Trump Says He's Going To 'Get Apple To Build a Big Plant In the United States' (arstechnica.com) 471
In a Tuesday interview with The New York Times, President-elect Donald Trump said that he would incentivize Apple to "build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States." Ars Technica reports: Trump indicated to columnist Thomas Friedman that he is going to double-down on bringing factory jobs back to America, especially in the Rust Belt from Michigan to Pennsylvania.
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
TRUMP: It's a big thing, we'll make the robots, too. Right now we don't make the robots. We don't make anything. But we're going to. I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and we're going to do that. We're going to have more factories. We can't lose 70,000 factories. Just can't do it. We're going to start making things.
Trump continued, saying that he had received a call from Apple CEO Tim Cook. As the president-elect recounted: "...and I said, 'Tim, you know, one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you're making your product right here.' He said, 'I understand that.' I said: 'I think we'll create the incentives for you, and I think you're going to do it. We're going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you'll be happy about.' But we're going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you're liberal or conservative, I mean, I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It's gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can't, they can't even start up, they can't expand, they're choking." A report from Nikkei last week said that Apple is exploring the idea of making iPhones in the United States, but the company has realized that it will cost more than double to make the shiny new gadgets at home.
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
TRUMP: It's a big thing, we'll make the robots, too. Right now we don't make the robots. We don't make anything. But we're going to. I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and we're going to do that. We're going to have more factories. We can't lose 70,000 factories. Just can't do it. We're going to start making things.
Trump continued, saying that he had received a call from Apple CEO Tim Cook. As the president-elect recounted: "...and I said, 'Tim, you know, one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you're making your product right here.' He said, 'I understand that.' I said: 'I think we'll create the incentives for you, and I think you're going to do it. We're going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you'll be happy about.' But we're going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you're liberal or conservative, I mean, I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It's gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can't, they can't even start up, they can't expand, they're choking." A report from Nikkei last week said that Apple is exploring the idea of making iPhones in the United States, but the company has realized that it will cost more than double to make the shiny new gadgets at home.
Dear Apple fans: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Funny)
No.. you misunderstand. He's going to get them to plant a TREE. When it grows, it will be a "big plant"!
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Funny)
No.. you misunderstand. He's going to get them to plant a TREE. When it grows, it will be a "big plant"!
An Apple tree, FTW.
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And then he's going to make them give their Apple Sauce Code for the iPhone to the fbi so they can catch terrorists.
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Insightful)
Next do the Apple iPhone 8USA +.
Charge a premium for the versions built in the USA.
Hell, it works for Fender, they have USA vs Mexican Strats....there's a price difference and it is worth it to some people to buy the US version.
Frankly, I have NO problem with most anything that was slightly higher in price if it was USA made. I"d definitely consider paying a bit more for US jobs, and hopefully, quality.
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It works and it doesn't. People have figured out that some of the pan-Asian guitars are way better than what's coming out of the US factories at a fraction of the price. There's only so much cachet you get from something coming out of a US plant unless the quality is commensurate with the price.
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As an observation I don't associate "Made in the USA" with quality for anything except tools, and that is more brand specific than the made in the usa part. Certainly for cars its a huge minus when I'm looking at them.
I associate country wide build quality with Germany and Japan. I have negative quality connotations associated with China and India, though both of those are losing that fast. Most of the rest of the world doesn't really get a thought.
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Insightful)
People here in South Africa often declare that we should scrap all our labour laws and protections (which are basically non-existent compared to Europe) in order to compete with China. I think that's a completely stupid idea. We can NEVER compete with China. They have over a billion people who are willing to work for peanuts. We have 50 million - no matter how low we go, they can always undercut us.
There's no POINT in trying to compete on price, we'll never win - so we may as well treat our workers well and try to compete on quality instead. Germany got that right.
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple are not longer selling empty status, they are selling, 'I can afford to pay for my privacy', status. Now after the spy software planted by Chinese manufacturers in phones, the only way they can really still sell you privacy is to manufacture locally under strict security controls and when you switch on your phone and log in for the first time, download and install the security and encryption software from a secure offshore location (let's go with Iceland at this time).
Apple selling you privacy unlike M$ selling your privacy, gives them a powerful marketing advantage and to make the most of that, they need to manufacture in a secure location (M$ are now pretty much stuck as being the perves of the internet spying on everyone foolish enough to trust them with anything, eww, only the poor have to sell the privacy to buy M$ shite).
