A Design Defect Is Plaguing Many iPhone 6 and 6 Plus Units (iphonehacks.com) 222
Evan Selleck, writing for iPhoneHacks (edited and condensed): For many iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus owners out there in the wild, a design defect is apparently causing some huge issues. Gadget repair firm iFixit has reported about a flaw dubbed "Touch Disease", which it claims is cropping up. With it, owners of the phones are experiencing, to start, a gray bar that appears at the very top of their display. And, for many others, the display itself becomes unresponsive to touch, or less responsive overall. In the blog post, iFixit says the problem stems from issues with the touchscreen controller chip, which is soldered onto the logic board. Interestingly enough, iFixit posits that the same internal design decisions that led to "Endgate" might be causing the issue leading to Touch Disease, too: "In both the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, the Touch IC chips connect to the logic board via an array of itty-bitty solder balls -- "like a plate resting on marbles," Jessa explains. Over time, as the phone flexes or twists slightly during normal use, those solder balls crack and start to lose contact with the board. "At first, there may be no defect at all. Later you might notice that the screen is sometimes unresponsive, but it is quick to come back with a hard reset," Jessa explains. "As the crack deepens into a full separation of the chip-board bond, the periods of no touch function become more frequent."
You're (Score:5, Funny)
bending it wrong.
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Defective by Design (Score:2, Insightful)
So that you buy the iPhone 7.
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Only reason - Apple Pay, and also, I want a storage upgrade to 64GB. ... FaceTime is the only reason I use an iPhone
I'm not sure you understand what "only" means.
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Skype's been available since like forever.
Re:Defective by Design (Score:4, Informative)
Apple pay isn't on android, by definition. Unless you're talking about the competing Google Pay, which is a different competing standard. And then there's Samsung pay because they have to duplicate everything Google does.
The real question is whether your institution supports it. If your bank, etc, supports Apple Pay but not Google Pay, or vis versa, and you really want that functionality, then your answer is clear, regardless of your brand loyalty.
Also, what is this facetime equivalent you speak of, assuming you're not just talking about Skype?
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Hmm...
*google Samsung Pay*
*goes to Samsung Pay website*
"SAMSUNG PAY IS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE ONLY IN THE US AND KOREA" in ginormous 48 point font.
So much for that... :P
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Apple pay isn't on android, by definition. Unless you're talking about the competing Google Pay, which is a different competing standard.
You mean Android Pay, not Google Pay. And it's not a different, competing standard. Both Apple Pay and Android Pay use the same NFC technologies and standards.
On the name, I should point out that it's somewhat understandable that you call it "Google Pay", since Android Pay is a successor to Google Wallet, which was Google's original NFC payment solution, released in 2011 (long before Apple Pay). The Google Wallet approach was a little different, though. Because of payment network limitations, Google used
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Thank you!
If that doesn't deserve a +5 Informative, I dunno what does.
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Google Hangouts has let you make video calls for almost as long as Facetime. It's actually functionally superior to Facetime - it allows multiple people in the hangout (basically a conference call with just text, sound, or video, or any combo, also supposed to have a whiteboard feature though I never used it) across multiple platforms (phones, tablets, PCs; Android, iOS, Windows, OS X, Linux). Or at least it
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apple pay isn't new, and was on android phones a long time ago. Face time has an android equivalent now. Don't be a sucker.
I'd have to check which of them my cards work w/. I have Android Pay on my Moto-X. On the Lumia, I have a 550, rather than a 950, so Microsoft Wallet won't support payments on that model.
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I don't use iPhones for music, so the lack of the .35mm slot won't be an issue.
that's good because they never had a .35mm .. they did however have a 3.5mm
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64 gig? I find that surprising. Samsung has had 64g for years.
So did iPhone 4s. Apple came out with iPhone 4s at the starting of the 4th quarter in 2011 [wikipedia.org]. Samsung came out with 64GB model -- Galaxy S III [wikipedia.org] -- in May 2012 [wikipedia.org]. All before that, more storage spaces (up to 32GB at the time) on Sumsung phone are from external/removable, not built-in. Back in 2011, you should be surprised by 64GB storage space on a cellphone (and it was very expensive to get that kind of storage size on a phone).
