No PDFs, No Co-editing On Underwhelming Apple iCloud 189
An anonymous reader writes "Apple's iCloud service has been a little overlooked in the bunfight for the iPhone 4S. When it was first announced some predicted it would wipe out companies like Box.net, DropBox and so on. As the NYTimes put it, "Maybe Apple will kill them all.' Box.net's CEO disagreed and it looks like he was right. You can't store PDFs and images on iCloud except with PhotoStream, there's no co-editing, and the document management interface is a shambles."
It just proves analyst are complete idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Never in any presentation did apple commit to any of those features.
It's a personal sync service, backup service.
That's it. It's storage somewhere, it's a sync service for your photographs between devices, and in a bit it'll be a music service for yourself.
Never did they say they'd let you directly access it like DropBox. Nothing would stop someone from making a PDF reader that saved and wrote to the iCloud but this last round of Apple products & software updates has created this bizarre 'oh they're doing THIS' line of crap from these analysts and they make up some of the craziest crap.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps the reason analysts thought that is because there would be no point whatsoever of having a service that JUSt stores pictures and music when other out there do everything already.
Re:It just proves analyst are complete idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
There's plenty of point for people who have more than one Apple device, or who want to manage their single devices without the need for a sync computer. I never got the impression that this was intended as a Dropbox killer. It's a remote sync and and device backup utility for iDevices and to a lesser extent music and media from iTunes on your computer. It's a useful way to seamlessly maintain certain devices and software, not a backup system for your computer.
Re: (Score:2)
My favorite feature: I don't have to manually transfer photos I take to my computer anymore like a digital camera. I take the picture on my phone, and the photo appears on my computer.
Re: (Score:2)
Citation?
Re:It just proves analyst are complete idiots (Score:4, Insightful)
Why buy a good fillet knife when there are 100 blade swiss army knives that do everything?
Re: (Score:2)
More like why buy a "fillet knife" that is just a pocket knife with 99 out of 100 blades snapped off when you could get either an actual fillet knife or a pocket knife with all 100 blades.
Re: (Score:2)
I think Duradin was being rhetorical.
Re: (Score:2)
As an ordinary person who uses knives to open boxes, pry off obstinate panels, remove loose threads and cut small hoses and cable ties,
By that logic I need a box cutter, prying knife, thread removing knife, hose severing knife and cable tie removal knife.
Why do I need to carry around 5 knives when 1 Swiss army knife (or leatherman) will do all that and more amicably?
Icloud is not speci
Re: (Score:3)
You're right. No sense creating a new mp3 player since Creative, Sansa and Sony had products on the market. No sense creating a smart phone since Handspring and Windows CE were already in the market. No sense working on Linux since Unix already existed. /sarcasm
Technology progresses in an evolutionary fashion. Marketing wan
Re:It just proves analyst are complete idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Well I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but iCloud (with the upcoming music service, if it comes) is exactly what I need. I don't need to store specific documents or edit them, I use Google Docs for that when I need it. Mozy handles my document backup/restore needs.
Just because you (or some analysts) don't see a use for it, doesn't mean that nobody can find a use for it. And further, although I like the idea of cloud services, I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket. Having choices is good, right? And not just choices in product, but in the way different products envision your usage, right?*
*Totally awkward sentence, written specifically to avoid using the word "paradigm.". Success? Failure? You decide!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
...So you're achieving synergistic use of multiplatform solutions?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
A back up service that doesn't back up your PDFs? That's stupid, no matter what way you try to spin it. The RDF won't help you now.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not trying to spin anything, I'm just saying that they never claimed to do that to begin with. Now, if you used the iCloud APIs and wrote an app that did, it'd work just fine. I haven't tested it extensively as I do not carry a lot of PDFs on my iPad, but the backup put the few that I had back into my iBooks when I restored, though I'm not sure if they 'restored' or were 're-syncd' as when you restore the iDevice it restores settings but apps & content are typically re-synced in my experience so
Re: (Score:3)
Disclaimer: I have a long history of predicting Apple's products will fail, and they keep proving me wrong. I still don't "get" the iPad. So, who knows?
