Big Tech Squashes New York's 'Right To Repair' Bill (huffingtonpost.com) 224
Damon Beres, writing for The Huffington Post: Major tech companies like Apple have trampled legislation that would have helped consumers and small businesses fix broken gadgets. New York state legislation that would have required manufacturers to provide information about how to repair devices like the iPhone failed to get a vote, ending any chance of passage this legislative session. Similar measures have met the same fate in Minnesota, Nebraska, Massachusetts and, yes, even previously in New York. Essentially, politicians never get to vote on so-called right to repair legislation because groups petitioning on behalf of the electronics industry gum up the proceedings. "We were disappointed that it wasn't brought to the floor, but we were successful in bringing more attention to the issue," New York state Sen. Phil Boyle (R), a sponsor of the bill, told The Huffington Post.
Gum up the proceedings? (Score:5, Insightful)
Leave it to the Huffington Post to somehow blame lobbyists without blaming the people they lobby. The only way they "gum up the proceedings" is by their influence with the leaders in the legislature, who are the ones who actually control the proceedings.
A bill doesn't get a vote in the legislature because not enough of the right members wanted to vote on it (for a variety of reasons, I'm sure). You can't blame that strictly on the lobbyists without removing the responsibility of the members of the NY State Assembly and Senate for what they decide to vote and pass.
It is clear. Just look. (Score:5, Insightful)
Our "democratic" process is just an elaborate dog-and-pony show designed to make us feel like we have a voice in governance, when really the only voices that matter are those of the super-rich.
People get really defensive when I point this out, because they like believing that we live in a democracy (ahem, constitutional republic), and that our representatives represent us, and that our votes matter.
Wanting something to be true does not make it true.
Your role in politics (Score:5, Interesting)
Our "democratic" process is just an elaborate dog-and-pony show designed to make us feel like we have a voice in governance, when really the only voices that matter are those of the super-rich.
People get really defensive when I point this out, because they like believing that we live in a democracy (ahem, constitutional republic), and that our representatives represent us, and that our votes matter.
Wanting something to be true does not make it true.
Close, but not quite.
The super-rich voices matter a lot, but (1) there are some issues where even an individual letter or call can tip the scale--not many, but they exist. (2) Congresspeople need so much money every day that most of the time, your money doesn't buy you a voice on an issue. Also, (3) there are LOTS of ways to be listened to--but they involve using leverage. You don't approach your person individually most of the time--you do it by supporting an organization that lobbies or otherwise works on issues you care about, whether they do that through legislators or through direct service or through the courts.
The ACLU does an amazing amount of work fighting for individual liberties, for example, filing briefs in lots of important cases throughout the country defending your rights. But whether you do it through the ACLU or the EFF or the AFL-CIO or even the NRA, unless you are amazing at influencing public discourse then you get YOUR influence by supporting the specific groups you mostly agree with. What the super-rich buy with money, you buy with a voting block and a block of voices.
(Also, by acting to influence your local and state reps.)
Check your facts. (Score:5, Informative)
Here are some facts [washingtontimes.com] about "the last say [coming] from the ballot box".
That is why I said "it is clear, just look." The facts are as plain as day and in the public view. The super-rich get their measures passed, regardless of how the majority feel about them.
There are actually quite a few layers of separation between votes and federal law. And they are all (or at least, most) a matter of public knowledge. You just haven't done your homework.
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"Facts" and the Washington Times are two unrelated concepts. The Washington Times is owned and operated by the Unification Church, aka the "Moonies."
Re:Check your facts. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Check your facts. (Score:5, Interesting)
There are actually quite a few layers of separation between votes and federal law.
Yes, by design. That's the whole point. Otherwise it's mob rule. Look at what direct democracy (by way of ballot initiatives) has done to California. The people who wrote the constitution were very smart to put in the checks and balances we have, and to structure the legislative branch as the bicameral institution that it is. If you don't like that a large organization is able to sit across the table from a legislator and persuade them that a bill is a bad idea, do what everyone else does: gather your like-minded friends and send someone of your OWN to meet with the same legislator and persuade her that she's misunderstanding the pros and cons of some piece of pending legislation. Or are you against the constitution's protections for your right (and everyone else's) to assemble as they see fit and express themselves as they see fit (say, through the offices of a lobbyist who know which people to talk to about which topic)? You can't have it both ways.
