Army Special Operations Command Ditching Android For iPhone, Says Report (gizmodo.com) 254
The United States Army's Special Operations Command is ditching its Android phones for the "faster" iPhone, according to a report. The source cited in the story says that Android phones were freezing unexpectedly, which was one of the reasons they decided to give the iPhone 6s a spin. Gizmodo adds: The smartphones allow members of the Special Operations Command to access rich information about the battlefield. There's also quickly accessible information, like a weapons and ammunitions guide. Other apps can help with high altitude jumps; another can detect radiation. While DARPA helped develop the program on Android due to the operating system's open platform, Apple's hardware is apparently superior enough to warrant the switch.
My first first? (Score:2, Insightful)
But seriously? iPhone superior to Android? Were they buying budget phones?
Re:My first first? (Score:5, Interesting)
The real difference is in the software. It's in the operating system, as well as how it handles applications, and which applications are available for the device. It's also potentially in the enterprise management of such devices, but I don't see that mentioned here either. All of those are software differences primarily.
Re:My first first? (Score:5, Interesting)
In my experience decisions like this are typically made because somebody high up likes their iPhone and doesn't want to have to learn how to use an Android phone.
Sounds overly simplistic, but I've seen it happen too many times.
Nope, "operators" usually pick equipment (Score:3, Informative)
In my experience decisions like this are typically made because somebody high up likes their iPhone and doesn't want to have to learn how to use an Android phone. Sounds overly simplistic, but I've seen it happen too many times.
Bad guess. Note "United States Army's Special Operations Command", they get a lot of say in what equipment they use. A friend's brother made some unique camera equipment. SOC guys thought it interesting. The only people this small company every saw during evaluation were "operators". The "suits" did not get involved until the "operators" said "we want this". What you say may be true for normal military procurement, but its very different for SOC.
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Still a dumb decisions when they could have simply http://www.ubuntu.com/phone [ubuntu.com]. If a phone can run Android it can run Linux, for what should be obvious reasons and hence a custom rolled solution makes more sense (a tweaked protocol offset system, so only apps allowed to run can run or be installed succesfully). Basically when supply numbers are high enough customer demands can be pushed quite economically, to produce a range of products that provide optimum solutions. So physically durable phones running t
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The above "experience" is dumb and probably not experience at all.
Management types decide based on what meets the specs, how expensive the solution is overall, and how easy it is to manage at scale. They may not understand much, but they understand TCO.
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After a bit more time in the workplace you will meet other managers that do not fit your ideal.
Re:My first first? (Score:4)
GP is right, All the vendors market to the guys wearing stars. If the general likes it then that's what we buy, doesn't matter what the grunts think.
Just look at NMCI, the admirals will tell you it is a huge win, just don't tell that to the 0-4 trying to use it to get his work done.
Guys wearing starts don't always make the call (Score:5, Interesting)
GP is right, All the vendors market to the guys wearing stars. If the general likes it then that's what we buy, doesn't matter what the grunts think.
Note "United States Army's Special Operations Command", that works entirely different. A friend's brother made some specialized photographic gear for the civilian market. SOC guys heard about it, visited, asked to evaluate it. They made some suggestions. These were incorporated into the design. They then told the guys wearing stars "we want this" and then "suits" got involved for the paperwork. Selection, evaluation and decision for this gear was made by "operators".
Widely known that SOC has latitude in gear (Score:4, Funny)
Really - three nearly identical posts ...
Apologies for communicating with three different individuals.
... and in all three, you seem almost desperate to have someone acknowledge that you are an insider with super-meaningful knowledge.
I am not an insider, nor have any special knowledge. It is quite well known that SOC has a wide latitude in gear selection. I merely saw a single instance of this well known practice. Apologies if your anti-military industrial complex meme or whatever failed. Perhaps there will be an F-35 post for you soon and you can find some joy.
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When lives are on the line? Fuck off with that bullshit.
I served in the military, and I can assure you that when "lives are on the line", decision making is no less dysfunctional. If anything, it is even worse, as officers who have spent years in a "zero defect" peacetime environment, are suddenly faced with potentially career ending decisions. So they delay, and push the responsibility up the chain of command, to someone who has less information and likely less relevant expertise.
