Apple's Response To Diversity Criticism: 'We Had a Canadian' Onstage at iPhone 7 Event (mic.com) 413
Mic published a report last week in which it criticized the gender divide at Apple's last two iPhone events. The reporter noted that at iPhone 7 event, women spoke for roughly eight minutes at stage compared to men, who spoke for 99. Furthermore, most of the women and people of color who appeared onstage weren't Apple representatives. An Apple spokesperson, who shared the information "off-the-record", had a weird response. The email read, "We may have different interpretations of diversity." The email continues, via Mic report, "he pointed to 'two African-Americans' who spoke at the keynote, neither of whom are actually employed by Apple. He also mentioned 'a Canadian, and a British woman.'"
The reporter has defended the use of "off-the-record" information, noting that Apple PR didn't warn her beforehand -- and as an important ethic in journalism -- they didn't reach an agreement before the Apple PR decided to share things.
Glenn Greenwald writes:They're 100% right. Nobody can unilaterally decree "off the record". Requires a mutual agreement or it doesn't exist.
The reporter has defended the use of "off-the-record" information, noting that Apple PR didn't warn her beforehand -- and as an important ethic in journalism -- they didn't reach an agreement before the Apple PR decided to share things.
Glenn Greenwald writes:They're 100% right. Nobody can unilaterally decree "off the record". Requires a mutual agreement or it doesn't exist.
Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, speaking time should be determined by genitals?
The real tragedy is that most of the talking time was taken up by brown eyed people. As someone with green eyes, I am offended.
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, the keynote was held in english. I demand that the keynote should be held in languages that match the language distribution in the population. Otherwise you will offend foreign speakers.
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you mean "foreign speakers"? Apple doesn't make its money in the US, according to Apple. Maybe the whole thing should have been Irish. Or Mandarin, but I really doubt Apple cares whether its slaves can understand the ritual or not.
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe the whole thing should have been Irish.
Do you know what language most Irish people speak? Hint: It is not Irish.
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Maybe the whole thing should have been Irish.
Do you know what language most Irish people speak? Hint: It is not Irish.
It is not English either. badaboom.
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
I sexually identify as an Irish person.
Except during Oktoberfest, when I am German.
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
The real point is to pressure Apple into giving money to some advocacy groups.
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
The real point is to pressure Apple into giving money to some advocacy groups.
How about the IRS to start?
Amen to that. Unfortunately, Apple lacks the, uh, ... courage.
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
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Funny thing about colour, is it might actually be a social construct of sorts. I mean sure, you can define frequency ranges for response etc, but there's more to it because perception plays a huge part. Go and get yourself a blue blocking filter. Then look a the sea and sky. At that point descriptions such as respectively wine dark and bronze start to make a lot more sense. The ancient Greeks didn't even have a word for blue.
In fact, the only society of ancient which did were the Egyptians, who were also th
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The real tragedy is that most of the talking time was taken up by brown eyed people. As someone with green eyes, I am offended.
Congratulations on being able to identify differences that preschoolers practice watching Sesame Street.
Now try something more challenging, like identifying where differences lead to different socioeconomic treatment in our society, while other difference do not impact status and class. (I'm not sure what the university equivalent of Sesame Street might be, but maybe it's what most of you need)
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It shouldn't be. According to the summary it is: "The reporter noted that at iPhone 7 event, women spoke for roughly eight minutes at stage compared to men, who spoke for 99." That is what's being criticized.
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Funny)
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Women and their views and needs are MORE important for companies interested in SELLING products (that means around 100% of them).
Isn't that why they make a pink iPhone ?
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But that someone is 110010001000. To be fair, this time he was being ironic.
Jzanu is correct. Because women spend much more money than men, most marketing is aimed at women and most companies cater to women.
Jzanu is also correct in calling 110010001000 a pitiful idiot even though that particular post of his was a joke.
Jzanu would also be correct calling anyone who actually believes in that shit a pitiful idiot.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why "just" SVP ? Tim needs to time-share the CEO position with a women, a trans, a black, a blue, and a yellow.
Pardon my ignorance, what is "a blue?"
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Pardon my ignorance, what is "a blue?"
Yo, listen up... [youtube.com]
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Why "just" SVP ? Tim needs to time-share the CEO position with a women, a trans, a black, a blue, and a yellow.
The show was called RWBY, not BWBY. Although maybe the lead could've been Blueby Blose...
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
"media events spotlighting"
Pretty sure none of my role models in technology had any media spotlight what so ever. Most of that is at most a mention in a textbook.
Maybe stop looking for role models on the tv or twitter. If you're idea of 'getting into IT' is 'standing up on a podium and talking about products and synergies' you're looking at the wrong degree. Get an MBA.
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Oh no, according to marketing people, marketing people are more important that people that actually do shit.