Re: (Score:2)
Now, if you used the iCloud APIs and wrote an app that did...
I guess the question is, why would you bother? There are already cloud storage providers that utilize file system APIs to allow existing apps that aren't even cloud aware to do the same thing.
I guess I've always had that problem with Apple:
Fanboi: "Check out this new thing."
Me: "I'm already doing that for 20% less cost, and I don't have to do my banking through iTunes."
Fanboi: "But I started using iTunes five years ago, and I've been waiting for it to finish cataloguing my music collection since t
Re: (Score:2)
doesn't everyone who wants to listen to the Beatles already have all of their music on CD?
Now THAT is a good point.
Re: (Score:3)
proves slashdot readers include complete idiots (Score:2, Insightful)
It has documents sync, nowhere in the docco does it mention limitations on file type. You pay for your storage and you store your shit...
Nope. You pay for your applications' storage and your applications store their stuff.
Apple made it *very* clear after the iCloud announcement that iDisk was going away and iCloud wasn't going to provide a comparable interface to let a user store files. While someone could undoubtedly use the iCloud APIs to write an application that lets you store files of your own choosing (i.e. an iDisk-replacement), it's a good bet Apple would refuse to approve the app precisely because it would be an iDisk replacement.
Re: (Score:3)
There are apps that turn your iDevice into a "thumb drive" - files accessible via iTune
Re: (Score:2)
It's a good bet Apple would refuse to approve the app precisely because it would be an iDisk replacement.
I suppose it's by this rationale that the Dropbox app has been forbidden for a year now. Oh wait, that never happened.
Re: (Score:2)
It has documents sync, nowhere in the docco does it mention limitations on file type. You pay for your storage and you store your shit...
Nope. You pay for your applications' storage and your applications store their stuff.
Apple made it *very* clear after the iCloud announcement that iDisk was going away and iCloud wasn't going to provide a comparable interface to let a user store files. While someone could undoubtedly use the iCloud APIs to write an application that lets you store files of your own choosing (i.e. an iDisk-replacement), it's a good bet Apple would refuse to approve the app precisely because it would be an iDisk replacement.
Those apps that read PDFs and whichever one you have assigned a particular PDF to has those assigned PDF files attached to the app. I've got hundreds of PDFs in iBooks. They are all backed up in iCloud.
Re:It just proves analyst are complete idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
IT backed up the PDF files that goodreader had in it's data file area. so it DOES back up PDF files. I'm guessing the idiot that wrote the article is whining about some app that is poorly written, and everyone is simply joining in on the whining without any facts.
I havent checked in iBooks, but I am betting they havent released an update to that app to take advantage of iCloud yet. While Goodreader had a new version ready to go.
Re: (Score:3)
If you use iCloud for backup it backs up whatever you tell it to. Whether your whole device, or just specific apps and their data. If you have an app that works with PDF files they will get backed up to iCloud.
GoodReader has an update to work with iCloud. I can upload PDF documents with it into iCloud. Yes, I just did it with an iPad, and it worked just fine.
I could then use GoodReader on any other iOS device to get access to those PDFs.
From what I've seen it is app specific, or at least company specifi
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course it backs up PDF files.
What, you think the story is telling the truth? Come on! It's a classic Apple bash story from a site looking for page hits and the slashdot trolls will fall for it hook, line and sinker and report this as "fact" from now on.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Why would you 'edit' a PDF in iCloud? The whole point is that any docs are immediately synced to any device. In other words they are stored locally. You edit it locally and the updates are immediately pushed to every device in your cloud.
