Samsung May Try To Block Next iPhone In Europe Too 271
phonewebcam writes with a report in The Register about the ongoing spat between Samsung and Apple. From the article: "Samsung could try to get the iPhone 5 delayed or banned in Europe, a source has told South Korea's Maeil Business Newspaper today. The Korean giant is considering a lawsuit against the next version of the Apple smartphone due in October, in the expectation that iPhone 5 will make use of some basic telecoms technology that Samsung has patented. ... It comes a day after The Korea Times quoted an anonymous Samsung exec saying that the company would attempt to do the same thing in Korea."
The cliche practically coined for this occasion... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:5, Insightful)
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Or cutting off your nose to spite your face is fair play bitch. Samsung makes more money selling iPhones than Samsung phones...I would imagine it is quite a bit more profitable too.
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No - Samsung is making some money off of components, but Apple is the one getting the lion's share of the profit.
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Samsung presumably sells their components at a profit....
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Could you cite your source please?
Apple has 18% of the global smartphone market share. Samsung is very close to that, with 17%.
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You may wish to learn how to read.
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Seems like Samsung should just stop that contract.. and see what happens as Apple has to source flash memory from multiple suppliers to keep up with demand..
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Apple, so rumor has, has been reducing the Samsung slice of the BOM substantially of late(A4, Samsung, A5, somebody else, I'm not sure what they are doing for flash memory...), out of some mixture of desire to get a better deal and reprisal against a competitor. Once the slice falls below a certain level, it stops making sense to tolerate Apple's legal shenanigans in order to move more components, and starts making sense to t
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Samsung will still be making the A5. The rumors are that TSMC will make the A6. I can see why you would dump a supplier that steals your designs. I can't see why you would dump attack a massive customer of one of the conglomerates core businesses just to prop up the mobile division.
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Stealing design of a rectangular device with rounded corners is shameless indeed.
I wonder, why does one need a Fab to steal that...
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple has changed to many other suppliers for its components (the A5 chip comes to mind) so this argument is not valid anymore. Samsung stated that at first, they bent over and let Apple have their way in order to keep a 'healthy' business relation. But after the Galaxy line got blocked in the EU, generating a huge loss, Apple choosing other manufacturers over Samsung, and still acting like a small female dog over patents, Samsung has become quite angry and now Pandora's box is open it seems. I sincerely hope they destroy Apple or at least let them bleed with their childish tactics: crying that they are the underdog while suing all competition out of the market.
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Or cutting off your nose to spite your face is fair play bitch. Samsung makes more money selling iPhones than Samsung phones
Citation? Samsung is making a huge profit [theaustralian.com.au] right now through their smartphone sales, whilst their profits from most other components is falling. In Q2 of this year, Samsung sold way more phones [arstechnica.com] than Apple. Phone sales, right now, are top dollar for Samsung.
And if Apple's sales of an iPhone5 gets blocked, what do think will happen to Samsung's sales? Do you think they might just happen to rise even further?
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:4, Funny)
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Always bet on BLACK.
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:4, Informative)
“You don't mess with the 800 pound gorilla!” [wikipedia.org]
is more apropos. Samsung is the GE of S. Korea
Here is a list of industries under Samsung
Electronics
Shipbuilder
Financial
Chemical
Retail
Entertainment
Flash memory
Aviation
Optical storage
Mobile phones
Smartphones
Hard disk drives
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:5, Informative)
Wow... I had no idea Samsung was so big.
Samsung / Apple
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Funny to see what an absurd profit Apple makes on its customers, compared to the competition, and then have all the fanbois defend that as a unique selling point. The Stockholm syndrome comes to mind...
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:4)
Funny to see what an absurd profit Apple makes
You're right. Apple shouldn't be allowed to make any profit.
Or do you think that they should be able to, but you think that the actual amount of profit they should be able to earn should be decided by someone else, like you?
The Stockholm syndrome comes to mind...
What should we call the syndrome that makes whiny haters trot out boring, over-used, poorly-applied mems like that, phrased in a way to make it sound like they're really clever and just thought it up? Really? You were betting your see-how-cool-I-am comment on the hopes that people hadn't already seen that misplaced bit of snarkiness a thousand times already? Let me guess, you also use "M$" when referring to Microsoft, because that is just so damn inventive on your part, right?
Anyway, back to profit. Please mention the correct profit number that Apple should make so that you won't hate them. A precise number would be ideal, thanks.
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Good job missing the entire point.
Nah, I know exactly what he's saying - directly and indirectly. He comes right out and tells us that Apple's profits are absurd and that (by implication) hostage-like people who don't know their own minds on the subject are defending them. He dissaproves of Apple's earnings, and he's derisively complaining about the people who buy things from Apple. It's not exactly complicated.
