Steve Wozniak May Swap His Tesla For A Chevy Bolt (siliconbeat.com) 286
An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes a San Jose Mercury News article about "Apple co-founder and electric vehicle fan Steve Wozniak."
Woz posted a picture of himself, smiling, next to a new, white Chevy Bolt. General Motors gave Woz the fully electric sedan for an extended test drive. He liked it. "I expect to be switching cars soon!" Woz wrote in a photo caption.
The battery-powered Bolt is due for release late this year. The four-door hatchback has an advertised range of 200 miles per charge, with a sticker price around $37,500. The EV will compete head-to-head with the Tesla Model 3. The Tesla entry-level sedan, expected to start at $35,000, will be released late next year.
It's interesting to read Wozniak's later comments on the post. "A lot of things wrong with the Tesla model S are done correctly (my opinion) in this car... It gets down to my product ideas of balance and getting the most from the least. Try to make things simple and affordable but very adequate. This car hits my sweet spot."
And in response to the obvious question, Woz replied "Maybe one Segway would fit. And a seat can be folded down."
The battery-powered Bolt is due for release late this year. The four-door hatchback has an advertised range of 200 miles per charge, with a sticker price around $37,500. The EV will compete head-to-head with the Tesla Model 3. The Tesla entry-level sedan, expected to start at $35,000, will be released late next year.
It's interesting to read Wozniak's later comments on the post. "A lot of things wrong with the Tesla model S are done correctly (my opinion) in this car... It gets down to my product ideas of balance and getting the most from the least. Try to make things simple and affordable but very adequate. This car hits my sweet spot."
And in response to the obvious question, Woz replied "Maybe one Segway would fit. And a seat can be folded down."
A real comparison? (Score:3)
As someone who'd love an electric car, I'm already out of the running with a family of four children. I don't have the cash for a "second" car - it make better financial sense for me to spend that cash on gasoline.
That said, I was salivating over the Model 3. The Bolt looks good, and is a step in the right direction, but it's a MUCH smaller vehicle. Plus, as a Chevy owner, I don't hear ANY stories of how my car's manufacturer goes above and beyond to support me. Shoot, my car company even declined to honor a transferred warranty from the previous owner (I paid my fee) and then later declined to honor a voluntary recall because my vehicle was beyond their mileage limit by 100 miles.
Seems like all I hear about Tesla is "we're working to become awesome" and from their owners "it's true, they are awesome." Aim for that level of satisfaction, Chevy, and I'll purchase an Acadia.
Re:A real comparison? (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who'd love an electric car, I'm already out of the running with a family of four children. I don't have the cash for a "second" car
Electric cars are still bleeding edge. The amount you save on gasoline, even over the full life of the car, will not pay for the premium price. You don't buy them to save money. You buy them to help change the world (and maybe for the convenience). If battery improvements continue at their current pace, the financial break even point is still five or ten years away.
Seems like all I hear about Tesla is "we're working to become awesome" and from their owners "it's true, they are awesome."
My wife has a Tesla. Yes, their customer support is awesome. So are their cars.
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I own my autos for a looooong time, enough time (you saw my note about the extended warranty?) for there to be a financial return. So, yes - I *can* purchase an electric car "to save money". ;-)
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You know why I want an electric car? It's all about time.
- I can drive on the HOV lane and reduce my commute time by half.
- Maintenance required is dramatically reduced (i.e. no oil changes.)
- No more weekly trip to the gas station (I couldn't care less about the $30 it costs to fill my tank; I make that much money in a very short amount of time.)
Still, a tesla model S is beyond my price range, and I'm presently saving the cash to buy a house during the next financial and real-estate collapse (which I'm pre
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I live in VA outside DC and have hybrid plates that let me get in the HOV solo. That allowance is federal rule that ends when the roadway is classified as 'degraded' in terms of traffic flow. I-66 in VA fully meets that classification
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Except that you are stranded for hours while your piece of shit electric recharges.
My electric car has a range of 240 miles. It can charge to 80% of that in 20 minutes. I have never been "stranded".
If you regularly drive long distances, then an electric car is not a good choice. They are not for everyone.
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So, 90% of Americans would be fine.
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So, 90% of Americans would be fine.