Why would you want to 'edit in the cloud' with no benefit?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It just proves analyst are complete idiots (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a blog post by a company trying to sell a cloud document editing and management product. What did you expect them to do when Apple started giving away the 10% of their product that 90% of their potential customers would actually use, for free?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Itsdapead's conflicted copy (Score:2)
But I also think you're right, it isn't DropBox
...and I've seen people get into a right knot with DropBox when its used as anything more than an alternative to emailing files. Its a great fallback when trying to exchange files that are too big to email, but its not much good for collaborative work.
Creating a sharing/syncing/collaboration service for editable files that won't confuse the hell out of Apple's target non-techie customers is a non-trivial exercise. (Hint: syncing and sharing music/video/books - even emails and, to some extent, photos - is
Re: (Score:3)
Yes. How could analysts possibly compare iCloud to other cloud services. What cloud they possibly have in common? And Apple's talk of "automatic daily backups" should have been taken in the context of the iPhone, which as everyone who has one knows the iPhone "backup" is a skeletal husk of a thing.
I never really expected iCloud to amount to much (it is replacing 2 failed Apple cloud services, after all). And it is a first rollout. But even I was hoping for a little more in the way of integrated sync ou
Re: (Score:2)
Again, how dare you bring truth and fact into this.
Did you not know that you are supposed to bash apple on every turn? Bash Bash Bash.. It's what the cool kids that cant afford an iPhone do.
Re: (Score:2)
Again, how dare you bring truth and fact into this.
Did you not know that you are supposed to bash apple on every turn? Bash Bash Bash.. It's what the cool kids that cant afford an iPhone do.
It has nothing to do with not being able to afford an iPhone. It's instead a (possibly unfair) emotional reaction based on previous Apple behaviors that slashdotters have perceived to have affected them negatively. Remember when Microsoft was killing other worthwhile companies, abusing its monopoly, bribing governments, etc? When they were perceived as the "big bad bully on the block", slashdotters ripped on everything Microsoft did, even if they did something moderately useful at times.
Now, Apple is per
Re: (Score:2)
Re:just proves excuse-making fanboys are idiots (Score:2)
A storage/cloud service with crippled functionality by a company with billions of dollars to spend is always mockable, no matter what the vendor promises the customer. Oh, and Jobs is dead, no one with vision to oversee beating and maiming the little chinese children that make your next fashion accessory.
Re:It just proves analyst are complete idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, this article badly misunderstands what iCloud is for.
First, it's a backup service for iOS devices that eliminates the need to sync them with with a computer, effectively untethering iOS devices. And yes, if an app stores PDFs, images, movies, whatever, within its data store, iCloud will back them up. Once your iOS device is backed up to iCloud, if you happen to drop it in the ocean, you can go buy a new one, sync it to iCloud, and all of your stuff (with the exception of non-iTunes music if you don't have the $25/year iTunes Match) will simply come back.
Geeks like us have trouble understanding the value of a service like this to average end users, but it's huge. Most consumers, to this day, still don't have backups of any kind, and virtually none have off-site backups. Apple reportedly had lots of people coming into Apple stores who hadn't synced their iOS devices since first setting them up, and would therefore lose considerable amounts of data if device replacement was required. iCloud simply makes these problems go away for people. It makes off-site backups simply happen by default, rather than requiring the user to understand the importance of them and go out of his/her way to make them happen.
Secondly, iCloud a seamless sync service designed to be integrated into apps. With an iCloud-enabled version of Pages or another iWork apps, you can be working on a document on your Mac, grab your iPad and run out the door, and keep working on that document there -- even if you didn't explicitly save your most recent changes. You can add a reminder in the new Reminders app on your iPad, and seconds later it will also show up in the equivalent app on your iPhone. You can start playing a game on your iPhone, and your progress can be seamlessly synced to your iPad, so you can keep playing there from exactly where you left off. Third-party developers can add features like this to their apps using a trivially simple API, with no need to own/rent their own cloud infrastructure or write a single line of server-side code.
Comparing iCloud to Dropbox doesn't really make a ton of sense. The services are designed to do very different things. The only real overlap is in the instance of things like syncing iWork documents... but even there, the approach is conceptually different. Dropbox is "a folder that syncs" iCloud is a data sync service intended to be integrated by developers.
