AppleCare Reps Told To Skirt Malware Questions 389
Dominare writes with this bit from ZDnet: "'A confidential internal Apple document tells the company's front-line support people how to handle customers who call about malware infections: Don't confirm or deny that an infection exists, and whatever you do, don't try to remove it.' So basically, now that Macs have their own equivalent to XP Antivirus the best you can hope for is to be pointed at the store where you can buy something that may or may not fix your problem ... nice."
Ignorance is strength (Score:3, Insightful)
Certainly the best way to deal with a problem is to deny that it exists altogether. I guess so long as people have faith that a mac is somehow immune (be it to actual virii or user error induced malware installs), and they keep selling, that's all that matters.
Steve must have been taking lessons from some govn't agencies.
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Certainly the best way to deal with a problem is to deny that it exists altogether.
Seems to have worked well enough for Arnold Schwarzenegger and for Sony. :)
Re:Ignorance is strength (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ignorance is strength (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple has NEVER denied that any computer, including it's own, is potentially vulnerable to exploits. Their position is the same as it's always been ... users should take appropriate precautions. At times in the past they've offered for free commercial anti-virus apps as part of AppleCare and DotMac.
Current users should download Sophos Antivirus for Mac. It's free.
So Apple have never said Mac's don't get viruses.
Even if that is true, they've inferred it plenty of times. I remember these ad's where they had one guy acting as a Mac and the other acting as a PC when only the PC got sick...
That is pretty much saying Mac's don't get viruses.
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Apple: "Fuck it, we're evil" (Score:2, Funny)
Apple declares: Fuck it, we're evil [newstechnica.com]
"But our stuff is sooo good. You’ll keep taking our abuse. You love it, you worm. Because our stuff is great. It’s shiny and it’s pretty and it’s cool and it works. It’s not like you’ll go back to a Windows Mobile phone. Ha! Ha!"
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so try not to be so smug when someone references it
What Problem? (Score:2)
Front-line support (Score:2)
Re:Front-line support (Score:4, Informative)
Shouldn't front-line support people actually know if it's actual bad malware or not? If it is, this is remarkably stupid to neither confirm nor deny that it even exists. That seems like it came from marketing, not tech support. sigh.
You should probably read the article. Apple is not telling its staff to deny that the malware exists, it is directing that the support staff should not confirm or deny that the software is installed on a specific Mac and should not try to remove it. Instead Apple is directing the customer to a specified documentation providing general information about malware. Apple is declining to remove software, which the customer has installed and subsequently changed their mind about. Sigh.
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You should probably read the article.
That ruins the fun of arguing in ignorance though! :P :)
Apple is not telling its staff to deny that the malware exists, it is directing that the support staff should not confirm or deny that the software is installed on a specific Mac
I will go read the article, but this is confusing. Neither confirming nor denying that a given piece of software is installed seems odd. Even if they are going to say "but you installed it, so we can't help you," why should they not be allowed to say "Yes, that software is installed." ... ?
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Ok, so I read it.
Apple is declining to remove software, which the customer has installed and subsequently changed their mind about. Sigh.
So here's what I don't understand. The user installed it. The user apparently figures out that's a problem and calls AppleCare. What's AppleCare there for? Only to answer questions/help users if there is an actual bug in an Apple product? I guess what I don't understand is this: I would have expected, at least eventually, to be helped even if it IS my mistake. Even Verizon does that. Mess up your wireless settings? They walk you through that. In fact, they walk you through that whe
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Shouldn't front-line support people actually know if it's actual bad malware or not? If it is, this is remarkably stupid to neither confirm nor deny that it even exists. That seems like it came from marketing, not tech support. sigh.
You act like they're separate divisions. =D
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You act like they're separate divisions. =D
Oops. For a minute, I bypassed reality. Sorry about that. ;)
Ed Bott "unbiased" article. (Score:2)
Enough said, although the internal memo from Apple smacks of "cover our ass" legal hot footing - they pretty much say "go look this up on the internet", which is not a great response, although this isn't actually a public response. No doubt there will be something forthcoming soon.
