New MacBook Pro Teardown Reveals 'Shoddy Assembly' 531
CWmike writes "Apple's new MacBook Pro shows some build-quality problems that shouldn't be seen in a notebook that costs $1,800, a teardown expert said on Monday. iFixit.com found several signs of substandard assembly while disassembling a 15-in. MacBook Pro. Among them: A stripped screw near the subwoofer enclosure and an unlocked ZIF (zero insertion force) socket for the IR (infrared) sensor. '[These] should not be things found inside a completely unmolested computer with an $1,800 base price,' iFixit said in the teardown description. iFixit also spotted an unusual amount of thermal paste applied to both the CPU and the GPU. 'Holy thermal paste! Time will tell if the gobs of thermal paste applied to the CPU and GPU will cause overheating issues down the road,' iFixit said. The refreshed MacBook Pro models launched last Thursday in what one analyst called a 'ho-hum' upgrade."
So much for build quality... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:4, Informative)
That's totally unfair.
Why single out electronics like that?
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That's totally unfair.
Why single out electronics like that?
40 years ago the common wisdom in the US said the same thing about foreign quality, except back then it was about the Japanese. Those that don't learn their history...
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:4, Interesting)
I think you just made his point.
Everyone made fun of Japanese quality, and now Japanese stuff is first-rate.
Right now, China makes shit....
So history doesn't seem irrelevant at all.
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So...just because Japan followed a certain route, that means China must as well? Wow, that is incredibly racist. Those yellow slants all look alike, eh?
No, because one developing nation that set out to develop its industrial base by exporting consumer goods to North America has already paved the trail and the next developing nation that is trying to develop its industrial base by exporting consumer goods to North America is probably going to follow a similar path. That was the poster's point, and only you saw anything racist in it.
How can you possibly walk, staggering under the weight of that giant chip on your shoulder?
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The only thing that sets the MBP apart from other laptops is the touch pad interface. Other than that they are the same as every other laptop out there. That touch pad is the only thing I miss when I'm working on other computers.
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Yeah, the "positive click" (I'm not sure of the official term) threw me the first time I used my daughter's MBP.
Now I wish I had one on my Toshiba. I'm sick of the skipping cursor/false clicks (and yes, I have PalmGuard on).
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:5, Informative)
Does that page reference the douchery of their owners, and how those owners seem to need to point out how their laptops are different from every other laptop out there?
No, but I hear they're considering adding a paragraph or two on smug non-Mac users who absolutely insist on throwing non sequiturs like yours into practically every Apple discussion.
I hear far, far more from people like you than I do from those you're complaining about. And I work in an industry that is disproportionately Mac-centric, and went to a college where easily 95%+ of the student body and faculty used Macs. And I also love to spend time at coffee shops. I mean come on.
I'm beginning to think it's a bizarre inferiority complex that is triggered by the sight / mention of Apple products. The same way some people flip out and feel oppressed when they spot "Happy Holidays" or something.
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It's called "displaced rage". Most geeks have a lot of rage, and one common coping mechanism is venting rage at surrogate issues. Makes it easy and simple to point and blame, which saves one the trouble of actually confronting and taking responsibility for their personal issues.
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If you're not paying for build quality, what ARE you getting (hardware-wise) for the extra money
When you buy expensive brand clothing, you're not paying extra because its made from a rare blend of materials - you're paying for that extra brand which makes people recognise you as cool, modern, hip and rich.
Same thing.
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A lot of people also purchase Apple products because they do generally "just work."
If the
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:5, Insightful)
Most laptops with a MacBook Pro's feature set also cost about the same amount of money. Compared to those around me, I'd say you get a sexy, sturdy exterior and a high-quality screen.
Yeah, comparing a crap PC with a topend mac doesn' (Score:5, Insightful)
It is the same old story, people comparing a top end Mac with a bottom end PC and then complaining about the price difference. Mac is now the first with the new intel stuff, so HOW exactly do they come up with this price comparison when there isn't a regular laptop out there with the same hardware?
