China Bans iPad, MacBook Pro, Other Apple Products For Government Use 115
MojoKid (1002251) writes "China seems to be on a mission to isolate itself from the world, at least in terms of technology. After banning Windows 8 on government PCs and raiding several of Microsoft's offices in China as part of an anti-trust investigation, Chinese officials have now prohibited purchase of several Apple products for government use. The list of banned Apple products include the iPad, iPad Mini, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and half a dozen other items, all of which were left off of a final government procurement list distributed in July. This is a potentially big hit to Apple, which generated around 16 percent of its $37.4 billion in revenue last quarter from China. Apple saw its iPad sales jump 51 percent and Mac sales boosted 39 percent in China."
Seriously can you blame them (Score:5, Insightful)
Blame the NSA
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If you're going to troll can you at least try? The point is to piss people off, not make them feel sorry for you.
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Re:Seriously can you blame them (Score:5, Insightful)
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How can anyone trust hardware and software coming from the states?
How? If and only if that software is open source from bottom to top, including being able to build and install it with an open source toolchain.
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Apple, designed in Israel, for the NSA with a California packaging, since Oct, 2011.
Hi Tim!
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Re:Seriously can you blame them (Score:4, Informative)
So far we know of exactly one attempt to do that to the linux kernel [lwn.net].
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The NSA uses hardware bugs, so going fully open source on software and firmware won't help.
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The NSA uses hardware bugs, so going fully open source on software and firmware won't help.
That's a rather black and white claim. Which hardware bugs did you have in mind exactly, and what makes you think an open software stack won't help flush them out?
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Having seen plenty of code from Asia, I'll take code from the United States any day. The worst code I have ever dealt with all came from China and Taiwan. The worst code I saw came from this Chinese company: http://www.zdnet.com/hack-in-t... [zdnet.com]
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Re:Seriously can you blame them (Score:5, Insightful)
They aren't banning apple products; just not buying them for government work. It would be akin to federal/state/local governments saying that all government owned vehicles have to be made by a domestic supplier. (that does happen doesn't it?)
they are made in china (Score:2)
foxcon assembles these in china
Re:Seriously can you blame them (Score:5, Informative)
sort of the US banning Chinese products from government http://techonomy.com/2013/04/h... [techonomy.com]
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I don't necessarily have a problem with tariffs or bans or the like, if the relevant party has a legitimate reason. What I object to is pretending that it's "free trade" when it's not. China subsidizes a large amount of its industry, in order to undercut American manufacturing. That's about the farthest thing from free trade their is.
Are there subsidies and the like on the American side? Sure. No honest person would deny it. But the sc
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...you can't honestly call it "free trade" if one country's products are banned.
Would that country be the Republic of Apple by any chance?
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Like US free trade.
Iran? Syria? Ukraine? Let the MARKET solve that! Supporting sanctions is like French-kissing Karl Marx!
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The US should respond instantly by banning the purchase of Huawei hardware for use in government installations. That will teach them a lesson they won't forget fast!
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HUAWEI
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Times have changed
Our politicians are getting worse
They won't obey liberty and freedom
They just want to litigate and sue!
Should we blame the government?
Or blame society?
Or should we blame the images on TV?
No, blame NSA!
Blame NSA!
(etc)
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Blame the NSA
No, blame the cash management finance department. China does not want local currency leaving the country. Stop the bleeding.
If Apple and Google had headquarters in China, we might have seen a different decision taken.
we will just use an knock off made at the same fat (Score:5, Interesting)
we will just use an knock off made at the same factory as your own stuff.
This is the price you pay... (Score:5, Insightful)
...for cooperating with the Machiavellian pro-war, pro-surveillance, pro-torture old boy's club in the federal bureaucracy.
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Totally true -- but it's probably less than the price they'd pay for not co-operating.
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are you referring to China?
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"Isolating" by choosing open source? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I also remember them moving away from Intel-based stuff in general, in favor of MIPS that they can design and build everything themselves.
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I hope not. The Longsoon's are about the only desktop MIPS processor still around - and I remember seeing they were having a set of updates to the lineup. There is no reason they couldn't be brought up to speed.
FWIW, I'd buy one of their laptops if they were sold stateside (instead, I'll just keep playing with my old SGI equipment).
Desktop is what you make it of (Score:2)
*shrug* Samsung Electronics has some tempting little eight-ARMed chips that would feel great on a Mini-ITX motherboard. Still not FOSS, but if that's really important to you, there's lowRISC (Berkeley RISC-V including development toolchain and Linux image) and just now Parallax's Propeller [parallax.com] for your I/O needs...
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The FOSS thing isn't quite so important to me - I just like MIPS a lot more then I like ARM.