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Or somebody realized that Android is not very secure. What is it now, 99+% of all malware targets Android? How many ways can an Android phone be infected? Perhaps thousands...
iPhone, Windows phone, Blackberry, etc. ALL ARE SAFER than Android. Protect yourself from hacking, protect your contacts (friends and family) from getting their information compromised from your address book. Friends tell friends to use ANYTHING but Android.
Example 1: https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Example 2:
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
Actually you're full of shit.
Source: Actual CVE details.
IOS Currently has 900 unique CVEs released:
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/product_id-15556/Apple-Iphone-Os.html
Android has 430 unique CVEs release:
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product_id-19997/Google-Android.html
But hey, don't let facts get in your way.
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Android has 430 unique CVEs release: https://www.cvedetails.com/vul... [cvedetails.com]
But doesn't that list usually only contain vulnerabilities that have been ADDRESSED?
Re:My first first? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, you're full of shit too.
Source: your actual links.
Android has 309 defects with a CVSS score of 7 or higher (on a scale of 1-10). 90 of them with a CVSS score of 10.
IOS has 254 defects with a CVSS score of 7 or higher. 21 of them with a CVSS score of 10.
But hey, don't let facts get in your way.
Re:My first first? (Score:5, Insightful)
The real difference is in the software.
Nope, the real difference is in the ability and willingness to navigate the military procurement process.
Re:My first first? (Score:5, Interesting)
The real difference is in the software.
Nope, the real difference is in the ability and willingness to navigate the military procurement process.
I thought about that, thinking maybe the only Android OEMs who were willing to do that were obscure ones making crappy devices, but then I remembered that Samsung has actually gone to the effort of getting at least one of their devices certified for classified data. If they're doing that, they can certainly navigate the procurement process. And the Samsung flagships are very good devices, clearly competitive with the iPhone.
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And the Samsung flagships are very good devices, clearly competitive with the iPhone.
But then they still run Android; and therein lies the rub.
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Insinuating people trained to kill have more valuable insight in software/hardware cell phone engineering and that all uses of devices for spec ops purposes would be immediately translatable for civillian purposes.
Not everyone in the military has a job that includes killing, dumbass.
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Don't forget the difference in application developers. It's entirely possible that the custom stuff was done by a mobile developer with less than adequate Android experience (possibly none, the way government procurement tends to work). At least, the description of the problems sounds as much like "app" as "operating system" to me.
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We develop the same apps on both iOS and Android. Entirely separate development, no shared code, but based on the same designs. The Android versions take 50% longer to develop and are of lower quality. (The Android team are always complaining about video bugs. And they never seem able to deliver smooth animation. And they are just generally more sluggish.) I don't believe they are worse programmers than the iOS team. I just believe the development environment and the platform are worse. Though I have been t
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I prefer Android myself, but... yeah... I've never seen garbage collection work well on any language, platform or device; it always seems to pause the machine when you need to interact with it.
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I wonder if Apple has ever ported iOS to any of the top of the line Android hardware platforms to make comparisons.
It's probably a bunch of work just to get drivers working and even more for necessary optimizations, with a net result of "just about the same" but it would be interesting to see what would happen.
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They may have. It isn't unheard of. In case of hardware shortage or a deal going south, they can quickly revamp and rebrand to another provider.
That is why they went from the PowerPC to Intel. IBM just couldn't make their chips competitive so Apple dropped them when they realized that it wasn't worth it.
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I would think (naively, I'm sure) that it would be simpler and more easy to get an apples-apples comparison with a PC-type platform than a smartphone platform.
Generally speaking, getting your PPC OS running on an x86 reference box would be an easier port, since the hardware documentation and drivers are more easily available.
Using a competitor's smartphone platform, though, would be much more difficult since the hardware is more likely to be highly customized and sort of proprietary, making creating drivers
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I tried to get some Cell stuff at one point via a ridiculously long process before I even got a price. IBM effectively priced themselves out of the market with that unless you just had to have a Cell CPU instead of about six of something else for the same price.
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I wonder if Apple has ever ported iOS to any of the top of the line Android hardware platforms to make comparisons.
It's probably a bunch of work just to get drivers working and even more for necessary optimizations, with a net result of "just about the same" but it would be interesting to see what would happen.
My feeling is that it would be "about the same" as long as we stay in the same ballpark, hardware-wise. But that isn't what is important, because the military can't (and wouldn't) approve a clusterfuck like that, anyway.