Not that I think Apple is all that hot myself. They are to me the old sony. You pay a bit more then you should but know you get reasonable quality in return. In the real world, that matters. I might get the same cheaper but it might be crap or I can lots more and it can still be crap. Old Sony made good mid quality stuff that gave you the insurance that you got decent gear for an okay price. I would be wilinng to pay more for my ordinary hamburger if I knew that the service would always be great, the hamburger always hot etc etc. That MID range, decent quality for a decent price is VERY hard to nail. Cheap and crap is easy, expensive and good is easy. Hitting the middle reliable, that is where you can make a fortune.
Until you start cutting costs. Sony went bye bye. Apple is not imune to this. For all the Sony haters now, once they were a darling just like Apple is. The mighty do fall.
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You're paying for OS X, for an aluminum unibody, for an awesome keyboard and high-res screen.
If that's worth the extra money to you, then awesome, you're good to go (which it is to me--I don't imagine I'll have any laptop besides a Macbook in the future, though my assembled desktop runs Windows 7). If not, I have a plastic HP that might interest you...
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>>>You're paying for OS X, for an aluminum unibody
That'll come in useful when I take my Mac off-roading this summer. None of that shoddy welded crap to break when the wheels hit ruts. I wonder if the rubber wheels/suspension will hold up.
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:4, Insightful)
I've used Macbooks. That keyboard sure as fuck ain't awesome. I could go out and buy OS X and stick it on any machine for under $900, and ...well, okay, yes, damn you, that is a really nice screen. I'd love a better screen on my laptop, and since I should have some cash spare soon, I'm looking in to replacements, seeing if there's anything feasible. As for the aluminium unibody, I've honestly never understood the drooling over that. I treat my laptop carefully, as befitting a costly machine, and it just seems to make Macbooks terribly heavy. Am I missing something about it that just isn't obvious? The protection idea is negligible, it's not really better at dispersing heat, aesthetics are a matter of taste, and it's heavier. I've weighed my 17" HP vs. my friend's 15" Macbook.
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i think you might wanna look at some thinkpads. i've found them to be really high quality and devoid of logos except 'thinkpad' (which i think is awesome) and a small 'lenovo'.
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"What I want is a macbook-quality laptop with no software, no restrictions, and no logos or any other identifiable marks. NOBODY is producing such a thing. Same thing with tablets. What is so hard about it? Just take the best touchscreen you can get, the best camera, the best mobo with a good processor and lots of ram and stick Honeycomb in that motherfucker. How hard can it be?"
To make, easy.
To sell, hard. Especially as at $1200 your no-name nerdBook looks just the same as some "Big Name" computer company
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have that feeling all the time, and it pisses me off. Sadly, the ONLY company producing quality right now (in that area) is apple.
You should have a look at the T-Series ThinkPads, the quality is top notch, best keyboard on the market, touchpad is great, carbon fiber reinforced plastics, a titanium rollcage, liquid drain ports in they keyboard (just in case you spill your drink), and the 1080p display is one of the best displays you can get on a laptop. Did I mention you can get one of these with more options and onsite warranty with accidental damage protection for less than a Macbook Pro? I ordered one about 2 months ago with almost every option and it came out to less than the base 15" MBP.
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:5, Insightful)
You made me spit coffee out at "awesome keyboard".
My Model M is an awesome keyboard.
My ThinkPad has a great keyboard for a laptop.
My new MacBook Pro has a tolerable keyboard at best.
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See, I love Apple keyboards. I love them so much that I use one on my desktop PC and my linux box. They have just the right crispness coupled with the shortest travel. I can't stand model Ms and don't know how anyone who isn't a 'roided freak needing a machine gun soundtrack can use them. When I want exercise, I swim.
However, I do recognize that this is a matter of personal preference.
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My new MacBook Pro has a tolerable keyboard at best.
The backlight is really great. The only thing I miss from when I used to buy Macbook Pros.
They did have great build quality, but now I buy $400 laptops and don't worry about failures (component or klutzoid).
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Pretty damn well.
Are you implying there's some great functionality I'm missing out on? I've used tons of keyboards, and the Model M is my favorite by far. The only thing I occasionally miss is a "windows" key, but everything else I might want a "fancy" keyboard can do can be done in software. The Cherry MX key switches are decent also, but have a few niggles like the reset point on the most common ones.