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So what you're saying here is that, despite being a larger company, Apple is less diverse and requires nearly 3x the revenue of Samsung per year to make less net profit.
Samsung, on the other hand, makes basic technologies and innovations that allow companies like Apple to exist in the first place.
Gotcha.
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Quite right. I confused the headers. That's what I get for posting while half asleep.
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It did strike me as a little odd that Apple's numbers for revenues were so much higher given the differentials in the classes of products the two makes, but apparently not odd enough for me to re-check that I read it correctly.
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Apple has kicked a tiger square in the balls and is about to learn why that's not a smart play.
So, who's up for applesauce?
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That's not entirely true.
There are two ways sanity will get restored. One, someone in government wakes up one day and says "hey, this is a very stupid situation. I think we need to fix it so that this doesn't happen any longer!" The other is to allow and even promote stupidity to grow beyond absurdity at which point there will be no choice but t fix the problem.
I suspect we expect the second way to prevail in this case as any attempt to fix the problem now will result in massive resistance by players who
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:4, Informative)
Historically, you had the patent trolls sucking blood on the sidelines, and the little guys getting squished; but a more or less cold-war environment between the major players. Some sabre rattling and money moving about; but nothing that really upset the status quo. However, if it gets to the point where entire flagship product launches can be, and sometimes are, scotched by patent complaints to any one of an alphabet soup of assorted regulatory bodies, I suspect that the pressure to change the situation will be considerably greater.
As long as the major players can use patents to their advantage, at the (comparatively minor) cost of paying off a troll now and again, the situation will not change. If the pain moves sufficiently far up the food chain that nobody can ship anything, I'm guessing that the congresscritters of the world will be prodded into action...
Re:The cliche practically coined for this occasion (Score:4, Funny)
(Tired after hearing that Android "stole" from Apple ad nauseum)
Isn't it great to see (Score:2)
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How do you pick the bully when you are discussing enormous multinational consumer electronics companies using the legal system to try to disrupt their competitors?
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Apple is clearly the perceived aggressor, having started the litigation in this scenario. And Samsung is seen as defending itself. Had Samsung instigated this particular fight, they would be "rooted against" so to speak, excepting a certain anti-Applie contingent that will always hate and root aga
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Steve Jobs was notorious for bullying his employees. I had always hoped that one day I would see the headline "Berated Employee Finally Loses It and Kicks Steve Jobs Right in the Fucking Pancreas." Sadly, no one ever had the guts (or maybe his fanatical employees considered anything short of prostrating themselves in front of their messiah to be blasphemy).
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Sadly, no one ever had the guts
How would you know?
Re:Isn't it great to see (Score:5, Funny)
No, I never got past the "You must be at least this arrogant to enter" sign at the Apple Store entrance.
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Funny, if there were a slashdot filter for the same we might not even be reading this
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Re:Isn't it great to see (Score:4, Insightful)
Fight! (Score:2)
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Well, the Galaxy might be a Messier object, but it iPhone 5 isn't.
or was that the pun...
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Since all I can see is an unspecified galaxy I'm thinking it's much more likely to be an NGC object.
Today the iPhone... (Score:3)
Re:Today the iPhone... (Score:4, Insightful)
If they decide to block Samsung's products with frivolous lawsuits, then yeah... I expect that's what'll happen.
But so far, it's only Apple that's tried that.
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Hopefully all those manufacturers will be looking at the bullshit lawsuits Apple has been firing around to get Samsungs products blocked from various market and will be wondering if they're next. Maybe then they will all work together to try and get IP law brought up to date into a more sensible form that benefits all, as was originally intended, rather than a select few who game the system.
Unlikely (Score:3)
Unlikely, except perhaps for Nokia, since the others are all Android phone makers and the patents Samsung is using were borrowed from Google.
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The grandparent is thinking of HTC.
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If it was so obvious, then how come pre-iPhone every smartphone was either a Blackberry or a Blackberry wannabe? Post-iPhone practically every phone on the market looks like an iPhone, works like an iPhone, and RIM is a financial mess and also utilizing the 'copy-Apple' playbook.
I guess that's the problem with Apple's minimalist designs. It's always 'obvious' after they come out.
Really, this is Samsung's fault. All they had to do is use icons that differentiated the phone from the iPhone but instead they wa
Noooooo!!!! (Score:5, Funny)
It was as if millions of European hipsters suddenly cried out in pain, and were suddenly silenced.
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I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that the market share of Apple is higher in the US than in Europe...
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I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that the market share of Apple is higher in the US than in Europe...