AppleCare techs *have* responded to people about how to remove it, although I guess that's not policy now, although given that it's still "an issue in progress" I expect these are temporary policies while they hammer something out
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not sure what the /. issue with the guy is
ed bott makes a living writing privately (for news sites and publishing his own books) on technology topics, mostly about windows - he likes windows, he writes about it, and publishes his work. getting paid to do what you like in a field that you like doesn't make you a shill. it makes you happy. it's a pretty cynical worldview, to assume that people aren't doing honest things because they like them, but instead dishonest things because a MegaCorp is paying them BIG
Re:Ed Bott "unbiased" article. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not at all, but look at the headline, and compare it to the actual content. While he does indicate in the article itself that Apple's stance on this is "ongoing investigation", he jumps right to the punchline and cherry picks some nice juicy bits out.
If he "likes windows and writes about it" then he sure does like his negative Apple stories too. Funny that - pro MS, anti-Apple... Now, I'm not accusing him of being a shill - I think the word is thrown around far too frequently and cynically around here (and note, I did not call him so in my OP), but there's not much positive coming from him on OS X, and plenty negative. One might suggest if he's that unhappy with OS X that he simply stop using it, or reporting on it, but those ad impressions are all important for the people who pay him I guess.
I've got no problem with positive MS writers, goodness I even know people who work for the small, Redmond-based software startup, but there's lately been an undertow of "sensationalise anything negative about Apple" in the tech press of late, this being one of those occasions (of course, alongside the usual tiresome Apple gadget hype, but when is that new?).
It's not that hard to remove.......... (Score:5, Informative)
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Don;t even need to do that - just pop open the terminal and kill the process then trash the app, or use Activity Monitor to kill it. Don;t even need to reboot. Reset Safari to kill any porn links or malware bookmarks it added and job done.
Fool proof way to hack nearly any system. (Score:5, Interesting)
hey, this is a web page claiming that your infected, click ok!!
umm, you clicked cancel, you really want to click ok, ok??
you know, it doesn't matter which button you push, both result
in the continuation of this racter like discussion.
wow, you clicked ok, wait while I install some software to 'help' you.
oh, while installing I noticed that I will need your password to continue....
wow, you gave me your password, can you google pwn3d ?
works on PC, works on Mac, likely works on every other modern OS.
this isn't an exploit via bug, its an exploit via user, if you drop your pants in front of a glory hole......
that said Apple isn't really helping by avoiding the topic.
Wow (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple employees are directed to not help you fix a problem with a bad application you chose to install AND chose to give root privs to.
And ... ?
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Please refrain from using logic, it interferes with the Two Minutes Hate.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Mac, the computer any stupid user can use, but don't come crying when you do something stupid. Despite the fact that we reassured you constantly that your own stupidity wasn't a problem, of course...
Can you guys just make up your minds? Is it the computer for everyman or just the tool of a bunch of elitist trend followers whose idea of "choice" is a locked down platform?
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
you guys are great.
Thanks!
Mac folks praise the hand holding and the fact that a Mac just won't let you do anything bad.
Dude, I live on the command line in my Mac. Won't let me do anything bad? On what planet?
Then in the same breath they say, well you're just stupid, it's your fault the hand holding, infallible Mac didn't stop you.
Nope: I say that on any platform that DOES give you the freedom Mac OS X gives you, this is literally unavoidable (well, except by being knowledgable enough to not do stupid things like installing rogue software and giving it root privs).
Can you guys just make up your minds?
Can you stop shooting down straw men?
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Errm... you know where most Windows malware infections come from these days, right?
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Errm... you know where most Windows malware infections come from these days, right?