Re:"Isolating" by choosing open source? (Score:5, Insightful)
Presumably they are choosing not to get screwed by NSA, through proxies such as Apple and MS. But otherwise I agree entirely.
I wish headlines such as
China seems to be on a mission to isolate itself from the world, at least in terms of technology.
Would more often be accompanied by its root cause, something along the lines of
America seems to be on a mission to antagonize the rest of the world, not least in terms of technology.
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When the government pushes particular products, the education is forced to follow suit and industry then complies. So not isolationist at all but setting the pace. This will end up proving problematic for both M$ and Apple as it spreads throughout the China supply and procurement channel and inevitably influences the export channel. M$ has lots of other directions to go in but Apple is a marketing company pushing an overpriced fashion fad, this sort of thing can have a real impact on that 'marketing cache'
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Not sure how much it makes sense to ban Apple, then, as opposed to Microsoft, considering that at least a portion of Apple products are open source [apple.com]
You may have been asleep for the past 20 years (Score:1)
but, hi, there's something called Android that's well over 90% permissively licensed.
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Android is a linux distribution put together by Google, with Google extensions and optimizations. Not sure with that has to do with the argument that Microsoft is less open source than Apple and was not "banned" from government procurement, therefore the motivation for China's action is probably not open sourc-y-ness.
Huwaei (Score:1)
It isn't really that interesting when you consider the snowden leaks and our turn about with huwaei and zte in regards to US government infrastructure.
Somebody wants some thing (Score:2)
Nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would they want to isolate themselves from the world? They may be looking to increase security (with the whole NSA mess, I wouldn't blame them) or trying to cut a better deal with Apple. There may be other rational reasons too.
Re:Nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed. The US refused to purchase equipment from Chinese technology companies because of security concerns. Now the tables have turned and we mock them for being isolationists?
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China is just copying USA like they always do. ;) [grin]
Self-awareness (Score:3)
is anti-American. Stop that.
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I expect you're right... but actions like this could very well cause companies like Apple and Microsoft to start exploring other manufacturing options away from Foxconn.
I know the camera makers and har drive manufacturers already have a significant presence in Thailand, so I can't imagine it would take much more than a willingness to invest sufficient capital in order to move iPhone manufacturing there.
Re:Nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple and Microsoft (and most other corporations) pick manufacturing locations based on price and quality. They choose China because it offers the lowest cost and good quality. They aren't going to pick up and move (even if they could find another capable manufacturer) for political reasons.
China is taking this step not to isolate themselves from the world but to isolate themselves from the NSA.
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Recall GODSURGE, IRONCHEF, IRATEMONKEY, SOMBERKNAVE, VALIDATOR, OLYMPUS, COTTONMOUTH via ANT.
http://cryptome.org/2014/01/ns... [cryptome.org]
If you like a phone like device you have COTTONMOUTH, CANDYWIRE with some DROPOUTJEEP, TOTEGHOSTLY.
Its not just the hardware as shipped or altered during shipment. Staff turn off a cell phone at a site and then turn it on 'outside' again - even that is intere
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Don't forget CEILINGCAT.
Fatal flaw: China can't adapt (Score:5, Interesting)
China has always been controlled from the center. In past eras, China has had technological and exploration advantages over the West that were wiped out by intrusion and isolation commanded from China's locus of concentrated power - whether via emperors, or the current regime.
Long run (maybe, even near-long-term) this does not bode well for China's prospects, because when one is sealed off from outside ideas and innovation, one will ultimately fall behind and adapt only in suboptimal ways. What results is a waste of social and intellectual capital.
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Long run (maybe, even near-long-term) this does not bode well for China's prospects, because when one is sealed off from outside ideas and innovation, one will ultimately fall behind and adapt only in suboptimal ways. What results is a waste of social and intellectual capital.
China is only refusing to buy some foreign products. There is no policy of isolation. I imagine there will still be a great deal of reverse engineering and other data gathering activities (interpret that how you wish). So, the idea is to negatively impact competitors financially while at the same time benefiting from their innovations.
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you have no idea of what you are talking about. Refusing to use Apple or Microsoft product for Government use has nothing to do with isolation.
Its a wise move and any country who doesnt lick the a$$ of the US should do the same ASAP
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Nice talking, only problem is it doesn't mean a thing. It is the US that is increasingly alienating everyone else in the globe, while still burying the heads in the sand and pretending they run the show. You are the ones that should worry about isolation, and better start to worry about that FAST.
Fatal flaw: China can't adapt (Score:5, Insightful)
China has always been controlled from the center. In past eras, China has had technological and exploration advantages over the West that were wiped out by intrusion and isolation commanded from China's locus of concentrated power - whether via emperors, or the current regime.
