Apple's Electric Car Project To Be Led By Bob Mansfield (techcrunch.com) 143
An anonymous reader writes: Long-time Apple executive Bob Mansfield will lead Apple's electric car project, according to the Wall Street Journal. TechCrunch reports: "Mansfield stepped down from the Apple executive board in 2013, yet stayed around the company to work on, what Apple called, special projects. In this role he was reporting directly to Apple CEO Tim Cook. One of Mansfield's projects turned out to be the Apple Watch. Now it seems he will head-up Apple's car ambitions -- a project Apple has yet to publicly confirm. During Mansfield's tenure he lead the engineering teams responsible for numerous products including the MacBook Air, iMac, and the iPad."
A car from the guy who brought us the Apple Watch (Score:2)
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No thanks.
Why?
94% of AppleWatch owners are still happy [computerworld.com] after a year of ownership. Not many cars have better satisfaction ratings (though some do).
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I just love the "non-problem" chant. It's like saying movies and video games are a solution to a "non-problem", go read a book.
If it weren't for products selling to appease the masses from "non-problems" you'd likely live in an empty shipping container with a coal burning stove and eating gruel 3 times a day. Most of modern life is about solving "non-problems."
And this isn't to say that the Apple watch (or any smartwatch for that matter) is a great product but you people who keep cawing on about "non-proble
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I'm no fan of smart watches but is there really anything wrong with the Apple watch aside from the fact that the whole concept is a solution to a non-problem?
They're a great solution to the problem "I have spare money that I want to spend on an expensive, impractical gadget".
Main problems (shared with most high-end smartwatches):
1. Short battery life: Fail to put it on charge at night and its useless the next day, something that's most likely to happen when your routine is disrupted, e.g. by travel, which is just when you're most likely to need a smartwatch.
2. Normally off OLED display: strictly for people who don't remember why the LED digital watches of th
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3. Obligatory XKCD reference [xkcd.com]. Seriously - this. I've got a phone with accurate time that can be in my hand in 2 seconds, one-handed. It's barely less convenient than a watch, especially a dumbwatch on which I either have to press a button, invoke Siri or strike a mail-order-catalog "I am now looking at my watch" pose to get the display to turn on.
Personally (and I've believed this for a lot longer than smart watches have been a "thing") I think there's something to be said for reducing life's little annoyances. Reducing the keys on my keyring, for instance, made a small but noticeable change in my daily routine. I had to re-key some locks in and around my house, but I think it paid long-term dividends. When I moved to a new house, I went to a simple keypad entry system (without IoT) and now I only have to carry the key fob to my car. It made me happ
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Since iPhones have a much larger market share than OSX devices your point is moot. But don't let that stop you from blabbing on about it. Or the fact that Apple has sold more iWatch products than all other smartwatches combined.
(a) iOS market share [netmarketshare.com] is around 30% c.f. 70% for Android - and these days, that Android figure includes a lot of high-end phones from Samsung et. al. Apple could probably double their target market by supporting Android. On what planet does that not make sense?
(b) Most of the competing smartwatches suffer the exact same drawbacks as the Apple Watch: high price, poor battery life, normally-off emissive display, too bulky/delicate/expensive for sport. The FitBit (not a full smartwatch - but nails the most co
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Still bitter that The Apple Watch sold more units in one day than Android watches did all 2014?
Huh?! What has that got to do with anything?!? Apple (and many others) have tried to sell a device that fails on the simple premises of being a 'watch' before any other bells and whistles. Fits nicely on the the wrist, minimal weight, battery lasts for years... Now put the simple premises of a car, addressed as badly as smart watches have been and see how badly that thing gets you from A to B.
Software updates (Score:2)
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You must reboot your car to install updates. Click here to automatically pull over and do it now, or here to do it tonight. Sorry that you are driving and in the middle of something while I am pestering you with this. - Your car. PS - Last night, you were hacked.
I found your problem: You must be in a Microsoft car.
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Could be worse... (Score:2)
It could be led by Rob Liefeld.