Not really, no. Nor do I care, and neither do my comments have anything to do with Windows. :-)
If you're trying to make the argument that "these days" Windows is about as secure as a Mac, I'd doubt it, because I know people who still get lots of viruses ... but whatever, I really don't care. I wasn't making a comparison to other platforms.
Could have fixed it over a year ago (Score:5, Informative)
The crux of the current problem is a setting in Safari that allows the computer to open"safe" documents automatically. The issue with that checkbox has been known for over a year and its one of the things I remember to do is to uncheck it (as it has been defaulted to checked, open those documents.)
Apple could have done an update to uncheck that box, or better yet remove the feature, but it sadly remained and now they are going to have to pay for thier ignorance of the issue.
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This would slow some own, but those bent on infecting their computers would still find a way...
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You do realize this malware trojan still cannot infect you unless you give it your admin password? The fact that Safari opens up attachments that are considered safe is bad enough, yes but it does not expose a user to this issue. The user does that themselves by offering up their admin password.
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Because I keep all my most important stuff stored in the admin home directory and there is nothing in my home directory that a trojan could steal or use to my disadvantage.
hmm (Score:2)
What's the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is trying to protect themselves from becoming a helpdesk, which is something they are not. They are very clear about this. The Genius Bar is also, very clear about this. They are not a help desk, and in advanced cases support comes at a price. Just as apple is not on the other side of the phone to teach you what each keyboard shortcut does, they're not there to fix every little computer problem you have. You can't call apple if you delete a photo, and all the same you can't call apple if you clicked a link and had your system violated.
The major problem is that we now have to recognize exactly what this means. This does not mean that the mac is more or less vulnerable, because it's not - it is exactly as vulnerable as it was before. The problem is that as the total users of Apple computers grows, the ratio of of (minority) secure users to (majority) vulnerable users grows in distance. As the Apple becomes more popular, the chance of the user interacting with the system is likely to follow a malicious link, open a malicious email, or fall for a malicious ad, is greater; there is a higher chance that this user is the type of user interacting with the system, as these are the most common users on the internet.
This is a trend that was not witnessed with PCs, as by the time Malware became a heavy component of the PC/Internet world, PCs had penetrated every aspect of the general public. Mom and little brother would follow any link to their hearts content, would want to help the Nigerian Prince, and would feel obligated to save the Penguins of North Africa. Apple has now begun penetrating this market as well, and it can only be assumed that the same ignorance will also affect the Apple community.
You can secure a computer all you want, it's very difficult to keep most people from clicking the latest joke link and falling for any one of the thousands of ads they'll see in a 5 minute time period. The only perfect solution, is to not let them on the computer at all.
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Apple is trying to protect themselves from becoming a helpdesk, which is something they are not. They are very clear about this
Yes, the giant "We're here to help" headline on top of the Apple retail home page really slams that point home. http://www.apple.com/retail/ [apple.com]
"We’re here to help.... Geniuses provide hands-on technical support... Our Specialists help you get to know our products and answer your questions...."
"If you have technical questions about your Mac, iPad, iPod, Apple TV, or iPhone, the G
Confidentiality fail (Score:5, Funny)
A confidential internal Apple document
Speaking of security...
So, Apple is evil because of this? (Score:2)
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If you think Apple software is inherently secure, read up on some of the past Pwn2Own [wikipedia.org] contests.
Don't kid yourself - the only reason OS X doesn't have much malware (yet) is that Windows is used by far more people and is therefore a juicier target.
Re:OSX (Score:4, Informative)
To be fair, poorly configured linux servers are pwned all the time.
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To be fair, soccer moms aren't putting up web servers.
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To be fair, soccer moms aren't putting up web servers.
to be fair, soccer moms are putting up web cams all the time.
