially-certifi

      • by v1 ( 525388 ) on Sunday May 28, 2017 @11:25AM (#54501545) Homepage Journal

        There have been standards in place for quite some time now governing the power capacity of USB ports. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power)
        Sorry this is a bit of a long-winded explanation but it's all stuff you have to know to understand the issue.

        The iPhone is somewhat "notorious" for refusing to charge off a port that doesn't communicate the amount of current it is allowed to draw. ("you cannot charge form this device" popup of some sort, I don't recall the exact message you get) This caused frustration from some who bought cheap car and wall adapters and found their iPhone wouldn't charge from them, despite other phones charging fine. To Apple's credit, this was the correct and (fire) safe behavior. Devices that just continue blindly and overheat themselves or other accessories are just plain poor design, but should still not be capable of posing a hazard in the charger.

        Voltage (5v in this case) is supplied "on supply", in other words the power source dictates the voltage and the accessory needs to be capable of handling it. Accessories that can't tolerate how high the voltage is will probably be damaged by it, and could pose an overheat/fire hazard. Since all USB are supposed to run at 5v, voltage is not an issue because USB supplies and accessories all expect 5v.

        Current on the other hand, is supplied on demand, meaning the accessory decides how much power to draw from the supply. If it draws too much again there is an overheat/fire risk, but this time from the supply not the accessory. Power (in the form of current, where power = voltage x current) overdraw has become an important consideration with USB now that it's become something of the de-facto battery charging standard. Larger devices (like bigger cell phones and especially tablets like iPads) can "quick charge" their large batteries by drawing more current at 5v. But the supply needs to be capable of safely delivering the higher power. The USB spec says to use DC drop resistors on the D+ and D- data lines to communicate fixed values that the accessory can look up in a table to determine how much power the supply claims it can safely deliver. These resistors aren't necessary to USB data function and can be omitted but then the accessory has no way of knowing how much power it can safely draw. It should then default to the "bare minimum" of 25mA of current, which would charge most modern devices very slowly. (or like the iPhone, just flat out refuse to charge at all) This is enough power though to operate unpowered accessories like mice and keyboards. Some larger accessories (like tablets and battery banks) can adjust the amount of power they draw to suit the maximum specified by the supply. An iphone can charge at either 500mA or 1000mA, for example, depending on the charger it's attached to. Again it's very important to understand the amount of power being drawn by the accessory is entirely determined BY the accessory. The phone is charging at 500mA NOT because that's how much the charger physical can provide, but because it has TOLD the phone how much it can safely provide and the PHONE is only demanding 500mA form it at as result.

        If the phone wants 1000mA and the charger is telling it that it can only safely supply 500mA, but the phone just ignores that and tries to draw 1000mA, the charger's acceptable responses are both limited and well-defined. Quality chargers will simply detect the overdraw and stop providing power, and your phone will probably go into charge for a fraction of a second and then immediately stop charging. You might ask yourself "why doesn't the charger just refuse to provide more power than it can safely manager?" Power = Voltage x Current. To keep Power constant (at 500mA) when the device has rigged current it is drawing so that it will get 1000mA, it COULD cut the voltage in half since it has control over that. BUT that violates USB standards. They specifically say you can't do that, your only response is to TURN OFF the supply of power entirely. The accessor

        • "To keep Power constant (at 500mA) when the device has rigged current it is drawing so that it will get 1000mA, it COULD cut the voltage in half since it has control over that. BUT that violates USB standards. They specifically say you can't do that, your only response is to TURN OFF the supply of power entirely."

          It's been a while since I read the specs, but isn't this statement contradicting how a USB DCP charger _should_ behave according to BC1.1/1.2 ?
          As in, when Idcp goes above what the charger can deliv

        • by tibit ( 1762298 )

          Many USB loads are non linear and present negative resistances: the lower the voltage, the higher the current. A supply/charger that attempted to maintain a constant power mode by assuming a positive resistance load would start oscillating with such a load.

      • that's like blaming the dishwasher for ruining your record collection because you put them in there to clean them

        How else am I suppose to get all the dust from all the nooks and crannies in the grooves?

  • Was the pilot texting while flying again?

    • He wasn't testing. He was winning at Angry Birds.
      • He wasn't testing. He was winning at Angry Birds.

        If there's any Irony in a situation like this, he was playing a flight simulator or studying for his flight safety exam.