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do what everyone else does: gather your like-minded friends and send someone of your OWN to meet with the same legislator and persuade her that she's misunderstanding the pros and cons of some piece of pending legislation.
How do you propose that they gather sufficient funding to be persuasive without corporate backing?
Re:Check your facts. (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you propose that they gather sufficient funding to be persuasive without corporate backing?
Do you think that the NAACP or the AARP or the Sierra Club or PETA etc are all funded by corporate backing? If you can't persuade enough people to agree with you (if a loopy aging hippy socialist from New England can raise millions and millions of dollars from starry-eyed individual donors, why is it you think this isn't possible?), you could always simply persuade a wealthy person (say, an Al Gore, or a George Soros) to throw - as they already do - millions of dollars into things they think should be more visible. This is happening right in front of your eyes every day - why does it seem unlikely to you?
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So then by definition the only voices that get heard are those of powerful special interests, and the only chance to get a balanced view on a bill is if that bill interests either a corporation or a special interest group. Well at least all the common bills then get a good discussion, but it's a shame for all those small special bills where it isn't worth building up an entire consortium to argue for its merits.
Dollars talk. Don't pretend that what we have is a balanced system.
Re:Check your facts. (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you consider, for example, the millions of people backing Bernie Sanders to be a "powerful special interest group?" No? Why not? They gotten together, amassed a very large pile of money dedicated to forwarding a specific agenda, and they've got a person tapped to push that agenda on their behalf.
it's a shame for all those small special bills where it isn't worth building up an entire consortium to argue for its merits
Small, specialty regulations and laws are still fought for an against by special interests - they're just smaller numbers of people. It might be no more than literally a handful of people, some of which manage to get some speaking time at a hearing, or in a private meeting with their congress-creature. If the subject matter so arcane that one person's discussions with the committee or senator or whatever is wildly more persuasive than another's because she's better prepared, better informed, or more able to communicate, then yes - dollars talk because it costs money to have a very talented person making your case for you, if you're not going to go do it for yourself. Can you drop everything you're doing to go educate and persuade politicians on the merits of some arcane niche topic? No? What if you and a bunch of your colleagues carry on with your daily work and send a single talented person on your behalf? That's exactly balanced - you're balancing your need to influence the political process with your need to continue doing what you actually do for a living. There are professionals to help with that chore: they're called lobbyists. Have you ever met one, perhaps had a beer with one? No? You should.
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"adults" are some of the most delusional people I've met.
Re:Gum up the proceedings? (Score:4, Insightful)
The Huffington Post doesn't want to blame the Politicians because the politicians responsible are DEMOCRATS. Huffington is a propaganda machine for the Democrat party. Nothing more.
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Re:Gum up the proceedings? (Score:5, Insightful)
Leave it to the Huffington Post to somehow blame lobbyists without blaming the people they lobby.
Yeah well, don't blame them either. Unless you plan on voting them out, it makes you look fat. With a 95% reelection rate, the blame obviously lies elsewhere. The voters are rewarding bad behavior. Nothing can possibly change until that issue is acknowledged and dealt with.
Re:Gum up the proceedings? (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually the rules on sub-committees, for right or wrong require that any group that follows procedures gets a say in the process before a bill can be forwarded to the floor for voting. This requirement generally exists to keep legislators from ramrodding a bill through to vote without the public getting any chance to have a say, but in this case, so-called interested party groups sponsored by the tech companies keep surfacing and demanding their $.02 worth and the time to comment. It is a filibuster forced by the 'interested' parties rather than the congress critters themselves. This kind of thing is a poster child for the initiative process, and really should be directed at the federal level rather than rely on a state by state, tooth and nail fight.
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Who writes the rules for the sub-committee? For the whole legislature? Who grants exceptions to them, or can change them?
That's right, the members and their leadership and their rules committee.
It's not like the process is embedded in the NY State Constitution, other than to give the legislature control over their own rules and procedures. You can't blame "the rules" in order to avoid blaming the people who make and control "the rules".
Maybe it's a good bill, maybe it's a bad one, but it wasn't passed becau
No User Serviceable Parts inside (Score:2, Troll)
It says so in the User Manual. You void the warranty if you open it. And non-approved repairs leave you liable for any subsequent damages to persons or property from fire, explosion, radiation, hearing or vision loss, or children swallowing small parts. And probably looking inside is a criminal violation of the terms of service.
