Apple Patents Power Adapter That Recovers Lost Passwords 210
Sparrowvsrevolution writes "Apple has patented a power charger that also serves as a password recovery backup. If a user forgets his Macbook's password, for instance, he simply plugs in the cord, and it would provide a unique ID number stored in a memory chip in the adapter that acts as a decryption key, unscrambling an encrypted copy of the password stored on the machine. The technique, according to the patent, incentivizes better password use by avoiding traditional password recovery techniques that annoy users and lead to disabled or easily-guessed passwords. The new technique is only secure, the patent admits, in cases where the user leaves a mobile device's charger at home. So the idea may make the most sense for long-battery-life devices like iPods, iPads and iPhones rather than laptops, at least until laptop batteries last long enough that users don't take their power adapters with them and expose them to theft."
Reasonably stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Well that's a reasonably stupid idea. Store the password with something many users are going to carry around with their laptop...
And even if you didn't.. you forget your password on the road, then what? And this is less annoying than having to answer a previously entered question?
Re:Reasonably stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
"And even if you didn't.. you forget your password on the road, then what? "
you suffer the consequences. You know life has those.
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you suffer the consequences. You know life has those.
Consequences? In a world where it is McDonald's fault people are fat, tobacco's fault people can't breath, the insurance industry's fault that medical care for their fat tar-filled bodies is expensive, and people are up in arms in the UK because the NHS won't stump up for free reversal surgery because their elective operation done on the cheap turns out to have been a bad idea? There are too many people out there who fail to acknowledge they are responsible for any consequences.
Re:Reasonably stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
I would admit that there are too many people who fail to acknowledge their responsibilities, but I would venture that there are even more people who make a living by convincing/tricking people into failing to acknowledge their responsibility.
-Rick
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You mean like someone convincing people it's a good idea to use your power adapter as an encryption key?
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Why is this modded down? You're totally right, we the people never want to face any consequences, even if the actions are obviously stupid. One problem of our society is that in many cases we don't have to.
You mentioned McDonalds and the healthcare, but I'd say it all starts earlier, in schools. Teachers can't do anything without parents getting all up in arms, so the kids can get away with anything. Student loans and credit cards all exist to create an illusion of no consequences.
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(I do not work for a credit card company.)
Credit cards are CHEAPER for me (due to cash back), and more convenient (almost never have to go to the ATM, only for a very few places that I go to that only take cash). I auto-pay every month, so pay no late fees nor interest. They're also safer than cash, because I am legally responsible for at most $50 in losses if I report a stolen card quickly enough (and it is my understandin
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OR, provide two power adapters... one that has your master PW and other that is a sort of "valet key" equivalent of power adapters that you take with you.
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At that point, why on earth would you integrate it with the power adapter and not just a cheap dongle? That's why this is, erm, patently, stupid.
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Any stupider than making two dongles (power brick, valet key) necessary?
That's why this is, erm, patently, stupid.
I see what you did there.
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It'd also be useful in cases where people have two chargers. Some people keep a charger / docking station / cinema display plugged in on the desk at work or home, and a spare charger in the bag for traveling. That way you don't have to unplug and pack the one at work every day, or worry about accidentally forgetting it one day.
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I would hope that only Apple would have the back door to this one and just because they patent it doesn't mean they will use it. I think cell phones is where it would be applied and not laptops if applied though. You know they are one of the few manufactures with a proprietary cable and no HDMI out for such expensive devices rolling on a 30% profit margin while Foxconn only gets under 1% for actually building Apples mobile devices. Now we have lots of Android devices that Apple wont be capable of putting ou
Not so stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
The more junk they cram in the power adapters, the harder it is for 3-rd party companies to make copies without Apple's consent.
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but the patent says the one with the code should be left at home to keep it secure. You just totally screwed that pooch.
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Actually, since the new Apple monitors have built-in power adapters for a laptop I'm assuming that this could use that power adapter as the recovery device. your normal power adapter that you take on the road would not have the key. This is actually not a bad idea.
