Apple's Plans For Your DNA 101
An anonymous reader writes: MIT's Technology Review breaks news that Apple is working with scientists to create apps that collect and evaluate users' DNA. "The apps are based on ResearchKit, a software platform Apple introduced in March that helps hospitals or scientists run medical studies on iPhones by collecting data from the devices' sensors or through surveys." A source says Apple's plan is to enable users to easily share their DNA information with medical workers and researchers performing studies. "To join one of the studies, a person would agree to have a gene test carried out—for instance, by returning a "spit kit" to a laboratory approved by Apple. The first such labs are said to be the advanced gene-sequencing centers operated by UCSF and Mount Sinai."
EULA (Score:3)
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I remember a south park episode like this and the human caterpillar...
YOU NEED TO READ THE EULA. apple will do crazy stuff to you if you don't...
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I remember a south park episode like this and the human caterpillar...
YOU NEED TO READ THE EULA. apple will do crazy stuff to you if you don't...
The episode where APPLE forced people in some anal stuff? (hey, don't go crazy now, i am not a bigot, i just READ THE EULA)
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South Park mocking Apple [youtube.com]
I once read something wise: "To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy"!
Thank you Sir, let that be a lesson to every one: READ THE FUCKING EULA.
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Actually, it should be enough that most people don't read the entire EULA. That should serve as a precedent that the EULAs are unenforceable. It's just common knowledge that few if any people who click through them read the entire thing. That should be enough to invalidate them.
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Apples and oranges (Score:2)
In the future the human race will be divided into Apples and oranges. The masses will be the oranges, while the Apples will be the genetically sequenced elite with access to not just the latest medical technology but the biometric clearance to become part of the ruling technocratic class.
*sigh* (Score:1)
What can I say?
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I say "Sorry...but NO".
I mean, it is bad enough I gave them a CC number way back when to connect to the iTunes store (even though I've NEVER bought a song through them, nor an app)....but that's quite enough information on me.
I don't plan to give any DNA to anyone for the foreseeable future.
Both the government and private companies have WAY too much information on me to begin with...I'm not voluntarily going to give them more, especially on this level.
Android Play doesn't need a CC (Score:3)
Last time I set it up, Android Play didn't need a CC. (Or maybe I set one up and then deleted it to make sure I never accidentally bought anything.)
I am, however, starting to consider getting a "throwaway CC" like I use throwaway email addresses. Enough places want a CC, and I would be nice to have an account where I know that ANY charges on it are unwanted (and should be challenged/reversed).
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So our understanding of the human genome... (Score:2, Funny)
...will be based on a database containing only rich hipsters?
How about (Score:1)
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Yeah it'll be strange. Women will run around with "JUICY" emblazoned across their watches, and men will be wandering up to them "Hey baby, you have nice genes" "How dare you!"
Hacking her watch to check out her genes may end up being considered a form of rape.
Or nah, we'll continue our present course of having the perfunctory pair of kids as we edge close to our 40s and end our reproductive years.
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The guy with a mac.com email address nay-saying the cautious. Funny.
So what? It seems almost like a person would be able to not have their DNA collected by not having their DNA collected. GO figure My guess is that people who want ot have their pulse constantly monitored, and all the other wonky things the Apple watch does, won't mind, and their is an opt out program called Don't Buy the Goddamned Watch.
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"...and their is an opt out program called Don't Buy the Goddamned Watch."
And if you don't want phones tracking your location then don't get a mobile phone. And if you don't want the police scanning your license plate then don't get a car.
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"...and their is an opt out program called Don't Buy the Goddamned Watch."
And if you don't want phones tracking your location then don't get a mobile phone. And if you don't want the police scanning your license plate then don't get a car.
Catching on are ya?.
Then buy a homestead in Idaho, stash your guns and ammo, pray to Jesus, and if God smiles on you, you'll make it past the apocalypse, which will happen any day now, right?
Tell me of a cellular phone system that doesn't track you. It's inherent in the design, and will not ever work without knowing your location. No GPS needed. Only way it doesn't know you location is turned off and in a metal box, or completely outside of cell phone coverage.
And what on earth are you even using a
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And they forget that back in 1200 communities were small and EVERYBODY around you knew all about you.
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The guy with a mac.com email address nay-saying the cautious. Funny.
...and the ANONYMOUS COWARD using an ad hominem attack against them, based on User information. Funnier.