So it really would not take all that much assistance to drive a marketing driven production shift, especially if they promote privacy guaranteed notebooks and desktops. The perve douche bags at M$ are really vulnerable right now as the public demand for the basic human right of privacy grows, so Apple can really stick it to them real hard right now, by marketing and promoting "selling 'you' privacy rather than selling 'your' privacy".
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I agree with you. I'd pay a premium to have a US built product. Add Harley Davidson to the list, BTW.
I once proposed the same to Meg Whitman several years ago. My response: No response.
I believe this is why she was siding with Hillary.
HP has more jobs in India than it has in the US.
Disclaimer: I voted for neither candidate so save your wind.
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I would gladly pay more for the iPhone 8USA Plus. Especially if it meant the phone was made paying fair wages and not taking advantage of third-world workers. We have low prices on most items because of the advantage we take on workers in these other countries. Apple is rich, but on the backs of humans working in slave-like, or, much, worse, conditions.
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Ha ha.
I like the way people assume that taking work away from workers in the Third World is doing them a favour.
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It is actually. What happens if people start refusing to buy things made in slave-labour like conditions ? You force the third world companies to change their labour practises in order to keep making money.
So no, you don't "take work away" - you make their work conditions better - unless you're seriously claiming that the owners of Chinese factories don't want to make money !
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An Apple tree that grows Oranges.
No thanks, one Orange is enough. :-/
Now an apple tree that grows iPhones...
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No.. you misunderstand. He's going to get them to plant a TREE. When it grows, it will be a "big plant"!
If I cut up my apple and bury it, I do get tree(s)...care to try a little experiment with your iPhone 6 Plus? >:-)
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Funny)
No.. you misunderstand. He's going to get them to plant a TREE. When it grows, it will be a "big plant"!
If I cut up my apple and bury it, I do get tree(s)...care to try a little experiment with your iPhone 6 Plus? >:-)
You're planting it wrong.
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:3)
Apple has already stated that in the current market the cost to produce an iPhone in the US would be double what it is now. I don't expect an extra $100-$200 in cost would equate to an increase quite as large as that. With some tax cuts, incentives and deregulation the cost could realistically stay the same.
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple has already stated that in the current market the cost to produce an iPhone in the US would be double what it is now. I don't expect an extra $100-$200 in cost would equate to an increase quite as large as that. With some tax cuts, incentives and deregulation the cost could realistically stay the same.
How much US tax does Apple actually pay now?
China has the manufacturing infrastructure and ridiculously cheap labour, I have a hard time imagining that "tax cuts, incentives and deregulation" are going to make it competitive to move manufacturing to the US.
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It's the deregulation that suddenly makes it much less expensive although you don't want to live near that factory. Ad to that a nice fat tax break and few subsidies....
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Informative)
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Actually Foxconn is going for robots in a big way in China. India govt has provided free land to Foxconn and lobbying hard to move production to India where workers are cheaper but Foxconn would rather put in robots in China than move the production to India. And China is taking the lead in robotics as most factories are in China so when it is time to automate they are being automated in China rather than moving them somewhere else and then automating them.
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Funny)
How much US tax does Apple actually pay now?
China has the manufacturing infrastructure and ridiculously cheap labour, I have a hard time imagining that "tax cuts, incentives and deregulation" are going to make it competitive to move manufacturing to the US.
Donald: Tim, we're going to offer huge tax cuts.
Tim: But Donald, we don't pay any tax, just like you
Tim and Donald both laugh hysterically for hours....
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Insightful)
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On the books, without the "loop holes" or deductions, whatever you term them, the USA has pretty much the highest corporate taxes in the world.
Let's cut the corporate tax down as close to zero as possible. Let's only allow deductions for expenditures related to the business (new equipment, etc)...and that's it.
Make it dead simple and dead cheap.
We'd have companies flocking to our shores to set u
Interesting idea, but flawed (Score:5, Insightful)
Your proposal seems very sound, encourage business and lower the barrier to create and compete. Tax the people who profit, not the company. However, I see two problems with your argument.
1) Corporations don't really pass on taxes to the consumers. Most taxes are on profits, not units sold, so unless you are thinking that sales tax is lion's share of tax that is paid out (it isn't), this isn't really an accurate view. A better way to describe taxes for corporations is being paid out of profits that could be returned to investors as profit or used for recapitalization. This would probably just result in the really wealth owners of corporations becoming even more wealth unless you also really cranked up the personal income tax for the wealthy and removed tax dodges. Businesses get to write off business expenses and deduct them from profits already, so removing taxes on profits isn't going to suddenly cause companies to radically change their expenditure on labor or infrastructure.
