Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Compare cell phone plans using Wirefly's innovative plan comparison tool ×
IOS Handhelds OS X Portables Portables (Apple)

Tim Cook: Apple Won't Create 'Converged' MacBook and iPad (independent.ie) 337

LichtSpektren writes: In an interview with Independent.ie, Apple CEO Tim Cook has stated that Apple is currently not looking to create an iPad that runs Mac OS X. "We feel strongly that customers are not really looking for a converged Mac and iPad, because what that would wind up doing, or what we're worried would happen, is that neither experience would be as good as the customer wants. So we want to make the best tablet in the world and the best Mac in the world. And putting those two together would not achieve either. You'd begin to compromise in different ways." Cook also commented that he does not travel with a Mac anymore, only his iPad Pro and iPhone.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Tim Cook: Apple Won't Create 'Converged' MacBook and iPad

Comments Filter:
  • by mattventura ( 1408229 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:01PM (#50940271) Homepage
    Well I don't think making the best Mac in the world is very hard for Apple, there isn't exactly a lot of competition there.
    • by azav ( 469988 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @01:58PM (#50941341) Homepage Journal

      It's been straight downhill with regards to usability for every release after 10.6.8.

      Too much animation that you can't turn off.

      Terrible colors (glaring painful blue against all white).

      This terrible "flat" design means you can't tell what a button is.

      Removal of button backgrounds from buttons also means that you can't tell what a button is.

      Did I mention too much useless animation that you can't turn off? Because there's too much distracting and useless animation that you can't turn off.

      Apple needs to get back to their basics.

  • I'm pretty sure the Ipad & Iphone kernels are based if not the same as the OS/X one, and most of the surrounding programs & libraries taken from OS/X recompiled for ARM. All they need is a different GUI and specific drivers for the phone baseband hardware.

    • I see the main thing Apple would have to solve if they were to ever create a hybrid is a better UI. Touch works well for tablets but not so much for computers. Keyboard and mouse work well for computers but not tablets. For now MS didn't really solve the problem other than offering both on the Surface; however, the forcing of users to use more touch in Windows 8 has led to a backlash.
      • My impression is that Apple wants the mouse and all other pointing functions to go away. They have created all kinds of ridiculous swipes on the touchpad that completely breaks my typing flow, while making things impossible to do with hotkeys.
        • by swb ( 14022 )

          Which for me is a big disappointment. I'd already have an iPad Pro if it could pair a Bluetooth mouse to go with the bluetooth keyboard.

          The iPad is fine for tablety kind of things, like couch surfing, etc.

          I can already get a fair amount of more serious work done with a Bluetooth keyboard, but the lack of a mouse makes it just too clunky to get anything done. There's just too many weird, hard-to-remember touch swipes and combinations to be efficient.

          When my iPad 3 finally stops being useful at all (not the

          • The problem is, there is a great mass of people that don't use a computer for serious things so they will be supportive of devices that aren't for serious things. This will make the cost of serious devices go up.
      • by ColdWetDog ( 752185 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:49PM (#50940737) Homepage

        The real killer for productivity in iOS is the lack of user space accessible file system. Either they have to open the up to iOS users - and take the security hit, or they have to hide it from OS X users (over our dead 17 inch laptops).

        • Windows 8 and 10 have a user accessible file system without compromising security. It's kind of a PITA in some situations because the user has to elevate each folder's access privileges per application and some some folders like like Win32 Program Files and the System directory are off-limits (except through UNC hacks).

          Forces developers to rethink a lot of stuff too since file access isn't guaranteed.

    • by monkeyxpress ( 4016725 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:19PM (#50940443)

      There has also been a lot of convergence in OSX/iOS development tools over the last few xcode releases. AppKit has UiKit style autolayout now and many of the back end services and apis are being normalised.

      The Apple Pencil makes a mouse oriented UI usable on an iPad like device, and I wouldn't be surprised if by the iPad Pro 2 it is reasonably trivial to make an OSX app that builds for iPad Pro with minimal UI tweaks.