Re:I'm sure no one will misconstrue this at all... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, until insurance companies and governments start demanding access to it.
You don't need to be much of a conspiracy nut to realize the potential for privacy invasion and abuse of this data is absolutely staggering.
There simply are way too few legal controls on how this stuff is used to safely make it as commonplace as that.
Essentially, corporations and the government will have massive databases of the DNA of pretty much everybody ... and it will be used to deny you service, in criminal proceedings because they can demand it, and who knows what else.
DNA samples on an iPhone is a hell of a way to get the fully distopian future and Big Brother .. because you can bet your ass that secret warrants will be used to force companies to hand this stuff over and then have it collated into one big giant database.
I don't care if it's Apple, Microsoft, Google, or anybody else ... this is a creepy idea which will have enormous implications to society.
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This was my thoughts as well...
So you have a higher probability of getting this disease due to genes that we don't really understand yet... well the policy that covers that is more expensive or we refuse to cover you.
How bout we sell you a policy that just covers what you are predisposed for to save some money? Sorry, broken legs are not included in your policy...
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Sure, until insurance companies and governments start demanding access to it.
That's certainly something worth worrying about (it would really piss me off, that's for sure), but how does this make it significantly more likely? Who are they going to be demanding access from? The researchers? That's a huge no-no. People who happen to own iPhones with whatever accessory allows for DNA testing? How would they know?
No, the thing to worry about there is just that the general increase in ease of DNA testing and sequencing will lead to insurance companies deciding they need to have the genom
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lets ignore the fact that network and system security is a total fucking JOKE on compute devices these days.
wait, lets NOT ignore that. in fact, its more important than the 'good use' cases.
if there's any chance my med history info gets out to the wrong people (ie, most people are the wrong people) then this should never even be prototyped, much less implemented.
"hey, there's a car crash up ahead! should we just keep driving and hope we can get thru or do we go around it and avoid it?"
this is a car crash
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Sure, until insurance companies and governments start demanding access to it.
That's certainly something worth worrying about (it would really piss me off, that's for sure), but how does this make it significantly more likely?
Because it is creating what amounts to a massive DNA database. Once that is done, it is essentially inevitable that the data will be sued by insurance companies, governments, advertising agencies, hackers, and other ne'er-do-wells. This is a disaster in the making.
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No, the thing to worry about there is just that the general increase in ease of DNA testing and sequencing will lead to insurance companies deciding they need to have the genomes of all their insured on file.
But, at least in the U.S., now that we have the ACA (a/k/a ObamaCare), there is less incentive for individualized "risk profiling" by insurance carriers, since things like "pre-existing conditions" can no longer be used to deny, nor "adjust" rates or coverage.
And speaking as a (now-insured) Diabetic who could not purchase private insurance under any reasonable circumstances under the "old system", because there was a chance I might actually need it, and for all its faults, I for one am happy to have the A
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Hear hear :-)
Dan Aris
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Sure, until insurance companies and governments start demanding access to it.
You don't need to be much of a conspiracy nut to realize the potential for privacy invasion and abuse of this data is absolutely staggering.
All part of the FEMA Death camp, black helicopter, chemtrail poisoned, gun stealin', Jack booted thugs, No Moon Landing, Ancient aliens, Mayan apocolypse, Roswell alien spaceships, Kenyan president, 666 tattooed on your forehead, doomsday preppers, new world order
It is always in Governments best interest to grind it's citizens under their hobnailed heels as much as possible. Makes the world run better don't you think?
I have a newsletter. And T shirts.
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Police forces have been trying and trying and trying for ages to get more people in the DNA database. There was a huge fight over this in England because police were conducting stop-and-frisks and then demanding DNA. The police have also tried "DNA for a dollar" approaches and offered money if you just turn over your DNA. Whatever it is this data seems to be insanely valuable to the police and we're not sure why.
If someone ever mentions "oh yeah, I hear Apple has some of that" you can bet they're going to t
Re:I'm sure no one will misconstrue this at all... (Score:5, Informative)
1) The potential for abuse and discrimination in employment and insurance is immense. Good luck proving that you were discriminated against. It is really hard to prove biases and judgments based on stereotypes. The GINA Act that the Americans seem to think will protect them, is full of loop holes. For example, GINA does not cover life insurance, auto insurance and a few other types. It only covers health insurance. Good luck proving discrimination even in case of the health insurance.