Describing iCloud as "underwhelming" is effectively a compliment to Apple. It's supposed to be invisible. A decade from now, non-savvy users will simply take it for granted that their data is magically propagated between their devices, and it won't even occur to them to think about the mechanism through which this occurs.
easy to say when it will have a "dropbox" (Score:2)
Exactly. On phones and pads, notice that regular people don't think 'filesystem'. Why should they?
As far as I can tell, that's the most important conceptual change distinguishing a "post-PC" device, not a touchscreen.
Sometime later, say MacOS Liger or something, iCloud will talk to MacOS Finder and then files will be shared in a dropbox, because iCloud will support the natural things that a filesystemish OS does because there's a client for it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It isn't rsync. (Score:2)
You won't be able to understand what it is until you stop trying to think of it as rsync.
Re: (Score:2)
Why are you attacking me?
Re: (Score:2)
Never in any presentation did apple commit to any of those features.
It's a personal sync service, backup service.
That's it. It's storage somewhere, it's a sync service for your photographs between devices, and in a bit it'll be a music service for yourself.
So, iCloud is only a personal backup service.
That doesn't let me choose what to backup.
Good one.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree. I was very interested in iCloud, but I never expected it to replace my invaluable dropbox.
iCloud is for my music, movies, contacts. Basically storage for my iDevices.
Dropbox is for my documents.
Duh (Score:2, Insightful)
iCloud was not meant to address collaborative cloud document working. That functionality was never mentioned or even hinted at. Stupidest article ever.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No, you just can't get it from the app store anymore.
I have a number of apps that were pulled for using private APIs which still work (haven't tried them on iOS 5 yet) and can be restored to any of my devices from my iTunes backups.
Re: (Score:2)
It's pretty hard to collect on a bet for "never."
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Last fall, Apple released their App Store Approval Guidelines [apple.com]. The relevant guideline—the only place where the word "duplicate" appears in the guidelines—is quoted on Stackoverflow [stackoverflow.com]:
If you were to write and submit your own app that connected to Dropbox, it might get rejected. Given th
I don't get Apple (Score:2, Interesting)
The interface to the iPhone is via iTunes. I tried to put a pdf on my wife's iPhone for her because she couldn't figure out how and I couldn't figure out how to do it via iTunes either. Finally, a friend with an iPhone told me the easiest way to do it is to email it and use the phone to grab the emailed file. Doesn't Apple think that people use their phones for anything but listening to music and looking at photos? Oh yeah, there are all sorts of apps, but how does anyone who works for a living get busi
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I don't get Apple (Score:4, Informative)
Err, I dunno what you were doing wrong, but PDF's show up as Books in iTunes, its a simple drag and drop, and then view them in iBooks on your phone.
Re: (Score:3)
To be fair, while this is easy, it isn't exactly obvious. It requires you to understand that the document conduit that iTunes provides is segregated by application.
Re: (Score:2)
If you want to get a PDF into the iPhone via iTunes you do have to go through 2 steps, I don't know why that is, but what you do is drag it into iTunes as a book and then sync it to your phone. You can't drag it directly onto the phone apparently. I'm not sure why this is, but I would say it is easier than emailing it to yourself.
Re: (Score:2)
It's non-obvious, but possible.
If you're using iBooks, you have to have "Manually manage music and videos" checked. This turns off syncing of music, videos AND books. Then you can
Re: (Score:2)
The interface to the iPhone is via iTunes. I tried to put a pdf on my wife's iPhone for her because she couldn't figure out how and I couldn't figure out how to do it via iTunes either.
Yes - its one of the weak spots of iOS.
Doesn't Apple think that people use their phones for anything but listening to music and looking at photos?
Possibly they think that the one method of exchanging files between devices that almost everybody can cope with is by sending an email. Which works well.