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No wonder you're likely a single person. You can't be bothered to care or even show that you care. Absolutely unattractive to any sort of potential mate.
Conversely., you're so busy typing command-line incantations into your fucking PHONE that your potential mate got bored and went home...
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The entire topic is about when it stops doing what you want it to do, and it needs to be repaired.
So you get it repaired under warranty. If it's out of warranty you can do what you like. But obviously if you are modifying the internals and you bring it in for a warranty repair the manufacturers dont want to be doing forensic analysis and then the inevitable argument about it to work out whether it was a manufacturing defect or the fault of your tinkering that caused the failure on a few hundred dollar phone.
With the tight level of integration of components that we see on devices now I can totally see th
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"No User Servicable Parts" does not mean "No User Replacable Parts". True, you can't "service" a L-Ion battery, an ARM CPU or an LCD screen, but you can replace a battery/motherboard/display.
Except the battery, the rest of your "component" replacement-examples are nothing more than module-level replacements.
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If the device is in warranty then it's the manufacturers responsibility to repair or replace it assuming it hasn't been subjected to abuse which would void the warranty.
If the device is out of warranty due to expiration or abuse then the owner has every right to attempt repair. The manufacturer no longer has a say and the owner has all the power/responsibility for resulting "fire, explosion, radiation, hearing or vision loss, or children swallowing small parts."
The manufacturer has no obligation to supply r
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If the device is in warranty then it's the manufacturers responsibility to repair or replace it assuming it hasn't been subjected to abuse which would void the warranty.
If the device is out of warranty due to expiration or abuse then the owner has every right to attempt repair. The manufacturer no longer has a say and the owner has all the power/responsibility for resulting "fire, explosion, radiation, hearing or vision loss, or children swallowing small parts."
The manufacturer has no obligation to supply repair procedures or to repair the product but the owner may repair or contract with a third party to repair. Caveat Emptor.
Any law which tries to force a manufacturer do anything it has not freely contracted to do is just plain wrong.
And that's why it will never happen. Not because of licensing; but rather, because of the First Sale doctrine. Once you purchase it, it's YOURS. The only power the OEM has WHATSOEVER is the right to refuse to honor a WARRANTY due to tampering during that period.
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Clearly, it is the responsibility of manufacturers to ensure that every design they ever produce is conducive to users performing any conceivable repair or replacement operation, regardless of hazard, liability, functionality, or reason.
It is up to the owner to decide what is conceivable or reasonable. Regarding hazardous, not everywhere in the world has the same silly legal system as the USA does, where apparently if Person A sticks a knife in Person B, then B can sue the knife manufacturer.
Never mind that the manufacturer's system is only functional with the manufacturer's parts
Not generally true, and would be even less so if things were easier to repair. In the world of cars there is a big industry independent of the original car makers making spare car parts.
or that there are other contracts (including service agreements) on other parts of the system
We are discussing repairing stuff out of warranty here as an alt
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If you get 1 update during that year, you are lucky.
Maybe in the cheap Android world.
SubjectsInCommentsAreStupidCauseTheSubjectIsTFA (Score:5, Insightful)
The US calls it 'lobbying'.
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Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupidCauseTheSubjectIsTFA (Score:5, Insightful)
The rest of the world calls it corruption.
The US calls it 'lobbying'.
No, the US calls it "freedom of assembly and speech," and it's protected under the very first amendment of the constitution. Let me guess, you'd like to reserve the right to get a few of your like-minded friends together and perhaps send one of them to talk to a committee chair about some piece of pending tech- or science-related legislation so they can avoid screwing it up ... but you'd like to silence other people that you don't like from doing exactly the same thing.
Or would you prefer that nobody gets to talk to legislators? Or that you only get to talk to them if millions of people also get to, simultaneously? There's a reason that it makes sense to form groups (like, say, The Association Of Concerned Scientists or the League Of Open Source Protector Justice Warriors or the Sierra Club, or the NAACP or the NRA or whatever) to allow lots of people to pool their resources and speak with one voice when it suits them to do so. You want corruption? Ban the free speech and free association that allows such groups to exist and lobby for what's important to them - watch what happens then.