Re:My first first? (Score:5, Informative)
It does seem like we're missing part of the story here. The hardware isn't the core difference between Apple and the various Android phones, most of them are as capable as any other if you picked up a reasonably recent model. If anything, there are Android phones sporting more memory or faster processors.
Except that that's not completely true, and even in the true half, there are mitigating factors.
The iPhone's CPU is typically much faster than Android processors where it matters, but slower where it doesn't. That is, the iPhone's CPU is extremely fast at single threaded or dual threaded operation, but Android devices win multithreaded benchmarks. As most mobile workloads are not very parallel, the iPhone's CPU typically is a much better bet.
In terms of memory, while you're correct that most Android devices ship with more, they also need significantly more. 90% of processes on Android use garbage collection. It's been demonstrated over and over that garbage collection only works well when there's an excess of memory hanging about. A garbage collector is a fine thing when it has a spare gig or two to fill with things it might collect in the future; but it's a terrible idea on a memory constrained example. This is why when you look at application launch tests between top end Android and iOS devices, typically the iOS device will have more processes still in memory on the second loop through the apps, despite having half the amount of RAM.
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the iPhone's CPU is extremely fast at single threaded or dual threaded operation, but Android devices win multithreaded benchmarks.
I wonder if that is because iOS is slower at thread management than Android? Long ago, I used to see postings about how much faster Linux was at thread creation/destruction than OS X. But that was a long time ago, and I wonder if it is still the case.
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If anything, there are Android phones sporting more memory or faster processors.
More memory than a 128 GB iPhone? And have you seen any benchmarks on the iPhone vs. pretty much any Android phone?
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Memory and Storage are different things. Welcome to Computer Sci 101.
No fooling. And how is that even germane, since the term used was MEMORY (which I took to mean Flash MEMORY). If they meant RAM, say RAM, night a nebulous term like "memory".
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the original Galaxy Note https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker... [kinja-img.com] running their own fork of AOSP (or perhaps cyanogenmod) vs apple's latest and greatest with manufacturer tested OS.
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... Their experience showed that Android is glitchy, and the truth is that iOS is more stable than Android, hence motivating the switch. New Android hardware may not fix any stability issues in this case.
FTFY.
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Derp.
Begone foul scum supporting closed source proprietary crap.
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Derp.
Begone foul scum supporting closed source proprietary crap.
Open Source is great; but it is NOT the be-all, end-all, most-importantest-thing for good software design.
In fact, it has a TERRIBLE track-record in that regard.
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What is the latest Android phone and what is GoogleOS? There are many phones out there, many of which run a version of Android. Your statement is like saying that a mac with OSX is better than the latest PC with an OS on it. Meaningless and simple.
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But seriously? iPhone superior to Android? Were they buying budget phones?
Never used an iPhone, eh?
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Re:My first first? (Score:5, Interesting)
The iPhone could be in fact superior to the task that the Army needed the device to do.
Don't go all Android Fanboi! Android does many things better than iOS... However iOS does some things better.
When designing a software there are tradeoffs that are needed. Sometimes those tradeoffs may enhance more people than they hinder, however the minority may find that missing ability to greatly improve that function they prefer.
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But seriously? iPhone superior to Android?
Yes, seriously. Do you want the list in Alphabetical Order, or in Order of Importance?
Remember, we're talking about the Military here. They could give a rats ass about your precious "Sideloading", and "Cyanogenmod" crapola. They are interested in just a couple of things: Reliability and Responsiveness of hardware and software, and Security of the OS.
Overall, iPhone "wins" on both counts, sorry.
Oh, and not having Google datamining every single thing is probably a consideration in a Military application
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Order of importance, please. And the things you listed are just not true in any way. Oh wait, I just noticed your username. Never mind, pointless conversation. Try not to choke on Apple's cock and remember to pay attention to the balls.
Interesting, because, reading down through the comments, it seems like the people who have tried both [slashdot.org] (particularly with the Military Software Stack, KNOX [slashdot.org]), even those who profess to hate iOS/Apple, choose iPhone hands-down.
But even those who have just used both [slashdot.org], most prefer iOS [slashdot.org] over Android [slashdot.org].
So, suck on that.
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You are seriously using anecdotal evidence to say that "most" prefer iOS?
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Smartphone market share studies are not political polls. And no, your graph is not better than an average political poll because again, there is a huge selection bias.