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And in one move (Score:5, Insightful)
Kills the 3rd party accessory market. Because you won't be able to get "crypto" power blocks from anyone else. Wanna bet?
Re:And in one move (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And in one move (Score:5, Informative)
Can you get Magsafe power adapters from anyone else anyways? I've never seen any, and a quick Googling says no.
Our friends from China say "yes, you can" [dealextreme.com]. I burned two original magsafe PA, then bought this one by U$ 30 (w/ shipping) two years ago. Still working.
Re:And in one move (Score:4, Interesting)
The led on the magsafe connector doesn't work, but the adapter works great and was a lot cheaper than the official one. Apparently the t-style magsafe aren't very robust and the internal cable gets wrecked. Of course Apple doesn't make that part of the adapter easily replaceable like the power cord (which is much less likely to get wrecked). They really should make it a replaceable part. Dell builds a sturdier power adapter for their entry level laptops (at least in my experience).
Re:And in one move (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll repeat a post I wrote on this previously.
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Bingo - well put. Would mod if I had points.
Re:And in one move (Score:5, Informative)
Apples magsafe power supply uses as patented magnetic connector.
As far as i know there is no 3rd party power block available for mac laptops due to this connector.
They have already "killed" this accessory market.
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Kills the 3rd party accessory market. Because you won't be able to get "crypto" power blocks from anyone else. Wanna bet?
This is rather diabolical if you're right. Oh I'm sure any 3rd party could figure out what piss-ant encryption solution they're providing and duplicate the feat. But if it's protected by patents -- well, that's a lawsuit for you. Not only are you infringing on IP, but you're circumventing protections.
Is there a tech equivalent of the phrase, "for the children!"? We're doing it for the consumer, the consumer sir!
Apple tax (Score:2)
As if they need a technical restriction, when they're so heavy handed with the legislative restrictions.
I'd never buy, for example a phone, that didn't have a micro USB charger, or a stereo that had a wacky propitiatory interface like an "ipod dock".
It shouldn't be legal to block or tax 3rd party accessory makers, and what's needed is more forced standards for consumer screwing companies like Apple.
Re:Apple tax (Score:4, Funny)
As if they need a technical restriction, when they're so heavy handed with the legislative restrictions.
I'd never buy, for example a phone, that didn't have a micro USB charger, or a stereo that had a wacky propitiatory interface like an "ipod dock".
It shouldn't be legal to block or tax 3rd party accessory makers, and what's needed is more forced standards for consumer screwing companies like Apple.
It's only an Apple Tax (same as a Microsoft Tax) if you go that way.
Every time you buy into some proprietary technology you sell a little piece of your soul.
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It's only an Apple Tax (same as a Microsoft Tax) if you go that way.
Every time you buy into some proprietary technology you sell a little piece of your soul.
OK ... good luck building your own non-proprietary car, TV, computer hardware, etc.
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I'm a PC, but I'm guessing this also means Macs aren't the kind of folks who might have one power adapter at home and another one for traveling.
I have 3 different adapters I might use with my ThinkPad between home, work, and traveling. Would you need a matched set of adapters with the same memory chip in each? Would using an adapter with a different chip change the encoding on the passwords?
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Thta's the entire point. The password is encrypted using the "home charger" key. Presumably, you'd travel with a trave
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Actually, if Apple was smart about this, they could open up a bigass revenue stream for both themselves and 3rd parties...
Licence the magsafe adapter (Yeah, I know, unlikely, but hear me out) for a hefty sum to a number of quality 3rd parties, but do NOT license the crypto power brick.
That way, we, as the consumer, can purchase a non-crypto power brick to carry with us when we travel, leaving the crypto power brick safely at home where it belongs.
Of course, this is Apple, so they'll be smart towards only th
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Kills the 3rd party accessory market. Because you won't be able to get "crypto" power blocks from anyone else.
Which, I'm sure, Apple deeply deeply regrets. Given their broad and enthusiastic support of the accessory aftermarket.
Let's face it. Apple learned from their failed experiment in licensing out their technologies for others to manufacture [wikipedia.org]: you don't EVER undercut your own market. If you do license it out, you make sure your license fee revenues more than compensate for the lost sales.