Alternative solution 1: install DropBox on the iPhone - the only limitation is that the iOS iWork apps can't save modified files *back* to DropBox, so you have to email them back once they're edited. OTOH I've seen people get really confused once they start *updating* files on DropBox, so maybe that's no bad thing.
Re: (Score:2)
From what I can tell, the nice thing about iCloud is that it takes the items that use the most space, music, and stores it for no additional charge. Presumably this costs Apple nothing because they just keep
Its ok, I'm sure Jobs will save... (Score:2)
...Oh wait. Damn.
Obligatory (Score:3, Funny)
Competitor (Score:3)
While I own no Apple products and use none of their services, I find this article to have no content. Why would a competitor praise their service? As a CEO of Box.net, it is his job to say why his service is better than Apple's. We can argue amongst ourselves whether those omissions noted are important for a cloud service or not, but this article has no point.
Re: (Score:2)
Not only does it have no point, it's factually incorrect. You can back up PDFs to iCloud till the cows come home.
I Think I've Heard This Story Before (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple: We're coming out with a new product. It's a pill that'll give you surprisingly good night vision.
Apple Zealots and various talking heads: Oh. My. God. The iPill will CURE CANCER.
The Other Zealots and various talking heads: Pssh. Will it make my headaches go away? Will it stop indigestion? I just can't see how anyone would want this where there are so many better pills already on the market.
months pass
Apple: Here it is: The iPill. Take one, and you can have 20/20 vision in the dark for an entire month.
Apple Zealots: Oh. My. God. This is soooo disappointing! And it doesn't even cure cancer! We thought it was going to cure cancer!
Other Zealots: Hah! Oh, Apple's really screwed themselves this time. All this stupid pill does is give you night vision! Big deal--you can get night-vision goggles that can be turned off, are half the price and don't need to be swallowed! You idiots really missed big time on this one!
months pass
Apple: The iPill has sold over ten bajillion units, and we've made more money on it than god raised to the god power. Night vision goggles are now considered obsolete. Soon, we'll release the iPill 2, which will add the ability to see into the ultraviolet spectrum.
Apple Zealots: Yaaaaaay! Finally, a cure for CANCER!
Other Zealots: ARRRGEGHRHRHGA People are such fucking stupid SHEEP
Re: (Score:3)
Well, if you replace revolutionary medical breakthroughs with stupidly easy to use interfaces and streamlined packaging for features we've already seen, you've nailed it!
Re: (Score:2)
Well, if you replace revolutionary medical breakthroughs with stupidly easy to use interfaces and streamlined packaging for features we've already seen, you've nailed it!
True, some of the features are pretty basic and, well, comparing ANYTHING to the cure for cancer is kind of rediculous.
But in some ways, his humorous analogy is quite apt.
I mean, take the iPhone4S release / announcement. People were assuming it would have bigger screen, new case, new screen-tech, could teleport you to the Enterprise-D, cure male-pattern-baldness, and use LTE on AT&T's non-LTE network. Instead it was just a basic performance upgrade, IOS5, and Sirii.
It's the hype machine: the apple-fans
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My favorite bit is people operating on bad 'facts' then pointing at others shouting 'Reality Distortion Field!!!'
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think you got that story a little wrong.
Apple introduces the iPill that provides 20/20 vision. Apple's customers respond that there are many solutions to 20/20 vision and that what we really need is a cure for cancer. Apple responds that you definitely do not want a cure for cancer because it might compromise 20/20 vision. Fanbois proclaim that 20/20 vision is the only thing preventing a perfect life and only Apple is genius enough to think up a solution.
Apple then introduces the iPill v2 which offer
BEST COMMENT EVAR (Score:2)
I think you captured the state of Apple's relationship with the media and general public perfectly. Bravo! I hope you get 1 million mod points.
Re: (Score:2)
You win the internet sir. Bravo.
Re: (Score:2)
Free reskin of MobileMe (Score:2)
Looking at the OS X preferences panel for iCloud, it just looks like a rehash of MobileMe (which was just a rehash of .mac). I'm flipping back and forth between the preferences pages for iCloud and for MobileMe, and they seem to offer nearly identical services (though MobileMe costs money).