Hard to fathom they would actually build cars (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean whole cars meant for consumer sale.
While it's not like they don't have the cash (in Ireland..), but vehicle assembly is a huge job and I'm guessing that many of the parts for an electric car aren't something you can necessarily just get out of the Bosch parts bin or get from jobbers.
My guess is they're building one to try to understand them from the ground up to be suppliers of technology or to lure a major carmaker without an electric car into building it for them.
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My guess is they're building one to try to understand them from the ground up to be suppliers of technology or to lure a major carmaker without an electric car into building it for them.
Making electric car components is not hard, and there are few real gains to be made in the drive train. The biggest area remaining for innovation/cost reduction is the batteries, and I doubt that Apple wants to become the world's biggest battery company. I suspect the whole 'electric car' angle is simply because they wouldn't exactly start working on a future transport solution by using a petrol car as a base.
Autonomous cars will be a massive disruptor the day they are released. This will happen someday, bu
Innovation in cars (Score:4, Interesting)
Making electric car components is not hard, and there are few real gains to be made in the drive train.
Speaking as someone who makes electronic car components for a living, I'd say you have no idea what you are talking about if you think making them isn't hard. I think there are substantial gains still to be made in the drive trains, particularly for EVs and hybrid vehicles. I think gasoline and diesel engines are probably well into the diminishing returns though.
The biggest area remaining for innovation/cost reduction is the batteries, and I doubt that Apple wants to become the world's biggest battery company
Any company that wants to compete in EVs in a big way is going to have to become a battery company or have VERY tight relations with one. I agree that batteries are probably the biggest area in need of advancement and the most likely to see it happen.
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Making electric car components is not hard, and there are few real gains to be made in the drive train.
Speaking as someone who makes electronic car components for a living, I'd say you have no idea what you are talking about if you think making them isn't hard. I think there are substantial gains still to be made in the drive trains, particularly for EVs and hybrid vehicles. I think gasoline and diesel engines are probably well into the diminishing returns though.
Okay, so what would be an innovation in drivelines that would be so disruptive to the industry? Better power electronic switches? You think Apple is doing all this so they can beat out infineon on power switch topologies? Or maybe they have some new improved modulation software for the drivers that will improve them over the 95%+ efficiency they are now. You think that is what a consumer electronics company has 1000 engineers working on? What about motors? Are they developing a core steel that can handle hi
Drivetrain improvements (Score:2)
Okay, so what would be an innovation in drivelines that would be so disruptive to the industry?
Room temperature superconducting motors at economically viable price points. That would be a very substantial innovation and there is no known opportunity for equivalent improvement in fossil fuel drivetrains. You seem to have missed the point. I'm saying that EV drivetrains have more room to improve than fossil fuel ones in automobiles. I'm not saying they aren't already very good - they are.
You think Apple is doing all this so they can beat out infineon on power switch topologies?
I have no idea what Apple is doing and don't pretend to. Whatever improvements they might bring to the car indu
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Really there is huge gains to be made in the drive trains for electric vehicles? May I scathingly ask where? Is it the motors - nope they are already ludicrously efficient. Is it the gearing - nope nothing new going on there. Is it the power electronics - I guess some small gains may be made here but nothing radical. So where exactly are the substantial gains going to come in the drive train then?
Improvement in electric vehicles will all come from the power source, be it batteries, fuel cells or something
EV drivetrains (Score:2)
Really there is huge gains to be made in the drive trains for electric vehicles? May I scathingly ask where?
You may although there is no need to get scathing about it. If you want to skip the incremental improvements we can go straight to superconductivity.
Supercapacitors are in kind of a grey area between power source and drive train controls and probably are an opportunity. You noted some of the other opportunities (transmissions, electronics, controls, etc) which are more incremental in nature. There also are economic opportunities for improvement. Electric drivetrains are comparatively expensive at the pr
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Then there is a question of cooling. Tesla uses a rather simplistic pr
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Making electric car components is not hard, and there are few real gains to be made in the drive train.