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There is not a third party market for laptop power supplies. Only Apple makes the MagSafe connector. You do have a point for iPad and iPhone devices.
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Or notebooks on which you can write the password and keep at home .. next to the power adaptor.
Re:And in one move (Score:5, Funny)
Not to mention the extra sale this can add to a mac book sale
Sir, you also want our "mobile adapter" - it allows you to charge your mac book anywhere, and if someone was to steal it, they wouldn't be able to reset your password using it! Brilliant isn't it? We do it in black, or white.
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I wonder how this is better (Score:5, Insightful)
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For two factor authentication it's something you know (password) and something you have (the power cord) if both are required to use the computer. Letting one without the other log in seems less secure.
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This isn't two factor. This new adapter requires you to have either the password OR the power adapter. Since this is sort of the inverse of two factor, can we call this 1/2 factor?
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Why not just store it on the computer, then. Something you know (password) and something you have (computer). There's no advantage to the power brick being your second authentication, as it's useless without the computer.
This seems like a pretty cool idea until you realize that you are likely to store your adapter (password key) with the computer, and it's probably nearly as likely to be stolen along with the laptop in it's carrying case. Better to have a USB on a keyring. (Not that Steve Jobs would be cau
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Why not just store it on the computer, then. Something you know (password) and something you have (computer). There's no advantage to the power brick being your second authentication, as it's useless without the computer.
This seems like a pretty cool idea until you realize that you are likely to store your adapter (password key) with the computer, and it's probably nearly as likely to be stolen along with the laptop in it's carrying case. Better to have a USB on a keyring. (Not that Steve Jobs would be caught dead with a keyring...well, I guess that's not a real argument anymore).
Actually, he merely wouldnt be caught dead driving a car with a license plate, or parking said car farther away than the nearest handicap spot (wonder why he didnt just go full monty and park it on the grass by the doors though.) A keyring, if it were simple enough (only having one key on it, perhaps) would probably fly with him.
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Re:I wonder how this is better (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a *terrible* idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Password use *one way* hashing systems for a reason.
Thank you Apple, for once again eliminating desktop security.
Tautology (Score:3)
All hashes are one way because data is thrown away. You can't even reverse simple checksums like CRC32.
This system doesn't store a plaintext password. It's like a secondary authentication system. Think SSH: You can authenticate using a password OR public key cryptography.
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This system doesn't store a plaintext password.
How so, if the patent has an image of a dialog saying: "Password Retrieved. Your Password is XXXXX"?
The power adapter itself doesn't store the password, but the system does.
iPhones, long battery life? (Score:2, Insightful)
Given the number of people I see charging up their smartphones in the office, I'd say the Apple patent people haven't quite grasped that smartphone battery life is a long way from what many people would like.
(Also, given that most non-computer devices like iPhones charge over USB, this seems distinctly less impressive. 'Put some data on some flash memory inside the battery charger' and transmit it over the USB con
Why combine it with a power adaptor? (Score:2)
OK, it's a daft idea for various security related reasons -- but that's fine. People patent daft ideas all the time; doesn't mean they plan to implement them.
What I don't get is, why bring power adapters into it? Why not patent a more general case, then if someone builds it into a power adapter, the patent covers it. If someone builds it into (say) an MP3 player, the patent covers that too.
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So, Apple think all their users are single... (Score:5, Insightful)
Security is only as strong as it's weakest password recovery method.
This whole idea completely forgets that the whole purpose of your password might be to stop you little-brother/offspring/tech-illiterate-housemate (ie: anyone who lives with you) from screwing up your device.
You assumed the implementation method already? (Score:3)
You miss the point of the patent. It's to prevent other people from doing something which reads on their invention. Not necessarily to implement it themselves.
That said, Apple will probably use this, but I doubt they will turn this into their default and only password recovery method. More likely, it will be an (expensive) optional add-on. This is direct in-house competition to all the crazy ways third parties offer to keep passwords secure for the Windows environment.