Bingo! I drive long distances to random hiking trails. An electric car is not for me, considering some of the trail heads can be located at a different GPS location, so exploring for it instead of predictable location is not a must for me. But you know what? A car is a tool and you pick the tool that works for you.
Re:A real comparison? (Score:4, Insightful)
My gasoline car has a range of 410 miles and it can be refueled in under 5 minutes
If you regularly drive 400+ miles in one trip, your family only has one car, and it is important that you can refuel in only 5 minutes, rather than taking a 20 minute break after 6 hours of driving, then here is the solution to your problem: DON'T BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR.
For plenty of other people, electric cars work well.
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Statement not supported by facts [torquenews.com].
Perhaps read my comment and re-read your article. Your article talks about maintenance costs being basically the same. My comment talks about time concerns. These are not the same thing.
Except that you are stranded for hours while your piece of shit electric recharges.
I'll be sure to remember that next time it charges in the garage overnight. Oh wait, you mean you expect me to drive out to BFE all the time? Guess what, I almost never go there, and when I do, I have a truck that is much better suited for offroad than a commuter vehicle.
This is like the shitty argument Verizon uses "oh but
Re:A real comparison? (Score:5, Interesting)
No ICE, no oil, no maintenance. No transmission, just a straight connection from motor to wheel (linkages as necessary but no gears, etc).
Replacing a battery isn't cheap but it is a very very straightforward thing. Unlike replacing an engine, which your transmission isn't engineered for.
The 'life' of an electric vehicle should realistically be multiple years beyond even the best ICE vehicles...bringing the ownership cost down even farther.
And then take into account that if you can put in a house battery and solar, you could get your 'fuel' entirely for free. You'll never do that with an ICE even with ethanol. This perhaps ties to your 5-10 years prediction which is reasonable. But there are still lots of savings involved beyond the fuel.
The cheapest option of course is a used ICE car for $5-10K
Re:Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers (Score:5, Funny)
The problem with electric cars is that windshield wipers are horrendously expensive to replace. With my previous car windshield wipers were way less than 1% of total maintenance over five years. My Leaf is about to turn 5 years old and windshield wiper replacements 75% of my total maintenance costs. This is outrageous!
Re: Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers (Score:3)
My windshield wiper blades are 100% of my 38,000 mile Tesla maintenance cost.
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Re: Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers (Score:2)
I really miss all of the fun times sitting at the dealer waiting for oil, etc. Changes. My last ICE car (and it is my last ICE car) had "free" maintenance for 48,000 miles (if your time is worth nothing).
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My current 2012 Honda Insight is roughly 10 months between oil changes. My wife's 2011 Kia Soul is averaging 7500k between changes.
That's a long time to never see a mechanic. Wheels get out of alignment, tires lose pressure (though newer sensors are helping this), etc. Cars themselves aren't designed to never be serviced, even if the bulk of service requirements are removed w
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Re:Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously you're being facetious, as the Leaf uses tires like any other car. It also has regular pneumatic brakes too, although with regenerative braking you shouldn't go through pads very fast unless you brake really hard a lot.
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Pneumatic brakes? Those are for buses and other heavy vehicles. I think you mean hydraulic.
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This is part of the reason trains outlast buses... the oldest NYC subway cars (built 1964) are being complained about as having a "low" mean distance between failure at 35,000 miles, versus 400,000 miles on the newest cars. Streetcars in many cities see daily operation at well over 30 years old, some even 70.
If my car only needed service every 35,000 miles after 50 years I would say it was a piece of machinery handed down from the gods...
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I asked some Tesla owners for tips on buying a used one, and their response was "don't, unless you get it from Tesla direct."
The earlier cars in particular seen to have a lot of issues. You really need that support from Tesla. It's a shame because I'd like to get one, but spending that amount of money I'd want to know it was well covered.
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In what way has the average car lifetime decreased?
When I was a kid (50 years ago) most cars were end of life at 60-100,000 miles. I can not even imaging an average car from those days going 300,000 miles, and yet if you told me you were driving a 2010 Honda Civic with 300,000 miles I wouldn't be at all surprised. Not saying every Civic goes 300,000 miles, but it's not all that unusual. Cars in the 60s and 70s didn't go 200,000 miles let alone 300,000 miles.