Speaking as someone who makes electronic car components for a living, I'd say you have no idea what you are talking about if you think making them isn't hard. I think there are substantial gains still to be made in the drive trains, particularly for EVs and hybrid vehicles. I think gasoline and diesel engines are probably well into the diminishing returns though.
The biggest area remaining for innovation/cost reduction is the batteries, and I doubt that Apple wants to become the world's biggest battery company
Any company that wants to compete in EVs in a big way is going to have to become a battery company or have VERY tight relations with one. I agree that batteries are probably the biggest area in need of advancement and the most likely to see it happen.
And in case anyone hasn't noticed, Apple is one of the leading innovators in battery technology.
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Historically Apple haven't made most of the components in their systems anyway. They bought a CPU company (although not an actual fab, they just do design) but that's about it. Everything else is off the shelf or slightly customised for Apple but basically standard stuff, with a shiny Apple case wrapped around it.
So chances are their car will be mostly just parts from established manufacturers with an Apple shell and high level software.
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I guess that's part of my question. A lot of car parts do come from the existing global parts supply chains, so building a "new" internal combustion vehicle wouldn't be that hard because almost nothing about it would be unique or proprietary and would be available from suppliers, right down to complete power trains.
With electric cars, though, there's a lot of engineering synthesis between the batteries, the drive train, even the braking (for regenerative braking) and in some ways, even the chassis consider
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Historically Apple haven't made most of the components in their systems anyway.
By "make" do you mean "Design", or strictly "Manufacture"?
//c days.
Because, other than IBM (and maybe even including them), Apple likely Designs more custom silicon for their products than any other "high-tech" company. They wisely have steered-clear of the money-pit that is "Fabrication", though.
Oh, and the custom-chip-designing history at Apple goes back even to the Apple
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Historically Apple haven't made most of the components in their systems anyway. They bought a CPU company (although not an actual fab, they just do design) but that's about it. Everything else is off the shelf or slightly customised for Apple but basically standard stuff, with a shiny Apple case wrapped around it.
So chances are their car will be mostly just parts from established manufacturers with an Apple shell and high level software.
As opposed to Google? What apart from Internet Search has Google developed that didn't actually come from a company they bought? Heck, all their "inventions" in autonomous cars were ready long before Google even existed.
Already there (Score:3)
I doubt that Apple wants to become the world's biggest battery company.
Why do you not think they already are? With over a billion iPhones sold, hundreds of millions of iPads, hundreds of millions of laptops... few companies on earth can surpass Apple on battery manufacturing and research and most importantly charging and management firmware. Not even Tesla.
Honestly what company on earth makes greater use of advanced batteries than Apple today?
This will happen someday, but maybe not as soon as people thin
Not self driving, just electric (Score:2)
Most likely they're already in talks with Elon Musk to buy batteries.
After that it's just an assembly line. Automotive engineers and industrial engineers are all over the world. Building electric cars is well within their capability.
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In reality this means you get the engine from a Nissan Leaf, the suspension from a Citroen C1, the chassis form a Chevorlet Cruze, the dash and cluster from a Tata Nano and the battery from a Halfords bargain bin wrapped an expensive plastic shell to be sold to you by a
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Apple will biuld cars in the same way they build phones. They buy complete components from someone else, have them bolted together by cheap labour, encase them in an body kit and then charge an arm and a leg for the "Transport Experience".
You're full of shit.
Apple designs their own SoCs for their iOS devices.
Apple designs their own PCBs. Apple designs and manufactures their own batteries. Apple designs and manufactures their own packaging (chassis/cases, etc.).
Apple designed and manufactures their own biometric sensor and its associated electronics.
Apple designed their own I/O connector (Lightning) and everything to go with it.
Apple designs and manufactures their own power supplies and AC adapters.
Apple designs and manufactures t
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There's a bit of truth to that. I mean, Apple competing with the likes of Tesla and such seems unlikely, and Google's got a good head start with autonomous vehicles so it seems like an Apple car is nothing more than a research project. Plus, as Tesla found out, the dealership model isn't the greatest in the world to deal wit
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I mean whole cars meant for consumer sale.