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I'm sorry you can't understand the difference between 'Computer Science' and 'Business'.
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People who don't agree with the socjus narrative apparently lack it. Of course, this is just an ad hominem issued to cover up the fact their own position not only lacks empathy, it dehumanizes as it 'deconstructs' what it doesn't approve of.
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I'm not sure we should promote those reasons for entering a field. Go into computer science because it's interesting/rewarding and have aptitude for it, not just because it happens to pay well. Encouraging people to choose it for the latter when they lack the former will lead to misery for them and for society.
Using zuckerberg as an example to aspire to doesn't do much for your argument either.
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thanks for the laugh (and if serious...seek help)
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Power imbalance reinforced by exposure to stereotyped junior roles for women causes girls at the earliest ages to avoid IT due to lack of role models.
I see this idea, a lot, and it's interesting to think about. There probably is some amount of truth to it, but it's almost certainly not the only explanation. I doubt it's even the majority of the explanation personally, but I could be wrong. The problem is, how do you prove it?
I'd also like to point out that while there are plenty of men in IT, IT in general is still not seen as an exciting job by society, and the men there tend to get very unflattering characterizations in the media - "tech bros", "neckbe
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That's like saying I'm not 7ft tall because when I was in first grade someone told me most people are 5'8".
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wrong, I had no role models for becoming interested in computers at age 10 in 1974, I did it myself
Why does another group need role models, encouragement, unfair hiring practices, etc. to even some miniscule percent representation?
maybe women in general don't like the tech side of IT. just putting that suggestion out there
Re: Who cares? (Score:2)
So there was no gender stereotyping when Grace Hopper became an Admiral in the US Navy and computing pioneer in the 50s? What role models did she need? Was she discouraged by the fact that all the other admirals were white males?
I didn't have any role models that got me into IT, I got into it because I enjoyed messing with computers. Has the patriarchy banned girls from owning computers or are they just less interested in IT?
How about we start talking about the lack of diversity in teaching and nursing give
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That's exactly the point being made, it shouldn't be.
It isn't.
Oh My (Score:2, Insightful)
"women spoke for roughly eight minutes at stage compared to men, who spoke for 99"
People who actually count stuff like that should be sent on a fast rocketship to land on the surface of the sun.
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still a great idea however
Re:Oh My (Score:5, Funny)
you got downvoted, not because you are wrong, but because everyone knows you dont land on the sun, you just....burn up when you reach it
still a great idea however
Just time it so you arrive at night, idiot.
Easy solution (Score:3)
Fuck you, Slashdot. (Score:2, Insightful)
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Fuck you for stooping to the level of the typical clickbait peddled by the shitty news outlets. News for nerds? Stuff that matters? Is this either or the two or am I losing my mind? Give me something actually about tech. I'm taking a break from your website and turning on ads in the future.
If you think whiny busybodies, that are trying to build careers by cultivating outrage don't matter in tech, reality has a rude awakening for you.
No Such Things As Off The Record (Score:4, Informative)
There is no such thing as "off the record". Anyone working PR knows this.
Re:No Such Things As Off The Record (Score:5, Informative)
There is no such thing as "off the record". Anyone working PR knows this.
Then you pretty clearly don't work in PR. "Off the record," "on background," "not for attribution" and other deals between sources and reporters are real and specific things and are used frequently every day in "grownup" journalism. These concepts "work" because of mutual self-interest: the journalist doesn't want to burn the source/PR rep/whatever and vice versa because they (or at least their respective organizations) will continue to have to work together in the future.
Dealing with bloggers from sites nobody has heard of and hence have no reputation to uphold by adhering to agreements? Not so much. The PR rep should have known better than to treat a random blogger whining about speaking time/genitals/skin color ratios like a grownup, but that doesn't mean those concepts don't exist and aren't employed frequently.
One thing I noticed... (Score:3, Interesting)
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I'm offended that you didn't point out that there were no Hispanics either.
Re:One thing I noticed... (Score:4, Funny)
Hispanics are white*.
*Except in politics and marketing, because fuck logic.
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I can't wait until we solve the microaggression problem so we can move on to these pesky nanoaggressions.
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I just wish I wasn't microTriggered all the time.
A Canadian... (Score:2)
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How about, say, Justin Bieber?
Eww....
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The Shat sells Commodore equipment, not Apple.
That could explain why my parents got me the Commodore VIC-20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUEI7mm8M7Q [youtube.com]
What? Why? (Score:5, Interesting)
But, if the speakers were knowledgeable individuals either working at Apple, or paid by Apple, then that goes all out the window. You don't stop racism by hiring someone just because of their skin color. You don't stop sexism by hiring someone based on their gender. I don't automatically get a job just because I'm a white male. I have to actually have the skills to do the job. Why should any other race/gender expect the same treatment?