You have taken a patent and assumed
I'm gonna patent... (Score:2)
... a paper clip which is capable of encrypting eBooks.
I suppose its better than going to the Apple store, shuffling your feet and mumbling sheepishly you somehow forgot your password, but what if I have a power adaptor and swiped your phone, can I now hack it?
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but what if I have a power adaptor and swiped your phone, can I now hack it?
No you would need my adapter as well as my phone. When you set the password, then a backdoor key is stored in the adapter. You could do the same thing with any USB stick - essentially the patent is just about putting the USB stick into the power supply.
OSX Password recovery is trivial as it is (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously?
Boot while holding down Apple-S /var/db/.AppleSetupDone
mount -uw /
rm
shutdown -h now
Bam. Administrator access and all the password resetting glory you need thereafter.
I don't even have a Mac and I know how to do it. How fucking easy does it need to be?
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Seriously?
Boot while holding down Apple-S
I tried this, but it is asking for my FileVault password. Now what?
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I guess you haven't heard of FileVault.
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Unless whole-disk encrption is used, all data on the disk can be accessed from a LiveCD or a LiveUSB.
Re:OSX Password recovery is trivial as it is (Score:5, Informative)
"I don't even have a Mac and I know how to do it."
Which explains why you don't know that FileVault or a firmware password (both recommended by Apple for secure machines) blocks this.
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If you do that you lose the keychain.
This allows you to recover your password without blowing all that out of the water.
It will also work with full-disk-encryption FileVault.
I know it's already trivial to reset an admin password on an OS X machine - all you need is in OS X install disc and the ability to press "C" while booting and you can change the password. It won't get you past FileVault or the keychain though.
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Easier, because your average consumer doesn't even know how to drag and drop let alone use a text-only interface.
What's really laughable about this, though, is that they mention security in the article as if they believe there is any to begin with... for anyone who wants to break in, it's easy enough already.
The first line of security, and most oft employed, is Ignorance.
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
In what universe is an iPhone a "long-battery-life" device?
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It is a long battery-life device - as long as you are holding it correctly.
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A laptop is only good for a couple hours away from the power adapter. If the laptop goes in a carrying case, the power adapter goes in the case too.
A phone, even a thirsty smart phone, can last a day or two. People walk away from their power adapter for significant periods of time.
Useless (Score:2)
And even then, it's only secure if nobody breaks into your home. And you'll need a separate power adapter for use outside home. Under these conditions, you can ditch the home power adapter and replace it with a piece of paper with the password written on it.
War on general-purpose computation. (Score:2)
This is just a rather ridiculous convenience/security tradeoff for now, but it will be interesting once the enhanced power adapter becomes required.
Think of the possibilities. Every device and accessory, even every component of the computer, could have cryptographic protection built right into the hardware in a way that cannot be reverse-engineered. A secure computer can only contain secure hardware (and vice versa), only approved devices can be connected to an approved computer, only an approved computer c
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Microsoft is way ahead of you: the Xbox360 already authenticates peripherals and they've used the DMCA to try to prevent a competitor (Datel) from producing memory cards that work around the scheme.
http://www.publicknowledge.org/blog/microsoft-argues-third-party-peripherals-are- [publicknowledge.org]
How about this (Score:5, Interesting)
Put another chip in the wall outlet, that will communicate with a charger device using BPL, Data over Powerline, short range communications, RFID, or bluetooth; e.g. a "Password recovery" agent installed in a device somewhere else in the home plugged into another wall outlet, or built in to the outlet itself. wireless AP, linksys box, NAS, TVs, other home appliances would be good candidates to form a BPL-enabled self-organizing P2P network for facilitation of password recovery and theft prevention.
Some of the devices could incorporate a GPS location reading. If the device's location has changed significantly, then it is less familiar.
When the user logs into their computer, and authenticates, there will be a program they run on their computer to cause the power unit to "learn" which will scan the BPL or bluetooth for other devices.
Require the presence of other "familiar" home devices, for the password recovery procedure to be initiated.