But unless they have an extremely high level of empathy they won't be crying out in pain over the next iPhone being blocked in Europe
Problem (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Problem (Score:5, Funny)
it would be great idea, but Apple and Microsoft already have "being an asshole" patent in their pool.
You can't patent that, too much prior art.
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I don't know. I hear Sony recently patented "being clueless douchebags" and that had plenty of prior art.
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Good times (Score:2)
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Lawsuits require much less effort. If nothing else they slow the release of the products and give themselves a head start. It's a "can't lose" situation.
"It's okay when we do it" (Score:4, Funny)
This is blatant abuse of patent law and we need reform NOW. Information should be free and software patents are stupid and this is ridicul....
Wait, someone is doing this to Apple?
FUCK YEAH, it's about fuckin' time! This is awesome and I fully support this, go Samsung, FUCK YOU APPLE!! I HOPE YOU GET CANCER STEVE JOBS!!!!!
Re:"It's okay when we do it" (Score:5, Funny)
It's sort of like when you hear that someone got attacked by a pit bull. You feel sorry for them at first. But then you learn it was Hitler.
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Re:"It's okay when we do it" (Score:5, Informative)
Not quite as simple as you make it sound.
Apple has been slapping Samsung with weak "look and feel" patents.
Samsung is firing back with a bunch of core hardware patents... The patents they're using are closer in idea to what the patent system was originally designed for, as opposed to Apple patents which are an abuse of the patent system.
There is also the fact that Samsung is using these in a defensive role... Apple are a bunch of douchebags who rather than seek reasonable licensing fees (this happens a LOT and you never hear about it because sane companies ask for reasonable and non-excessive fees), immediately seek injunctions to have devices removed from the market.
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Who likes Apple, and why?! (Score:2)
Who likes Apple, and why?!
Samsung has all the sympathy due to Apple's pathetic and strung-up attempts to block a winning competitor.
Couldn't we just agree to dismiss Apple to the garbage bin? The world would be such a better place without them, copy-cats.
They are even rivals to Microsoft and SCO as to retarded campaigns.
I'm not sure which is worse... (Score:5, Interesting)
Choose one:
The whole situation has happened before, though. 150 years ago we had a similar war over the patents for sewing machines. It eventually led to the Sewing Machine Combination [wikipedia.org], which was a patent pool that created a 20-year cartel of four manufacturers. They were the only ones allowed to produce cutting-edge sewing machines.
Notably, the next major innovation in sewing machines (the rotary hook) sat unexploited until the combination expired in 1876 (sources here [wikipedia.org] and here [wikipedia.org].
The first one. (Score:2)
Your anecdote about the sewing machines explains why pretty well.
Cartels and imaginary property are two huge enemies of progress. What needs to happen is regulation of patent enforcement. If major show-stopper patents (or whatever legal mumbo-jumbo) like being a rectangle can be patented then you shouldn't be granted a monopoly on it. And that's no matter how long that monopoly lasts - technology these days moves forward exponentially faster than it used to.
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Sometimes I go all hippy-spiritual and think maybe patents slowing down progress is actually a good thing. The world is moving so fast, people can't keep up. If we can stave off progress for 14-28 years, that'll give us all time to catch up on the current technology before we have to start learning the new stuff.
Then of course I snap out of it.
No one can... (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically, with the current climate in the patent world, no one can really produce anything as complex as a smartphone, that does not infringe on someone else's patents or design.
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Climate change could be good... in the Patent World. Global warming in the Patent World might cause such violent storms that the ensuing peace would be a long time of great calm. A new age of the Patent World, in which technology will thrive without the chaos caused by unstable patents.
(Feels weird writing new age stuff.)
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Every smartphone manufacturer seems to be suing every other manufacturer. So if we take this to it's ultimate conclusion, then nobody will be able to release any smartphones, as all other manufacturers will be blocking them. Mabe if that happens, then we'll might see some sanity return.
Greed shot first (Score:2)
Isn't this bad for Samsung? (Score:2)
I know they're just fighting Apple on the same grounds but... with all the fanboys just waiting for the newest super greatest next product from Apple, won't this just hurt Samsung in the long run?
A pissed customer may never come back.
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It's worse if you allow a competitor (who is also a customer) limit your ability to do business.
Sometimes it's better to ignore bullies. But this is a bully bullying a bully. And this bully, in Korea, is treated as royalty. This bully's bully has the war-making backing and influence of their government. If you think the influence of business over government in the US is bad, you haven't seen what Samsung's influence over Korea is like.
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I understand that Samsung may have very loyal fans in Korea but this story is about Europe. Samsung may not be able to fight off Apple in the US but going and screwing Europeans hardly seems like an appropriate answer.
