Australian Consumer Watchdog Sues Apple Over iPad Marketing 193
Fluffeh writes "Australia's competition regulator will today take iconic technology giant Apple to court for advertising its new iPad tablet as featuring '4G' speeds — which are not supported on Australian telecommunications networks. One of the key features of the new iPad is support for 4G speeds, however, the 4G speeds which the new iPad supports will not be available in Australia, with Apple's technical specifications page only listing it as supporting the 700Mhz and 2100Mhz spectrum bands, neither of which are being used by Australian telcos to provide 4G services. The case may be a bit shaky, though, as Apple does state in the fine print: '4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US; and on Bell, Rogers and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details.'"
IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:3, Interesting)
It's like the release of the Ipone 4GS in the US -- the ads focused on SIRI, but when people complain, Apple then says "It's BETA". That's misleading and frankly dishonest, but probably legal in the USA.
This appears to be just the same: advertise 4G, and in the small print, point out that you will probably never get 4G. It's dishonest.
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Informative)
This appears to be just the same: advertise 4G, and in the small print, point out that you will probably never get 4G. It's dishonest.
Moreover outright dishonesty is not an element the ACCC needs to prove. The claim need not even be false, it need only be misleading
The relevant provision in the new Australian Consumer Law which replaces the old s52 Trade Practices Act 1974 and which the legislature in its inimitable wisdom has chosen to bury in Schedule 2 to the Competition and Consumer Act 2010, reads:
18 (1). A person must not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive.
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Actually, that would make things worse, as LTE is what doesn't work.
Now, I don't know the Australian market, so I don't know if there are as many non-LTE (i.e., HSPA+) phones being marketed as "4G" ("faux G") phones. I do know a large number of 4G Andorid phones are really just "4G" phones (T-Mobile was one of them advertising 4G early on, but both AT&T and T-mo do it. Hell, didn't the iPhone get an update that changed
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Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh, it's US which runs on different bands to the rest of the world.
Europe and Asia are using Australia's bands.
While Telstra is the only one with a 4G network right now, Optus is launching one in a month and Vodafone is soon to follow.
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Uh, it's US which runs on different bands to the rest of the world.
Europe and Asia are using Australia's bands.
While Telstra is the only one with a 4G network right now, Optus is launching one in a month and Vodafone is soon to follow.
Vivid Wireless has run a WiMax network in Australia for over a year. But realistically it's a joke. You get better speeds using Telstra's HSPA+ network.
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Really, Between the hours of 3 PM and 11 PM the speed was unusable. That's if it would stay connected for more then 5 minutes. Telstra's Next G was reliable, faster and hand lower latency. I was glad when I moved and could get ADSL (11 months with Internode, not one problem).
I have one customer using Vivid as a backup and what a nightmare that has been. They push updates to the routers without telling anyone, the update br
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Insightful)
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Nobody is "clinging" to analogue TV. Analogue TV is on track for shutdown in June, just as it always has been.
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You can make an argument that's a good explanation of why 4G isn't available in Australia. However, if the summary is accurate (RTFA? This is Slashdot!), Apple should get smacked down hard for their ads.
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Informative)
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The more accurate statement is specific Apple advertising for a product they are selling is inaccurate.
The point to be careful about, is every single ad must be accurate, not just the web site targeted at Australian users, no just major press releases, not just a particular mailing drop, but every ad via every source, be it television, radio, letter box drop, magazine and, newspaper.
Penalties should be applied for all corporate deceit. For the ACCC to initiate a case generally all that is required is a
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No.
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Is it false advertising to sell a hair-dryer designed for 110v US power in Australia knowing full well that it won't work properly in Australia?
If the iPad doesn't work on Australia's 4G networks, it should not be sold as as 4G capable just because it can work in the US.