This could also help if the charger got damaged or lost... just plug a new one in, enter the "House PIN #", and have it build the same shared secret key based on the identities of the familiar devices surrounding it that have an agreed upon shared key.
Also, high theft-risk non-mobile devices could enter an auto-lockdown mode, if powered on and no "familiar devices" are around.
So, are they skimming passwords now? (Score:2)
Makes you wonder what Apple is doing now...without your consent or knowledge.
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What?
You think they need a power adapter that sends a token to unencrypt a password stored on your Mac (the adapter does not have the password) to skim a password that you type into your Mac in plaintext every time you log in? Assuming, of course, that they were going to "skim" it.
Cool, just added it to my charger (Score:5, Funny)
All it took is sticking a PostIt note on the side. Can I now patent moving the sticky to the inside of my closet, where it will be more secure from friends and allow me to take the charger for travel?
Future products (Score:2)
It's not going to stay "power adapter with password," that's just the simplest and most abstract (read: absent real hints of product plans) example they came up with for the purposes of the patent.
I predict that eventually the communications will go elsewhere, for a push-button support system like OnStar for AppleCare. Subscription fees FTW!
Who would use it? (Score:2)
How doesn't anyone sees this? (Score:2)
So, if someone robs my home they can get all the supposedly secure information stored in my machine if they also take the charger? And this passes as secure? As you kidding me?
If they want an external piece of hardware to unlock my computer, just make it use the IR or Bluetooth and be small - so I can keep it on my person. Other than that, it'll be pretty much useless.
Obligatory "this is not a patent" (Score:4, Informative)
This is not a patent, this is an application publication. You can tell because it says "pub no" in the upper right corner instead of "patent no". For reference:
Link to publication from TFA [pat2pdf.org]
Link to a real patent [freepatentsonline.com] (believe it or not)
TFA author can't tell the difference, which is incredibly obvious once you know what you're looking for. And a lot of applications never become a patent.
Now that the application has published, anyone who knows of any prior art might be able to let the patent office know about it if this application isn't examined before the new law kicks in September 16 this year. See the America Invents Act [gpo.gov], section 8 (starts bottom of page 32).
Yawn (Score:2)
- the color-changing case
- the mouse with rotary dial
- liquid cooled notebooks
- et bloody cetera
The first to find a Slashdot article about an Apple patent that actually was implemented gets my next 5 Mod-points as "Insightful", no matter how stupid their posts. Yes, even if you are one of my foes.
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iPhone, iPad, iPod. This is Apple we are talking about hear. What is the MicroSD card you speak of? If a user ever needs more space they've made it never easy to just needing to buy a new larger capacity.
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Why bother with this at all? You can already enable your Mac accounts to use your Apple ID to log into your Mac. This is in addition to your regular login by the way. If you forget your password you can reset it in the cloud and then use that to re-log in to any device you've setup to allow that type of authentication.
From the Apple Help:
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Re:good idea (Score:5, Interesting)
wrong. at least this time ;)
lots of good reasons for apple to do this. they want you to continue to use apple hardware and they have a lock-in effect going on. other than that mag-lock stuff, a power brick was a power brick. batteries are starting to be chipped/locked, but so far, I've not seen power sources be locked.
I bet we'll see that soon, though.
also, apple did this because they could, not because its a strikingly good idea for the world. you *can* send data comms along a power path and double-up on it. you *can*. but is there a good reason to? there sure is value in keeping power sources somewhat dumb. they push power (current) at you at a fixed voltage or voltage set. no need to crypto-up that path!
I bet there is also a patent defense plan here. anyone who wants to 'talk' along that path will probably get hit with an apple patent threat-suit, legit or not.
it does seem like a dumb idea, overall; but apple is getting a few things from this. its not about users. heh - lately, nothing is ever about the users (benefit).
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It was worthless before and it's still worthless now. I'm not even upset that they patented this trivial and non-novel idea.
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I keep hearing this about patents.
If it's trivial and non novel then why is no one doing it or previously put a patent on it?
It's not trivial or non-novel. it's just not being done.