I'm sure you can point to a few old cars with lots
Re:A real comparison? (Score:5, Informative)
Not for current cars, but that's where the Model 3 is so exciting. $35000 is the median car price for new cars in the US, and that's where the Model 3 is intended to hit. There certainly was a premium for the Model S, but the premium is no longer there for the Model 3. Heck, if Chevy is going to try to sell the compact-sized Bolt for 35000, you could say that the Model 3 will be selling at a discount being as it's a bigger car with more features (like, say, a charging infrastructure).
By my calculation, I'll save about $1000 / year on energy costs over my Honda Civic. I normally keep cars for 10 years or so, so I'll be about $10,000 ahead at the end of my ownership - which is about the premium I'd pay over buying a new Civic. That's assuming that gas stays at it's current low price - let it climb back up to $4 or $5, and I'll be way ahead.
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Don't forget the battery replacement after about 100 K miles at a cost of $3,000. That's what my niece's Prius required.
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Battery technology has improved.There are lots of people whose Prius cars have gone much further on the original battery.
Also, are you 100% sure it needed a new battery? Like this guy whose Prius battery "failed" and the dealer wanted a similar amount to replace it, but it turned out to be just a dirty connector. [autoblog.com]
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Electric cars are still bleeding edge. The amount you save on gasoline, even over the full life of the car, will not pay for the premium price. You don't buy them to save money.
I did, and it worked. The payoff period for my LEAF ended up being a bit longer than expected because when I bought it (in 2012) I was projecting that gas prices would continue increasing, when in fact they dropped dramatically, but it has paid for itself. Note that that calculation does include just over $9K in tax credits, and charging partially at work. Without those, my payoff period would have been about 10 years, which is a bit long, but about the amount of time I keep a car. Actually, it's probably a
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My wife has a Tesla. Yes, their customer support is awesome. So are their cars.
My wife has a Toyota, I have no idea what their customer support is like, since in 8 years (so far), it has had zero problems.
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To be fair, they probably changed ownership 3 times over the life of your support case. Things get lost in the shuffle.
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There's exactly two examples of problems with a Tesla in that blog. That's hardly "certified lemons"
Re:A real comparison? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can afford to be awesome when you're selling $100k luxury cars with probably a profit margin (excluding R&D costs) of $10k-$20k each.
When you're building $30k cars with razor-thin margins of a few hundred dollars each, it's a whole 'nother ballgame. I would love it if Tesla can keep up their current policies and support with the Model 3, but I seriously doubt they'll be able to. Even the free supercharges for life is questionable for the Model 3.
Re:A real comparison? (Score:4, Informative)
No, it isn't questionable. It's not going to exist.
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They have already let slip that it will be pay as you go. There might be an unlimited option but the code for adding credits is already on their site.
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The laptop - desktop analogy is wrong.
Re:A real comparison? (Score:5, Funny)
It's like a desktop vs a laptop.
Oh my god, now cars are breeding computer analogies! It some sort of horrible re-enforcing circle of madness.
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Economies of scale are why Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM, etc can sell as cheap as they can.
That the Bolt will only cost basically the same as it's predecessor the Volt? that's cost coming down significantly as the amortization of the factory costs pays off.
And take into account that a business model of ICE cars involves kick backs and such between dealer and manufa
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Dealers make fuckall on warranty work. They have to keep the suckers around after the warranty to make bucks.
That's starting to fail, nobody stays that stupid forever. As new car buyers keep their cars longer, they wake up, one by one. Used car buyers, as a group, never took their cars to dealerships for work.
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The interior of the Bolt is probably larger than the Model 3.
The Bolt does have its downsides, though. The Model 3 is faster, has better aerodynamics and probably handles better. The Model 3's charging network is much superior, especially since GM is relying on the market to supply chargers.
Nonetheless, like the Woz, I think I'd prefer a Bolt. None of them will handle four children, though.
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I don't have any children. If you do have four children it might limit your choices in what cat to buy, though.
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If you do have four children it might limit your choices in what cat to buy, though.
With that many squirts, the chance of at least one with pet allergies is pretty high, so you're right... you'll likely be restricted to ugly hairless monstrosities.