While it's not like they don't have the cash (in Ireland..), but vehicle assembly is a huge job and I'm guessing that many of the parts for an electric car aren't something you can necessarily just get out of the Bosch parts bin or get from jobbers.
As opposed to the parts for the iPhone? Apple sure as hell knows how to design their own hardware, and how it can be made, and even how to tell external manufacturers how to build them http://www.technobuffalo.com/2... [technobuffalo.com]
Fuck, they build their own industrial robot to disassemble iPhones. For decades Apple was able to build parts themselves they couldn't buy - or at least convince somebody else to build it for them. Just take ARM and Gorilla Glass.
Are other Apple products a hint? (Score:2)
While it would seem certain that an Apple car would certainly be aesthetically pleasing (and sure to include design features not patented in a century of car design), will they diverge from what seems to be their standard approach with consumer technology devices?
Will it have a unique recharging cable? Or can only be recharged at outlets that also have the Apple vehicle charger?
Will it only run on Apple-approved roads?
Will you be able to change the battery?
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Whatsapp images and status & jokes (Score:1)
Apple missed a trick. (Score:2)
Executive Manager (Score:1)
Not another hardware project led by someone with an MBA or something. Just how hands-on is this guy?
Any under-the-hood ( auto) experience? Ever changed a water pump? Rewired the dashboard?
Installed own amp and speakers? Worksed with Industrial electronics and motor control systems?
Or is this guy just another management type, with a little web search learning, and maybe a bit of common-sense?
What are his qualifications? Besides being golf/dinner buddies with other management types?
I can see it now: (Score:2)
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What about 2040? (Score:2)
How are we going to power all of our electric cars if we're going to run out of electricity in 2040?
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How are we going to power all of our electric cars if we're going to run out of electricity in 2040?
No worries there, we'll all have stationary bicycles attached to generators, and we'll use them to recharge our car's battery before we go anywhere.
Love you long-time (Score:1)
The whole article is silys peculation;it's CarPlay (Score:2)
Now it seems he will head-up Apple’s car ambitions — a project Apple has yet to publicly confirm.
This silly Apple car rumor appears every year with some "sources inside Apple" saying that they will launch iCar any time now. I remember one time it certain that Apple would announce iCar because it was reported that Apple engineers met with Elon Musk and Tesla. Then Apple announced CarPlay. At this point, it is no big secret that Apple is working on CarPlay; they've been working on CarPlay all along. People somehow want it to be iCar but I don't see that as a remote possibility.
If everyone would think abo
Re:To Be Lied By Bob Mansfield (Score:5, Funny)
No, the headline is correct. The car's chassis is made from one giant LED, echoing late 90s kitsch.
The initial model will only come in Bondi Blue but later customizations will allow buyers to select from a choice of designs.
Me? I'll wait for the Flower Power release.
Re:To Be Lied By Bob Mansfield (Score:5, Funny)
A special Apple only charger. Fingerprint door locks, that brick your car if you need to replace them. A big iPod scroll wheel for steering. No left indicator, you can just buy a dongle if you need to turn left. Glass covered bodywork that looks amazing until it scratches and shatters, so naturally everyone will buy ugly 3rd party bumpers to protect it. Apple Maps as standard (that's the joke). The iCar 2 will be 0.03mm shorter, with a Plus model offered if you need space to carry any shopping or passengers.
Naturally there won't be a 12V power socket, just a Lightning connector that also charges the car and is where your seatbelt plugs in to. After a couple of years a software update will reduce its max speed to 30 MPH, to encourage you to upgrade.
This is going to be a comedy gold mine.
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And I guess none of this means anything either, right? http://www.reuters.com/article... [reuters.com] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]. But, you know, rounded corners was such an innovation. Literally took computer science forward 100 years.
It was a lot more than just rounded corners.
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Yet, strangely, that is what they sued over. I guess you guys know more then Apple, huh?