2) Corporations are used as personal piggy-banks by the very wealthy. By removing any taxes on corporate profits, you allow me as a majority interest holder in a large or wealthy corporation to keep my profits in the corp and then use the profits to acquire more companies and aggregate holdings completely tax free. And only divesting as I needed cash. It would be like being able to put your entire income into a tax free ROTH account, and only deducting money (and therefor paying taxes) when you bought groceries, but accruing wealth and interest in the interim.
If you want to do something like this, you would need to put some rules in place to keep corporations either reinvesting or divesting profits to shareholders and employees.
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If I may add my bit, encouraging huge businesses isn't really the best strategy; small to medium sized companies more create employment more efficiently (as in more employees per $ in revenue) because they tend to have less management overhead etc, and a small business is less prone to find ways to transport their profits to tax-havens (possibly because the overhead cost of financial trickery is too high for a small company).
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Informative)
Any money they invest in themselves (as capital expenditure or R&D) or employees is already not taxed, since those are expenses. Only profits (going either to shareholders or sitting in reserve), after all the expenses are paid, get taxed.
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I am very liberal, and very much a Democrat. Yet, I completely agree. It makes no sense to tax a corporation. Tax personal income. Tax sales of goods and services. Allow a business to invest all its money in itself and it's employees.
I entirely agree that we should not tax corporations at all. However, if we did this, we would need to tax dividends and capital gains at the same rate as income tax.
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem comes when you see people in the company start to use the company as their credit card. Don't forget, according to the US Census there are 28 million small businesses in the US. What happens when the tax burden is shifted onto the owner as he takes profit? He or she might do what I've seen others do. Use the company to pay for as much as they can and take a paltry salary.
One guy I knew took a 30K a year salary as President of his own company and was quite vocal that everyone in the company got paid more than he did so they better work their asses off in appreciation. And on paper looking at his paystub that was 100% true. But he didn't tell most people that the company rented a 2 bedroom apartment in a tower downtown for "out of town" clients that he happened to live in for free, and the company vehicle was his vehicle, and the reason he would take staff out to dinner to chat was so the company would pay for dinner as a business expense, business trips to Europe coincidentally were in cities near Alps ski resorts, etc. So while he made only 30K, his out of pocket expenses were about $600 a month because the company paid for everything else.
I'm not saying the tax shift would be a bad idea, I'm just saying once it happens I would expect to see a lot of what I described above start happening.
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It makes every sense to tax corporations since they rely and use government services at least as much if not more so than individuals do. They rely on government to enforce contracts, patents, copyright. They use government built roads. And government has to clean up after them when they make a mess and declare bankruptcy. They also rely on government funded education for their workers.
Re:hashtag alt-left (Score:5, Insightful)
Corporations are not natural entities. They are created by law and they let the shareholders hide behind the corporations and not have any personal liability for anything they do in the name of the corporation. This is expensive for society. Still society allows it in return for the money they get from corporations as corporate taxes. I would support 0 tax for corporations if directors of corporations become personally liable for all decisions made by a corporation including bankruptcy so if a corporation like Trump Hotels declares bankruptcy then Donald Trump loses his right to vote and right to stand for elections. Also any consumer lawsuits against a corporation gets paid out of the personal wealth of the corporation's directors. If you dont want this then pay up for the immunity you buy using corporate taxes. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Interesting)
You can do so by having the government subsidize the workers through medicare for all, food stamps and matching salary grants for interns. Germany is a high income society but it manages to keep manufacturing at home because the corporations do not pay a living wage to apprentices. Instead the govt covers them with free medical care, free college, matching grants during apprenticeship and low rents (Germany keeps rents low via forced renting. You are not allowed to keep a house empty in Germany and high transfer taxes. This makes sure Real estate stays cheap). With low rent, no college debt, on the job training paid partly by the employer and partly by the govt, free medicare and subsidized food people can live on lower salaries. Yes this needs higher taxes on profits but it makes sure the profits are made in Germany instead of abroad.
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Informative)
the tax code gets rewritten such that personal compensation (not income) is taxed. No one works for free, including CEOs, even if they have a $1 salary. They get compensated in some fashion and that compensation has a fair market value at time of distribution.