Long run (maybe, even near-long-term) this does not bode well for China's prospects, because when one is sealed off from outside ideas and innovation, one will ultimately fall behind and adapt only in suboptimal ways. What results is a waste of social and intellectual capital.
That makes no sense. China just banned its government from using Apple products, not Apple products in general. It hasn't sealed itself from outside ideas and innovations at all. Chinese citizens can still buy iPads and iPhones so Chinese smartphone manufactures still has to compete.
Another reason why this may have happened that most people probably wouldn't think about is that this might be a move to fight corruption. iPads and iPhones have been vastly popular as "gifts" within the government. Banning the government from purchasing them as gifts would help to fight some of the corruption problem they're having.
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Also I thought that on Slashdot we blame Apple for making expensive crap anyway, at which point not buying them would be wise buying policies for a government...
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China has always been controlled from the center. In past eras, China has had technological and exploration advantages over the West that were wiped out by intrusion and isolation commanded from China's locus of concentrated power - whether via emperors, or the current regime.
Long run (maybe, even near-long-term) this does not bode well for China's prospects, because when one is sealed off from outside ideas and innovation, one will ultimately fall behind and adapt only in suboptimal ways. What results is a waste of social and intellectual capital.
Yes, the good old myths that I used to read about in the 70s, 80s, 90s, ... - and which have been promoted ever since the days of the British Empire. It's a load of nonsense, basically; racism dressed up with cheap self-flattery: 'Us in the West are much better because of "freedom" or "democracy" or whatever'.
History shows us that China, like all other, great civilisations go through periods of progress and stagnation. Right now they are progressing at a staggering pace, while we are beginning to lag behind
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Authoritarianism has its perks.
Is it a big hit to Apple's bottom line? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since this only affects government purchases, we'd have to know whether a significant part of last quarter's Chinese sales involved government entities purchasing these products.
I'd expect government sales - especially to China - aren't a huge part of Apple's business.
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Re:Is it a big hit to Apple's bottom line? (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine you can't bring apple devices into your local government-operated buildings like library or DMV.
All you can do is imagine that since it's not what China did. They banned government procurement of those devices.
Since when have Chinese been great followers of government rules anyway?
Ripe for Linux in china...or new ChinaOS (Score:2)
So lets get this right...China are investigating Microsoft for antitrust, and outright banning of Apple. Time is right and MIPS64 is looking ever so attractive.
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You mean the Chinese will start pirating Linux next?
The only way to get them to use Linux is to tell them it costs something.
Illegally connect and use RedHat repos?
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So lets get this right...China are investigating Microsoft for antitrust, and outright banning of Apple. Time is right and MIPS64 is looking ever so attractive.
You got that wrong. Some Apple products cannot be purchased for government use. All the Chinese people are free to buy iPhones, iPads and Macs for their own private use, or for business use. Just not inside the government. Well, the German government is said to be looking at mechanical typewriters for some purposes...
*Door opens* (Score:1)
In other news... (Score:2)
...productivity in Chinese government offices rise sharply.
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Good thing they aren't Ruby devs working out of coffee shops. This move would cripple them.
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While I'm inclined to believe that Apple's products are unlikely to be secure against the level of hacking that a state actor could afford to level, your assertion makes the assumption that China doesn't want to be able to hack the computers of government employees....
Isolate? ... No .. (Score:3)
"China seems to be on a mission to isolate itself from the world, at least in terms of technology."
They didn't say that. They said they don't want GUBMINT to use APPLE stuff. That doesn't shut down China's entire technology capability.
There are other people in China.
Article is false and misleading (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Article is false and misleading (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is Slashdot. A false and misleading article is as good as the truth.
As good as, HUH it's better.
more clicks.
Why? (Score:2)
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That would be like the US government banning GM cars.
The efficiency and reliability of the US Government fleet would increase whilst costs reduce?
Well if they go all Microsoft (Score:1)
I'm sure government purchases are a small fraction (Score:2)
I'm sure government purchases are a small fraction of the total purchased by the general public.
There are many government agencies around the world which haven't approved Apple, Microsoft, Blackberry, or other particular products for their purchase lists. Government purchases are just a nice feather in the cap for most companies. They really could care less, other than some people amongst the general public who think government purchase approval is some sort of "security approval" for a device.
They w
The xiaomi story hasn't even scrolled off the page (Score:2)
Xiaomi top seller in China [slashdot.org]
I'm not saying it's 100% Xiaomi, but I'm sure it's somewhat related. Not even "hey we need to have Xiaomi #1" as much as "we need to have local tech #1".
"China seems to be on a mission to isolate itself (Score:1)
"China seems to be on a mission to isolate itself from the NSA, at least in terms of technology. FTFY ;-)