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The glass and software are made in U.S.A. at least. Source: http://www.macworld.co.uk/feat... [macworld.co.uk]
The second one being the important one.
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Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Other apps can help with high altitude jumps;
So are they supposed to just whip out an iPhone in the middle of a HALO jump to figure out when they need to open their chute?
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So are they supposed to just whip out an iPhone in the middle of a HALO jump to figure out when they need to open their chute?
<sarcasm>That's what I always do, don't you?</sarcasm>
Maybe it communicates with a headset via Bluetooth to tell them when to deploy their chute. At least that's how I'd set it up.
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Just make sure there's no DST change around the time of the jump.
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Yeah, you just have to make sure the request sends before you hit the gr
-session terminated
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plenty of time to whip out a iPhone and get anything from GPS, current LZ/target data, keep in contact with your team, etc.
Instagram and Twitter?
check it out! me and my crew sailing over the dmz at 20k! w00t!
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Hence the importance of responsive applications.
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Soldier: Siri! Open my chute!
Siri: The men's room in the gay bar 2 kilometer SE on Rt 3 is favorably reviewed on Facebook for its cottaging
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Soldier: Siri! Open my chute!
Siri: I'm sorry, the app "My Chute" is not installed.
Soldier: Fffffffuuuuuuu
*SPLAT*
Now THAT's how you do a Siri joke! Perfect!
Still made in China (Score:2, Interesting)
*doh
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*doh
But at least the Company is based in the U.S.A.
That's nonsense (Score:2, Insightful)
If they're switching, it's because somebody's getting a kickback.
Re:That's nonsense (Score:5, Interesting)
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Any comment on 'an Android phone' is invalid unless you specify which, because there's no such thing as a generic Android phone when you get them in a million configurations and price points. What is the phone model? That reveals the age of the handset as well as the manufacturer.
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OK (Score:3)
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Just tell them that rare Pokemon have been spotted near an ISIS encampment.
Re:OK (Score:5, Informative)
Now the army spec ops guys just need to get their apps approved through the app store.
The DoD already pays for an enterprise cert for iOS. They have been running their own server w/ app install capabilities for the last ~6 years or so, even when they were just tinkering with iOS deployments.
Apple apps approved? (Score:2)
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what about an custom rom and being fully unlocked with no locking the Apple SIM card
Re:Apple apps approved? (Score:5, Informative)
Apple has had an enterprise mechanism for installing custom apps for years now, completely bypassing the store. This has been the case almost as long as there's been an a store.
With the right management software, the apps can even be loaded and updated automatically. All without Apple ever seeing them.
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Can the Army install custom apps for themselves or they need to be approved first for Apple?
ANYone can install custom iOS apps for themselves. You don't even have to be a Registered Developer.
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Yeah, but they only work for a month or so from what I remember... You need enterprise dev license to install custom signed apps permanently.
I think they actually changed that in iOS 9.
A natural consequence (Score:3, Funny)
A natural consequence of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
Weapons and ammunitions guides? (Score:2)
Isn't on the battlefield a little late to be reading weapons and ammunition guides?
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Isn't on the battlefield a little late to be reading weapons and ammunition guides?
These types are usually trained on foreign service weapons in their area of operation. They may be using scavenged weapons and may need to look up a more complicated task that they have not performed on a regular enough basis to have memorized. Same with ammo.
APPS ?! They use APPS ?! (Score:2)
Seriously, they don't have specialized equipment for high altitude jumps or to detect radiation?!
I can only hope that for a special forces tactical assault kit they are getting some custom designed ones and not off-the-shelf phones.
The article links to another article at dodbuzz [dodbuzz.com] that gives some better info.
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I assume the phones can do many things, and they are only the end user device. Why not get off the shelf stuff which is reasonably cheap and well understood?
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this couldn't possibly be to call them when they're not on base?
Vanilla? (Score:3)
It's not the hardware or the OS that's the issue (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's not the hardware or the OS that's the issu (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep - another S6A Knox user here.
If i lose data connection for a bit, i feel-it as the phone heats up like mad while sucking the battery dry.
If i lose the data connection for too long, it will self-format (and destroy all the data/photos/application settings on the phone)
And when the data connection is working fine, the fscking antivirus randomly kicks in and slows everything down. I had battery life varying from 3 full days to 3 hours.