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That's twice you have made an ass of yourself on this topic. I was trying to figure out what elaborate joke you were playing that was eluding me, but [shudder] I think you're absolutely on the level with your dreck. Go shill somewhere else.
Only in your labyrinthine mind does freedom of assembly have anything whatever to do with lobbying, aka subversion and corruption.
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Actually, it's right there in the Constitution [archives.gov]:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Every signed petition form and written letter is following the same legal channel as a lobbyist. A lobbyist just opens the discussion by saying "I represent this many people associated with this organization, and they have this concern". A Washington Post op-ed piece [washingtonpost.com] says it well:
How many remember that, in addition, the First Amendment protects a fifth freedom -- to lobby?
Of course it doesn't use the word lobby. It calls it the right "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Lobbyists are people hired to do that for you, so that you can actually stay home with the kids and remain gainfully employed rather than spend your life in the corridors of Washington.
Re:SubjectsInCommentsAreStupidCauseTheSubjectIsTFA (Score:5, Insightful)
A lobbyist just opens the discussion by saying "I represent this many people associated with this organization, and they have this concern".
...and also here is a buttload of "campaign donations" to make you see it our way.
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That's twice you have made an ass of yourself on this topic.
And here you are, unable to address the substance of the matter and instead relying on lazy, juvenile ad hominem. And pretending that you can't grasp that getting together to form an association (say, with the purpose of forwarding the interests of the association's members, including as matters that the association's members care about become subject to new legislation or regulation) isn't EXACTLY the sort of thing the nation's founders sought to protect when they prohibited the government from infringing
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No, the US calls it "freedom of assembly and speech," and it's protected under the very first amendment of the constitution.
What a peculiar spin you've got there!
It is well known that the US is not a democracy but a plutocracy so even if i were to concede your point i would be simply pointing out another way for the rich to have their way against the public interest, simply because granting this (very much bent) definition of "freedom of speech and assembly" grants them the economic upper hand.
I don't care how you spin it, anything against the public interest is clearly IMMORAL.
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It is well known that the US is not a democracy but a plutocracy
No it's not well known, but it is frequently asserted by people who want to spin things that way.
I don't care how you spin it, anything against the public interest is clearly IMMORAL.
So, people used to argue that abolishing slavery was against the public interest, as it would damage the economy, ruin long-held family estates, etc. Would you consider abolishing slavery to be immoral? No? I see.
So it comes down to what you think is "in the public interest." I, for example, don't think it's in the public interest to establish and maintain a dependency-creating welfare state. So, you think
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Well, then what word would you use?
what word describe it when the mass citizenry of the nation gets its concerns addressed to their satisfaction less than 10% of the time, but when broken down along financial term, the folks below the 1% find that satisfaction less than 1% of the time, but the top 1% find that satisfaction more than 30% of the time?
sure sounds like the rich get an awful lot more power and influence to me.
now what's the word for that?
gee, I think its "plutocracy":
government by the wealthy.
a country or society governed by the wealthy.
Sure seems to fit the situat
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freedom of assembly and speech
Freedom of assembly and speech is currently reserved for people with enough money to buy the right to that assembly. You don't have that "freedom".
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Freedom of assembly and speech is currently reserved for people with enough money to buy the right to that assembly. You don't have that "freedom".
So, you and ten people, or a thousand, want to form a group because you have something in common. Please detail what is stopping you from doing that. Specifically.
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I have a question: how many people are represented by the lobbyist? My guess is that they will fit into one room. Are you saying that if I grab the same number of friends at the local pub, then I have the same chances?
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so instead we should have a weak government that cant actually address the needs of the people?
lobbyists have always been around even int eh days of kings and queens. people seeking to peddle and obtain influence.
that doesn't mean that the problem lies in the strength of government itself, with the implication that the solution is a weak one.
the problem is in the strength of the people, government and citizen, specifically their strength of character.
the solution is in installing people of character, and cr
just wait for cars to be this way! dealer only is (Score:4, Interesting)
just wait for just wait for cars to be this way! dealer only is they really want and with that even stuff like an oil change may cost $50 + labor.
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just wait for just wait for cars to be this way
The majority of Slashdot is pushing for this. People want autonomous cars that you call on demand and don't have to own or maintain themselves.