    • It's fairly well known that the cores of iOS and OS X (no slash, please! :-) ) are the same. That's not really the issue here—it's the problems with the differences between the optimal UI for a keyboard-and-mouse-based (or whatever pointing device you prefer) interface and the optimal UI for a touch-based interface.

      But while I agree that it would be foolish to try to make a hybridized OS, I could see there being a device that works both ways, a few years from now, by being an iOS device when it's on i

    • All they need is a different GUI and specific drivers for the phone baseband hardware.

      Yeah... all that's left is the really hard part.

      • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        You're joking right? Phone hardware is pretty standardised and does most of the heavy lifting internally. Writing a GUI pales into insignificance compared to writing the core OS kernel and supporting frameworks and plumbing.

        • Those two statements are in conflict with each other. ;)

          Writing a GUI pales into insignificance compared to writing the core OS kernel and supporting frameworks and plumbing.

          If that were even remotely true Linux would have a much better marketshare right now. I'm not sure why you're writing off the GUI, it's like you're under-estimating what it takes to put together a system that supports Apps, varying hardware, and simultaneously attempting to be secure and totally open about it.

          The kernel is not where most of the development time for iOS or Android was spent.

  • Odd choice (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tomknight ( 190939 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:04PM (#50940297) Homepage Journal

    As a (surprisedly) happy Surface user, it seems strange that Apple aren't trying to regain initiative here. The Surface is really a good beast, it works well as a tablet and a desktop replacement (for standard light Office apps, some games and some more demading programs). It gives me a good touch keyboard for sshing into my systems, and has a USB interface for storage, keyboard, mouse. These are all things that the iPad failed to do.

    • by cfalcon ( 779563 )

      I honestly think that they can't yet. Microsoft just needs the tech to be there, and they can deliver. Apple has a different set of standards that often result in them being delayed to market with many aspects of computing- the pieces where they get there first are often based on design or UI revolutions that they start. Combine that with the fact that Apple's insistence on running their own OSes everywhere is both a blessing and a curse...

      The "surface" model was likely chosen by Microsoft as an actually

      • The "surface" model was likely chosen by Microsoft as an actually open area in tech, one where their competitors couldn't show up nearly instantly, including Apple.

        There were many "Surface" devices on the market. They are just a natural progression of tablet model from 2003ish where laptops came with displays that could fold back on themselves, and I've used many such devices over the past 12 years. There is only a few key things that Microsoft did to try and win with the surface:
        - Use today's tech. A tablet needed to be light and needed a capacitive touchscreen.
        - Go all out. When the Surface was released it was competing against small light laptops and cheap crap "tr

    • [...](for standard light Office apps, some games and some more demading programs)

      I think you proved their point for them. If it can't do everything a desktop can do, people are going to need the desktop.

      On the other hand, if it is a really good tablet and can hand off apps to the desktop Mac (it's baked into the current iOS/OS X versions), that's considered a good deal in the Apple books. Maximal functionality with minimal compromise.

      • If it can't do everything a desktop can do, people are going to need the desktop.

        Neither can my Macbook Pro ( or Windows / Linux laptops ) since laptop GFX cards suck compared to Desktop GFX cards. Should I throw out all of my laptops since obviously a desktop is better?

        Guess what I usually use my laptops for.... Office apps, some games, and some more demanding programs like Lightroom / PS.
        A surface Pro would work just as well as any of the laptops I use on the go, better in some cases because of the digitizer and pen.

    • Re:Odd choice (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:56PM (#50940799)

      Given the track record at Apple, it means they are working feverishly on an iBook or MacPadPro device similar to the Surface Book. It is approximately 3 years from introduction based on previous product denials and subsequent releases. I cite the iPad Mini and iPad Pro as examples of this trend.

      Apple literally does this with most of it's new products which are simply imitations and following the leaders in a segment. They decry the necessity and utility until they can bring their own product to market. "You'd have to sand down your fingers" and such stupidity.