If you really want to make that silly comment, please get the fact straight first (and
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64 gig? I find that surprising. Samsung has had 64g for years.
So did iPhone 4s. Apple came out with iPhone 4s at the starting of the 4th quarter in 2011 [wikipedia.org]. Samsung came out with 64GB model -- Galaxy S III [wikipedia.org] -- in May 2012 [wikipedia.org]. All before that, more storage spaces (up to 32GB at the time) on Sumsung phone are from external/removable, not built-in. Back in 2011, you should be surprised by 64GB storage space on a cellphone (and it was very expensive to get that kind of storage size on a phone).
If you really want to make that silly comment, please get the fact straight first (and then there wouldn't be such this kind of comment).
And Samsung you are able to expand it with a TF card.. can you do that with apple? if you want to leave a comment that laves you open to being laughed at for your non expandable fruity cupertino company
Not a design flaw (Score:3, Funny)
The owners are holding it wrong
I-Beams (Score:2)
Sounds like apple could use some mechanical engineers to stiffen up the case by design.
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Or just make the phone thicker so it has more rigidity... the HORROR.
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There are multiple ways to solve the problem. Making the phone thicker also results in more material use. Additionally depending on the materials you're still might not get the bending moment of inertia you need.
Plus you miss the marketing opportunity of "Now with a titanium backbone" marketing.
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Making the phone thicker also results in more material use.
Which I'm sure is a great concern to a company which used to mill a laptop case out of a solid aluminium block.
Re:I-Beams (Score:4, Interesting)
Making a phone thicker adds minimal structural material. Only around the edges. More volume internally, but actual structural material increase is negligible. Stiffness of the phone increases with the cube of thickness, so a small increase in thickness = more volume = infinitesimal increase in structural material = massive increase in stiffness. And you can put more battery in that extra volume, too...
Going from an 8mm thick phone to a 10mm thick phone may increase structural materials by 5%, but you gain 73% more stiffness and 25% more internal volume.
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But how will I chop onions?
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Thermal expansion. Hard reset means that the components stop receiving a current for a brief period, allowing them to cool, and therefore, shrink. You might get the same, or similar results from just putting it down and leaving it alone for a few minutes.
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Gawd, don't tell people that. We'll have a thousand YouTube videos showing how to put your iPhone in the freezer to "fix" it.
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Thermal expansion. Hard reset means that the components stop receiving a current for a brief period, allowing them to cool, and therefore, shrink. You might get the same, or similar results from just putting it down and leaving it alone for a few minutes.
So blowing on it might actually work in this case!?
YouTube video showing BGA damage under microscope (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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I love performing electronic repairs, although I do not have practice (and wonder how good I would be) on devices this small. However I do not see the economi
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The average iPhone user is not going to evaluate the repair on anything but the replacement cost. Disposal of the old phone is a negative cost - after all, there is a large market for broken iPhones. So sell the year-old broken phone for $100, get the "newest" phone with all the new features for $100 down payment, and the cell company just charges an extra $50 a month for a few more years.
To people who don't understand the costs of buying on credit (which are most of them) it's a new phone for free.
To the
Re:YouTube video showing BGA damage under microsco (Score:5, Informative)
FYI: BGA = Ball Grid Array,
"Ball Grid Array rework is one of the most challenging procedures performed at assembly facilities and repair depots around the world. " ---
http://www.circuitrework.com/f... [circuitrework.com]
Lead free solder to blame??? (Score:4, Informative)
Yep. BGAs are difficult to rework, but perhaps the real blame for this can be aimed at the EU when they forced the electronics industry to transition to lead free solder 15 years ago, while not touching other industries, like car batteries.
Solder used to be 60%tin 40% lead. Lead was a great modifier to give ductility to solder joints. By going to almost 100% tin, solder joints are now more brittle, thus micro BGAs suffer more from thermal expansion fractures and shear fractures from physical drops.