Re:just wait for cars to be this way! dealer only (Score:4, Insightful)
Even normal, non-autonomous cars are becoming this way. It used to be it was easy to replace the vendor's radio system with your own using a standard form factor and connections. Now, it's "infotainment" tied closely into the rest of the car, and will throw codes if you try to remove it. Aftermarket alternatives are less and less available as this stuff becomes more and more proprietary.
DRM'ed internal buses in the car are also becoming a thing.
Self-driving or not, this is coming.
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Even normal, non-autonomous cars are becoming this way. It used to be it was easy to replace the vendor's radio system with your own using a standard form factor and connections. Now, it's "infotainment" tied closely into the rest of the car, and will throw codes if you try to remove it.
Honestly, I actually believe that the integration of "infotainment" systems has more to do with resource-sharing cost and space savings than proprietary lock-in.
I mean, how many REDUNDANT, separate displays and control-clusters do you need/can you fit in a frickin' CAR?
Now I DO think that some industry-standards (sort of like CAN, for example) could help a lot; but then a "car stereo" would have to get much more complex (and thus more expensive) to be able to display/control arbitrary "automotive" funct
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fvck Apple, Samsung et all, ad naseum... (Score:2)
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In the area of desktop PCs, the mantra of 'recycling' is already being used to rather aggressively transfer all 'used' computers out of local communities and into operations that dismantle and destroy them.
My local Goodwill sells a lot of nice keyboards and mice. All the CPU boxes get scrapped by Dell. All that nice hardware, a lot of which would live a second life very well running Linux or a BSD operating system.
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NO. All that old hardware uses way too much power. Almost any consumer PC before Core2Duo should be retired as a power hog and replaced with a SoC of some kind.
The real vote has already been cast long ago (Score:5, Insightful)
If people wanted more repairable devices, they would have bought them.
Instead consumers have, in droves, chosen to buy MORE RELIABLE sealed devices that they do not have to screw with.
I'm not just talking about the iPhone, or the other Android phones that all followed suit. I'm talking about cars, about appliances, almost everything is more more contained, much better sealed, and much harder to repair.
If the world wants more "repairable" things then by all means make them and ell them. But do not demand that companies ruin products in the pursuit of a goal few are interested in.
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Thanks! (Score:2)
I added that wording specifically to draw in people like you so I could add in more information on that point.
The fact is that all of my laptops with sealed batteries, all of my phones with sealed batteries, all modern cars I have owned have been MORE RELIABLE. They have had better battery life, and devices with sealed batteries have NEVER needed batteries replaced after years of service where all of my older devices with replaceable batteries had to have them replaced every six months to a year. I hated
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The usual all or nothing approach.
Consumers haven't spoken because we didn't get a voice. We are presented with a wide range of irreparable devices to chose from. I vote with my wallet so ... move to an Amish community?
As for reliability. That was a really good joke. Implying that you can have reliable or repairable but not both. Classic. You should do a stand-up gig, you'll raise the roof, only to have people break down and cry after when they remember the devices they had that lasted 10+ years without iss
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> Instead consumers have, in droves, chosen to buy MORE RELIABLE
> sealed devices that they do not have to screw with... I'm talking about
> cars, about appliances, almost everything is more more contained,
> much better sealed, and much harder to repair.
Except that most appliances I own, major or minor, from toasters to home AC units, are LESS reliable now than they were decades ago.
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The bill should be called 'an entitlement to have something provided to the bigger block of voters at the expense of a smaller block of voters' bill.
Welcome to the West, comrade!
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Reliable? An iPhone? You must be kidding right? Have you ever seen or even heard of one?
Oh, wait, your whole post is arguing that locked-down unrepeairable crap is somehow more reliable. Yep, the iPhone got much more reliable after the pentalobular screws.
You are either trolling, or are a paid shill.
Actually, they did.
It isn't hard to find Pentalobe screwdrivers. Yay, free market!
And Pentalobe screws are MORE user-friendly than #00 Philips they replaced; because it is FAR FAR FAR too easy for people not used to handling precision screw sizes to STRIP the HEADS of the Philips screws than it is the Pentalobe screws.