Well, show us the suit were they sued over rounded corners. Not the design of the iPhone, but over "rounded corners and nothing else".
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And Dealer only service at forced X miles or the car will be forced into limp mode. ATT only data plan with big roaming fees for going out side of the usa.
NEVAR FORGET: (Score:2)
No wireless. Less space than a nomad [wikipedia.org]. Lame.
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I misread it at first too, thought it said "manshield".
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And you think computers don't have tight margins? Apple's ludicrous mark-ups? Somehow Apple makes ludicrous markups while managing in most cases to undercut the prices of their competitors.
And for the GP post, how much support structure did Tesla have ten years ago? Apple certainly has the cash to build a support structure.
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I don't think you're looking very hard then. E.g. the last time I price out a Lenovo X1 Carbon compared to an MB Air, the MBA was less expensive.
Oh look, I can finally get 16GB in the X1 Carbon. Fully decked out, $1857. 13" MB Air, fully decked out (but only 8GB RAM), $1649
Thinkpad P70, quad i7, 16GB, 512GB SSD, $3234. 15" Macbook Pro, quad i7, 16GB, 512GB SSD, $2699.
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And so on.
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Nope, the latest release has broadwell. They are indeed a full generation behind. An apple head friend of mine just bought a brand new MBA and he said: slower than my three year old MBP.
I'm writing this in a comparable light computer 3200x1800, 16 GB at about the same price as an MBA.
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Your friend's brand new MBA is interesting why? I wrote next refresh.
And your comparable light computer for the same price as a MBA is what exactly? Is it anywhere near close to the same build quality? Or is it some loss leader piece of crap? You're not bold enough to post the make and model because why, exactly?
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Your friend's brand new MBA is interesting why? I wrote next refresh.
And your comparable light computer for the same price as a MBA is what exactly? Is it anywhere near close to the same build quality? Or is it some loss leader piece of crap? You're not bold enough to post the make and model because why, exactly?
Because he doesn't want anyone to expose his lies.
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Your friend's brand new MBA is interesting why?
Because he bought the latest refresh model, released less a month or two ago. This means Apple is at least two refresh cycles behind.
As to my computer, you got me. It is a crap loss leader from an unknown manufacturer. Your standard run of the mill crap with QHD touchscreen, ultralight, latest generation skylake CPU that you can get in a back alley.
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Your friend's brand new MBA is interesting why?
Because he bought the latest refresh model, released less a month or two ago.
Either he bought his just released MacBook Air over a year ago, or you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Or you are just an average troll. Yeah, that's the most likely one.
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But Apple doesn't undercut its competitors. The only time I've ever seen them "cheaper" than anyone else is if they're first to market with some chipset and there is nothing else to make a direct comparison with. Once there is a competitor they are cheaper and usually by a substantial margin.
Just imagine they did that and a competitor came out that cost more. They'd have to put their prices up to compensate.
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The only "experience" is the consumer's self-delusion that the added price amounts to anything. It doesn't.
And, like most 'muricans, you have no idea about the difference between "price" and "value".
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Ah an apple head. No actually apple doesn't understand retail. Nor do they understand tech and without Jobs they don't understand business and lack an ability to truly innovate. The one and only thing apple has been competent at with or without jobs is marketing.
And, as CEO of your Mom's basement, of course you know better than all...
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I have bought those and it's a hit'n miss affair. Some cables work, some don't.
So like USB3 cables you buy at Amazon.
Margins on software (Score:3)
And you think computers don't have tight margins?
Hardware makers have tight margins. Software companies not so much. See below.
Apple's ludicrous mark-ups? Somehow Apple makes ludicrous markups while managing in most cases to undercut the prices of their competitors.
Apple makes their big margins because Apple is a software company [youtube.com] at its core. People pay those big markups for the software which just happens to come with a nice piece of hardware. If you put Windows on a Mac and sold it as a regular PC, Apple's margins would evaporate faster than you could say "shareholder lawsuit". The hardware is nothing particularly special - the motherboard is basically the same as any comparably equip
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Yeah, that tired old story. Apple makes hardware. That makes them a Hardware Company. They get their margin or they don't make+sell it.