White Boxes on FC1. I rest my case. (Score:2)
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Re:OSX (Score:5, Interesting)
Yup. And Linux's dominant market share in the server space means that it's an even juicier target. Which is why you hear about so many pwnt Linux boxes on the web.
http://www.zone-h.org/news/id/4737 [zone-h.org]
Last year the Zone-H archived a sad record number, we archived 1.419.203 websites defacements. Why and how this is happening? [...] Since many years ago, Linux became the most used OS for webservers and of course the preferred target for the defacers. Last year we archived 1.126.987 attacks against websites running on the Linux systems. The most used exploit by the defacers is the CVE-2010–3301, that was fixed in 2007 and was mysteriously reintroduced in 2008, in a large pile of kernel versions x86_64.
You are obviously right - 80% of website defacements last year all dues to rooted Linux servers - and you don't hear about it, so it must not have happened.
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Yep, people seem to forget how much "Hackers looooooooooooooooove noodles". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramen_worm [wikipedia.org]
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Re:OSX (Score:4, Insightful)
if you use Windows you get infected just by connecting to the internet. I've never had such experience with my Mac.
I've never had such experience with my Windows box nor have millions of other Windows users. If they did, they would leave Windows by the millions a day looking to either OSX or word of Linux would spread like wildfire (like Facebook did for millions of people).
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I've never had such experience with my Windows box nor have millions of other Windows users.
Weird. I remember a co-worker doing a clean install of Windows XP on a PC a few years ago and it had been remotely infected by a worm before it even managed to install all the security updates from Windows Update.
And yes, giving it an unfirewalled network connection was probably a bad idea.
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I've never had such experience with my Windows box nor have millions of other Windows users.
Weird. I remember a co-worker doing a clean install of Windows XP on a PC a few years ago and it had been remotely infected by a worm before it even managed to install all the security updates from Windows Update.
And yes, giving it an unfirewalled network connection was probably a bad idea.
The final straw for me was the nice Microsoft support person (in India, from the accent) telling me that I'd have to disable my firewall in order to install XP SP1. This was despite me telling her that my cable link was getting several intrusion attempts per second (bad route requests, login attempts, etc.), and I doubted that an unprotected Windows could survive the hour or so that the upgrade would take. AFAIR this was back in 2003-ish, in response to my email complaints that the XP SP1 install failed on
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I did, about eight years ago. I was performing my yearly reinstall of Windows and the infamous W32.Blaster managed to infiltrate my system. It required no user interaction whatsoever and I couldn't even keep the damn computer on for more than 60 seconds to download the necessary patches or removal tool. I had to download them from a second, patched machine. So it's not the norm, but it has actually happened at least once. And I still kept on using Windows for quite some time after that, before switching to
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Re:You may not have noticed... (Score:4, Informative)
Like connect to the internet without first spending some money on one or more anti-virus packages? Windows is the only current OS which connects to the internet with its legs wide open.
Every Windows OS since XP SP2 has had the Firewall built in and turned on by default.... Nice try though
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Re:You may not have noticed... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll never understand why people like you spread so much FUD. I mean if you don't like Windows - don't use it. Why make stuff up? And if you make stuff up at least make it logical.
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Welcome to our world. I agree that the OP is spreading Windows FUD like it's going out of style, but I guess you just got a taste for what it;s like to be a Mac/iOS user for a few minutes on slashdot. You just have to roll with it - some people just get set in a "xxx sucks/is evil!" mindset and you can't really argue with it.
FTR, I am ambivalent about other people's operating system choice: use what works for you. I do find though, that I have to defend my own choice of OS far more often than I ever give a
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Why would you have to defend your choice of OS? It's not like a rabid slashdotter can confiscate your machine or swap it for a Windows/Linux/Solaris/"Os/2" box unless you make your case. Can't you just read a critique of your OS of choice, analyze it and, if you find it to be valid, then wonder if it makes any difference for you? It's really simple, usually takes less than a second and does not require feeding trolls. If it takes more time than that or demands a certain amount of research, then you're learn
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What I mean, and I think you know, is the constant stream that Apple users are "sheep" or "worship at the altar of jobs" or that "OS X is a toy OS" or "Apple users have been duped into using Apple products because there are absolutely no redeeming features or other thought processes, it's all marketing". You know, the usual stuff, all very common on slashdot.