Not everything has to be a slotted or Phillips. That's why there are already dozens of screw/bolt head designs. Because some of them were created because they are actually BETTER DESIGNS
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I have been repairing my own smartphones since smartphones exist, and never had a problem with Phillips screws. And if they are as bad as you claim, it is a bit of a mystery why every single manufacturer but Apple uses them. Surely at least one would have seen the light and gone with something different no? Maybe they would convert to pentalobular, since they are so great.
But let's assume for the sake of argument that there is something wrong with Phillips screw. It is perfectly reasonable to think that the
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Maybe they would convert to pentalobular, since they are so great.
Pentalobe screws are Patented; precisely for that reason.
If they actually wanted to go with something better than Phillips they would have gone with Torx.
They did that, too, long, long ago; but I think that they wanted something that was easier for precision hand-assembly than the Torx. At that size, a Torx head looks like a damned DOT to the naked eye; but the Pentalobe has much larger "features" (lobes), that the assembler can visually locate without necessarily resorting to magnification,plus the "lobes" are much "meatier" [ifixit.net] (as opposed to the tiny "teeth" of Torx at that size), which means far more t
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Maybe they would convert to pentalobular, since they are so great.
Pentalobe screws are Patented; precisely for that reason.
Holy shit! You are seriously claiming that the reason other manufacturers don't use pentalobular screws is because they are patented? So you predict that when the patents expire evereyone is going to switch to them? Ignoring the fact that none of them switched to the patent-free Torx? And ignoring that Samsung, LG, etc. have shitloads of cash and they could have developed their own screw heads if they thought it was necessary?
Come on, do you actually believe this nonsense, or is Apple paying you to repeat i
1960s Warranty Laws (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a huge fan of EFF, iFixit, and other groups that supported and pushed this legislation. I hope my Monday morning quarterbacking isn't misconstrued. But I studied the USA's warranty and repair laws passed in the 1960s (Ralph Nader's origins), which were in response to Vance Packard's 1960 book "The Waste Makers". The allegations of "planned obsolescence" really alarmed people and led to the strongest car and electronics warranty laws in the world. Those laws are all completely out of date (predating software), but trying to start from scratch may be a tactical error.
Today's repair advocates, are in the right place... but perhaps missing out by by not recruiting some Consumer Rights veterans. Maybe they could market this to the retired people who remember the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 etc. Seniors who, replaced their own auto spark plugs, they tend to vote in high numbers and could have been sending a signal to legislators. The advocacy I saw for this Right to Repair law was promoted by a younger, cooler, Makerspace set, I didn't see many allies from Ralph Nader's generation. It would be hard to win funding of VA hospitals without marketing it to/through the war Veterans. Just my 2 cents.
and it goes how far? (Score:5, Insightful)
And in what level of detail / remedy would it have to explain how to repair the item? My laptop's GPU has a few transistors that got fried. Are they saying Apple has to tell me how to disassemble the chip, do nanosurgery on it and refabricate a few layers of silicon? Or that "get a new laptop" is sufficient to fix the issue?
Nice sentiment, but full of holes in how it would be implemented.
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I don't know that it was ever required, but in the 50's and 60's it was common for most things you could buy to have schematics available from the manufacturer, or sometimes even include the schematics with the device.
That started to die out in the 1970's and 80's, and was just about 100% dead by the 90's.
Yes, as the active device (transistor) count went from the single-digits to MILLIONS, and the number of leads on the active components went from 3 to 16 to 240 BGA "pins" you can't even SEE, and the pitch of the component leads and PCB traces went from .030" to .005", and the average number of layers of the PCB went from 1 to 10, with many signal paths ENTIRELY "buried".
Can't imagine what ever happened to that Sam's Photofacts for your iPhone. Must be a conspiracy!
Requirement should be 3 year warranty (Score:5, Interesting)
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or the usual 90 day warranty
Wait. WTF? There's places in the world where 90 days warranty is "usual"?
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So what you're saying is you want a law mandating that you have to buy AppleCare? Why not... just buy it if you want it?
You're already paying a premium for products that are purposely designed to be non-repairable. Why should I be forced to have to pay an extra warranty premium for products that are basically designed to fail (MacBook Pro [apple.com] anyone? *) that I then can't try to fix myself (or choose who fixes it)?
(* yes, I know they 'recalled' this and will fix for free - but only after really bad PR/threats of class action lawsuits finally forced them into it)
Ever actually READ a "right to repair" law? (Score:3)
We're not talking asinine BS like how the DMCA forbids you from modding your Playstation... on your own and with no interaction with, or aid from, Sony. Many of these laws place some very onerous requirements on the vendors.