The crazy thing, is the transition, which cost the industry Billions, was based on unproven science that tin/lead solder leached in ground fill rubbish dumps. It doesn't unless you have acid. But here we are today, stuck with a EU mandated change that increases energy to manufacturer and decreases reliability (see tin asker problem as well).
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Some of the motor controllers I have to repair at work are made in the EU and cold solder is a huge issue with those due to the lead free solder. I do sometimes see cracked solder joints too. A lot of these controllers are 10+ years old. The whole process to get a board ready for testing takes about 40 minutes. Disassembly, rework, and reassembly for testing. The design is kind of shit, but they're otherwise a solid product functionally if it wasn't for the lead free solder.
As far as BGA's go, fuck that. Th
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Thanks for that video, it's completely amazing to watch!
Apple to fix it? (Score:2)
Re:Apple to fix it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering the huge price of these things (love my iPhone 6+ anyway) let's hope Apple will offer some solution.
Presumably they will offer a solution, along the lines of "bend over and buy an iPhone 7, peasant!"
Re:Apple to fix it? (Score:5, Informative)
Reminder to EU residents, all electronics must come with a minimum 2 year guarantee under EU rules. Each country implements it a little differently, but you have at least a 2 year warranty.
Reminder to UK residents, in the UK the Sale of Goods Act applies. An expensive, high end phone should last 6 years. If it dies after 3 years then Apple can either repair it or offer you a 50% refund, excluding any damage you did and fair wear and tear.
If they argue, mention the Sale of Goods Act (loudly, in their store) and if that fails Small Claims Court.
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Where do you get the "50% refund..." figure from? Could you cite a source?
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The Sale of Goods Act. Goods must last a reasonable length of time, typically 6 years for electronics. If it doesn't, you get a refund. The retailer can argue that you had 50% life's use out of it, and courts generally use that to calculate the refund.
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"typically 6 years for electronics"
I suspect that time range was for a toaster or a TV. Items that are not portable, subject to weather, extreme heat/cold conditions, dropped regularly, and on 24/7.
6 years ago, you could have gotten a brand new iPhone 4 or a discounted 3GS. How many of those are still operational?
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I still have a working 3GS. The only thing which did not last was the crappy Apple headphones.
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Reminder to AU residents you also have a Sales of Goods Act that applies and puts in previsions for expected performance including longevity.
That's why Microsoft had to replace Xbox360s out of warranty.
Don't count on it... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've personally had 3 iPhone 4 & 4S's get the dreaded "wifi grayed out" issue where your wifi, bluetooth and gps stop working. It was so common that dozens of forum threads involved long discussions about it (you can still find them easily - and also on ebay devices with the problem) and even Apple had a page about it where they offered as a solution to "reset your network settings". Obviously this did nothing, as it was discovered the problem was the temperature sensor was malfunctioning and disabling the wireless module (which took down BT, GPS as well) and once your one year warranty was over you were out of luck with Apple. What's crazy is that the temperature sensor was not enabled with the shipping iOS of the iPhone 4 (possibly the iPhone 4S as well), but Apple enabled it from either iOS 5 or iOS 6 (I forget - but people not upgrading never had the problem), so they could disable it again if they wanted to. But they did not want to, my company purchased 3 iPhones for me because they were all failing the same way (after being used only in the office, sitting on a desk, occasionally debugging iOS apps), so it was good money for Apple.
Apple won't fix a widespread problem even if it is just a firmware update for them, so don't count on a solution (other than offering you the newest iPhone perhaps with a "generous 10% discount" if you are "lucky").
So much for Apple's "better design" (Score:2, Interesting)
I would like to hear what Apple fan boys especially in the media have to say about this. There's one particular Apple zealot who wrote this [businessinsider.com], praising Apple's design as still the best. I will wait for his take.
Re:So much for Apple's "better design" (Score:5, Informative)
"you're soldering it wrong"
isn't that what nvidia said?
these bga's really scare me. so fragile and so unworkable from a tech POV. I can rework square flat packs but I can't do bga's. I hate them since they are just not really repair-friendly, not to mention its not inspection-friendly.
flat packs with leads flex and bend. bga's are a fucking abortion, especially if they are at all big, in chip size.