    • Some airlines have moved to iPad-based electronic checklists, navigation charts, logbooks, and crew timekeeping (I don't know if Egypt Air is among them). This saves hundreds of pounds worth of physical paper books from being hauled around on every flight, which adds up to millions of dollars per year in fuel. As well, there are some very widely-used aviation apps like ForeFlight that are only available on iOS.

      For better or for worse, iPhones and iPads have taken over the cockpit. It doesn't mean the pilot

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Apple Ink.s User License Agreement is now in play to pin Apple and Timmy Cook for murder.

    The reason is that the User License Agreement on all Apple products does NOT transfer ownership of the device to the purchaser! The License is a USE License, and therefore ownership is retained by Apple!

    So, if the fire started with the iPhone + iPad, Apple Ink. and Timmy Cook have full responsibility for all loss of life and property!

    It may be 10 to 18 months before the arrest and extradition orders are cut to get Timmy

    • The reason is that the User License Agreement on all Apple products does NOT transfer ownership of the device to the purchaser! The License is a USE License, and therefore ownership is retained by Apple!

      So since the pilot plainly broke the devices through misuse, his survivors owe Apple an iPhone.

      • The reason is that the User License Agreement on all Apple products does NOT transfer ownership of the device to the purchaser! The License is a USE License, and therefore ownership is retained by Apple!

        So since the pilot plainly broke the devices through misuse, his survivors owe Apple an iPhone.

        Or Apple owes them a plane.

    • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      It could be an interesting case too from the case of the responsibility of the owner of the device.

      Depending on where you live it may be the owner of the device, not the user of the device that can be held responsible if there's a problem caused by the device.

    • Typically, I'd buy the device and then agree to a user license agreement. The device would belong to me before I agreed to the user license, and that wouldn't affect ownership. Generally, in US jurisprudence, a sale means ownership transfer, and handing over money for a physical object is a sale unless agreed otherwise, and I haven't seen anyone buying an Apple device and signing a contract to the contrary.

  • by w3woody ( 44457 ) on Sunday May 28, 2017 @09:43AM (#54501207) Homepage

    I don't know if this is the case in the Airbus A320, but in smaller aircraft (including GA airplanes) there often is a power port that looks like the cigarette lighter port in many cars. They easily fit USB car chargers such as this one. [amazon.com] (For years I used an earlier generation of this very adapter in a Cessna 172 to power my iPad.)

    The problem is, unlike in a car where the power port is always around 12-14 volts, the voltage in aircraft has (to the best of my knowledge) never been standardized. I've heard of airplanes which pump out up to 28 volts (instead of 12-14 volts), which is why if you are not certain of the airplane you're flying in, you need a specialized adapter such as this one [sportys.com].

    Since so many aircraft have power ports at 12 volts, many pilots I know simply buy a car power adapter. But if you plug it into a 24 volt power port (and the ports are often unmarked: the only way to tell is to crack open the airplane's POH), you're going to have a bad time.

    • There's no form of overcurrent protection anywhere? Not even a fuse?

      • Overcurrent protection and fuses don't help much in overvoltage conditions. If the overvoltage damages the device enough to cause a short, the fuse can help protect that, but it may already be too late at that point: a small fire might have already started.

        • Yeah, no, maybe.

          You are correct, a 1A fuse for a 12V system will pass 12W of power, whereas the same 1A fuse on a 48V line would pass 48W of power - leading to (up to) 4x the heat generation.

          The thing is, 4x heat generation _shouldn't_ be a fire-starting problem - usually. And, if it is, the device should include some form of "thermal fusing" in addition to a simple current limiting filament. UL et. al. wouldn't pass a device like this if simply over-volting the input would lead to fire, especially over-v

          • by jeremyp ( 130771 )

            Um, no.

            Power dissipation in a resistor is proportional to the square of the current P = I^2R, where P is power, I is current and R is resistance. The current is proportional to the potential difference. If you apply 12V across a 12 ohm resistor, the current will be 1A and the power loss will be 12 watts. If you apply 48V across the same resistor, the current will be 4A and the power 16W.

            Of course, if you have a 1A fuse in series, it will blow long before you get to 4A, but it works by overheating and meltin

        • by tibit ( 1762298 )

          On any device that's properly designed, you'll have overvoltage protection (a crowbar) as well as overcurrent protection. When supplied with too high a voltage, the crowbar shorts, and the overcurrent protection opens. No fire, and the device is supposed to safely withstand such faults. The overvoltage protection is a necessary part of designing to withstand ESD, so it's not there merely to prevent people from doing stupid things and hurting themselves.

      • Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Also, many if not most car chargers are designed to accept 24 volts, because there are now some vehicles rolling around with 24 volt systems. Virtually all of the 48 volt cars have a 12 volt system next to the 48 volt system, sometimes even with a separate battery! But at least with a step-down converter. But the 24 volt vehicles tend to have no such thing. This is cool because you can use an ultra-cheap automotive USB charger connected to a cheap solar panel to make a

        • 24V used to be common on heavy commercial vehicles, and some military stuff.

          But that was so long ago that I not only know what a carburettor is, I can replace or adjust one.

          • But that was so long ago that I not only know what a carburettor is, I can replace or adjust one.

            My automotive history goes back to when cars had carburetors with a leather acceleration pump diaphragm, but I've actually never adjusted a full-size carb, only little ones on weed whackers and RC cars. Lucky me!

            • ... but I've actually never adjusted a full-size carb, only little ones on weed whackers and RC cars. Lucky me!

              I've rebuilt two carburetors in my life. The first one, from a motorcycle, when I was ten and I had parts left over when I put it back together -- which was obviously a problem. Huge, HUGE, life lesson in being methodical and organized when taking apart things. The second one, from a 1982 Honda Accord hatchback, when I was in my twenties, went much better.

              • by Anonymous Coward

                According to the radio program "Car Talk", if you rebuild a carburetor enough times, eventually you'll have enough parts left over to build another carburetor.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Not in a $6 car charger for your iPad that you bought from a street vendor in Cairo, no, fuses would be a waste of money for the street vendor supply chain.

        • At teh risk of being whooshed, I was thinking about the component that cost rather more than that and didn't come from Honest Ali's Emporium.

      • There's no form of overcurrent protection anywhere? Not even a fuse?

        There is over-current protection specified according to FAA/CFR requirements, but in this case it's likely that a sustained slightly over-spec load condition caused point-heating and eventual ignition of surrounding components and/or the component container, allowing a fire to grow to the tipping point.

        Spikes are easy to protect against, but sustained low-level over-current conditions can be tricky to handle.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      Darn... I was so hoping to see that the Airline industry was finally putting USB charging ports and Bluetooth capabilities into the cockpit. Nothing worse that trying to talk on the phone while putting the flaps down. Hands free would be a serious improvement.

      • Darn... I was so hoping to see that the Airline industry was finally putting USB charging ports and Bluetooth capabilities into the cockpit. Nothing worse that trying to talk on the phone while putting the flaps down. Hands free would be a serious improvement.

        Nothing worse? Really? I think you lack imagination.

        How about trying to land after an electrical system failure has disabled all the built in radios and you have neither a hand held backup radio or a cell phone. I bet that would be worse than using a cell phone to reach ATC, declare emergency and advise of your approach and landing plans.

        How about a VFR pilot being forced to divert due to IFR conditions and flying out of the area covered by your paper charts? Bet you'd wish you had a charged tablet or phon

    • It's entirely plausible the battery or other parts had been replaced at some point. It would be completely unfair to blame apple for a fire in a non-apple battery or a non-apple charger. I wish they would give this information as it is very pertinent on how to interpret this.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

        And almost every AC adapter today is a primary switched type which rectifies the incoming power, then do a HF switching and a HF transformer to feed the secondary circuits.

        It could be interesting to see if 400Hz even would be a problem for the adapters though. But my expectation would rather be that they won't work at all rather than start to burn.

      • The A320 cockpit has nothing looking like a cigarette lighter port.

        But it does have, like my 2002 Honda CR-V, something that is clearly an ashtray, but lined with felt and embossed with the phrase, "Not an ashtray." :-)

      • I can imagine a scenario where the crew have a small emergency, switch on their oxygen supply, and start a fire with the oxygen exhaled from their masks.

    • Because the iPhones and iPads use small AC power adapters, I would very much suspect that the difference in the frequency of the AC power on an aircraft vs the AC frequency of a residence would be a major factor.

      I worked on aircraft in this man's US Navy and the AC power ran at 400Hz, rather than 60Hz.

      400Hz would quickly fry a 60Hz adapter.

      • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

        Have you tried it, and did it start to smoke or did it just die?