If you want a simplicity analogy, the Model M is more like a sword, and less like a fixie. Fixies are fa
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"The model M is far from fashionable." Isn't that the pinnacle of hipster fashion, in this case /. hipsterism?
Swords are a bad example. Modern metallurgy shatters ancient techniques. You know why katanas were made with folding techniques? It's because the iron that was available sucked and folding drove out impurities and homogenized what was left. A milled blade out of modern alloys with temperature controlled (to the fraction of a degree and second) tempering may not seem as sexy as your 2,000 fold blade
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You're paying for OS X, for an aluminum unibody, for an awesome keyboard and high-res screen.
Care to explain my HP Envy, with aluminum/magnesium body, backlit keyboard, slot loading dvd, 128gb SSD, Radeon HD 5650, i5, 1600x900 screen?
Oh, and I bought it for $980 ($1400 before rebate. I miss you 30% BCB). The closest Macbook configuration (at the time) cost almost $3000, and couldn't even match in some specs (like the video card). Is OSX worth almost $1600? And people scoff at the price of Windows 7.
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The fact in my sample size of 4 of the Envy systems at my work, we had 3 defective? The Envy laptops are complete steaming festering floater turds, based on what I've seen.
Look, my sample size of Apple Computers in my life is exactly zero, so I'm not commenting on their build quality, or lack thereov as suggested by the article.
But HP licks balls.
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:5, Funny)
Anonymous coward offers anecdotal evidence. Well, I'm sold!
Re:So much for build quality... (Score:4, Insightful)
Sometimes its just better to post the truth in something like this as an AC. If you don't, you'll be modded into the ground. I've done the same before. And I've noticed the quality issues of Apple products myself (one of the reasons I don't buy them).
I've owned 2 iPods, and both died in just under a year and I'm not alone there. Its quite rare I can find someone who's had a iPlayer(Pod, Touch, Shuffle) that has had one live for more then a year and a half. Does this mean there is none? No, but I find them to be quite rare with people who use them. I've had friends had other failing parts in MacBooks (HDs the most common). They just don't live any longer then a good built laptop from other companies. Granted this seems to be were many Mac users get annoying to me when comparing build quality. They will want to compare a $1200+ MacBook to a sub $400-$500 HP or Dell. Thats not a good comparison in any manor. HP and Dell are known to be subpar quality companies. Compare the Mac to something like a Asus, Sony or Toshiba. Do these companies have no failures? No, but they aren't shoddy built either. These are better build quality companies. An suddenly you'll see a more equal in quality build in all these companies. This was even highlighted by Squaretrades review of their records. [lifehacker.com] Thing is, the price tag to the Apple laptops are much higher for the same specs and the review shows that the build quality isn't higher, its just higher priced to make you think your paying for something of higher quality. This is normal in designer products like clothes and perfumes/make-ups because people like to equate "higher price = higher quality" when in many situations, it isn't true but is to make you believe that it is.
Now, is Apple normally a shoddy build quality company? No, but they aren't the top build quality either. They just know how to give the impression that they are.
Now does this mean you shouldn't ever buy an Apple product? Not really. You should buy what you enjoy but should approach it knowing the facts and not have false impressions about the product either. In short, if you enjoy the Apple product, then all the power to you, but don't be surprised that not everyone will agree with you that they are the best. Its why there is more then one product out there. Everyone is different.
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Jaguars are built that way.
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This contention, that a consumer is getting a bad deal if the producer makes a profit, is very strange. Remember, profit come from the fact that manufacturing costs become marginal with volume, producers lock-in low commodity prices through contracts (Apple buys its SSDs and RAM 5 years in advance of you in astounding volumes), and from the various economic rents it gets from
Ho hum? (Score:2, Informative)
These MacBook Pro's are the top laptops in the industry. There is nothing better.
This refresh is almost as fast as my 8-core Nehalem Xeon Mac Pro, which is rather incredible.
All great products have high resale value... I just sold my 4 year old MacBook Pro 17" for $920.
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Amazing you can speak with your mouth full of Steve Jobs' cock.
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Wait, didn't you get the memo? We now have to dislike Apple!