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Except for the fact that it's advertised right on the package that in Australia, only 3G speeds will be available. The information is listed on the outside of the box above the model number according to iFixit:
http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/Kdi1XOouIp1VDAoN.medium [ifixit.net]
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-3-4G-Teardown/8277/1 [ifixit.com]
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Except it's a single retailer that puts those stickers on, and "big sticker you see after you bought the gadget" barely counts as advertised when compared with "proudly presented on apple.com.au with tiny footnote saying (only in US and Canada)".
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:4, Informative)
Typical bloody city dweller.
This luddite, like a lot of luddites in this country is clinging on to analog TV because we do not and will not have a digital broadcast in our area. We are going to have to go to satellite if we want to continue to receive free-to-air.
I am not sure why Telstra is responsible for the frequencies used to broadcast analog TV, but am happy to be enlightened.
As an aside I can't really claim to be clinging on to analog - I have a TV aerial I set up for the Australian Open or football championships, but otherwise I am happy streaming video via mobile, which works quite nicely thanks very much.
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Telstra aren't responsible for the frequencies broadcasting analog TV, nice way to mis-read what I said. Telstra *are* responsible for setting up a "4G" network on a frequency which is different to 4G elsewhere...
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As I understand it, only UHF channels 52-68 are being repurposed for LTE networks.
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Funny)
I make a clear distinction between what is legal and what is ethical. Advertising a a 4G capability that none of the buyers will ever be able to use unless they travel abroad and then buy service is unethical. Telstra may deserve some crticism for only providing 4G on a limited range of frequencies, but that is irrelevent to the fact that the advertisements are highly misleading. Apple knew that the 4G would not work in Australia, yet they decided to advertise it anyway.
Car analogy: car maker advertises car with 1000 mile range, except that it needs unobtanium for fuel in order to get the 1K mile range. According to you, the fault would lie with the fuel companies for not selling unobtanium.
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Which is why we fund the ACCC, because we aren't complete putzes.
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That's not cruel. My aging mother in law, who doesn't speak English, signed up to one of these deals the other day. She had no idea what she was signing, but she wanted the man to go away.
I immediately called the power company and demanded to speak to someone to cancel the control. Which I can do, because we have a 10 day cooling off period AS LAW in Australia. No commission for scum-sucking salesman. A total waste of their time.
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.worldtimezone.com/gsm.html [worldtimezone.com]
Oh look! It would appear that THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD uses the 900/1800 GSM band.
Apple intentionally mislead consumers, and they were warned prior to the iPads release by the ACCC that what they were doing was in breach of advertising laws.
I've spoken to many CEO's (I work helpdesk for a private hospitals) who wanted to order the iPad and when I told them it wasn't 4G compatible in Australia they were all shocked to hear it. I would assume this is the same with many other consumers as well.
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Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Informative)
which operates on a different spectrum than the 4G networks used everywhere else in the world
WTF are you talking about? The LTE ipad uses 700, 2100 MHz bands, and according to Wikipedia's 3GPP LTE page [wikipedia.org]:
The US & Canada are the only countries in the world with LTE networks fully compatable with the ipad.
US !=The rest of the world.
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"compatable"?
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that there is an actual 4g(debatable as 4g doesn't really mean anything) network at all in australia just makes advertising it as 4g scummier, as consumers could buy a device that works on that network. how is it telstras fault that apple doesn't want to kick up a production line for it and that apple wants to just produce one device and ship it globally and advertise it globally with the same adverts?
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, in this case, it's not Apple's fault ..
Actually, it is.
The case may be a bit shaky, though, ..
No it mightn't. It looks pretty straightforward to me. See below.
as Apple does state in the fine print: '4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US;
Oh I get it- so as long as it does state it in the "fine print", then Apple et. al. are allowed to perform misleading advertizing? Or is there another point here that I am missing?
Sorry about the tone, but I tend to be overenthousiastic when consumer protection laws bite megacorps in the arse.
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You can easily get WiFi in your house and it is known you will need to transmit WiFi to receive it. Worst case scenario you can go to a coffee shop and get WiFi.