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> its not inspection-friendly.
That what JTAG boundary scan is for.
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That what JTAG boundary scan is for.
Seldom used, I have no idea what Apple does, but most places I work with do not use JTAG for factory test of consumer devices. The other issue is that if this was an issue that came from board flex or a bad solder joint, JTAG would not have caught it...at the time of manufacture the part was still making contact!
The only things I know of that can reliably catch weak joints are "bed of nails" probes, which are not frequently done on devices like cell phones where every p
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I didn't say whether JTAG BS was good or bad. I said that's what it's for. It can perform continuity checks on otherwise inaccessible pins. Done right boundary scan can and is used for periodic self test, but no so much in consumer gear. It's widely supported in silicon.
BGAs can be fine if done properly, but 'done properly' can be hard to achieve when they keep shrinking the grid and ball sizes so no one knows what 'done properly' entails.
I agree, the flex cause seems unfounded. Poor solder joint integrity
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The Nvidia issue was a bit different. Due to repeated heating/cooling cycles eventually the solder joints would fail as the PCB and chip expanded and contracted. In the iPhone's case the movement is not due to heat but rather flexing of the entire phone (TFA typos "bendgate" as "endgate", repeated in the summary).
The iPhone 6/6+ are kinda bendy phones. Tests showed that they were significantly weaker than other phones in the market, requiring much less force to deform. Repeated flexing and poor mechanical d
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Planned obsolescence is good for business if done right. It's like the recall formula from Fight Club.
If X phones need replacing before Y years have passed, and most users can be easily convinced to buy a new phone after Y years (Y is probably about 2), and the cost of replacing X phones is less than waiting Z years for people to buy a new phone, (Z = number of years it take people to replace a phone that has no real issues, so Z probably close to 4 or 5), then the "broken" phones are profitable to the com
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tv-washer-dryer-refrigerator-stereo
That sounds like an awesome appliance.
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control-alt-f12 defrosts. its pretty sweet, really.
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However, if you look at Louis Rossman's videos, the Nvidia issue was due to internal points WITHIN the chip, not due to the BGA points themselves. This means that simply reflowing the chip (or even resurfacing and resoldering the BGA) won't solve the issue. You NEED a new chip.
Heating the chip might slightly reflow the internal connections which may make the device work for a few days or even we
Re:So much for Apple's "better design" (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/09/consumer-reports-tests-iphone-6-bendgate/index.htm
Apple iPhone 6 70 lbs
Apple iPhone 6 Plus 90 lbs
LG G3 130 lbs
Apple iPhone 5 130 lbs
Samsung Galaxy Note 5 150 lbs
So an iPhone 6 is about twice as easy to deform as an iPhone 5 and other manufacturer's high end phones.
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Yes, it's significantly weaker than other phones on the market. Even when you limit "other phones" to just Apple's own offerings, against which it should comp
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Inspection friendly is a matter of opinion.
Inspection for who? For you and me, they are not inspection friendly. For the QA parts of production they are just as inspection friendly as every other system. A bit of x-ray and some electrical tests are similar for all packages.
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Although Nvidia's (customers) problem was somewhat different - NV decided to save few pennies on BGAs by telling their foundry not to bother putting stress relieving layers on their wafers. Great writeup is here [theinquirer.net]
BGAs in general are fine. Overtime, mechanical stress will kill anything not properly designed for it.
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We, the hardware design community, have been working with BGAs now for well over a decade. A lot of time and energy has gone in to investigating how to design them in and get good results on a reasonably consistent basis. Still shit happens both in manufacturing and product integration.
The absolute worst description for BGAs I have ever read is this:
the Touch IC chips connect to the logic board via an array of itty-bitty solder balls -- "like a plate resting on marbles,"
I understand that hobbyists do not
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When dealing with millions, nothing at all is completely reliable. The PCBs they are built on fall out, even simple resistors will not lay down flat 100% of the time. But you can reliably make a working product.