    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      Apple tends to assume the developer is lazy or at least market driven, meaning they won't support the odd alternative very well. See for example Apple's approach to high DPI vs Windows. So they think that most your desktop-ish apps will treat touch like shit and most your touch-oriented apps will treat keyboard+mouse as shit. It seems Apple is focusing on providing hand-off from one system to the other. I'm sure that at some point they'll offer it on one physical device so you can flip it from tablet to lap

    • by c ( 8461 )

      As a (surprisedly) happy Surface user, it seems strange that Apple aren't trying to regain initiative here.

      It wouldn't surprise me if Apple is at the point where they truly believe that any initiative they lose can be easily regained should they decide to enter a particular market with an iDevice.

      Recent history might even lend support for that kind of belief.

    • by Aaden42 ( 198257 )

      As an unhappy Surface user, I applaud Apple's ability to recognize that a tablet and a "computer" (be it laptop or desktop) are fundamentally different usage scenarios that the same hardware and/or OS are unlikely to satisfy without compromising and making both experiences less optimal.

      For the record, you can in fact hook a USB keyboard up to iPad (and even iPhone). Bluetooth also works if you prefer wireless. The devices don't have standard USB ports, but an $8 adapter (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HPQUBG

  • Being that OSX is a PC operating system I'm guessing they won't combine OSX and iOS because he believes laptops and desktops are dying technology that no longer needs his attention.

    • PCs were the only solution to certain problems for a long time: How do you interact with a website? How do you answer email? etc. As tablets are filling that need for more and more of the average consumer, PC sales are dying. The average Joe never "needed" a PC really. The PC was just the only choice he/she really had before smartphones and tablets. For some consumers, yes, they'll need documents, spreadsheets, and gaming so there will always be some PC sales.
      • by Junta ( 36770 )

        Of course this is very very bad development for those of us who need PCs. To the extent it is a high volume industry, low margins and therefore low cost become accessible. The more volume decreases, the higher risk of higher margins demanded by all in the chain.

        • Well the good news is that most PCs have more and more standard and that things can be re-used. When you buy a PC these days, you don't need to get a separate sound card, network card, storage card (eSATA etc). You don't even need to get a video card if you are not gaming. The high volume also meant that components are cheap (good and bad). I built a new PC for about $300 last year. Since I re-used the case, PS, and drives, the CPU, MB and RAM was the only thing I needed to buy.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by macs4all ( 973270 )

        As tablets are filling that need for more and more of the average consumer, PC sales are dying.

        Maybe for the rest of the industry; but not for Apple [techcrunch.com].

        • When people don't have a MSWindows tablet or phone, they are getting by without MSWindows applications. In that setting, there's less demand for MSWindows desktop computers.

          On the other hand, when their iOS device is known to hand off applications to OS X, maybe you'll get more people to Mac desktops.

          It's not a large percentage of MS Windows users, but a small percentage of MSWindows users makes up a significant number of Mac users.

      • by cfalcon ( 779563 )

        The average Joe absolutely "needed" a PC. The simple tasks you described were vastly out of scope for what tech that fits in your pocket could do back then. What has happened is that we can now put those basic functions in a smaller package. Another huge one is security- older models of OS design would have implicitly trusted all kinds of crap. If you'd have had smartphones with 80s OS design, you'd have had some dumb phone worm shut down comms across the globe, repeatedly.

        What you used to need state of

      • PCs were the only solution to certain problems for a long time: How do you interact with a website? How do you answer email?

        And in the era of "every child should learn to code", how do you do your programming homework? Raspberry Pi?

        For some consumers, yes, they'll need documents, spreadsheets, and gaming

        I think the idea is that at some point everyone will become among "some consumers". But perhaps your use of "consumer", meaning someone who only views works created by others and does not create works, is misleading [gnu.org].

        • And in the era of "every child should learn to code", how do you do your programming homework? Raspberry Pi?