Apple also makes software. That makes them a Software Company? But I haven't paid for a iOS or Mac OS upgrade in years. Almost without exception the software on my phone and Mac is free: Xcode, GarageBand, iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, Maps, etc. There doesn't seem like a very high margin there. Based on that I'd say it's clear that they're not doing software for the margin.
Apple do
Apple is a software company (Score:2)
Apple also makes software. That makes them a Software Company? But I haven't paid for a iOS or Mac OS upgrade in years.
What's your point? I haven't paid for a Windows upgrade in the last 15 years either but that doesn't mean Microsoft isn't a software company. Don't take my word for it, Steve Jobs himself said it [youtube.com] and he's right. Apple completely outsourced their hardware manufacturing. All of it aside from some industrial design. You don't outsource the stuff that makes you money. They did not outsource ANY of their software. People pay a premium for Apple software, ergo they are a software company. The hardware is
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These days I'd say that Apple is clearly a Whatever Tim Cook Wants To Do Company. And obviously they're pretty good at it, and profitable too.
And don't you forget it!
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Apple makes their big margins because Apple is a software company [youtube.com] at its core
You apparently haven't been paying attention for the past 40 years. Apple considers itself, first and foremost, to be a hardware company.
Always has; always will.
Steve Jobs (Score:2)
You apparently haven't been paying attention for the past 40 years. Apple considers itself, first and foremost, to be a hardware company.
You seem to have overlooked the video of Steve Jobs himself stating point blank that "Apple is a software company" and that the hardware is just the "pretty box" to enable them to sell their software. I'll take his opinion on the matter over yours.
Show me the business model (Score:2)
What if Apple doesn't sell these cars? What if they lease them, or even more likely, you sign up for an Apple Car Subscription Service? iJaunter.
What if they do? That's an easily replicated business model and why should anyone buy or lease a car just because it has an Apple logo on the side? What value is Apple providing here? People buy their current products because they like the software better than the alternatives and the hardware is (usually) first rate. They provide value to people. What could Apple provide in a car rental that GM couldn't easily replicate.
There are other opportunities here- Taxis, Car Rentals, Events, Vacation Travel... all those times that you need a Car, without the bother of owning one. And there are all the Side Services; Apple Pay is already in place for the various daily, weekly, monthly or yearly Payments, but there is also Insurance, Music and other media to consume on the road, and well, Apple could lose money on the Manufacture of every car initially, and still make tons of money down the road.
You've described business concepts, not business plans and certainly not a path to
Uber + Google + Tesla (Score:2)
I doubt they are just making a consumer electric car. The main bottleneck to the widespread adoption of these now is ultimately batteries, and Apple isn't a battery company, nor does it seem they are positioning themselves ahead of Tesla on mass producing batteries. In terms of vehicles, while a 1950s modernist designed Ive car in one color might appeal to some people, there are plenty of great car designs around that are pretty functional and nice to look at. Believing they can beat the market on that woul
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I don't know, look at Tesla. They don't have the margins because their costs are high, but people are willing to pay the prices they are asking. My guess is that Apple will be a luxury brand competing with Mercedes and Lexus. A lot of people buying those cars get them on short leases, a couple of years say, so it fits their "buy a new one every 24 months" model well.
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I generally have always thought Apple had a good vision on the future. But since the death of Steve Jobs Apple has taken some rather empty dead end roads. The creation of a Apple designed electric vehicle is another road less traveled in my opinion. I cannot imagine Apple creating an affordable car for the masses like for example the iPhone. For one, they have absolutely no current support structure for any vehicle and just because your a technology company. Doesn't mean you know how to do vehicles. Even Tesla is finding out how difficult it is to make cars, and sell, service, and deal with liability and safety. Apple most likely will end up way late to the game in EV vehicles, and it appears to be a distraction rather than a serious attempt at entering a EV market that is already shrinking. Some big auto makers have already reduced development in EVs or have decided to market them in only certain markets. Apple may simply be trying to convince everyone it can do something more than fancy tech devices.