Surprisingly there's very little critique of users who use other OSes, certainly not to this extent.
It reaches a point that you need to fill your post
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You are correct, the OS X software firewall is off by default, and it should be on. However, it is mitigated somewhat because all the remote services (file sharing, ftp, ssh, remote login etc) are all off by default. This doesn't excuse the lack of default on, however.
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Like connect to the internet without first spending some money on one or more anti-virus packages?
You're obviously doing it wrong, if you're getting viruses or malware by simply connecting to the internet then you're an idiot.
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Re:OSX "Yawn" (Score:2)
To be fair, I have never had any malware with OSX and I'm certain I will not..
Welcome to relevant market share.
We Linux guys got the problems long enough, i also had to reinstall a VM because i forgot to change a default password.
You think XServe is dead because it was better?
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OSX by its roots (BSD) means it doesn't get the kind of malware that plagues all those M$ Windows computers.
Security by association? Many windows holes aren't a direct attack on the kernel either. Most expose vulnerabilities in network services or commonly used apps. If you think that OSX is immune from infection due to some mystic link to an OS written by bearded folk you're delusional. Every programmer at some point leaves a bug that could be exploited in a network attached program. Even programs like OpenSSH (with your precious BSD heritage) have had their fair share of vulnerabilities in the past.
Malware is a
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OSX by its roots (BSD) means it doesn't get the kind of malware that plagues all those M$ Windows computers.
Security by association? Many windows holes aren't a direct attack on the kernel either. Most expose vulnerabilities in network services or commonly used apps..
Among those: Norton's Antivirus.
"saw him good" celebrity software (Score:3)
Even programs like OpenSSH (with your precious BSD heritage) have had their fair share of vulnerabilities in the past.
Clue me in, what is the "fair share" for a program such as OpenSSH? A zero-day on OpenSSH is the rough equivalent of raising the Libyan flag at the center of the Pentagon.
I can't stand the thinking that buffer overflows are a fact of life. Only if you believe that shoddy workmanship is a fact of life. Subtle edge cases in a tricky protocol account for maybe 1% of the buffer overflows out there. The majority are copy first, ask questions later. There are plenty of these people out there programming comp
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To be fair, I have never had any malware with OSX and I'm certain I will not. OSX by its roots (BSD) means it doesn't get the kind of malware that plagues all those M$ Windows computers. I feel safe with OSX and have no need for antivirus. If you give our your root password to a random program, well, you're stupid. But if you use Windows you get infected just by connecting to the internet. I've never had such experience with my Mac.
...and the Steve was God, amen.
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To be fair, I have never had any malware with OSX and I'm certain I will not. OSX by its roots (BSD) means it doesn't get the kind of malware that plagues all those M$ Windows computers. I feel safe with OSX and have no need for antivirus. If you give our your root password to a random program, well, you're stupid. But if you use Windows you get infected just by connecting to the internet. I've never had such experience with my Mac.
This is the problem Apple is going to have when it gains a respectable marketshare, the masses seem to think OSX is magically safe from viruses and malware, when in actuality it's just too tiny of a target.
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To be fair, I have never had any malware with OSX and I'm certain I will not. OSX by its roots (BSD) means it doesn't get the kind of malware that plagues all those M$ Windows computers.
To be fair, I have never had any malware with Windows and I'm certain I will not. All (read that again, "all") operating systems are vulnerable to malice, and all (once again, "all") operating systems can be made mostly impervious to malice. All it takes is a little proactive prevention. In a system like Linux, it's configuring your security and permission settings properly and modifying software settings so they're not running on default ports, etc. And keeping everything up to date at all times. On Window
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To be fair, I have never had any malware with OSX and I'm certain I will not. OSX by its roots (BSD) means it doesn't get the kind of malware that plagues all those M$ Windows computers.