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but you do automatically get jobs because you're a white male. you'll never be cognizant of it, as you've spent a lifetime building up defense mechanisms against acknowledging systemic racism. that is why any kind of favoritism towards minorities is threatening to you on a lizard-brain level.
there are some white people who are disabused of these notions, through sociological education or real-world experience. unless a white person is specifically educated on these things, they will fall into the favorable
Not the point (Score:5, Insightful)
But, if the speakers were knowledgeable individuals either working at Apple, or paid by Apple, then that goes all out the window. You don't stop racism by hiring someone just because of their skin color. You don't stop sexism by hiring someone based on their gender. I don't automatically get a job just because I'm a white male. I have to actually have the skills to do the job. Why should any other race/gender expect the same treatment?
That's not the point of programs that encourage diversity in the workplace. Nobody wants to hire somebody who is unskilled. What they want to do is encourage people to apply and make sure the workplace is welcoming to everyone. If the skilled people are minorities, that helps the public image because it *shows* that minorities are welcome in the workplace. And it is NOT a given that minorities are welcome in a workplace. While most employers want anybody really good who can work with their teams (because good people can be hard to find), that doesn't mean that the team will understand how to relate to the new person or that the new person won't face a hostile work environment. Sure, people can make mountains out of molehills, but there are also things that are mountains if you're on one side of them and molehills if you're on the other and if you're standing on the molehill side you don't realize that the other side goes down for miles.
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It's a HUGE mistake to give any attention at all to SJWs.
Surely all your bitter whining is doing just that?
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Yes, because comments on Slashdot are a huuuuge haven for the SJW population.
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The only SJW I see here is you.
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Agreed. The only "winning" move is to ignore Stupid Juvenile Whiners trolling.
Of course by commenting we're becoming part of the problem. *sigh*
--
"What you resist, persists"
Disconnect (Score:3)
Maybe it's true that Apple's top echelons don't represent its consumer base proportionally in sex and color. All the same, as the most profitable business in the world, that doesn't seem to be a real problem for them. And, clearly, with Apple shipping the #1 smartphone and #1 tablet, and the currently popular Macbooks, consumers aren't actually all that concerned with the dearth of women on stage at Apple events. So it seems like this problem is being manufactured for our consumption by people whose job it is to do so, people like Jamia Wilson, executive director of Women, Action & Media.
What I really want to hear is not that this is a problem, but why it is a problem. What are the consequences of lack of diversity at the top of the corporate structure? Why does this matter? How would it help, say, black women if there were more black women in positions of authority at Apple?
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There's a perception that black people have no chance to reach the elite because nobody wants to hire an unevolved ape to handle important, respectable business decisions [youtu.be].
The long and short of it is opportunity. You have the opportunity for promotion, and it instead goes to someone else based on your manager's emotional responses to the person. Those of us with developed technical sense about business understand this is mediated by things like rapport: it pays to be social with people who are promotin
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This really bugs me. At my university, we have to watch a lame video every year about how to not sexually harass our co-workers and students. It's a complete waste of time for everyone: those of us who don't go around sexually harassing people don't need to watch a video to behave like respectful and responsible human beings, and those who do go around sexually harassing people aren't going to sud
Unfair to Apple (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, 80% of the Apple speakers were gay men and the remaining 20% were bi-curious, so what's the problem? Or isn't that diverse enough for you?
Aren't we in America? I thought this was America!
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When you get right down to it most pro-diversity protesters are just as biased and bigotted as those they are supposedly protesting against, they're just too tied up in their own one-horse personal agendas (disability, gender, race, religion, whatever) to see it. Either you promote equality
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*former source
James Watt on Diversity (Score:2)
"I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple." - James Watt.
How to have no diversity complaints (Score:2, Insightful)
Have only white women speak. Works for most other liberal groups!
people like me (Score:2)
And by "people like me" she means "political activists" and "liberal arts majors"?
Apple's entire business model is for smart, technically oriented people to make stuff that's easy to use for "creative" people like Jamia Wilson. Obviously, Apple wouldn't be "investing" in people like her: that's the whol
Re:people like me (Score:4, Insightful)
>> And by "people like me" she means "political activists" and "liberal arts majors"?
It seems to me that its exactly all those type of people, especially women, that buy Apple phones, whereas anybody with an actual clue goes with Android.
Vogons unrepresented! (Score:2)
This keynote was a complete sapiens-fest!
If I don't see at least at least one freddled gruntbuggly come the iPhone 8, ground-break for the intergalactic highway will begin in Cupertino! (and the rest of the world a few milliseconds later.)