Average is somewhat less than 4, and not surprisingly, so is the typical spacial consideration.
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Depends on whether you want the children. If yes, a house cat, if not, a lion cub.
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Electric Cars serve two purposes (Score:3)
As usu
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In CA, carpool access for pure EVs (and hydrogen vehicles) is guaranteed until early 2019.
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An inflatable doll still costs about $30 and gets you carpool lane access.
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Some people assume that is true, but cops work a lot of hours and have trouble maintaining a social life... if he owns the same model doll and recognizes her, he won't be amused. At all.
Re: Electric Cars serve two purposes (Score:2)
Car companies have to buy guzzler credits from Tesla. No tax money.
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... oldest continuous US names
You seem to have trouble parsing the phrase you commented on. He didn't write "oldest continuous car lines", he wrote "names". Or, in other words, you agreed with him, but made it sound like an argument because you're too stupid to realize you said the same thing.
Most from the least (Score:2)
It gets down to my product ideas of balance and getting the most from the least. Try to make things simple and affordable but very adequate.
I'd love to see more MPG stats on flywheel vs battery hybrids. Flywheels are much more efficient, but realistically have much lower energy storage capacity than batteries. Flywheels, CVT, and a small engine might be a way to get the most from the least $ right now: the Bolt's battery costs GM about $9k.
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Not to mention the danger of having a flywheel in a moving object that's prone to crashing. I mean, I get that the car itself has a lot of kinetic energy when it's moving, but the flywheel has to have even more if it's the thing that's pushing the car.
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They're using flywheels in cars? How does that work?
I personally prefer Unicorn-powered cars. The range between refuelings is much much higher, they never need to be replaced, and there's practically zero maintenance required..
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But do they get along well with the hundreds of horses living under the hood?
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The requirement that the driver be a virgin is fine for most users here, but in the real world...
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I personally prefer Unicorn-powered cars.... they never need to be replaced, and there's practically zero maintenance required..
You have to tap their vascular system if you want to make use of their power. They're not going to last forever, they may live thousands of years in the wild, but being strapped to a car with their blood draining out? No. You're going to need to catch a new one every few years, talk about a time sink.
And if you don't think any maintenance is involved, you just don't realize what all that rainbow-colored sherbet squirting everywhere really is. I'll give you a hint, it isn't a laser light show. And it will ea
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Don't know what's actually being used, but I recall 10-20 years ago reading about flywheels being made to target cars - small, but spun at truly insane speeds while magnetically suspended in vacuum. Made from wound carbon fiber so that they wouldn't rip themselves apart under normal operation - and if they *did* come apart, they basically vaporized, with individual fragments too small to penetrate the casing.
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In the end it may only make sense for vehicles that frequently need to generate/absorb massive amounts of torque, like race cars and buses. But for trucks hydraulic hybrids might be even better.
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Have you ever seen a commercially sold flywheel anything?
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Flywheel instead of battery? You realize we are talking about real life cars, right, not your Hot Wheels...
I'm not sure if Le Mans and Formula One cars should go in the Hot Wheels category or real life, but a bunch of them have been flywheel hybrids for the past few years.
How I decide what car to buy... (Score:5, Funny)
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When I'm trying to decide which car I should buy, the first people I look to are billionaires. Since their lifestyles and mine are so similar, and since they're obviously so much smarter than I am, I just assume that their decisions are the correct ones.
Steve Wozniak is no billionaire
But to your point, his ~$100mil net work means he can purchase scores of bleeding edge lemons and still have enough left over for the emergency uber ride or two.
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That's just sad.
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That's just sad.
What's wrong with the Prius? It's reasonably-priced, reliable, comfortable, quiet, efficient transportation. I don't own one, but it's my vehicle of choice when I'm renting a car.
Re:How I decide what car to buy... (Score:4, Insightful)
It's boring. It doesn't drive smoothly (the transitions between modes are not good -- at least on the gen 2 Prius that I drove).
Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with it, but it is not exciting to drive. If your ideal car is merely an appliance that gets you from A to B, then it's OK.
Obvious question? (Score:2, Insightful)
And in response to the obvious question, Woz replied "Maybe one Segway would fit. And a seat can be folded down."