          Every child should code is your starting premise. Not everyone agrees with you. Your initial premise is not necessarily accepted as true.

          I think the idea is that at some point everyone will become among "some consumers". But perhaps your use of "consumer", meaning someone who only views works created by others and does not create works, is misleading [gnu.org].

          My meaning of consumer is the vernacular meaning of consumer. [reference.com] Please don't assume what I mean.

          • by tepples ( 727027 )

            And in the era of "every child should learn to code", how do you do your programming homework? Raspberry Pi?

            Every child should code is your starting premise. Not everyone agrees with you. Your initial premise is not necessarily accepted as true.

            Let me rephrase: And now that governments are adopting policies that "every child should learn to code", how do you do your programming homework?

            My meaning of consumer is the vernacular meaning of consumer.

            The closest sense I could find on the linked page was "2. Economics. a person or organization that uses a commodity or service." Just to be certain that we are free from equivocation [wikipedia.org], is this sense what you meant?

            • Let me rephrase: And now that governments are adopting policies that "every child should learn to code", how do you do your programming homework?

              With a PC. To be clear, I have never said that PCs are to be banned. My point was that for most people the PC was the only way to do things in the past. When smartphones and tablets became available, people have stopped buying as many PCs because they don't need them. There will always be a need for PCs for some people.

              The closest sense I could find on the linked page was "2. Economics. a person or organization that uses a commodity or service." Just to be certain that we are free from equivocation [wikipedia.org], is this sense what you meant?

              Yes the vernacular meaning of consumer if you have been reading the thread.

    • With the current push by various tech companies to get girls and women into tech and coding, Apple have decided that people really want a device that you cannot do any serious coding on. So yeah, that works...

    • by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:34PM (#50940585) Homepage

      Or, because he believes there will always be separate markets for Macs and portable devices, that they're not the same thing, and creating one combined device would probably result in a device which sucked as a PC and as a mobile device. I'm inclined to agree.

      I don't want my tablet or my phone to be running the same OS I'd run on my desktop or my laptop. They're different things, used differently, and don't even run the same programs.

      I keep looking at Microsoft trying to make all of the devices converge as full-spec x86 devices as lazy and self-serving because they don't have the ability to come up with a mobile OS which isn't just the same under the covers. It screams "we have no idea how to make a new mobile operating system, so instead we'll stick with the same architecture we've had for 20 years and do nothing".

      You don't need to think laptops and desktops are a dying technology. You just don't have to think that converging them to a single device actually results in a good product.

      Microsoft just wants to put out the exact same thing they already have and call it mobile. Not everyone agrees. In fact, we think it's just lazy, and pushing out a product and calling it "innovating", and will result in a product which sucks at both tasks. Increasingly, Microsoft looks like the old tech company who can't see past the world being about Office and Outlook -- which means they seem to be missing the point about what people actually want.

      I agree with Tim Cook, that's just a product which will suck as a desktop/laptop, and also suck as a mobile device.

      For the things most people are using their tablets for, there is no benefit in having it be an x86 platform. And from what I've seen of the new Microsoft interface, it's so horribly skewed towards being a bad interface for tablets ... it's an utterly useless interface for desktops.

      They should be separate operating systems because they're different devices, and used differently.

      Once again, those "I'm a PC/I'm a Mac" ads showing Microsoft stuck in the past and missing the point seem like sheer brilliance. Because slavishly trying to keep to x86 on the thinking it's better than solving the actual problem is just inertia and not wanting things to change.

  • And Apple is wrong (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vux984 ( 928602 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:08PM (#50940341)

    The three phases of Apple:

    1 - Tell us we don't want something at all.
    2 - Watch everyone ignore you and build versions of it anyway.
    3- Show up late to the party with an Apple version and say you invented it; rake in the money.

    We're moving from stage 1 to stage 2 now.

    So translation: Apple is working on it, but its not ready yet.

  • by danbob999 ( 2490674 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:10PM (#50940369)

    We will never make a larger phone.