This is already the case. All compensation, whether in the form of stock, use of company vehicles, company-provided housing, etc., is considered income by the IRS.
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All compensation, whether in the form of stock, use of company vehicles, company-provided housing, etc., is considered income by the IRS.
Yes, but capital gains are taxed at a lower rate. That should not be. As usual, when the tax code gets more complicated, it's a sign that malfeasance is occurring.
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Then offer them tax loop holes if they invest in making America great again!
Trump "I fixed the tax loop holes AND got Apple to build plants in the USA, am I great or what!"
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You are forgetting engineering infrastructure. There is a web of companies in China that help build iThings. Who is going to set up those companies in the U.S.?
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Funny)
elon musk of course.
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually most of the engineering is still done in the US, especially with Apple. Companies that offshore engineering quickly learn that the Chinese don't care very much about things like copyright and patents.
I once worked for a company that did offshore their plant to China including the engineers, a few months later the plant was abandoned and another plant was started by the engineers cutting out the US corporation. Some of those "counterfeit" parts were at some point implied into an oil rig springing a leak a few years ago.
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Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:2)
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Insightful)
Or put a 30% tariff on iPhones manufactured in China and change the rules so that a Phone on the container from China is invoiced at or close to retail not some ridiculously low value. A 600 dollar iphone cost 200 dollar to manufacture in China and would cost 400 ollars to manufacture in the US. A 30% tax on the 600 dollar value means a 200 dollar phone becomes 380 dollars . Apple can eat the other 20 dollars and move production to US and get some good publicity.
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A court in the EU recently ruled that it has not been doing so. I have no idea how you managed to miss that and suggest you pay some more attention to major news items. Please correct the fallacy that you have been spreading. I am going to assume that you are just poorly informed and not deliberately telling lies that grossly insult the intelligence of every reader here. You can't possibly be that much of an utter prick can you?
Re: Dear Apple fans: (Score:4, Informative)
First it was an EU Commission.
Second the commission ruled that Ireland's tax rate (for this specific case) was too low.
Third Apple paid the tax required by the law in Ireland.
Fourth Ireland is appealing the decision.
Fifth it is unknown if the commission's ruling is enforceable on Ireland.
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With some tax cuts, incentives and deregulation the cost could realistically stay the same.
More corporate welfare. I didn't think Apple was so poor. I guess it is in the Trump economy.
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Remember, most of their profits are routed overseas.
Most of their US profits are routed through a Nevada corporation to avoid paying state corporate taxes. Apple is proud to let the world know that they design stuff in Cupertino, CA, but they don't pay corporate taxes in CA.
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Tax cuts ARE costs. So you're saying that the majority of Americans who care nothing about iPhones with their 15% market share should be supplementing the Apple fandom?
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It's not as simple as that. "More than double" could mean a lot of things. It could just refer to the production costs.
China is quickly automating a lot of the factory jobs because Americans whine when Foxconn workers kill themselves. If they're going to completely automate a new product line the price difference between doing it in China and doing it in the US probably shrinks. Watch apple's videos on how the MBP is made. Count the workers.
Add in a lot of other fringe benefits you get from bringing it back
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Obamacare has saddled companies with and the additional burdens
Apple doesn't use Obamacare for it employees.
Trump wants to remove these roadblocks so that we are on an equal footing with the competition.
Great so we too can choke on polluted air like this...
http://i1-news.softpedia-stati... [softpedia-static.com]
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Organic Non-fat Gluten-free Home-Grown
I want to point out that non-fat and gluten-free have legitimate reasons for existing. Perhaps you mean the Organic, Shade Grown, Free-Range, hand crafted version.
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Corporate welfare, no drug tests needed.
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Insightful)
Double the COST. It currently costs $224 to make the 7. So it would cost $448 in the U.S. (probably less actually with automation, I bet this cost estimate is assuming the same labor hours per phone). If apple collects the same profit margin and passes the cost on, the phone would cost $224 more, or about $924.
Annoying but not the end of the world and not $3000.
I'm somewhat in favor of this. Not tax incentives - I just think that plants outside the U.S. that are allowed to import without tariffs should (1) adhere to OSHA and (2) pay their workers a living wage and (3) adhere to comparable environmental regulations as the U.S.