To be fair, I have never had any malware with Windows and I'm certain I will not. All (read that again, "all") operating systems are vulnerable to malice, and all (once again, "all") operating systems can be made mostly impervious to malice. All it takes is a little proactive prevention. In a system like Linux, it's configuring your security and permission settings properly and modifying software settings so they're not running on default ports, etc. And keeping everything up to date at all times. On Windows where things aren't so customizable, you are usually best off behind a hardware and/or software firewall with realtime and scheduled-scan antivirus software running. On Macs you haven't really needed to worry much because Macs have never been a target for widespread malice. On all systems, user incompetence can completely outdo even the strongest security configurations because all you need to do is download miley_cyrus_real_nude_pic.jpg.exe, run it, enter your root password, and hit Allow Forever on every antivirus popup that opens.
As the Mac market share increases, Mac malware will become more and more widespread. Just you wait. The only reason they have the least viruses (note that they DON'T have NO viruses) is because the market share has been so small that Windows has been a much more profitable target.
I forgot to add that the above steps will mostly protect you from automated attacks. A dedicated, knowledgeable, and well-versed individual trying to manually break your box can probably do so given enough time and just one slip-up on the victim's part.
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If you give our your root password to a random program, well, you're stupid.
Actually, you no longer have to give out the root password. The unix security model has long since been replaced on linux and OSX systems with a scheme that accepts your personal password, and "escalates" it to root permission. If you use the sudo(8) command, you may have noticed that it now asks for your password rather than root's, and that suffices to get root permission. This means that if you've given your own password to any of those popup windows that request it, you have given them "root" access
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No, I don't think so. I did it again, typed "id -r -u" and "id -r -g" command, and both gave me 0. My real and effective uids and gids are all 0; I have full root permissions. And I didn't need to type the root password, just my login's password.
Granted, I did this as an admin user. That's also the default setup for OSX, and very few Mac users (and not many more linux users) would have any idea how to correctly set up an account that can't be escalated to root this way.
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Most likely yes, but without knowing to what extent Apple has looked into the issue or what the status with that is, it might be a legitimate policy when they don't have firm answers. Bad information can definitely be worse than no information.
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115.2 mm (4.54 in) (h)
58.66 mm (2.309 in) (w)
9.3 mm (0.37 in) (d)
Can I get a "woosh"?
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No, it was a reasonably observation. I don't own any Apple products, never have and likely never will, but you have to recognize that if they haven't finished whatever investigation they need to do, they can easily make things worse by making the wrong recommendation.
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Your fucking system is infected.
Not making a recommendation while the user likely CONTINUES TO USE THE INFECTED SYSTEM is IRRESPONSIBLE.
How the hell is this a difficult concept to understand?
Re:So? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
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MS includes a monthly malware detection scan in Windows Update. The also supply the free Security Essentials and support for using it.
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Re:So? (Score:5, Informative)
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I agree. If you read the memo, installation of the "malware" requires authorization from the user. If you choose to do that, the OS vendors hands are clean. Apple isn't responsible for removing software you installed.
Yes but Dell does (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is Apple is NOT an OS maker, they are a system maker. In particular they make a unified system where they do it all. If you talk to a Mac head this is one of the things they talk about being so great, that Apple creates a "unified experience" and supports everything. They push the model of "Just bring it to the Mac store," as how you handle support and all that.
Fine but that means that you are going to get questions about malware and the like. They can't play it off with "But MS doesn't help!" They are selling the "We are the company that takes care of you and makes everything," they get to deal with the support calls.
Also, MS DOES in fact help with that shit. If nothing else they publish the malicious software removal tool (which Windows get automatically) and make Microsoft Security Essentials available for free. While they don't do everything, they do provide free tools to help.
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"Microsoft doesn't support removal of the hordes of malware on it's platform either."
Bullshit. Microsoft Security Essentials.
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Microsoft provides free telephone support for security issues to all customers, regardless of whether the software was purchased at retail or as part of a new PC.