Re: (Score:2)
That's because iCloud is a superset of MobileMe. MobileMe is being phased out.
Re: (Score:2)
That's because iCloud is a superset of MobileMe. MobileMe is being phased out.
And here is what REALLY frosts me about Apple. You are correct - but Apple is saying fuck all about exactly how this works or doesn't. Yes, you need iOS 5 to run iCloud (stupid, but their call). Will Apple say anything specific about whether or not you can use MobileMe (which, after all, is supported for another year) on iOS 5 and if so, exactly what are the issues (if any). They do this ALL OF THE TIME. Really weak answers to anything substantive. It's as if, for everyone other than the developers a
/. Moderators (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Even so, Apple has some 'splaining to do. I upgraded my Mac to 10.7.2 yesterday, which includes iCloud. I don't have any other iDevices, and I don't want my stuff uploaded anywhere. I opened up the iCloud prefs to specifically say DO NOT WANT. I logged in and unchecked all the boxes.
Today I open it up again. Surprise! Contacts, Calendar, Bookmarks, and Documents & Data are all checked, even though I specifically unchecked them yesterday. What's more, when I go to uncheck them again I get this:
"If y
Wow, how low has slashdot fallen? (Score:2)
Anonymous rantings snarkily purveying incorrect information given the dignity of a slashdot posting? "News for nerds"? Or just another gizmodo-like Android fan site? Is it any wonder the number of readers here is plummeting?
Re: (Score:2)
Anonymous rantings snarkily purveying incorrect information given the dignity of a slashdot posting? "News for nerds"? Or just another gizmodo-like Android fan site? Is it any wonder the number of readers here is plummeting?
Most people above 30 have moved on from Slashdot. I check in but it's the least viewed site I visit.
No PDF? This would disagree (maybe) (Score:2)
Here-
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4942 [apple.com]
2nd question down. I think you need iWork to do it (maybe?) Dang help piece is all over the place.
Don't you just love new stuff?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Until next year when Finder uses it.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. In very much the same way that the iPad was never trying to compete directly against the featureset of netbooks.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
They see "the cloud" as a "Web 2.0".. (or 2.5 depending on who you ask) short term money maker.
They see Amazons success and want to invest in their own cloud, but not by much. So it is outsourced to people who have no idea or concept of what it actually entails. Of course, neither do the bosses who want it.
So this is no surprise and it wont be the only company that fails this badly at launch. I know of a few that are
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They were thinking that they'd provide a free data syncing service for first-party and third-party apps, and that's exactly what iCloud is. Who cares if the NY Times claimed it might kill DropBox? It wasn't intended to.
Re: (Score:2)
Of course! Apple never fails at anything. They just didn't want to succeed in the first place.
goes back to measuring the time constant for the decay of the reality distortion field.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Apple's E-World online service in the 90's? And even their ongoing kludge of .Mac that this cloud is supposed to replace/fix hasn't really been up to Apple ease-of-use/slick experience.
Re: (Score:2)
Let's see what the OP links to: NY Times, an iCloud competitor and a cloud computing site.
Probably you used to classify news sources about Apple into two categories: Steve Jobs/"some random dude on the Internet", so now only one category is left.
Re: (Score:2)
Apple's already going all pear shaped.
iCarly predicted this years ago [wikia.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Pear-shaped? Where did you infer that from?
Re: (Score:2)
Apparently the Haterade drinkers copied the technology and are performing a live-fire exercise.
Re: (Score:2)
Apple has a long history of screwing up this kind of service. They've released .mac and mobile me, and that's just what they've done in the last decade. If you're an innovator, you're not going to get every product right.
Re: (Score:2)
...and that revision of the device actually flopped.
So this is a nice self-nuke you have there. You're just too blindered to notice or acknowledge.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Think before you mess with the pink?