  • Cook sounds very Blackberrian with this. If he thinks they can fight the entire industry movement, good luck.

    • Maybe, but on the other hand he is also hedging his bets. If the iPad Pro proves to be popular, then it will be relatively easy for them to adapt their strategy. If anything I find their lineup quite confused now (certainly not the focus that Jobs had) with the MacBook, MacBook Pro and now iPad Pro kind of throwing a range of products out there at roughly the same price and asking the customers to decide what they value most.

      I think this is to be expected though now their oracle is dead. I think the breakin

    • by macs4all ( 973270 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @01:00PM (#50940851)

      Cook sounds very Blackberrian with this. If he thinks they can fight the entire industry movement, good luck.

      Funny. Apple's PC sales are UP year-over-year, while the "entire (rest) of the industry" sales are down.

      I think the "entire (rest) of the industry" needs to stop being such lemmings. It seems like Apple is the only company who has actually analyzed what the market wants. The rest are just trying to "out innovate" Apple. They couldn't come up with one single tablet that would unseat the iPad; so they said "I know, let's listen to what the Microsoft Rep that came in last quarter said about "The future of computing" " and build something based on MS' Reference Design."

      What else explains something like half a dozen mfgs coming out with virtually the same device within the same 6 months?

      Meanwhile, Apple chugs along, chuckling to itself, knowing that it had already experimented internally with exactly that type of device five years ago, and found out that none of their alpha-testers liked it.

      • "Funny. Apple's PC sales are UP year-over-year, while the "entire (rest) of the industry" sales are down. I think the "entire (rest) of the industry" needs to stop being such lemmings."

        Or alternatively, people are largely satisfied with the performance of their current windows PC and feel no need to pay a premium for a new computer that will not do any better and will require them to adapt the the "Apple Way". My 4 year old Core i5 PC is still going strong. In that time, 2 new video cards and an upgrade t
      • Apple's PC sales are UP year-over-year

        Errr no. Mac sales haven't noticeable increased in the last 5 years. Markshare has changed with the move from PCs as a consumption device to tablets reducing the number of PCs in relation to Macs but even those figures are in the order of a couple of percent.

        Mac's aren't magic and PCs aren't hated. The entire industry is simply stagnant as the upgrade cycle is broken. MS and Apple are both releasing operating systems which run faster and are more resource efficient than previous ones and consoles have pegge

  • by xtal ( 49134 )

    Don't care so much for the OS integration.

    It would be nice to be able to create programs on the iPad Pro, though. It's performance and specs make a compelling case.

    In the meantime, if you want to program, you need to bring your macbook and iPad..

    Also, when will they give the Mac Pro some love?

    Developers? Developers? Developers...

    • "It would be nice to be able to create programs on the iPad Pro". How many good durable mechanical switch keyboards work with a tablet? Programming on OS/X is frustrating enough for me, never mind being relegated to a touch screen.
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        Sorry. OSX or OS X, not OS/X.

        The first two don't look right to me.
        • This is an adapter solution not a full keyboard solution. I did a google too and didn't see an actual mechanical switch keyboard being sold with bluetooth in the top 10 entries or so. I also searched on 'daskeyboard bluetooth' and it doesn't seem like there is one.
      • How many good durable mechanical switch keyboards work with a tablet? Programming on OS/X is frustrating enough for me, never mind being relegated to a touch screen.

        Honestly, they make Bluetooth keyboards, and have for years. Many companies make them, they should all work with pretty much anything.

        Hell, I bet it you so chose you could buy a Microsoft Bluetooth keyboard and use it with an iPad.

        That Apple doesn't ship it with a keyboard doesn't mean you're being denied the ability to use one.