Otherwise, it will never be possible for American manufacturers to compete if the foreign plants can be deathtraps that use slave labor and create mountains of pollution.
http://fortune.com/2016/09/20/... [fortune.com]
Re:Dear Apple fans: (Score:5, Informative)
Double the COST. It currently costs $224 to make the 7.
No, nearly all of that $224 is component costs, which would be the same. The actual assembly labor cost is about $10. Most estimates are that it would cost about $20 in America. So offering Apple subsidies and tax breaks to shift production to America is stupid, but only slightly stupid. Of course, it is also illegal under WTO rules, but that is another matter.
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Won't matter. Last I saw, it was requiring a few hundred thousand with small hands, excellent fine motor skills, and the ability to do meticulous work for long hours. That isn't an American resource.
Either Apple will have to compromise their design to make it robot friendly, or we'll have to import the workers.
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> If he gets his way: Enjoy your next iPhone costing $3000.
Wait, are you saying we're going to get a discount, too? :)
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Trump can want all he likes, if it is not going to be cheaper to produce apple products in the US, it is either not going to happen, or Trump will be subsidising the production to the tune of $2,000 per device.
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But it will come with adapters, right?
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robots will be big! (Score:2)
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You may be glad robots are big. But I would prefer that they fit inside my home where they can do useful things.
See when the robots are big they will BE your home.
The Man Who Would Be King (Score:5, Funny)
Somebody seems to overestimate his powers, mental and constitutional.
Re:The Man Who Would Be King (Score:5, Funny)
I feel bad for all the women and other races ...
Women aren't races.
Except Danica Patrick [danicapatrick.com]
lol (Score:5, Funny)
"Get Apple to build a big plant in the United States"
So, an Apple tree?
That's OK. (Score:5, Funny)
No big deal. From what we've seen so far, tomorrow he'll Tweet about how wonderful it is that Apple is making their phones in Asia instead of the US.
Too bad Steve Jobs isn't still around to take that phone call. The reality distortion fields would have caused a rip in space-time.
Taxes, regulations etc ... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Regulations are not created by some evil Liberul cabal in Berkeley that sits around smoking weed and drinking espressos saying, "How can we make business more difficult. Regulations arise because there is at least a few assholes who think, "If it's not illegal, then it's OK!" - even if it causes the deaths of people. So these regulations didn't come out of thin air - somewhere, they are (or were) protecting someone.
2. Corporate taxes are comparatively excessive in the US - even compared to evil Socialist European tax systems. BUT, any tax cuts means revenues will have to be made up somewhere else and let's give up on the fantasy that lowering taxes boosts the economy enough to wash out the tax cuts.
3. The stock markets are hoping that the Republican controlled government does what Republicans do best: cut taxes, spend like a motherfucker, and borrow the short falls. "Bringing manufacturing jobs back" looks like a cover for doing just that.
4. And when deficits go further through the roof, the Republicans will just blame Obama.
5. I bet Trump's imagined wealth that this will in fact happen.
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1. Regulations are not created by some evil Liberul cabal in Berkeley that sits around smoking weed and drinking espressos saying, "How can we make business more difficult. Regulations arise because there is at least a few assholes who think, "If it's not illegal, then it's OK!" - even if it causes the deaths of people. So these regulations didn't come out of thin air - somewhere, they are (or were) protecting someone.
2. Corporate taxes are comparatively excessive in the US - even compared to evil Socialist European tax systems. BUT, any tax cuts means revenues will have to be made up somewhere else and let's give up on the fantasy that lowering taxes boosts the economy enough to wash out the tax cuts.
3. The stock markets are hoping that the Republican controlled government does what Republicans do best: cut taxes, spend like a motherfucker, and borrow the short falls. "Bringing manufacturing jobs back" looks like a cover for doing just that.
4. And when deficits go further through the roof, the Republicans will just blame Obama.
5. I bet Trump's imagined wealth that this will in fact happen.
1: Plenty of regulations are awful and need to be scrapped. See most things related to the ADA, for example.
2: Corporations aren't fucking paying ANY taxes because they use loopholes to claim they're headquartered in Ireland or some shit. Lowering the corporate tax rate and tightening those loopholes would be a massive net gain.
3: Don't pretend you know what the stock market wants. Don't pretend that it's based on reality in any way.
4: You're assuming deficits will go further through the roof. Even
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Re:Taxes, regulations etc ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, the US has the highest corporate tax RATE. It also has the most generous corporate tax deductions, making it tricky to do an apples-to-apples comparison. For the record the "effective tax rate" -- what corporations actually pay, is around 27.1%, compared to the OECD average of 27.7%.