But the 4G on the tablet won't receive the 4G that the local Telcos provide. If you want to use that 4G, you'll have no luck in Australia, Europe, Asia. You have to go to North America!
Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser (Score:5, Informative)
I guess the question would be... is it's Apple's responsibility to manage the wireless carriers infrastructure?
It is Apple's responsibility to manage their advertising, ensuring that when they advertise a device is 4G compatible, that is is compatible with whatever 4G means in the country they're advertising.
For instance, if a Swedish company was advertising a free slut with each car sold, and it turned out that all you got was the ability for the car to stop (slut means stop in swedish), you'd be.... disappointed wouldn't you? Well, this is the same thing. A company using a local definition in a foreign market to confuse the marketplace.
Apple also claims all iPads have WiFi but if you don't have WiFi at your house, should you sue Apple for false advertising?
This analogy is so fucking stupid that my brain has shrunk slightly upon reading it. How about this? If Apple claims a device has wifi, but it is not compatible with the local regulatory requirements for wifi, then yes, they will get sued.
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Like your analogy but just to nitpick, slut in swedish doesn't mean stop. It actually means "end" as in "the end" or that you are out of something like "We are out of milk" - "Vi har slut på mjölk".
Sluta on the other hand does mean to stop doing something "Now it's time to stop for the day" - "Nu är det dags att sluta för dagen".
If you mean stop as in stopping the cars forward motion though, we probably would use "stanna" or if braking "bromsa". We also have the wrord "stopp" but that is
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It sure as hell isn't in australia. Judges here hate fine-print. If a reasonable customer can't understand it, then a judge isn't going to believe its reasonable unless the product says "FOR LAWYERS ONLY" in big print. The big concept is a "reasonable person". Ie , not a lawyer, and not a retard, but your average joe. And if the sign says "YOU GET 4G" and the fine print says "not really" , your in big frigging trouble with the judge.
The competition watchdog is a reluctant litigant here, and generally wont s
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If a company wants all the first world brand protections and a captive market... Yes it has to be very clear about what a product can do and will support.
i.e. in the real world as sold, out of the box.
If your product is to work with Australian wireless - note wifi, 3g and any sort of new 3g support.
Then your fine. The average consumer is been flooded with 4g ads and sees a product with "4g" - they will spend a ~mortgage payment and exp
Does fine print supercede large print? (Score:5, Interesting)
The article says that the fine print may make the case shaky:
The case may be a bit shaky, though, as Apple does state in the fine print: '4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US; and on Bell, Rogers and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details.'"
But why can the fine print supercede what's in the main ad? How can an ad for a 4G device in Australia be legal if that device will never be able to work in Australia? They can list the 4G for USA and Canada on the specs page. As another example, if an ad screams "Unlimited 4G data!!!" in large print, they shouldn't be able to write "Unlimited plans subject to data caps that we won't reveal to you and throttling back to speeds slower than 2G speeds" down in the fine print. If it says "Unlimited" in the large print, then it really should be "Unlimited". Fine print shouldn't be able to contradict the main body of the ad.
Re:Does fine print supercede large print? (Score:5, Informative)
The Australian courts have answered this many times: It does not. Fine print does not even trump customers logical expectations.
The only thing that may save Apple is that the boxes have quite a large sticker on the back that states that the 4G capability is not compatible with any Australian network. Assuming that Apple has not advertised 4G in any Australian-targeted advertising, they should be OK.
If they have, then fines and forced offers of refunds will be in their future.
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I thought that sticker was added by Telstra. You only see that if you buy the iPad directly from Telstra. Any other retailer and you won't have a clue.
Re:Does fine print supercede large print? (Score:5, Informative)
Read this page [apple.com] and then note the "au" in the URL, not also the prices in Austalian dollars. It is clearly targeted to Australia and it highlights 4G capability.