Sarcasm aside, I agree with you, I think the update that just happened was the biggest leap forward since the introduction of the unibody enclosure. Big enough to make me sell my 2 year old MacBook Pro and upgrade.
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Oh I've gone from fan-boy to fanboi? Hurrah, you have managed to upgrade me. Hopefully without injuring yourself.
*Stares at hand built (hand put-together? I dunno, it's not like I designed anything inside it) PC running W7 64/Ubuntu, is typing on a ThinkPad X61 running Vista, notices MacBook Pro happily sitting in the corner, printing out my fanboi badge*
Oh wait. I run Vista, Win7 64, Linux and OSx. Arg, can I still be an Apple fanboi? Please??
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Re:Ho hum? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but you are a fanboi, that's what you're *supposed* to do, for God's sake - in fact, how you escaped the hypnotic clutches of Steve's Charisma Beam and lasted two years without an upgrade is probably worthy of some deeper investigation by the clerics of the Holy Church of Apple.
The problem with the Apple haters here is the rampant hyperbole. He upgraded his two year old computer, but you have to spin it into some sort of insanity. It's strange that you first call him a "fanboi", then note that he somehow managed to avoid this imaginary mystical superbeam emanating from Cupertino which would have made him a fanboi.
In other words, you just called him a fanboi while noting that he wasn't a fanboi. Fantastic!
Look at it from my perspective - if I proudly crowed about standing outside queuing in the rain the day before a new Dell Laptop or Ubuntu Linux 11.04 was released, you'd call me a sad loony!
Ignoring the fact that he didn't say anything about lining up in the rain a day in advance for the new MacBook Pro (in fact, no one has ever done this, the lines have only been for the iPhones and iPads, more on this in a sec), yes, you would look insane waiting for Ubuntu or a Dell laptop.
Why do people line up for iPhones and iPads? Because demand far outstrips supply. People in line know that if they don't line up, they will have to wait some uncertain amount of time before they can get one. Has this ever happened with a Dell laptop? Is this even possible with Ubuntu?
On the other hand, there have been plenty of geeks downloading Ubuntu (and other distros) the day of availability. Haven't you ever tried to download an ISO on release day only to find download speeds horribly slow? Do you hurl the same "fanboi" insult at people who line up for video games, concerts, movies, etc?
But no, only Apple users are "fanbois", because, well... "Fuck you, that's why"? That's all it really boils down to. What sort of insecurity leads someone to throw about effeminate insults to someone who upgraded his two year old notebook? What is it about other people's computer choices that bothers you so much?
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When those other people get up in your face all the time crowing about how damn good their computer is and how superior it is to everything else ever made EVER, you start to get pissed the fuck off. I'm just saying. (Yes, this cuts both ways.)
The guy posted about how he upgraded his old MBP to a new MBP, in a story about the new MBP. He didn't get all up in anyone's face. He did not say they are "superior to everything else ever made EVER". This is exactly what I'm talking about when I mentioned the rampant hyperbole.
If a Mac user says he likes the new Macs in a story about the new Macs, that's not something that should piss you off.
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Well done, you. Nice and thrifty, plus no laptop in a landfill. Though I'm unsure of the point you were making with that post.
Was it to say that Dell laptops don't ever need replacing?
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"presumably because he needed a new machine." Or he might have wanted an upgrade more significant than just memory or HDD. Or he broke his last laptop by dropping it. Who knows. Remember what they say about assumptions, it's asses all the way down. Or something. Anyway, how about this one:
Begin challenging your own assumptions. Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in awhile, or the light won't come in. ~ Alan Alda
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You quoted Duke Nukem? You clearly win my dear sir, I cannot compete with intelligence at your level.
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OK. We get it. (Score:2)
People click on Apple stories. People post to Apple stories. Slashdot editors, could you please pull a George Bush and just say "Mission Accomplished" already?
So... (Score:3, Insightful)
What's the point of this story? (Score:2, Informative)
Sample size: n=1 (Score:5, Insightful)
They found a bad apple. So that makes our sample size is n=1 so far. Can anybody cite evidence of additional issues, or is this being hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story?
Re:Sample size: n=1 (Score:5, Funny)
I asked a friend; he said the line between this one data point and his preconceived notions shows a definite trend.