There's no way to get consistent functionality from a secured Samsung phone. While on iPhone everything works as it should.
Linux kernel on Android vs MACH Darwin microkernel on iOS.
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And the funny thing is, two years after its release, the BlackBerry Passport is still the smartest, best engineered handheld computing device on the market, bar none. Even so-called techies on Slashdot don't know jack if it's not advertised on teevee.
Even still, nobody wants it.
Stick a fork in Blackberry; they're done!
It's hip to be square (Score:2)
I know that it's nowhere\
But there is no denying that
3 Year newer phone (Score:2)
Wiki has the Nett Warrior system using a samsung galaxy note II the replacement is 2015 thats a huge difference in tech what 2 whole android OS revisions etc. They also have them using a NSA approved firmware who who knows what issues.
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Does NSA/DARPA/GAO really believe iPhone will do any better?
Why yes, yes it does.
Kinda the whole point, isn't it?
Consumer grade phones? (Score:2)
Re:Isn't there something in Apple's EULA about thi (Score:5, Funny)
You may not use this device to kill people?
then how did pokemon go get approved?
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Status: BRN
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we can also sent the info to the highest bidder and you can't install your own custom rom's.
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I kinda bet Apple will see $$$$ signs much more than they will see peace signs....
A DoD contract would mean a LOT of money to Apple, and after all, they are a company who's business is to make money.
Re:Until apple gets all peace warrior (Score:5, Insightful)
> A DoD contract would mean a LOT of money to Apple,
Meh. They could sell what, a couple thousand phones to SOC? 10k maybe? That's what, an hour of retail?
This isn't the 50's.
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Usually there's a lot more to it than that. There's usually support contracts, etc.
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If this goes DoD wide as the standard, well, they employ approx 3.1 Million people [wikipedia.org] which I would think would be a significant amount of phones to be sold to the govt. As another person mentioned to you on this thread, that often also includes support ,etc which proves to be even more lucrative.
If you can get a DoD contract, it can often prove to be VERY valuable. Ask Lockheed Martin
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If you can get a DoD contract, it can often prove to be VERY valuable
Yes but the problem is that by the time a DoD contract goes through all the approvals, etc, it will specify exactly that iPhone6, 16GB models, are to be supplied and the year will be 2021.
Re:Until apple gets all peace warrior (Score:5, Informative)
I can totally see Apple making a big stink about using Apple products in wartime missions.
"This insurgent extraction brought to you by iTunes, the only way to jam out with your rifle out! And Apple Maps, accurate to the last drop!"
You don't remember all the free press Apple got early in the Iraq War when a bullet went through a soldier's vest and stopped in his 1st gen iPod?
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Certainly my Moto X has troubles transitioning from wifi to 4g, even to the point of often killing a phone call in progress.
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Honestly, is there really THAT much difference in build quality, durability, or reliability between any of the flagship phones, regardless of OS?
I'm actually kind of surprised that they're using any type of modern COTS phone. All the things that makes one great for consumer use, lighter, thinner, giant screens I'd think would be to a detriment in the field. I want som
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I think you are right in that the hardware isn't *that* different. The real difference is in the operating environment and Apple's being closed makes no difference to an institution that doesn't even want users to be mucking about with random apps downloaded from dodgy sites.
As to the durability, you get that by using a case. An otterbox or something similar is going to be about as good as it gets.
As to "literally bulletproof" that makes no sense. The term "bulletproof" is commonplace and its meaning is "we
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I'm presuming the military is intelligent to lock down the device to restrict what gets installed on it. At that point, it doesn't really matter if it's open or closed.
I wasn't literally meaning bulletproof and able to drive a tank over it. I was meaning I want something more durable then the latest u
Re:*Urban* Army Special Ops (Score:4, Funny)
Thats a TACTICAL turtleneck you insensitive clod!
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geiger counters are for prospecting uranium or finding contaminated dust on yourself. what you want is a survey meter. Your cell phone will fail at about 5 thousand rad, your body at about a fifth of that in chronic dose.
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iPhones are great. It's the iTunes ecosystem that turns me completely off. How can they make such a great device with a superb OS only to pair it up with desktop software that is so totally awful.
There is no "iTunes" on iOS. There is "Music", which is not the same App in any way.
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I think you didn't read the "desktop software that is so totally awful" part.
I read it; but didn't think it applied; since the REST of us were talking about MOBILE stuff.