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Oh it gets even better than that, check out this apple page [apple.com] - which not only says "4G" but also lists Optus, Telstra, and Vodafone as offering compatible data plans.
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Read this page [apple.com] and then note the "au" in the URL, not also the prices in Austalian dollars. It is clearly targeted to Australia and it highlights 4G capability.
It doesn't look that way to me. It reads:
Ultrafast wireless. Full speed ahead. Designed with next-generation wireless technology, the new iPad with Wi-Fi+4G connects to fast data networks around the world.
As a comparison, look at http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/ [apple.com] and http://www.apple.com/au/ipad/features/ [apple.com] Notice the big difference when talking about wireless? There's a gigantic 4G LTE on the default and no 4G LTE on the AU page.
Re:Does fine print supercede large print? (Score:4, Informative)
The Danish watchdog is also preparing suit against Apple for the exact same - here in Denmark, the sticker definitely wont be enough.
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There are grumblings about it here in Norway too. Same story. Apple homepage, tooting 4g, showing logos of norwegian operators beside it. And none of the operators support that 4G standard.
Re:Does fine print supercede large print? (Score:4, Funny)
My iPhone doesn't support 4G but it "supports" it because AT&T renamed 3G to 4G.
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That is still considered 'bait advertising'.
The ACCC really don't care about fine print at all, they can, will and HAVE shut companies down simply for saying misleading things in big print and then relying on fine print to save them.
Re:Does fine print supercede large print? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I've often wondered why we tolerate fine print that contradicts, in any way, the actual statements made. Whenever I see a commercial with some claim and an asterisk, my mind usually fills in the bottom portion (which typically shoots off the screen too fast for me to actually read) as "* not really."
In a way it's kind of fun. I think it gives a strange insight into how advertisers perceive us.
I suppose the problem is it's hard to come up with a hard-and-fast definition for a contradiction. Take some
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My 4G LTE dongle begs to differ. We do have 4G in capital cities, and the limitation of the iPad is that it does not work with most 4G frequencies, only a small select few.
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The small print isn't superseding the large print. The iPad you buy WILL be a 4G model. And if and when you are somewhere with 4G it'll be able to use it.
No, have a look at the spectrum used by 4G networks where the ipad is sold (worldwide) and compare with the bands supported by the ipad and you'll find you're wrong.
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Actually, Australia runs common 4G frequencies inline with every other country outside of the US. Turns out it's the US which doesn't comply to 'normal' 4G.
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Media Watch (Score:2, Interesting)
ABC's Media Watch mentioned this as part of a larger look into media coverage of the new iPad release [abc.net.au]. Summary doesn't quite make clear that 4G is available in Australia, it's just that the iPad won't support it.
Who defines what "G" some thing is? (Score:2)
If I had a company that made the relevant toys, could I advertise them as "5G", or even "6G"?
Who decides what qualifies?
Re:Who defines what "G" some thing is? (Score:4, Informative)
If I had a company that made the relevant toys, could I advertise them as "5G", or even "6G"?
Who decides what qualifies?
The ITU (International Telecommunications Union), but telco's have co-opted this to the point that the ITU has said, there will be no 5G.
The original ITU 4G specification was 100 Mbps fixed and 40 Mbps mobile, not even LTE can guarantee this, LTE Enhanced (Advanced, cant remember which) would have been the first but US telco's wanted to brand HSPA+ as 4G and the ITU capitulated.
BTW, Ipads and Iphone dont even support HSPA+
Re:Who defines what "G" some thing is? (Score:5, Informative)
The ITU
Indeed. And according to the ITU, HSPA+ is "4G" and you can use the iPad 4G on Telstra's HSPA+ network, thus achieving a "4G" connection.
The problem stems from the fact that in Australia only Telstra's LTE network is advertised as "4G", and it is this network that the iPad is not compatible with. So, technically you can get a 4G connection on the new iPad, but Apple may be in trouble if it is determined that their advertising leads customers to believe that the device is compatible with the Telstra-advertised "4G" network.