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Agreed, the issues also seem relatively minor. Still if this article will lead to Apple doing some extra quality control that'll be a good thing. Sort of a little reminder to Apple that we hold them to a higher standard than other pc makers.
Re:Sample size: n=1 (Score:5, Insightful)
They found a bad apple. So that makes our sample size is n=1 so far. Can anybody cite evidence of additional issues, or is this being hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story?
Well, they found at least 3 independent problems on a single sample. Since each of these problems is possible separate from each other, the fact that all 3 show on a single item could indicate that the rate each problem is fairly high in general. There are other possibilities besides high problem rates, but it does raise the chances that this isn't just a single isolated incident.
Re:Sample size: n=1 (Score:5, Interesting)
We have 4 Macs (2 iMac, 2 Powerbook) that have been in the shop a total of five times (1 iMac twice, everything else once). Their build quality has gone down a lot.
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They have not made PowerBooks for years.
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We have 4 Macs (2 iMac, 2 Powerbook) that have been in the shop a total of five times (1 iMac twice, everything else once). Their build quality has gone down a lot.
Oh yeah? Well my anecdotal is bigger than yours!
N = 7
S = 1
Re:Sample size: n=1 (Score:5, Informative)
My point with my reply is that when we look at objective data (I'm not commenting on the quality of these data but they have to be better than your anecdote and my anecdote), Apple computers are the most reliable: http://www.rescuecom.com/2010-annual-computer-reliability-report.html [rescuecom.com]
Here are some somewhat subjective data (but still data with a larger sample size) showing Apple on top: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2368167,00.asp [pcmag.com]
Maybe Apple's build quality has gone down but objective data don't seem to show that at all.
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Get a load of that: "Hyped up like the iPhone 4 antenna story".
You mean the "hyped up" story that had Jobs and Apple tap-dancing like the Nicholas Brothers and then shipping out hundreds of thousands of cases to "fix" the problem? That hyped up story?
And, yeah? (Score:2, Insightful)
What new computer line doesn't have problems? And Apple is known for having 1st generation problems. A stripped screw, extra thermal paste, and an unlocked ZIF? Shocking, pure shock I say.
The best part it was ONE sample, yet somehow because it got attention from a sorta-credible source it is given more credence than the usual ancedotal observation.
And no, I'm typing this on a Dell.
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This is far from a 1st generation Apple product. They might have the new Sandy Bridge chips and mobo, but by and large these are identical to the previous unibody line.
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Actually, the fact that it was from ONE sample makes it even worse. If these types of defects/shoddy assembly were rare, you'd expect to find one in a typical laptop teardown. Maybe two if you got an extraordinarily unlucky sample. The fact that they found three suggests that statistically, this sort of stuff is present in a high percentage of
ZIF (Score:3, Funny)
You had me at zero insertion force
Damagecontrol (Score:2)
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I guess so to, or the Stockholm syndrome is applied at full force. Build quality problems have been there in the past.
And it always was a random luck if apple fixed it on the machines or not. Most of the time Apple acnowledged it only after they have been dragged to court with a class action lawsuit. If that did not happen users were left hanging dry in the air.
Been there done that, first gen macbook air, constantly overheating if you did more than websurfing.
A problem which according to apple never existed
A fluke (Score:3)
For now I'd say it's a fluke. You're not likely to find any of these problems even in a cheap Dell computer. In all the years I've owned and happened to open a computer or some other bit of electronics I can't say I've seen improperly assembled components. The only exception being toys where it's an absolute disaster how things get put together.
It is possible that in the rush to anticipate demand that factories are forgoing some quality control and maybe even overworking their employees.
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For now I'd say it's a fluke. You're not likely to find any of these problems even in a cheap Dell computer. In all the years I've owned and happened to open a computer or some other bit of electronics I can't say I've seen improperly assembled components. The only exception being toys where it's an absolute disaster how things get put together.
It is possible that in the rush to anticipate demand that factories are forgoing some quality control and maybe even overworking their employees.
It may be a fluke or it may be an assembly plant issue, but either way it's the sort of thing that makes an anal-retentive tyrant like Jobs go ballistic. I'm betting it gets sorted out posthaste, even if he is out on extended medical leave.