A phone in which a human checks everything carefully with test equipment would cost you more than you'd want to pay.
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If you don't use BGA you can inspect visually (accurately, and without X-Rays). This can be done by a human in a second, or by a machine or a pigeon in a fraction of a second.
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This is the first time I've heard of this problem.
I have an iPhone 6 and many people I know have the 6 or 6s and nobody has reported it that I am aware of. This, to me, suggests that the "many" spoken of in TFS is actually quite a small percentage of iPhone 6/6s owners.
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Yep, in an nutshell.
You sell 215 million (how many phones Apple sold in the last 12 months) of *anything*, and there's going to be a tiny percentage of them that go wrong in some pattern-like way. Even 0.001% of 215 million is 2150 people with a problem, and although a failure rate of 0.001% is pretty damn good with such a complex device, that's still enough for "many" people to come up with a common problem and someone to get some ad-revenue from the click-bait headline.
(Also own an iPhone, a 6+, and haven
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I have a 6 Plus and have not had this problem nor heard about it until yesterday, when I saw the story elsewhere. However anecdotal evidence does not necessarily invalidate the claims being made.
What I'd be curious about, though, is the results of a survey attempting to correlate the various problems people have reported with the 6 or 6 Plus (or any large phone, for that matter) with how those same people carry their phones. I see a fair number of people keeping their cell phones in their pant's back pocket
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The plural of 'small sample size anecdote' is not 'data'.
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This page [mendonipadrehab.com], that Google returned as the first link [google.com], is rather extensive.
Clearly this is a massive problem, both in how many are affected, and the cost to rectify things.
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Well, I'll be the counter-anecdote, then. When I bought my iPhone6+, after about two weeks it started to compulsively touch itself. For example, I could be looking at a Google Map (not doing anything, just looking at the phone while it sat on the table), and suddenly the map would spontaneously scroll from my location in LA to somewhere in Utah, all on its own; as if it had received a touch event somewhere way off the edge of the screen. Similar strange spontaneous behaviors would occur in all other apps
Interesting design/engineering question (Score:2)
Something like this poses an interesting challenge. When you have to build a product that is not quite cheap enough to easily replace, but expensive enough to make it painful to do so, and has a shelf life of about 3 years, what design corners do you cut?
Back when computers of any kind were thousands of dollars, the answer was easy - engineer them to the max since people were paying good money for them and wanted them to last. This is how we get things like the IBM PC case made out of solid steel. Now the e
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I can say this despite liking the iPhone (Score:2)
When they made the 6 and 6+, Apple broke one of the most critical tenets of engineering: Form Follows Function, not the other way 'round. Thinner isn't always better. They made the 6 and 6+ trendy, hip and skinny -- and that broke the Function part of engineering.
I'm glad I still have my 5S, and when the time comes that it goes to cellphone heaven, I'll replace it with a new small phone. I'm so glad Apple is making one again. Fatter, shorter phones don't bend as much as a thin huge phone.
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In this case, form is function--part of the function of a mobile phone is to be portable. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been more careful with it--supposedly the 6s is less bendable, which means they could design it to be strong AND skinny, if they want--but part of what I want in my phone is for it to be as invisible to me as possible when I'm not actually carrying it.
Whether or not that meets your goal for 'function' is another question. I can easily see other people wanting a phone that's consi
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"When I'm not actually USING it" is what that should read. Sigh. :/
I had this issue with a G4 laptop (Score:2)
Maybe I'm doing it wrong? (Score:4, Funny)
Ugh (Score:3)
I'm pretty sure (Score:3)
Tom Brady was responsible. He breaks every cell phone he can find.
Re: Had the problem... (Score:2)
The Apple Store replaced mine under AppleCare+ about a month ago. It was a crapshoot as to when the problem would rear its head, but it did happen while I was near an Apple Store, so I took it in and they handed me a new one.
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Honest question, what technologies exist to get the IO density that you can get with BGA? What alternatives are there?