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To be clear it goes beyond that. It's not that their product doesn't support one carrier in Australia, it's that their product does not support the band that the regulator has designated for 4G (everywhere in the world except North America mind you). But it's only a question of advertising such as the Australian iPad website [apple.com] not only makes mention of 4G but also lists 4 Australian companies on the page dedicated to 4G, three of which do not offer 4G services at all.
It's not an issue of compatibility, other
What the hell? (Score:3)
With all their money in the bank, Apple couldn't afford to produce market-specific ads for different countries?
I hope they get their asses sued into the ground for penny-pinching in such a fashion. Given the profitability of the damned things, they sure as hell can afford to use regional advertising!
On a semi off topic note... (Score:2)
if war crimes were treated like consumer complaint (Score:2)
maybe we could start actually prosecuting people for war crimes?
it seems like you can kill millions of people and get away with it, but if your advertising is misleading, oh my god, the consumer watchdogs will sue you.
maybe if someone could figure out you can 'consume' warfare, then maybe we could have a 'consumers reports' test.
i am not sure what the 'product' is here though. freedom? government itself?
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Plenty of historical precedent. They got Al Capone for cheating on taxes...
NZ watchdog receives complaint over iPad 4G (Score:3, Informative)
The Commerce Comission (equivalent of the ACCC in Oz, or the US FTC) in New Zealand is also considering the same action against Apple (and there are exactly zero 4G networks here)
Commerce Commission investigating Apple iPad 4G adverts after Complaint [stuff.co.nz]
EVDO, HSPA, HSDPA, HSPA+ and DC HSPA 3G? (Score:2)
They cannot all be 3G since EVDO has a maximum 2.45 Mbit/s to 3.1 Mbit/s. EVDO either has to be demoted to 2.5G or HSPA+ and above has to be considered de-facto "4G".
To me, if the typical speed of HSPA+ in some markets is "higher" than LTE 4G in other markets then that means that HSPA+ is 4G effectively.
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"USA + Canada" = "around the world"? (Score:2)
It's not 100% clear that the regulator will have a case on the specific point mentioned-- it is factually correct that the iPad connects to 4G networks. Whilst on one level you might argue that this is playing on public ignorance as far as the *domestic* market is concerned, the iPad is clearly also a product specifically designed with travel in mind. So advertising on the basis of a feature that works somewhere internationally, albeit not domestically, could be argued to be legitimate and that it is up to
Not actually a lie (Score:2)
It is the same WiFi+4G model sold in the USA, and it will currently only work with USA 4G, AND with All/most Australian 3G networks, and I would guess that a firmware upgrade may fix the problem, in time. It isn't a dud, it's just not what people think when they first glance at it. The warning is plane sight when you go to buy on-line. I'm guessing that Apple will get a caution, and they will have to make the 4G conditions a bit more obvious. Meanwhile my local garage sells petrol cheap, oh, as I pull in th
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May not be a lie, but it is misleading.
It gives you the idea that you will, in the right areas, get 4G in Australia with these things.
You wont.
ACCC suits are in the order of $1M per violation.
Germany is ahead of them ... (Score:2)
For ads in Germany, Apple already had to remove the 4G stuff ...
Re:Silly (Score:5, Informative)
We do have 4G here in Australia, it's just on a band that the Apple iPad doesn't support.
Re:Silly (Score:5, Informative)
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The Crux of the matter here is that 4G is available in Australia, Apple just can't be bothered making the iPad compatible with the Australian Network
Actually the fault for incompatibility lies with Telstra who chose a different band in full knowledge that it would be incompatible with the rest of the world, presumably for their own anti-competitive strategies. This is not to excuse Apple, whose advertising in the Australian context certainly appears unlawful (enough for the ACCC to take action, and they
Re:Silly (Score:5, Informative)
By the rest of the world do you mean "The USA" or by the rest of the world do you mean "The rest of the world" ?