I'm trying to see the obvious here, but all I can come up with is "Do you have any random comments? About the car, life, universe or anything?"
Remind me... (Score:2)
Re: Remind me... (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't buy a Tesla (Score:2, Insightful)
I hired a Tesla Model S with Insane mode for a day so I could properly try it out and do all the things one does with a car in normal use. While it does feel like driving a spaceship and is absolutely phenomenal performance-wise, I'm not going to buy one for a number of reasons. Chiefly, the user interface is atrocious and it's impossible to safely do anything with the main screen unless you are pulled over. I also found the rear seats to be very low and hard to get in and out of and Tesla's paint color opt
Re: I wouldn't buy a Tesla (Score:2)
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Is it any worse than the UConnect in vehicles? The reason my touch screen doesn't feel that dangerous is:
1. you can augment the touch with voice commands and physical buttons located on the steering wheel and dash
2. The touch screen buttons are huge for the few things you might need it for
3. typing (and reading text messages) is disabled if you're moving, you can only talk and have it text-to-speech messages to you
4. From the home screen there's pretty much nothing that requires more than four taps. I cou
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or a not-yet-empty water bottle in a cupholder...
My advice, look up the word "tactile." I don't think you understood the complaint, or that many of us don't look away from the road even long enough for one non-tactile interaction, much less to navigate a menu.
You're probably one of those magical beings that knows everything that is around your car, even while you're fiddling with the center console, because gosh, it was "all clear" last time you looked up! I hope I'm not the one coming the other way when you come around a corner and cross the center line,
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Except build quality on tesla has not been that great. CU rescinded their recommendation it had so many problems even though they loved the car. Another quote I saw from a woman who owned an X was she would never tolerate the level of problems in her Escalade she had with her X. And from what I have read the X is truly a piece of crap. The S is basically middle of the road reliability.
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Lets see the Escalade do that
Re: Ridiculous (Score:2)
Early production X had door alignment problems. All fixed now plus software update.
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You forgot double vision windshield, 3rd row seats folding in a crash, windows won't open or close. That was just the first article I read from wired. I would have thought slashdot readers could use google. Guess I was wrong.
Re: Ridiculous (Score:2)
Early production. All fixed.
Re: Ridiculous (Score:2)
Re: no tks, we'll keep our '15 VW TDI SportWagen (Score:2)
You'll be required to install a fix which will kill economy and performance. Best option will be to sell it back to VW
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I'm sure someone will have a 'fix' for that. It's software after all, perhaps someone with the right tools can make a backup before doing the update.
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It would be as legal as defeating any other emissions feature or sensor on your car - big fines if you're caught.
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If you don't care about the pollution you are causing, I guess you could try to undo the fix.
A lot of people just don't care about polluting. Screw the environment.
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So which is more polluting, increased fuel usage or increased CO emissions?
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VW diesel has high NOx emissions. Lung damage and brain damage.
The fix will have higher CO2 emissions. Climate change.
It's bad either way. These cars need to be crushed.
Re:about that "competing" thing... (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as Tesla quality, we really don't know what they will deliver when mass producing a much cheaper vehicle. And from what I've read on some financial reviews, there is a good chance that the Tesla will cost more than initially suggested.
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Last picture I saw, he was well over 50 lbs beyond obese.
I'm 6'2", 250. Nobody has ever called me fat. Yet my BMI is 31, so I'm obese. Unless he's lost weight recently, he's well beyond me. 100+lbs
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Yet my BMI is 31, so I'm obese.
You are overweight. For statistical purposes, your data goes in the obese category.
If you want a more accurate assessment of your individual health, you could get a few tests, but start with the easiest - your waistline.
Or just look in the mirror. The "I'm not obese just a bit chubby" line won't help. There is no big health difference between 29.9 and 30.1.
Nobody has ever called me fat.
Not to your face, and all of us are fat now so nobody notices. Go back 30 years in time, and you'd look fat.
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I love to hear Wozniak's opinions on many things. But cars is not one.
From TFA:
Woz noted he’s owned several Detroit vehicles — a Buick, a couple of Pintos, and one current member of his fleet, a Hummer.
This is not an area where Woz's judgement or taste should be emulated.