They require vendors to surrender internal documentation, designs, schematics, and procedures to pretty much any random un-vetted third party that wants them. This includes software patches and updates, and sometimes even private signing keys. Sometimes the vendor is required to let these people piggyback on their own parts and supplies chain, rather than have the repair shops establish their own supplier relationships. They usually abrogate the usual NDA requirements for third-party partners. And they almost always require all of that with no compensation.
No company in their right mind would let that pass without fighting tooth and nail against it.
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We're not talking asinine BS like how the DMCA forbids you from modding your Playstation... on your own and with no interaction with, or aid from, Sony. Many of these laws place some very onerous requirements on the vendors.
They require vendors to surrender internal documentation, designs, schematics, and procedures to pretty much any random un-vetted third party that wants them. This includes software patches and updates, and sometimes even private signing keys. Sometimes the vendor is required to let these people piggyback on their own parts and supplies chain, rather than have the repair shops establish their own supplier relationships. They usually abrogate the usual NDA requirements for third-party partners. And they almost always require all of that with no compensation.
No company in their right mind would let that pass without fighting tooth and nail against it.
PRECISELY!
Right to send to the landfill. (Score:2)
Instead of right to repair, the current warranty offerings (90 days) are more like the right to throw away when it breaks and purchase a new product.
I can understand that some products due to their intricacy may be designed to not be serviceable by anyone but the manufacturer, but if that is the case, then a longer warranty period is justified to make up for the fact that it is unserviceable. I think the EU has the right idea with trading standards bureaus and statutory minimum warranty periods. (I will pro
These Liberal States... (Score:2)
...aren't so Liberal, are they?
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Liberal or Conservative doesn't matter when an industries bottom line is at stake. When this happens, the trade associations mobilize, and lobby the state legislature to trash the proposed bill. Money talks, and sensible legislation walks!
Shiny (Score:2)
"Big Tech" sounds like the name of a bluetooth enabled sex toy.
mmm, good (Score:2)
Sheep stew cooked up by our very own oligarchy, with just a soupçon of lip-service.
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Sheep stew cooked up by our very own oligarchy
Actually, the sheep are doing the cooking and serving themselves.
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Nah. Cooking's being done by the legislators, their appointed minions, and the courts.
Congress: 94% re-election rate last time around. Justices: "Constitution? Why, I had a bowel movement just yesterday, thank you."
The sheep are just milling around confused, as is the habit of sheep.
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Please tell me which countries enforce their citizens right to repair their devices. I want to find a country that doesn't suck the way America does. Thanks.
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You can't always know this though. Especially for larger devices that are comprised of many sub-components. For example, my father had a camper in which the heating controller failed. He asked if I could fix it, since it was electronic. When he showed the unit to me, it was completely encased in epoxy. This was 80's TTL tech, normally totally fixable, but not now. $300 for new unit that should have cost $30, tops.
Would that be something you'd actually think to look into when buying a camper? Maybe after get
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Your market collective sounds like a bunch of commies. Why should they decide what I can buy?
What is the next thing, forcing companies to repair stuff regardless of the economics of it?
No, the simple solution is to revoke all copyright and patent privileges from the product so that anybody can legally repair or sell replacements. See, the idea here is make sure we have an open market. We can't let people with all the money use government resources to close it off from the rest of us.
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"sorry, mr. repair guy, we noticed you replaced our Itchy-con caps with Nichicon ones. that voids your warranty. have a nice day."
Re:Right to repair? (Score:5, Interesting)
Some electronics are now designed to be unfixable.
For example, I own an xbox 360. The DVD drive on it is a bit dodgy - it works, barely, unreliably. I'd like to replace it, but I can't. Firstly because it uses a non-standard power connector, but more seriously because the 360 DVD drive is paired with the security chip on the mainboard. The board stores a serial number for the drive, and queries the drive serial on boot - if they don't match, the console disables itsself. It's a measure to prevent piracy (somehow), but it also makes replacing the drive impossible.
The iPhone now does a similar thing with the fingerprint sensor. It's a very common form of failure, as the sensor is delicate and exposed to the outside world. But the phone stores the sensor serial in secure memory - if the sensor is replaced, the phone disables itsself.