        • But are they low quality chicklet style keyboards? Those are not easy to type a lot with. Currently I use a das keyboard which comes in usb cable version only, last I checked.
  • Amazing how consumers ultimately decide what companies will and will not create.
  • Money (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Luthair ( 847766 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @12:27PM (#50940529)
    From Apple's perspective why sell one device when you can sell two.
    • my thoughts exactly. Apple is all about avoiding product cannibalization. Thus the super price tag and performance disparities on the Mac Pro vs iMacs, iPad/Mini vs iPad Pro, MacBook Air vs MacBook pro 13, MacBook Pro 13 vs MacBook Pro 15, and even MacBook Pro 15 vs MacBook Pro 15 with dedicated graphics. The only notable exception is the iPhones standard and plus, but hey, they still do the price disparity on the amazing price differences for storage capacity on those.
  • I myself am interested in a full workstation OS (Linux-MATE would be my preference, but I could live with Mac OS X) on a tablet that can be augmented with a kickstand keyboard. Unfortunately, there's nothing for me except Surface lines, which I refuse to buy because I am boycotting Microsoft. I do all of my work in LibreOffice, so a tablet with iOS and Android are not options (and since the mobile versions of WPS Office and MS Office are crippled pieces of shit, I would imagine LO wouldn't be of much use, e
  • At least Microsoft didn't double down with the RT strategy and quickly threw it in the dustbin.

  • He has it totally backwards (on purpose). Of course running OSX on an iPad is a bad idea. What would be far more useful is a Macbook with a touchscreen (AKA welcome to the 21st century Macbook!) that can run iOS apps in addition to OSX apps.

  • I sense Don Norman's influence here. I agree with Cook, and I'm not really much of an Apple fan. There's nothing wrong with avoiding the, (as I see it), trap of trying to be everything to everyone. This might be an old PARC mentality, but I think that purpose driven devices with shared intelligence and data sources is a really smart way to see the future of information tech. The real hurdle is getting everyone to agree on how those devices should communicate. My Motorola 360, for example, is woefully

  • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

    Now bring back the Fucking 17" Macbook Pro.

    Stupidest thing to remove from their lineup in decades.

  • How many times has Apple said they wouldn't ever do something and then later done it? Apple says they'd never do something all the time so I wouldn't put much stock in such statements. Jobs was famous for doing that.

    The fact is that it makes a ton of economic sense to have iOS and OS X converge into a single operating system. Right now we aren't at a place where that makes sense yet (see Microsoft) but I can't really see Apple keeping two operating systems indefinitely. Apple, Google and Microsoft are a

  • When a company/politician claims they will not do something... it means they will. If not, consider all the times that apple has said they had no plans for a phone/tablet/pen computing/etc, only to do it a few months/years later. It just means they are not capable of doing it now, but they will eventually. So obvious....
  • by exabrial ( 818005 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @02:13PM (#50941523)
    Just bought a MacBook, because OSX is the ultimate Unix development platform. But I also had to buy a Gig-E dongle, and if you buy a MacBook Air, you have to buy a USB-C dongle, and an Ethernet Dongle, and none of your thunderbolt accessories work anymore.

    The dudes at the Apple store say, "everything will be wireless eventually" well that's a great theory, but 1) It's not wireless right now 2) Even if it were, in a high density office environment, there is simply not enough wireless spectrum allocated in the USA for 200 users in a 35,000 ft^2 space to have a Gig-E wireless connection.

    So stop the stupidity. Gig-E ports should be standard on your "Pro" models. Consumer or Home models, I understand the philosophy, but not on the Pro.
  • What that would wind up doing is product cannibalization - Apple doesn't want to lose market share on tablets nor the premium ultra portable notebook (which they pretty much have on both) by doing a more expensive product that will induce the buyer on second thoughts, and making him skip that day-1 urge to get in line and buy the next iThingie.
  • the actual quote (Score:4, Insightful)

    by slashmydots ( 2189826 ) on Monday November 16, 2015 @02:34PM (#50941787)
    "We feel strongly that nobody will sell us an efficient x86 CPU because we're such unfair, lying, backstabbing assholes to our hardware vendors."

"Paul Lynde to block..." -- a contestant on "Hollywood Squares"

Working...