      • Did it many times on the ground in between flights. Laptops and iDevices. Never had any problem, all charge just fine on 400 Hz 110V.

      • 400 Hz would almost certainly work fine on any 60 Hz adapter. Possibly a transformer one may get rather hotter, but have you ever seen a transformer based USB charger?

        The first step in a mains adapter is a bridge rectifier, which will work fine. A low power charger would likely then use a reservoir capacitor, before feeding a DC-DC converter. More powerful chargers (e.g. laptop) may use a high-power factor flyback converter, with a large low-voltage capacitor. These in general work fine at 400 Hz, but t
        • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          400 Hz would almost certainly work fine on any 60 Hz adapter. Possibly a transformer one may get rather hotter, but have you ever seen a transformer based USB charger?

          Honestly, I'd really think it wasn't the iPhone or iPad, but the crappy cheap as crap adapter. As in, "Genuine" Apple chargers, like the ones Apple bought on Amazon only to find out none were actually made by Apple.

          And the unfortunately reality is, crappy ass adapters are a safety hazard even at regular mains voltage. Who knows what happens w

    • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      That's the same thing in many trucks here in Europe, but what happens is that the device just dies. I have never heard that there have been even a smoke incident caused by plugging a charger into the high voltage outlet. And I have seen people do that mistake with laptop chargers - and they draw a lot more power than a phone charger.

    • by Megane ( 129182 )

      the only way to tell is to crack open the airplane's POH

      It's too bad you couldn't somehow plug a voltmeter into that outlet. [radioshack.com]

  • by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Sunday May 28, 2017 @09:44AM (#54501217)
    Even though this is a French investigation, Egypt Air has a history of applying pressure to investigators to find reasons for a crash other than pilot action.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990 [wikipedia.org]
    • Hardly a deflection of blame. I cannot think of a story that would put them in a worse light...

    • And so they should. When you end up with human error as a root cause you have a situation that can't be learnt from or improved in the future. However you should qualify your post a bit: Egypt Air has a history of applying pressure to investigators to find reasons for a crash other than deliberate pilot murder/suicide.

      That is quite a bit different from "human error".

      • I said "pilot action" rather than "human error". And if Egypt Air was willing to question the investigators' findings of suicide when there was clear evidence of it then their involvement in any future investigation should rightly be treated with suspicion.
        • I said "pilot action" rather than "human error"

          Then why did you even bother posting against an article talking about pilot error.

          I have a black cat. Just as relevant as your original post to this discussion.

    • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      Well, unless the pilot started the fire intentionally then I wouldn't blame the pilot for this one.

      But we may be seeing requirements that chargers in the future should work at a wider frequency range in addition to voltages. Here in Sweden we also have 16 2/3 Hz systems, but those are on the railroad overhead lines and not something that people in general comes in contact with as it's converted to the more convenient 50Hz in the outlets of the trains.

    • by Ed_1024 ( 744566 )
      This does seem a little odd in that there are existing protocols for Li battery powered devices overheating and/or catching fire on board aeroplanes. You unplug them, extinguish flames (if possible) and dump them in water. We carry heat resistant gloves, containers and water on board and according to reports get to use them at least once a month over our entire fleet, as people often drop Personal Electronic Devices (PEDs) then crush them by moving the seat while looking for them.

      I use a company iPad on th
  • So this is a USB type socket. Are they using USB sockets but for different purposes, such as mains power?

    • USB power negotiation is sort of crap. One can only assume the iDevice decided to draw too much power and the host was not capable of delivering the power and not smart enough to respond to the over-current event. Bad host USB design. USB-TypeC connectors completely revamp the way power delivery is negotiated and finally correct this issue with USB.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Bad things tend to happen when one plug their cock in the wrong socket, especially on a plane. Don't even get me started if there are mother fucking snakes on it too.

  • by MikeDataLink ( 536925 ) on Sunday May 28, 2017 @09:52AM (#54501243) Homepage Journal

    If you plugged your 120v toaster into a 220v socket is the toaster to blame or the human?

    • Crappy /. editing here. The summary said that the devices may be linked to the crash and the article implies that they may have caused a fire which caused the crash. Neither of these statements place blame,

      A simple analogy, if you have a car crash because you were texting, the texting is the cause, but you are to blame.
    • by w3woody ( 44457 ) on Sunday May 28, 2017 @10:26AM (#54501363) Homepage

      Keep in mind that because of the safety culture in modern aviation, even if the pilot is to "blame", human factors are often considered to make sure future pilots do not make the same mistake. So, for example, if a pilot was inattentive and rolled onto the wrong runway, often investigators then try to figure out if there wasn't something more obvious that could have been done to draw the pilot's attention.