2) I see that most common people (even the otherwise smart ones not trained in genetics) seem to have a lot of trouble understanding the nature of genetic data, the interactions of variations, and its multiple functional interpretations. If a child in school is found out to have a SNP that according to even an unvalidated/dubious study, renders a 'proclivity to aggression', or 'a tendency to depression', or 'lowers learning abilities by x%', he/she will be discriminated against. Doesn't matter if he has ten other redeeming SNPs that nullify the effect, or even makes it better. Doesn't matter that there are complex epigenetic, metabolic and even microbiomic (from our gut microbes) interactions. There are unambiguous genotypes, but those are far and few compared to the vast ocean of genetic variation. And if a child has any supposed 'suicidal' variation, that's even more trouble for him.
As a society we are far away from being mature about genetic variation. Hell, we haven't even accepted our racial differences. Some day we will all grow up collectively to handle our diversity. Just like we have learned to ignore photos on facebook profiles. But with genetic data which is immutable throughout our lives, I don't see that day being anywhere near.
I have seen a couple of pompous types at genomics conferences who were bragging that they put up their data and their kids' data online. It's just stupid. Even apple, with all their supposed stress on security and privacy, I cannot trust. I say this as an iPhone and iPad user.
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This. As a genomics researcher, I feel scared at the number of ways this data can be abused and misused.
1) The potential for abuse and discrimination in employment and insurance is immense. Good luck proving that you were discriminated against. It is really hard to prove biases and judgments based on stereotypes. The GINA Act that the Americans seem to think will protect them, is full of loop holes. For example, GINA does not cover life insurance, auto insurance and a few other types. It only covers health insurance. Good luck proving discrimination even in case of the health insurance.
2) I see that most common people (even the otherwise smart ones not trained in genetics) seem to have a lot of trouble understanding the nature of genetic data, the interactions of variations, and its multiple functional interpretations. If a child in school is found out to have a SNP that according to even an unvalidated/dubious study, renders a 'proclivity to aggression', or 'a tendency to depression', or 'lowers learning abilities by x%', he/she will be discriminated against. Doesn't matter if he has ten other redeeming SNPs that nullify the effect, or even makes it better. Doesn't matter that there are complex epigenetic, metabolic and even microbiomic (from our gut microbes) interactions. There are unambiguous genotypes, but those are far and few compared to the vast ocean of genetic variation. And if a child has any supposed 'suicidal' variation, that's even more trouble for him.
As a society we are far away from being mature about genetic variation. Hell, we haven't even accepted our racial differences. Some day we will all grow up collectively to handle our diversity. Just like we have learned to ignore photos on facebook profiles. But with genetic data which is immutable throughout our lives, I don't see that day being anywhere near.
I have seen a couple of pompous types at genomics conferences who were bragging that they put up their data and their kids' data online. It's just stupid. Even apple, with all their supposed stress on security and privacy, I cannot trust. I say this as an iPhone and iPad user.
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So you mean to say just by getting their sequence data you will be able to save people? We are so far away from that even now, that I won't even bother arguing with you on that point. For an average person the benefits of getting sequenced and storing their data on the cloud today (and for many more years) are simply not worth the risks mentioned by the GP. Unless you are a cancer patient with your life on the line.
Coming to your first argument. Just because you can take the trouble and find the information
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I'll never forget the line from Gattaca.
"I belonged to a new underclass, no longer determined by social status or the color of your skin. No, we now have discrimination down to a science."
The movie is 18 years old now, and we are closing in on Andrew Niccol's idea faster than I would like.
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Sure, until insurance companies and governments start demanding access to it.
You don't need to be much of a conspiracy nut to realize the potential for privacy invasion and abuse of this data is absolutely staggering.
Gee, and yet you complain about a voluntary option instead of all the crap Googles knows about you just by scanning through the shit of people who know you. I present you: the one-eye-blind Paranoid!
Re:I'm sure no one will misconstrue this at all... (Score:5, Insightful)
They aren't taking the DNA sample FROM the iPhone. You are mailing a sample of DNA to some lab which will link your SNP profile [wikipedia.org] with your iTunes ID number.
Now, think of this for a minute. The ability to associate SNPs with buying proclivities. An "Apple gene", if you will.
Now folks, this is a marketing executives wet dream complete with hookers and blow.
It's not taking a DNA sample on the iPhone (Score:2)
You can't actually take the sample on the phone - the idea is that you can get your DNA sampled, then the results get stored on your phone - which you can if you wish share that anyone who would like to have it after that, if you choose.