On the other hand not all corporations are equal. Companies like Apple can hire the best financial and accounting brains on the planet. The complexity of tax code makes it easier for a company like Apple to evade paying, shifting the tax burden to smaller corporations.
Why the Rust Belt? (Score:2)
Will these incentives specifically state rust belt states? Why exactly would they put these plants there rather than New England or the West Coast? Labor costs? Most of the parts are coming in from Korea, Taiwan, and Japan so wouldn't a West Coast shipping port be better? China only does the assembly.
While Trump is dreaming up stuff to do, he should try and get all those electronic parts manufactures back here in the US.
Don't be so dismissive (Score:2)
For crying out loud, use your imagination. This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
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This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
And I'll believe it's happening when Apple starts building the plants.
For what it's worth, companies don't build domestic plants if foreign ones are cheaper to utilize. And there aren't enough regulations to remove to make the cost differential work out. Maybe with a tariff on all foreign constructed phones, but you'll need a steep tariff.
Somehow, I don't think the Donald can get all that done. Especially with half the R's in the
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This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
How? I'm genuinely asking. Has Apple showed/communicated anything that supports this affirmation?
Re:Don't be so dismissive (Score:5, Insightful)
He is riding a wave of anti-globalization sentiment, he has both houses of congress, Chinese factory wages have risen steadily, and most of you laughing now were probably laughing in the same way on November 7. For crying out loud, use your imagination. This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
Convincing the "Poorly Educated" to vote for you by promising that you will bring Manufacturing back to the U.S is a lot harder then convincing the Highly Educated (CEO's) to actually bring those Manufacturing plants back. For one those CEO's will actually want to see Plans and Details and the Trump campaign lacked either of those
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Well, I see a hitch in this plan: Apple doesn't actually make most of its popular products itself.
I certainly think it's possible to make a token number of devices here, something with symbolic value. But it's not going to be easy to build up enough domestic capacity to make a significant dent in our imports. For one thing Foxconn has got a lot experience doing this, and that's valuable -- worth actual money which will have to be added tot he cost. Probably the easiest way forward is to get Foxconn to bui
Why is this even news? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's yet another Trump hyperbolic promise with no grounds on reality. Has anyone noticed he never elaborates on the how? It is easy to promise the moon and it is, evidently, also easy for most of the population to buy it at face value alone.
Hell, i can do it as well: I'll talk with Tim Cook myself. And we'll have great, huge, American iPhone factories, with American robots - cause wee don't make anything, but we're going to. Our robots will be tremendous and we'll have 200,000 new factories putting incredibly advanced new iPhones every year. American iPhones to make America Great Again(tm)!
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Here's the "how": National Security Letter handed directly to Tim Cook. Build your shit here and pay some portion of taxes or take a permanent vacation to Super Gitmo while we force your staff to put backdoors into every iThing made form here on out.
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Seriously, is that an actual expectation? Because if that ever came close to happening, Apple would just pack its billions in overseas funds and become an European/Asian company.
Re: (Score:3)
I think a lot of people have a fairly exaggerated view of what the President of the United States can do. Everything I'm reading here suggests there's no implied threat, but rather that Apple will receive vast amounts of taxpayer-funded largess, in the form of big tax breaks. Considering that manufacturing is more and more automated all the time, even if Apple bites, I'm still not exactly clear what benefit any of this will have for the average American worker. None of them would work for the wages that som
new ghost town in Cupertino? (Score:2)
They're magic regulations, also evil (Score:5, Insightful)
Classic Trumpism. What are these mythical regulations? Name something? give an example? Instead when a reporter wastes their time going over regulations they find the industry pretty on par and then Trump backpedals saying we over exaggerated what he meant and what he said was just a joke. Ugh we have to do FOUR YEARS of this nonsense? He can just say what he wants and no one's going to stop him?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:They're magic regulations, also evil (Score:4, Insightful)
"What are these mythical regulations?"
They can't dump all that industrial waste into the US waterways anymore like they can in China. That gives them a competitive advantage.
Also, they have to pay those whiny workers a minimum wage. And meet OSHA requirements. Also, causing them to lose a competitive advantage.
*Whoosh* (Score:5, Insightful)
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
*Whoosh*
I feel like for the next 4 years America will be used as kind of a learning tool for Trump (a, "Trump University", if you will) to learn very basic economic and government principles. . . poorly. And all it will cost is the well being of an entire nation. . .