No doubt they'll end up realising they've bitten off more than they can chew and end up just licensing designs so EV's can demand a premium by having an apple logo on it, despite the door handles being under the car or some shit.
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I generally have always thought Apple had a good vision on the future. But since the death of Steve Jobs Apple has taken some rather empty dead end roads. The creation of a Apple designed electric vehicle is another road less traveled in my opinion.
You do realize, of course, that the car was a "Jobs" idea, right?
Apple most likely will end up way late to the game in EV vehicles, and it appears to be a distraction rather than a serious attempt at entering a EV market that is already shrinking.
And when gas prices make their inevitable climb back upward, the EV market will increase again. And by that time, Apple will be ready and waiting...
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...well, they had no experience or support structure in phones, either, yet managed to get the carriers dancing to their tune.
Also, their competitors here are going to be Tesla and (maybe) Google rather than GM or BMW.
Some big auto makers have already reduced development in EVs or have decided to market them in only certain markets.
Bit like Xerox in the 1980s not really trying to push GUIs, local area networking and desktop publishing because it didn't fit their ossified business model, then?
Even Tesla is finding out how difficult it is to make cars, and sell, service, and deal with liability and safety.
Odds are, Apple will have the car rolling off existing production lines in China, avoiding Tesla's production woes, and they have
Auto industry != tech industry (Score:5, Insightful)
Odds are, Apple will have the car rolling off existing production lines in China, avoiding Tesla's production woes, and they have plenty of cash to set up infrastructure - you'd probably use existing independent repair shops for your service network.
I'm in the auto industry and I've done the sort of sourcing you are talking about. The fact is that there simply isn't enough margin in a car to outsource production like that, especially in light of the costs involved. Tooling for a piece of consumer electronics you can sell by the millions for a fat markup is NOTHING like tooling for a car which you will sell by the thousands for a thin markup. Unless you are competing in tiny volume production you simply have to build it yourself to make any money. Apple has no particular cost advantage nor any particular technology advantage when it comes to building a car and they won't be able to charge huge markups - not on a product costing tens of thousands of dollars. If they want to sell it and make a profit they'll have to watch costs very carefully. They are simply not going to be able to sell a vehicle and get 25% net margins like they are used to. The financing alone prevents it.
Tesla is actually doing EXACTLY the right thing by going vertical with their production. Every time you outsource something to another company you are hemorrhaging margin and potentially quality. Tesla would be bankrupt already if they tried to outsource production the way Apple does it's hardware. There is a reason that companies like GM and Ford and Tesla insist on doing final assembly themselves in most cases. I do contract manufacturing for a living and I can assure you that Apple couldn't afford to outsource to anywhere near the degree they do in their current products without giving away the bits that actually make money for them.
Sure, the Apple Car is high risk, but the EV is in just the sort of state that the PC, MP3 player and Phone markets were in when Apple stepped in.
That is a wildly unsupported assertion. Not saying you are necessarily wrong but proving it won't happen for quite some time. People in tech tend to assume every market works like tech and it doesn't. The auto industry could not be more different. While I think there is a ton of room for innovation (Tesla is proving that) it isn't going to be easy to turn that industry on its head by just building another type of car.
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People in tech tend to assume every market works like tech and it doesn't. The auto industry could not be more different. While I think there is a ton of room for innovation (Tesla is proving that) it isn't going to be easy to turn that industry on its head by just building another type of car.
Tesla has not yet shown that they can make money in the car market despite having a dominant position in the high end EV market. They are still pumping huge amounts of cash into the operation. I don't see how Apple can do any better, and they have a lot more at risk. Producing an affordable mass market vehicle and keeping it sustainable with constant model revisions is a daunting task vs the big car companies that certainly will figure out how to make money in that space.
Tough to suceed in the car business (Score:3)
Tesla has not yet shown that they can make money in the car market despite having a dominant position in the high end EV market. They are still pumping huge amounts of cash into the operation. I don't see how Apple can do any better, and they have a lot more at risk.