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Soon shoddy work will be punished with hauntings.....
Hate to say it (Score:2)
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You're paying $1400 dollars for a titanium shell...
Robocop approves.
It's still better... (Score:2)
than the annoying piece of junk mentioned in the Clean the Fan video a while back:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1943659 [collegehumor.com]
Yes I'm now a troll (Score:2, Interesting)
I think this is it - the last time I bother with Slashdot. Troll posts (like this one) I can bypass, but the constant troll articles are getting out of hand.
Screw it. It's not just the Apple crap, I get it, you hate Apple. It's the ridiculous sensationalism that has crept into all of it. I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
Not stripped (Score:4, Funny)
OK (Score:3, Funny)
So, you spend $1800 on a status symbol, and you expect quality too?
"Ho Hum" WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)
The machine is 2x as fast as the one I bought last year, has 10Gb I/O, for the same price.
Please have the "analyst" compare my 1989 VW Jetta to today's model for a "ho hum" upgrade...
Re:Three words: (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike those quality, American-made laptops.
Oh wait... those don't exist.
Re:Three words: (Score:5, Insightful)
Blaming China or low quality is misplacing the blame in any case. The low quality of so many Chinese-made goods isn't because China is unable to make good quality; it's because Americans are addicted to buying shiny cheap junk and the Chinese give us what the retailers ask for. The market segment that is willing to pay more for quality is quite small in America.
That said, Apple *does* target the quality minded consumer with its computers. Normally the design and build quality on Apple stuff I've seen is first rate; this example comes from a sample size of one. Even a top notch manufacturer can have a bad unit. Except for the unclosed ZIF socket the problems listed don't seem to be the kind that are easy to spot in inspection. Probably the worst issue was the excessive thermal paste, and that's under the heatsink.
Does this one unit mean that build quality is slipping at Apple suppliers? Possibly, but not necessarily. The negative publicity about Foxconn could mean Apple has more on its plate than quality these days when dealing with its suppliers, but that's pure speculation.
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The most durable, highest-build-quality consumer electronic device I've ever owned is a Thinkpad. 100% Chinese manufactured.
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Maybe it is because it is so difficult to quantify quality, but price is a simple, universal, metric that can always be evaluated on an apples-to-apples basis.
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I haven't looked recently, but a couple of years ago I came across a Vaio at a Sony store that said "Assembled in the United States" on the bottom.
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Funny how that works. I had an old Thinkpad (forget the model now, 600?). It was made in US IIRC. ... China.
Then I got a T21, Made in the UK (I thought that was a bit odd?).
T23 was Mexican, IIRC.
X24? Korea.
T42
And then the whole division was sold to the Chinese around then. Evolution I guess. And that's only going back fifteen years or so.
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Intel silicon is likely made in the US, AMD Germany, both packaged in Malaysia or other cheaper locations. RAM probably Taiwan or Japan, among other possibilities.
PCB stuffing and physical assembly(except for last-stage card-level customization) almost certainly China.
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Re:Despite this, Apple will make billions of sales (Score:5, Insightful)
You now have to be a fan-boy to buy Apple products? They are no longer available to the public? Since when? Do I need a badge? To join some kind of club?
Oh wait, maybe Apple came around your house and clubbed your puppy to death? No?
Perhaps take a deep breath and relax. People are free to choose Apple, Linux and even Windows. Each has strong points and reasons why they are good at what they do, so no need to start dropping both your IQ and elitist tech wang on the table by throwing the term 'fan-boys' around.
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Actually, he's scheduled for next Thursday on the puppy clubbing list. Apple is running a bit behind with both Steve Jobs and possibly Jonathan Ive out.
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Dude, it is not the problem of "installing" the hardware. It is the supposed to be simple task to connect to an actual network or to set up your own one.
Incompetent? No
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...thanks to the Apple fan-boys.
I bought one. I'm not an Apple fanboy. This is, in fact, the second (alongside a third-generation iPod) Apple product that I've ever purchased. I've generally been rather anti-Apple, namely due to their shoddy Linux support (remembering early iPod days), their gross bloatware that is Windows iTunes (slash Safari, slash QuickTime, slash who the fuck knows), and my experiences working with Objective C and the Cocoa APIs professionally some early OSX builds.