The U.S. cannot be service-based (Score:3)
A service based economy cannot survive in the long run. You must create/produce something of value. A service economy will run out of money eventually. Every county must produce for themselves as well as import/export. Finding a healthy balance is difficult.
The U.S. must also become more competitive on corporate taxes. We need to be smart about allowing both personal and corporate money to flow into the country with minimal tax because that money was already taxed where it was "earned". That allows more investment and spending in the US.
Re:The U.S. cannot be service-based (Score:4, Interesting)
A service based economy cannot survive in the long run. You must create/produce something of value.
Fortunately, US manufacturing output is at an all-time high [stlouisfed.org]. The value added by U.S. factories is more than $2 trillion a year, equal to the next three countries (Japan, Germany and South Korea) combined.
The problem is not the plant (Score:3, Informative)
Look, perhaps many of you don't understand how modern factories work, you're stuck on the old concepts of assembly lines with a few robots and a lot of humans.
A modern factory, for the most part, has robot trucks and forklifts and many robots doing work.
And very very few humans.
They operate 24/7/365 in the dark, unheated and uncooled.
Not a lot of jobs there.
They are even BUILT by robots for the most part.
That's what an Apple factory in the US would be. A 2018 plant with very few jobs. Unless you're a robot.
Buzzword Bingo time (Score:2)
Incentivize? I don't recognize that as a word except when I'm playing buzzword bingo during a meeting.
Maybe he "... would provide incentives for Apple to build plants..." ?
#justsayin'
specifics (Score:2)
60 Min: Tim Cook already said he would (Score:4, Insightful)
Tim Cook already said he would build factories here if the corporate tax laws were changed, which is Trump is going to get done with republican congress. Going OMG Trump is getting a little old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Have you seen the link you posted? He's talking about repatriating overseas funds, not factories.
Yes, and I'm Rick James, b*itch! (Score:5, Interesting)
Trump is a brilliant improviser. One way to redirect criticism is to accept the criticism, and spin it as though it agreed with you. I actually took a course on collaboration in a corporate environment that talks about this. Their idea was not to use it to spin things though, but to keep people open to ideas. Instead of saying "no, you are wrong because" you say "yes, and..." elaborate on how you will address the problem. Trump takes this to the next level.
Trump: "I'm going to build a wall"
The world: "That's ridiculous, that will cost 5 billions of dollars!"
Trump: "My wall idea is soo ridiculous, it will cost 10 billion dollars!"
The world: "We can't afford that."
Trump: "So I'll have somebody else pay for it!"
Trump: "I'm going to build iPhones in America."
The world: "That will cost too much."
Trump: "Yeah! They will cost so much that we will have to construct robots to build the phones!"
The world: "But if robots build them, that won't employ workers."
Trump: "My robots will be so awesome that they will cook breakfast for the workers!"
Sometimes I want him to say "Because I'm Donald Trump, bitch" in the same voice that Dave Chapelle used when he said "'Cuz I'm Rick James, bitch!"
Irony: One reason you can build iPhones cheaply in China is because Chinese workers don't get the kinds of protections and rights that US workers do. That was part of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP): to raise the worker protections in China to level the playing field. Trump is doing the opposite. He says regulations will be removed in the US. So instead of raising worker protections for Chinese workers, it sounds like he is going to remove protections from US workers. And ironically, the blue-collar workers voted for this.
Re:Yes, and I'm Rick James, b*itch! (Score:4, Informative)
China was not part of the TPP
Re: (Score:3)
Let's be pretty clear here. It will be American robots manufacturing iPhones, instead of Asian ones.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Breaking: Assad to impose US-wide "No Apple Zon (Score:4, Informative)
He said he's going to move the capital of Israel to Jerusalem.
Trump is pushing to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. A position that previous presidents have avoided since the founding of modern Israel. Most countries have their embassies in Tel Aviv.
How would he do that? Does he have the authority?
Executive order. But I'm sure Congress will want to put in their pound of flesh for the congressional record.
Would he just declare it to be so and the rest of the world would go along?
Nope.
Re: (Score:3)
Actually its very easy to get the Chinese to pay for stuff in the US. They hold a huge amount of dollars. Just start the printing presses and devalue the dollar and the Chinese holding just went down in value and you used the printed dollars for what you wanted to do. In effect the Chinese paid for it.