So it's pretty close in terms of value (because if a lot of people do this a lot of researchers could get quick access to DNA data instead of having to do it once per test). But it's not as widespread as direct collection would be.
I don't think I'd want my phone actually be
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You can't actually take the sample on the phone
I dunno. I'll bet you could convince a hell of a lot of people to spit on their phone, then mail it off to Apple.
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Hey man, it's Android that's trying to get people to lick phones with the version names.
What's the big deal.... (Score:5, Funny)
I give out my DNA all the time. As long as I don't have to pay child support, I am not concerned.
Gattaca? (Score:2)
I can't wait for this info to wind up, either due to hackers, or other means in a public database:
1: Insurance companies will love it -- they now have more reasons to hike premiums or drop people.
2: It will be used by some companies as yet another quiet filter, ensuring some people's resumes always hit the round file.
3: It will enable Gattaca-like discrimination.
4: It will be used by some governments for mass arrests and genocide, similar to countries in the Middle East currently using DNA to test poten
Sure... (Score:3)
because what could possibly go wrong, the info could never ever be mis-used or stolen.....
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I don't blame apple for wanting to do this.
but I DO blame us, the consumers, for falling for every god damned privacy-invading scheme conceivable.
its like people are going out of their way to ruin their own lives and become part of the surveillance state.
"hey, it has some glass that you can press on. how cool is that? lets fully trust our lives to this new god of ours."
(facepalm times ten to the facefalm exponent)
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But you kind of do have to blame them. Apple is more like a cult than a company, and cult followers do what the cult leader tells them without even thinking about it.
Suddenly other companies see big righ Apple doing it, and they want to do it too, it just snowballs....
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I don't blame apple for wanting to do this.
but I DO blame us, the consumers, for falling for every god damned privacy-invading scheme conceivable.
I blame both. This is such an obviously terrible idea that I blame Apple for not killing it as soon as the first person uttered it in the meeting. It shows a reckless disregard for their customers.
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The plan is to misuse it. Apple don't do DNA analysis themselves, they sell the data to other companies who use it to offer you services and connect it to other marketing data. Getting your DNA checked for inherited diseases? Time to spam you with adverts for baby goods on every site you visit.
Dating App (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, man, that would make for an awesome dating app! Swipe right, and it renders your potential children.
HIPAA violation (Score:1)
This sounds like a HIPAA violation and apple may be for a big issue.
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Very unlikely. HIPAA only applies to specific entities. Apple is not one of those entities.
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But the FDA did smack down 23andMe pretty hard for making medical claims based on SNP profiling.* While HIPPA isn't the right regulatory regime here, the FDA definitely is. 23andMe tried the Uber approach to flaunting regulations and found that when actual human health is involved, "trust us" doesn't cut it.
-Chris
*Can we please stop calling what these companies are doing "DNA sequencing"? It's not and never has been. It's just looking for specific, known markers in your genome. Sequencing is actually gettin
Oh crap (Score:3)
I bet they will patent all our genomes and then we'll be screwed: of course you can have children without paying us, as long as they are not rectangular with rounded corners and do not contain these 20 amino-acids in our list...
iWatch (Score:2)
The bite is for education (Score:2, Troll)
I already know what Tim Cook wants to do with my DNA.
Apple thinking ahead? (Score:3)
The slow boiling frog... (Score:2)
... I think the water temp just crept up a few more degrees. And the frogs just keep smiling.
I got into programming just as the web was really taking off (~25 yrs ago maybe), and I had such high hopes of what it would bring 'regular' people. Now, it's filled with ads, trolls, extreme corporatism, the commonditization of 'us' (our habits, our data, our everything), and just plain old crap (Kartrashians etc).
I think social media has turned us into oh-so-willing data givers, we're just happy to share freaking
Great... (Score:1)
Passcode (Score:2)
I might even buy the idevice if I get to spit on it to login
Now we know what the debug port is really for! (Score:1)
Obviously, the debug port is so that their new wrist strap can take skin samples and sequence your DNA right in the strap/watch!
It adds a new "layer" of "security" as well. :D
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What in the world does this company take me for?
An average person.
How About A Spit Statue (Score:1)
A statue of Steve Jobs with a wash mechanism to rinse off, contain and label each spit sample.
I know plenty of people who'd line up for it.
Do they want urine samples, too?
Yeah... (Score:2)
current technology (Score:2)
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