Exactly. The folks at Tesla are very smart and the business was built from the ground up to be a car company and they still are having a rough go of it financially. Just because Apple was good at consumer electronics is no reason to believe they would be good at making cars. That's like someone who runs a very successful restaurant and is good at it and making lots of money trying to get into the farming business. Maybe they can do it but there is no particular reason to assume they would succeed even i
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You talk about farming like it's difficult. It's really not. You take some baby things and stick them into the ground. Water, sun, and when they aren't babies any more you hack some hunks off them and sell those bits to someone. I'm in the process of combining this with my innovative child care business, because when you boil both of them down to the essentials, they're pretty much the same business.
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Tesla is actually doing EXACTLY the right thing by going vertical with their production. Every time you outsource something to another company you are hemorrhaging margin and potentially quality.
But you are also saving a buttload of money on capital equipment costs. And if Apple assembles in China, they also save a metric buttload of money in not having to use outrageously-priced Union labor.
And as far as build-quality, I think that Apple's products have a proven track record of keeping their Contract Manufacturers in-line, quality (and cost) wise.
While I think there is a ton of room for innovation (Tesla is proving that) it isn't going to be easy to turn that industry on its head by just building another type of car.
Not as long as they are being held back by protectionist lobbying organizations, that are keeping Tesla from daring to develop an alternative business
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You aren't necessarily saving much in capital equipment costs since you now need to pay for all the tooling for the car you plan to build. Also, there are problems with manufacturing cars in China, especially with quality. A friend of mine who worked in the industry (including at Tesla for a while) said that the problem with having parts made in China was you could never be sure of the quality of the materials used, especially steel. Chinese manufacturing is great if you throw a lot of labor at the problem.
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Some big auto makers have already reduced development in EVs or have decided to market them in only certain markets
Like who? As far as I can tell most manufacturers are ramping up, in some cases massively so [bbc.com]. There appears to be a general recognition across manufacturers that the electric market is taking off fast and they all have plans to capitalize on it. I'm sure some will stumble on the way and some markets will be more receptive than others but that's the way of things.
As for Apple, I see no time now or in the future where they will make their own cars. They don't even make their own electronic devices and manuf
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It could depend.
The Apple Car invention may not lead to Apple Cars driving the road. However the software learned from making it may be implemented into other standard vehicles beyond the standard entertainment systems.
Lets just say While the Apple Car is a flop but everyone loves the interface on the climate control. Apple could sell this to say Ford or Honda in their cars brand.
Or perhaps the software in the Apple car is far more efficient in using energy so the technology can be sold to Tesla or Toyota
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Our Smart Phone looks much like the old Palm Pilot which came from Apples Failure of the newton.
...as did most of Palm's original Engineering Team.
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Affordable, like the iPhone? You're kidding, right?
Without carrier-subsidized cell phone payment plans, "the masses" would not be using iPhones as much as they are right now and most people would be using low-end Android phones instead.
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Apple had vision in the 80s. They've followed the path of Microsoft since and just ripped off things from others and touted them as their own.
Just keep those blinders on. I'm sure they must offer some comfort in this crazy world.
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Apple had vision in the 80s. They've followed the path of Microsoft since and just ripped off things from others and touted them as their own.
Of course. They just rip off things. Regardless of their individual success as products, here is a list to ponder:
///: Not Ripped Off.
Apple
AppleSOS: Not Ripped Off.
ProDOS: Not Ripped Off.
AppleWorks: Not Ripped Off.
Apple IIgs: Not Ripped Off.
GS/OS: Not Ripped Off.
Lisa: Not Ripped Off.
Twiggy Floppy Drive: Not Ripped Off.
LisaOS: Not Ripped Off.
LisaProject (became MacProject) : Not Ripped Off.
7/7 Office Suite: Not Ripped Off.
All Macs, in whatever forms: Not Ripped Off.
MacOS (Classic): Not Ripped