That said, I went laptop shopping and, after soliciti
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Re:HP - Dell? (Score:4, Funny)
>>>Lets try open an equivalent HP/Dell then eh?
Damn straight! This whole Slashdot Summary should be modded troll. Apple would never, ever, never have "build quality problems" in their $1800 machines. Everybody knows their laptops are better quality than my - I mean those half-price $900 PC laptops.
That's why we Apple users pay so much for them!!! It's like buying Lexus/Acura instead of Toyota/Honda, even though they are made by the same engineers in the same factory with identical engines & chassis.
(kneels before porcelain Jobs)
Did I do alright master?
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>> Perhaps I was just trying to show some perspective
By comparing to something half the price?? I smell fanboi fart...
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I'm talking about your comparison, not Apple.
In your comparison, you say that the luxury lines of automotive companies are nothing but their regular cars with larger digits on the price tag. I'm telling you that your assumption is completely incorrect. You further define how incorrect this is by making a snarky response about couches in their waiting area, which is a strawman.
The reality is that every car, no matter how expensive or not, will require maintenance. Most 'luxury' brands build this maintenan
Re:HP - Dell? (Score:5, Insightful)
A complex/intricate design makes one tend to strip screws and leave ZIF sockets open? Sounds more like a lazy assembler to me.
Re:HP - Dell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:HP - Dell? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Rushed" is probably more like it. I bet Apple has ordered a large number of items in a short time.
Good, Fast, or Cheap. Pick one.
Re: (Score:3)
Instead of making me tear apart computers, why don't you just tell us. what you're talking about?
How is a Mac "more complex/intricate" than say a Lenovo or Toshiba or HP? Does the Mac have "17-Jewel Swiss Movement"?
I've been inside my Mac Pro as well as my homebuilt i7/1366 and they've got pretty much the same components. I'm not doubting you, just asking for clarification regarding the laptops.
Re: (Score:3)
I've been inside my Mac Pro as well as my homebuilt i7/1366 and they've got pretty much the same components. I'm not doubting you, just asking for clarification regarding the laptops.
Oh, come on. I could buy that argument on the laptops, but the Mac Pro? I've personally never seen such a well-designed and -constructed enclosure. Machined aluminum tracks for everything, swappable sub-assembelies, etc. I wouldn't claim that the components themselves are superior, but the case is phenomenal - easily the equal of the average well-built rackmount server from most companies.
Re: (Score:3)
OK, but wouldn't that make it less "complex/intricate"?
My question to you was how is a Mac laptop's innards more "complex/intricate" as you claimed.
Re: (Score:3)
The throw-away issue isn't an Apple one, it's a laptop issue in general. It's not like CPU/Graphics on laptops have had a history of being an easy do-it-yourself job, regardless of brand. Laptops have always been inherently hard to upgrade since they're attempting to be as compact as possible. And at least Apple attempts to mitigate the damage of a throw-away society by putting a checkbox on the order form that gives you an option of mailing in your old computer so they can recycle it.
Re: (Score:2)
*shrugs* My cheap $360 Asus Eee PC 1015PEM netbook seems to have better build quality than that. No stripped screws or unlocked ZIF connectors from the factory. (Naturally, I partially stripped a screw opening it up to upgrade the hard disk.)
That said, the MacBook beats the everliving hell out of the Eee PC in terms of performance. Still, $1,800 for a laptop is entirely too much in my view -- I have my netbook for portability and my desktop at home for high-performance stuff.
Re:extra thermal paste is NOT a problem (Score:5, Informative)
Thermal paste increases thermal conductivity between chip and heat sink.
Overclocked your first gaming rig, huh? No. Thermal paste is a crappy conductor. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
So, "good" silver compound will be approximately 1% as conductive as aluminum. The only thing near a CPU less conductive than thermal paste is air. You want to use the bare minimum necessary to fill the minor imperfections in the surfaces of the CPU and heatsink. Any more than that and you might as well wrap your processor in a nice cozy wool sweater.