The top post of the article linked to also has a poster making this same comment, and the article details Microsoft's policy on assistance for malware removal.
Also, as has been stated, Apple is not just the OS but the system manufacturer. I don't know to what extent HP, Dell, or other system manufacturers support malware removal, but for the premium price I would have thought they would have better support. Oh well, I guess Apple will just stick to blocking you loading 3rd party apps and porn on your smar
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All sold by Microsoft.
Its like when you buy office software from an Apple Store and they showing you Microsoft Office. They didn't program it, but they will happily sell it to you, thus the the Apple store does sell office programs. And games, music, movies on iTunes but they didn't make any of them.
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Well if you count the cost of the OS, then yes, you did.
Re:So? (Score:5, Informative)
They gave me a free GigE card (at their suggestion) when I had problems with the built in ethernet on the logic board on a Powermac G5 and didn't have the time to take it in for repair because it was an edit machine.
They replaced my brother's iBook, 3 days out of warranty, because it was close to the expiry date and it was unfortunate.
They shipped a fresh set of Universal Binary Final Cut Studio disks to me for postage cost when the Intel switch came about, so we wouldn't have to buy the newer version of the suite to be able to run it natively.
Oh I'm sure I have a few more.
They also do "Macs form [sic] dummies" for those who yank their power cord from the wall socket by the cable and wonder why it frays and catches fire, or who throw their laptop in a bag with no case and wonder why the surface gets all scratched and so on.
They also deal with regular people who have hardware and software problems.
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Apple's CS by itself, is a big sell in its favor. Bought a Mac, bad RAM... they did a machine exchange on the spot. iPhone had some bad flash storage... 10 minutes, the SIM card was swapped and I was good to go with a replacement unit.
For nontechnical people, being able to call one number for a problem, be it hardware, OS, or even the app makes the Apple Tax worth it, especially if they make their living from the computer.
PC makers also offer good support, but you have to buy their business line of machin
Bad product = delighted customer (Score:2)
Even better is building it right in the first place. There's really no excuse for bad RAM (expeically at the prices Apple charges). Diagnosing bad ram can be extremely time consuming and the symptoms aren't easy to spot (unless it's really DOA). You've drunk the Apple-aide on the iPhone. Rather than complaining a crappy, poorly manufactured product, you're proud that you bought a defective item and then when you identified the customer they fixed it. How much time did you spend going to the ARS, waiting
Re: (Score:2)
You should probably tell Apple to take down that particular part of their website then...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/security/ [apple.com]
Re:It will be swept under the xprotect rug... (Score:5, Insightful)
Except this isn't a virus. It's a Trojan. It cannot spread/replicate itself, and it cannot infect a Mac unless you willingly install it by giving it your admin password. If you don't know the difference between the two, then you probably shouldn't be posting here.
Re:It will be swept under the xprotect rug... (Score:4, Interesting)
No, what I'm saying is there are currently NO viruses in the wild for Mac. How you came away with "Mac is invulnerable" from my statement above is a bit odd. Since I never mentioned any other malware but this one trojan. As far as real viruses, contrast that with 100,000+ viruses for Windows OS and you begin to see a bit of a difference between the two OS's. Saying that a trojan is a virus is nonsense. A virus attacks via vulnerabilities in the OS which should be addressed and closed. A trojan can only attack via the user (socially engineered). Any OS can be infected by a trojan if they are able to dupe the user into giving up the admin password. No OS is secure from user exploits.
Re: (Score:3)
It does not say anything about not admitting that there is a problem
You should not confirm or deny whether the customer’s Mac is infected or not.
Ummm..
Re: (Score:3)
Also..
By the way - it's not an internal document, but an anonymous employee being cited.
http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/apple-macdefender-investigation-may-16-2011.png
(click the image in the article, if this doesn't work for you).
Umm..
Sorry buddy, you were wrong on both counts. Seems like you need to read the article again, zealot.