Because in Europe, Australia, and Asia 1800 is the standard frequency, with 2600 and 800 being also considered.
In the USA it's 700 and 1700/1900.
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The US & Canada isn't the "rest of the world," dude. We (the US and Canada) the ones who chose different bands from the actual rest of the world. Apple shouldn't be advertising 4G in Australia if it can't deliver 4G to Australia. It's entirely deceptive.
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Apple shouldn't be advertising 4G in Australia if it can't deliver 4G to Australia. It's entirely deceptive.
That's what I said.
As far as the "rest of the world," using something other than 1800, I stand corrected. My bad.
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The things your learn when you post wrong stuff on slashdot. Obviously I allowed my recent altercation with Telstra, whom I'm "forced" to use because of connectivity, to cloud my judgement. I'll just take my tin-foil hat off now.
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If they advertised it as "will let you play Angry Birds" and some quadriplegic would then sue because he can't play?
That's ridiculous. You're cherry-picking an extreme corner case, and one that requires anything to be modified extensively to be anywhere near useful. For anyone with reasonable expectations (which is a phrase used in Australian consumer law) it's fine for playing Angry Birds.
Even if you don't have a 4G network in Elbonia or Australia, doesn't mean the device isn't/doesn't deliver on the marketing (it'll do 4G where such networks exist, US and Canada).
Except that it's being advertised with this feature in Australia to Australians. What it can do in other parts of the world is totally irrelevant to Australian consumers and the ACCC.
If the ad was in "Quadriplegic's Monthly"... (Score:3)
... then, maybe. The target of the advertisement matters in cases such as these.
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They have a monthly magazine. How do they turn the pages?
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they have a mouth. every month they just hope that there's no scratch-to-smell adverts.
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If they advertised it as "will let you play Angry Birds" and some quadriplegic would then sue because he can't play?
If they advertise to quadriplegics the 'fact' that they could and quadriplegics can't, then they would be in breach of the law. Whether the "some quadriplegic" could then sue, is a question of standing. Remember it isn't some iPad purchaser suing here, it's the ACCC.
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Angry Birds should be perfectly playable with a stylus.Not unlike the way a quadriplegic would type.
A consumer has a reasonable expectation that advertised features can be used in the place the product is sold. Australia DOES have a 4G network.
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Any phones sold as 4G in Australia are LTE phones.
We don't have that problem that US has.
Those phones you see like 'MyTouch 4G' or whatever actually have an entirely different name in EMEA and Australasia.
Re:Wtf frequency limits? (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if the radios can, the main problem is the antenna. Specially if you need power efficiency, which is the case of mobile devices. Losing 60% of your output power due to antenna impedance difference is not something you can afford to have. And that is only one of the issues, the first one that poped in my head, actually. I'm sure there are many others.
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It's already got a shitload of antennas for other things (Wi-Fi, cellular networks, Bluetooth, etc) why couldn't they put antennas for both 4G frequencies, i.e. the fake "4G" for North America and the real 4G for the rest of the World?
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You know that is a completely different issue than the one of the OP, to which I replied, right ?
Adding 1 more antenna for 1 more freq range is totally possible.
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Your forgot to add that when it does not work, that it is a major feature.
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If Ferrari advertises their cars as having a top speed in excess of 200MPH, do we think they ought to be sued because the roads in my country can't handle it and limit the top speed to less than half of what the car is capable of? Sounds nuts now, doesn't it?
Why can't the roads handle it? There's nothing stopping you from using it on a track.
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The roads and the car can handle it just fine. That is, it will do just exactly what they say. The question is, can you handle a speeding ticket that big?
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IOW: give Apple a decade or two :)
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Australia's GDP in 2012 is $1.57 Trillion according to the IMF [imf.org].
It's insane to compare a country with a company. But still, Australia does have 15 times the economy of Apple.
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So, what's the interest rate they're paying over the period during which they kept the money?