The problem here is how the patent system is being abused but the end result is millions across Europe may see themselves unable to buy iPhone 5. I couldn't care less, my cell phone does all I need but for some people having the latest gadget is the most important thing. If you see yourself un
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I understand that Samsung may have very loyal fans in Korea but this story is about Europe. Samsung may not be able to fight off Apple in the US but going and screwing Europeans hardly seems like an appropriate answer.
Actually, Samsung has very loyal fans all over the world. They're just not suffering from inferiority complex and don't see a brand as a religion, so you don't hear much from them.
They just like using good quality products which Samsung makes.
They are not emotionally attached to them.
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You could say the same about Apple. I think there are way more people with Samsung products that people with Apple products, therefore, according to your logic, Apple is screwed.
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My "logic" does not say anything about reciprocity. The difference in this case is Apple sells loads of iPhones and everyone knows what they are, whereas if you ask a random person what does the Samsung Galaxy S look like they won't know (obviously I'm not talking about us at Slashdot). A lot of people care about the iPhone and everyone knows what it is, a few people feel the same way about the Galaxy S.
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My guess is that most people see this as Samsung fighting back, so they are more likely going to be given a free pass. Now if Apple would offer to drop this whole nonsense and Samsung would continue to pursue them, that would likely turn public opinion against them.
Also Apple is in a somewhat unfortunate position here, because it's easy to understand why their patents on a rather trivial shape are stupid. I've worked a long time in telecom, so I suspect Samsung's patents might be just as stupid - most pat
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Apple fanboys are pathetic. Worthless hipster DOUCHEBAGS that don't know anything about technology and just buy the latest shiny device because a fancy commercial convinces them that they need it.
OMFG DROID BIONIC????!!! HOLY FUCKIN SHIT, that thing looks fuckin AWESOME. omfg DUAL CORE PROCESSOR and LTE, this thing makes my Thunderbolt that I just bought last month look like a pile of puke. I need that, I'm buying that the DAY IT COMES OUT.
Anyway, Apple fanboys are stupid and just buy the newest super greatest next product based on hype.
Its nice to see a reasoned and balanced argument here
Shouldn't that be RAND anyway? (Score:2)
If these are core cell patents, they would be RAND, and I can't see why Apple wouldn't have already licensed them.
Unless Samsung is trying to pull another Nokia, and that didn't work.
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Samsung hasn't actually done anything. I am sure some middle manager spouted off about getting back at Apple in Europe when the iPhone 5 comes out and then one reporter devised it must be true and now all the rumor and tech sites post it as fact.
Isn't this escalation? (Score:3)
Afterall I didn't think Apple were suing over patents, instead it was over the fact that Samsung had ripped off the iPhone interface for the Galaxy S etc. If Samsung went back to a more standard Android application launcher they could probably get this whole sorry mess sorted. Instead they are defending their right to use the the interface that Apple developed.
I thought that the patent infringement cases were with HTC.
Re:Isn't this escalation? (Score:4, Informative)
Nope. The injunction was under the insane and ridiculously vague EU Community Design [osnews.com] system. Specifically, apple drew something vaguely tablet-like on the back of a napkin before the ipad even existed, filed it - which results in automatic approval - then used it to sue Samsung years later, being sure to file in Germany since there's no requirement to inform the other party there.
I fail to see... (Score:2)
...how this is good for consumers, let alone how Useful Arts are being promoted.
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I don't blame them (Score:2)
Apple wasn't interested in any type of licensing agreement. They wanted Samsung's products ban. Why not return the favor? Apple wants to take a scorched earth approach to dealing with competition. By all means, give it to them.
Ah, Lawyers... (Score:2)
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Europe =/= Germany. Not that they didn't try, though. Apple *and* the Germans, that is.
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If that is found to be the case, the judge should then be asked to step down, on bias grounds. The same also goes for if he/she has a Nokia product.
Hope he/she uses a Droid and Xoom?
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I think I'm supposed to give you this whoosh. The joke centers around Apple's ability to retain control of devices, and how they would exert this control over the judge's ipad\pod\phone to influence the decision.
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One major point of difference is that Samsung has patents on actual pieces of electronics which are required for the phones to work the way they do, which took investment in research and development to achieve. Apple has patents on rectangles with rounded corners.
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Uh huh. iPhone [wikipedia.org] - 2007. LG Prada [wikipedia.org] - 2006.
"LG Electronics has claimed the iPhone's design was copied from the LG Prada. Woo-Young Kwak, head of LG Mobile Handset R&D Center, said at a press conference, “We consider that Apple copied the Prada phone after the design was unveiled when it was presented in the iF Design Award and won the prize in September 2006."
If you look at photos of both, with Prada's tablet like look and large capacitative touch screen, it's pretty clear the iPhone is just a rip-off