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the 360 DVD drive is paired with the security chip on the mainboard. The board stores a serial number for the drive, and queries the drive serial on boot - if they don't match, the console disables itsself. It's a measure to prevent piracy (somehow), but it also makes replacing the drive impossible.
It's a PITA, but not impossible. You can extract the key if the drive is not completely dead. Or, if the PCB is still good, you can swap the PCB to another drive.
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I just have to hit the console until the drive opens. The point here is that repairing a device shouldn't involve a battle of skill between the designer and the user - if it's possible to repair a 360, it's only possible because some highly skilled hackers have been able to out-think the Microsoft engineers who were tasked to design a console with deliberate anti-repair measures built in.
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It's a measure to prevent piracy (somehow)
Easy answer there, the DVD drive in the XBox 360 is custom and is responsible for doing anti-piracy checks on the loaded disc. Early DRM breaking methods involved powering up the xbox, disconnecting the SATA cable from the drive during post and then plugging it into a PC and flashing new firmware onto the DVD drive. Lots of people fried units when they didn't realise the xbox had a floating ground and if you don't connect the metal of the inner chassis to the computer case first you get a spark.
Compared to
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The iPhone now does a similar thing with the fingerprint sensor. It's a very common form of failure, as the sensor is delicate and exposed to the outside world. But the phone stores the sensor serial in secure memory - if the sensor is replaced, the phone disables itsself.
That was not an anti-consumer-repair measure; but rather, a CAREFULLY THOUGHT-OUT anti-SECURITY-CIRCUMVENTION measure.
Since, for very good security reasons, the Fingerprint Sensor ITSELF stores the Fingerprint data, if Apple had NOT taken pains to PAIR the SoC with the Fingerprint Sensor, ANYONE that acquired physical possession of your iPhone could simply replace YOUR fingerprint sensor with YOUR fingerprint data with THEIR fingerprint sensor with THEIR fingerprint data and VOILA!!! Instant Access!!!
An
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Easy solution for that:
"New fingerprint sensor detected. For security reasons fingerprint identification has been disabled. Please enter your PIN or iTunes account to continue. Fingerprint recognition may be re-configured from settings."
Now everyone is happy. The phone gets repaired, and security cannot be compromised by replacing the sensor.
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Any gearhead should be able to open and fix stuff on their own. It's really not that hard, and you can buy everything everywhere. What's the point?
Never been inside of a cellphone, have you?
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Making something repairable also makes it more complex, more expensive and probably less reliable.
Yeah whatever. They can start with not using patented screwdrivers so people can't get them [slashdot.org]. A lot of this has nothing to do with reliability.
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The choice of screw is dictated by the tooling and equipment used to carry out final assembly. If a $20 patented screwdriver with a proprietary head design saves one second of production time per iPhone by doing a better job at guiding itself into the slot or being less likely to cam out when tightened, it doesn't take too long for it to pay for itself.
That's not to justify Apple's active interference with third-party repair shops. Just pointing out that when you're producing things at this scale, your pr
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If a $20 screw driver is making you mad you probably don't want to know about special purpose single use tools for car repair, gun smithing, etc.
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Making something repairable also makes it more complex, more expensive and probably less reliable.
Yeah whatever. They can start with not using patented screwdrivers so people can't get them [slashdot.org]. A lot of this has nothing to do with reliability.
And yet, lots of people sell Pentalobe Screwdrivers (including iFixit, who whined about them), and yet Apple has not taken a single one of them to court for Patent Infringement.
Maybe that's because it really WASN'T an anti-consumer measure at all; but rather, maybe, just maybe, a pro-reliability (MUCH harder to strip the head than a Phillips) measure.
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MUCH harder to strip the head than a Phillips
Pentalobe is definitely better than phillips, but they aren't as good as a hex screw imo (and yes, I have a pentalobe screwdriver)
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MUCH harder to strip the head than a Phillips
Pentalobe is definitely better than phillips, but they aren't as good as a hex screw imo (and yes, I have a pentalobe screwdriver)
Not sure what you are calling a "hex screw".
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I guess there will be a lot of $99.99 devices offered in CA then!
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Some states don't have initiative and referendum for issues like this. Texas, I'm talking to you!
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