Stupid fucking headline (Score:3)
I hope Apple is more meritocratic than Google (Score:2)
I hope Apple is more meritocratic than Google. My Google contacts are telling me G is being torn apart internally by SJWs right now. I'm talking full on mandatory "unconscious bias" and "microaggressions" trainings, shutting down internal discussions on anything even vaguely non-PC (and as you can imagine, for an SJW that includes just about anything they disagree with), "reconsidering" female interview candidates that don't quite cut it, etc. You can either have all that, or you can have straight up merito
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Your ability to interact with different people without causing problems - or unintentionally insulting your customers - is part of your merit nowadays. As the world changes, so do the requirements it places on businesses and their employees.
Diversity is not about statistics (Score:2)
It is about not blocking people because of race, gender, nationality. (Blocking anybody because of religion is always fine and in fact recommended, because they have proven they are stupid...). If the statistics do not follow that move, maybe it is people's choice?
Canada? (Score:2)
Apple should be a meritocracy (Score:2)
Apple got where they were by being a meritocracy. They shouldn't respond to diversity criticism. They should be a proud meritocracy, which is the only reason they are successful today. Racism is bad for business, no matter what race you are discriminating against.
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> which is the only reason they are successful today.
Wow what are you smoking? The entire reason Apple are successful today is a triumph of marketing a targetted "lifestyle" to wannabe hipsters rather than anything to do with actual content/value/quality.
Media has devolved into professional trolling (Score:5, Insightful)
MIC itself is a tribe of disproportionately intolerant young people who explicitly view attention whoring as a legitimate pathway to success.
Social Justice Theater (Score:2)
Lets pack the supreme court with hate filled leftists so we can make every aspect of life just like this!
SJWs Suck (Score:2, Insightful)
'nuff said.
Re:So it's OK, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
I sure as hell hope all this political correctness and "diversity everything" bullshit goes away and the pendulum swings back, and becomes mere background noise.
I don't care who the fuck does something, as long as they do the job well!
In a color blind, sex blind society like many profess to be working towards, then the FIRST thing we need to do, is STOP counting who is this, that or the other.
Life is a competition out there, and only the best at a job should win. Who cares if this or that is diverse? If you don't like how the spread of their crown/workforce is....move to another, support another, etc.
I mean, do you do this with your group of friends? Do you count exactly how many women/men/whatever vs black/white/green there are in your group and bitch and complain about you're missing X demographic?
Hell, in the latter, you have MUCH more choice in that and can directly do something about it. But in the job market, and in a stupid product presentation, do we really need someone to count category and demographic of the presenters?
Seriously, Who Give a Fuck...and why should they?
Frankly, aside from one of the presenters that I had a hard time understanding, I didn't really notice who was of what sexual/racial category.
If you watch something and THAT is all you see, then you really need to get a life and find more important things to ponder.
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Colour blindness is not a good thing, it denies the very real issues that people of colour have. What we want is a post racial society, where people are aware of colour but it has no effect on opportunity or fair treatment.
Re:So it's OK, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
He should know that only white males can inflict *-isms... everyone else gets a free pass.
He should stop working hard doing his best long enough to realize that other are offended by his very breathing and he should do more to make them happy. Which is more to the point, he needs to dedicate his life to servitude of others' ideals and beliefs.
Let's let him know it's not his best that's needed, just his compliance to what you think.
Re:So it's OK, right? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep. Personally I don't give a fuck anymore. If somebody thinks I'm being sexist or racist, they can sue me. Really, they can. We have laws they can sue me under. We have government agencies they can contact to help them out. The fact that nobody is suing Apple indicates to me that Apple is not a sexist or racist employer.
Until then "you're racist!" and "you're sexist!" are just so much "waaawaaawaaawaaawawawa." Just train yourself to hear only the teacher's voice from Peanuts waawaawawaaawaaawaaa any time somebody wants to say you're sexist. Don't tell me about microaggressions. I don't care. Don't expect me to roll over and go homeless so you can replace me with a diversity hire without paying me unemployment. Waawaaawawaaawaaawa.
Does that sound mean? Does that sound cruel? Too fucking bad. Maybe people who don't understand computers themselves shouldn't have been lobbing "you're sexist!" and "this closed source 3rd party program wouldn't have bugs if a woman was promoted instead!" bullshit at me.
You want to think I'm a sexist? You imagine I'm "sexually frustrated" because I don't date women? Go right ahead. If that's what makes you happy. Knock yourself out. Yep, I'm being a big sexist by personally filtering your internet connection in your home so you can't learn programming yourself just because of the body part between your legs. Waawaaaawawawawaaaa. You want to be serious? Sue me. Present your evidence in court.
Oh, what's that? You don't have any evidence? You're just a washed-up never-was asshole who wants to hold me accountable because you never accomplished anything in your life? Waawaawawaaawaaawaa.
Re:So it's OK, right? (Score:4, Funny)
WOW....that's a little sexist/racist of you isn't it??
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They didn't just exclude people of color. They also excluded people of gender.
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