Re:good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's trivial and non novel then why is no one doing it or previously put a patent on it?
Well apart from the fact that this particular idea is stupid (thus, nobody doing it), sometimes things just luckily don't get patented, like "fuel cells on a computer" and "fuel cells on a cell phone" which were both shockingly not patented up until this year. Somehow even among swarms of lawyers, a few conceivable ideas go unpatented sometimes. Shocking, I know.
This idea is both trivial (passing data to a power adapter which attaches to a port that can also pass data? Wow not like half the USB-charged devices on the planet do that!) and non-novel (acts as a security key like the metric shit-tons of USB fobs that have been on the market over the last decade).
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Right, so again - why has no one done it before?
It's actually quite a good idea. If you forget your password you're not screwed, since you can unlock your device when you get home.
You'll notice they didn't patent the "metric shit-tons of USB fobs", but a different way to authenticate a device.
Whether it's different enough from a separate USB dongle that can unlock the computer is something the patent office should deal with.
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It's actually quite a good idea. If you forget your password you're not screwed, since you can unlock your device when you get home.
It's a good idea if you want joke security, and the passphrase screen most phones have is poor enough. I hope they won't allow this authentication method to bypass any full-disk encryption. It will be common knowledge among thieves and black hats that you can unlock an iShiny using the included power adapter that's usually plugged into the device when it's laying around. What could possibly go wrong?
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Ahh good, so if I'm traveling and take my laptop (a nice 17" MBP), I have to take a different power cable, because if I don't, someone can just use my power cord to get into my accounts. Since the only time I use my laptop is when I'm traveling, that effectively makes the power cord that came with it useless, and I get to pony up another $80 for proprietary Apple power cord.
The only way this wouldn't be a negative feature for me would be if it were entirely optional. Otherwise it makes my purchase *worse*
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The whole point, i suspect, is that people forget flash drives. Or have several and don't know which one they stored their password on.
OTOH, they tend to only have one and only one charger, and that's significantly harder to lose.
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You've never worked in my office then..
day in day out users "forget" their chargers. What happens infact is they leave it at home because they are a lazy slob and don't want to carry it / lean over and unplug it. I know this, because I offered some users a spare charger and then they explained how much better it is now they don't need to carry / lean over.
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On the other hand, you can put that flash drive in the safe and not have to pull it out every day... Only when you forget your password.
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Except when you and your machine are in Ogdenville and your safe with your pen drive is in North Haverbrook.
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apple patents something as soon as the work is done. they don't wait for it to become usable in a device.
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I wonder if Apple will also stop chargers from charging any laptop that doesn't have the same password hash?
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From what I can tell (from TFS) the adapter only has a number that acts as a decryption key. You wouldn't be able to get the actual password from just the adapter itself. Though it may be possible to figure out the password based on just the decryption key. I'm not very well versed in cryptography, so if someone who is wants to correct me on this, feel free.
Either accomplished by it being the Original Power Adator or something you twiddle with software, presumably when the i(insert Apple product here) is connected to the Power Adator and already unlocked. Sucks to be you, if you are like me and keep multiple Power Adators at various locations, rather than lugging the thing around with my like some kind of Cupertino-required parasite.
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Sucks to be you, if you are like me and keep multiple Power Adators at various locations, rather than lugging the thing around with my like some kind of Cupertino-required parasite.
Yeah I do this with my phone. Also, what the hell is an adator? Even if you remembered the "p", it's not spelled "adaptor".
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Though it may be possible to figure out the password based on just the decryption key.
It's not, at least not using any common cryptographic algorithm. Keys are supposed to be randomly generated.
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It seems to me this was done, not for security, but for business reasons. Now Apple can use the DMCA to keep other companies from making a power adapters for Apple products.
Please explain how that would work. What copyrighted work of Apple would be copied by a company making a power adapter for Apple products? Since Lexmark tried some idiotic shit, everyone, including judges, knows what kind of stuff the DMCA does _not_ cover.
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Yes, that's exactly what it means. There can be no question at all.
Also, the sky is falling and you forgot to log in.