      So, in the case where you screw up and plug a 120v toaster into a 220v socket, even though its your fault, aviation officials would then ask if there was anything which could be done to prevent someone else from making your mistake. Like properly labeling the toaster and the socket. Or, better yet, designing a different socket so you cannot physically plug in the 120v toaster into the 220v socket. And if you went out of your way to force the plug to fit, they may recommend additional training to other pilots to tell them why forcing plugs is a bad idea.

      • You don't have to go out of your way, all you need is a cheap adapter plug. Not a good idea for a toaster, possibly, but modern electronics work fine on a wide range of voltages.

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      Whoever installed the wrong plug on the toaster of the wrong outlet on the 220V circuit.

    • If you plugged your 120v toaster into a 220v socket is the toaster to blame or the human?

      Although no toaster is designed to take such overvoltage, all portable devices that I have ever seen are designed to take 120v or 240v, so long as you have the appropriate socket adaptor. Though it's easy to assume that an aircraft power supply works the same way, pilots really need to know if they do not.

    • The toaster clearly, since it would have had the wrong plug on it.

      And that is kind of the point. Human error is never the root cause unless all other systematic errors have been ruled out. Here the systematic error is that a standard socket was used in a non-standard way which could be used by accident. If the pilot had to install a defeat device that would otherwise have prevented the connection THEN and only then is it pilot error.

      There are millions of styles of plugs in the world precisely because basic

      • I can easily find a 110V toaster and a $2 adapter plug, does that count?

        BTW, there's a power socket in the cockpit that delivers 110V, 400Hz through a standard American socket. Probably not the best idea, but works fine for most modern electronics.

        • I can easily find a 110V toaster and a $2 adapter plug, does that count?

          Only if you're genuinely incapable of reading. Allow me to quote myself:

          If the pilot had to install a defeat device that would otherwise have prevented the connection THEN and only then is it pilot error.

    • by antdude ( 79039 )

      Frakkin' Cylons!

    • If you are looking for someone to blame you don't need to investigate anything - the pilot is to blame, because he is ultimately responsible for everything that happens with the aircraft. But often the pilot is dead, so the blame-game doesn't actually get you very far. When investigating aircraft crashes, the point is not to find someone to blame, the point is to figure out what happened and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.
      • But often the pilot is dead, so the blame-game doesn't actually get you very far.

        That's when you have a culture that needs to put blame on someone to punish them.

        What you should use blame for: To find out who will have to pay for the damage, but in case of an airplane crash it's more important to find the cause so you can make changes in your operations to avoid the same thing or similar things from happening again.

        The fact seems to be: The pilot plugged an iPhone into a socket in his plane that looked like a USB socket but wasn't one. There seems to be no more information, so the

    • by kackle ( 910159 )
      I took my first trip as an adult to England in the 1990s. I knew about their 240-volt system, and ignorantly bought some simplistic adapter from Radio Shack (R.I.P.) to use with my 120-volt shaver (which really was a physical adapter, not a voltage adapter). The shaver worked really well there (the best shaves of my life), for one week, when it stopped dead. At home I opened it up to find the solder had melted off the circuit board! A quick re-solder brought it back to life.

      The moral is: If you want a
  • Original reporting (Score:4, Insightful)

    by McGruber ( 1417641 ) on Sunday May 28, 2017 @10:14AM (#54501333)

    The original reporting was this article in Le Parisien: Crash d'EgyptAir : des experts se penchent sur des iPhone et des iPad [leparisien.fr]

    The article is in French, so you'll have to use Google Translate, but it is worth reading -- it has details and graphics that are not in the Apple Insider report.

  • Imagine, Ives said "Lets make the phone 4mm thicker for a bigger battery." Now the battery easily lasts 2 days, and maybe the pilots wouldn't be charging their devices

  • Hard to imagine a plausible sequence of events in which a USB-powered device charging would cause a rapid conflagration in the avionics bay. Most speculation to date has been looking to the windscreen heater circuit as a source of rapid heat due to high current availability at the location in question. There have been many previous incidents and close calls with these windscreen heater circuits and control units.

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