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Same ones used on LCD screens - teeny-tiny arrays of connections on the edge, that you simply glue the control IC to. You don't even need solder.
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Sure, you'll just grab that bare 7x2mm die with your fingers in your living room, and just plop it down and magically align the hundreds of pins perfectly to the 1 mil traces on the 1 mil thick Kapton board, and then what? Get the Krazy Glue you enjoy huffing?
Still easier and more feasible than repairing anything using BGA.
The common denominator (Score:5, Insightful)
And soon to be a fifth, all in under two years. This last one only lasted about three weeks.
If indeed that is true I think the problem is most likely you, or more accurately something you are doing. While Apple does have issues with devices from time to time, the probability of a single person have 5 failed iPhones in two years due to (conveniently unspecified) quality problems is remote to say the least. I've known of people to break that many phones in a similarly short time span but that was a user error problem. If there was evidence of Apple having widespread quality issues I'd be the first to pile on but I just don't see the evidence for it here.
Re:The common denominator (Score:4, Funny)
He's probably dropping it wrong.
Apple support (Score:3)
I see someone's dealt with Apple's "support". It's never Apple's problem. It's always "you're doing it wrong".
Hogwash. I've had two iPhones replaced by Apple in the last 5 years. One for cracked screen - small crack in upper right corner they indicated was a known design issue, replaced for free. The other was for a camera that wouldn't focus for some reason, also replaced for free under warranty. I'm under no illusions that if I threw my phone on the ground or dropped it in the toilet that they would replace it for free (that would be my fault) but they've been nothing but courteous and helpful when I've neede
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Maybe they live in a sauna.
Seriously, a friend of a friend's son who works in their public bath had similar issues until he realized that the very humid environment and moving between indoors and outdoors was causing moisture to build up inside.
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You'd be surprised how frequently Apple's pieces of shit go through repair stores. If you so much as look at them wrong, they'll crack or break. If you work in a mixed Apple/PC environment, go ahead and ask how often Apple's shit has to be repaired. You'd be amazed.
Remember Antennagate? Bendgate? Screengate? (Different Screengate, this one was MacBook Pros having their displays turning all blotchy.) There was a time when recommended advice for failing MacBook Pros was to try baking them briefly to see if th
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Good luck trying to get *any* cell phone without BGA chips in them. Or any electronics component, really - maybe a toaster.
To be honest, I agree with the above poster. Absent any specifics, I'd say the problem is you and how you treat the phone.
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Well, literally hundreds of millions of people (per year) buy iPhones (last 12 months was 215 million) and don't have this problem.
I could see you getting a bad phone - shit happens. I could (just about) see you getting *two* bad phones out of two. There is no way I'd buy that you got three successive phones that failed in the same way, as for five ? Well, I'll be charitable and say you must be the unluckiest person on the planet. Is your name Brian [imgflip.com] by any chance ?
For reference: [bgr.com] "In line with the firm
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A "failure" here includes an app that crashes. In your case you're saying the touch screen has failed to work, 4 times in a row, and somehow you know it's about to be 5 times.
The chance of a failure involving the touchscreen is statistically (from the report you didn't read) 3%. Raising 0.03 to the fifth power gives a failure rate of 0.0000000243.
Still going with Occam.
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Are you storing your phone in your back pocket? Are you wearing tight jeans that is putting physical flex on the board? Sitting on the phone? If you are, you might be able to get them to last longer by avoiding those behaviors.
Note: I'm not defending Apple, or justifying their quality/phone/design. I'm just saying that, knowing what the cause is of this failure, a behavioral change could make a huge differ
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Yeah I honestly am curious if simply reflowing the board is adequate to fix it, or if there is damage to the IC/PCB as well that makes rework a bad idea?
We've seen these issues with many other BGA parts (Macbook Pro 2009 is a prime example), especially since RoHS compliance resulted in lead-free BGA balls being phased in. Lead BGA balls had more give and self-annealed, but these lead-free ones seem to need more babying and fatigue due to temperature cycling and flexure much more than before.