Apple Support Company Sues Customer For Complaint 292
tekgoblin writes "An Apple authorized Service Provider called System Graph is suing a customer who complained online about poor service from them. The customer Dimitrios Papadimitriadis took his iMac to them because he was seeing gray spots on his LED panel. The Greek company System Graph recommended a full interior cleaning of the iMac and performed the service for Dimitrios. He then got his iMac back and noticed moisture behind the screen and that it still did not work properly and took it back to the repair center. System Graph then told him that they needed to keep his iMac to replace the LED screen and he would be without it for another week.
PR nightmare (Score:4, Insightful)
"Fast friendly service and if you say it wasn't we'll sure you". Apple needs to ship him a new computer and cut off ties with the service company. It'll cost them a 100X as much in the long run.
Re:PR nightmare (Score:5, Interesting)
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Not only would it undo brand damage, but actually improve it.
Apple would demonstrate to be on their customers' side for once.
Re:PR nightmare (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry, but Apple really doesn't care. My iMac was in for a warranty fix for over two weeks. The motherboard was replaced and then they had to replace the video card which was a separate unit. You can write them all you want, they don't even reply. While I like their machines their support does suck. If you have an iMac you have to bring it to an authorized service center which can be a real bear with the larger iMacs.
Where as when my parents managed to fry one of the Dells I bought them the technician came out the next day and replaced the power supply and motherboard at their home. To think I paid for two extra years of warranty on my iMac and the cheap ass Dells get better support.
Re:PR nightmare (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry, but Apple really doesn't care. My iMac was in for a warranty fix for over two weeks. The motherboard was replaced and then they had to replace the video card which was a separate unit. You can write them all you want, they don't even reply. While I like their machines their support does suck. If you have an iMac you have to bring it to an authorized service center which can be a real bear with the larger iMacs.
I have a slightly different experience with their customer service. My 24" iMac stopped working on Dec. 13, 2010. It was freezing on startup. I called Apple on the 14th, and explained to them that I didn't have a vehicle so I couldn't take it in to the retail store, so they arranged for an on site repair at my workplace. They overnighted a package on the 15th, since cut-off time for Fed-Ex had already passed. The tech wasn't in to get the package on the 16th, so he got it on the 17th and called me. We arranged for him to come to my workplace on the 22nd since that was his first available day. He came in and replaced the logic board but that still didn't fix it. So he called Apple back and they said it must be the RAM, so they overnighted another package to him, and on the 23rd he met me at my house since I started vacation that day. He had to drive about 70 miles one way to get there, vs. 45 miles to get to my workplace. He replaced the RAM, and that didn't work either, so I had to run it up to the Apple Store, which was about 70 miles away from my home. They couldn't get it working either, so I had to leave it.
They didn't call me back to let me know it was fixed until the 30th. While a week was a long time, they did have to order the part on the 24th, they were closed on the 25th, so they didn't even get the part until the 27th. Still, it was a lot longer than I would have preferred. So I drove back up to the Apple Store and picked it up in the afternoon. When I got home later in the afternoon, I started to restore my computer from my Time Machine backup. It was going to take about 5 hours, so I let it run overnight. Next morning, I got up and the computer was sleeping, so I jiggled the mouse to wake it up. Nothing. I held down the power button to make sure it was off, then I started it up again. I got the chime & a black screen. I tried it again, this time unplugging it first, and also zapping the PRAM on startup, but still, nothing.
I was steamed, so I called the Apple Store & set up another "Genius Bar" appt. When I got up there, they tried booting it and got the same thing. He said he was going to see if they had another video card in stock so they could repair it. I told him everything I had already been through, and explained how I didn't have access to the computer for my entire vacation which ended on Jan. 3, and I was highly displeased. He said he would talk to their manager, and they ended up offering me a new 27" iMac for my troubles to replace my 2 1/2 year old 24" iMac. Granted, it did take a much longer time than I would have hoped, but I got a better outcome than I expected.
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Wait... was that supposed to be an example of a good experience with support?
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Sorry, but Apple really doesn't care.
That so explains why Apple is consistently in the top three (and frequently the top 1) for large company customer service...
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Just like how every car dealership leads in satisfaction survey? But I am not surprised you believed in them - after all, apple PR has already worked their charm on you.
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Polling a group on their satisfaction with
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>> It's like you're going out of your way to ignore every third-party customer satisfaction survey ever.
Yes, I am ignoring every third-party 'satisfaction surveys' - not only for Apple, but for everything. They are basically flawed because they are nothing but post-purchase syndrome where human minds tend to approve of things they have already invested heavily in.
For the same reason, when I do my research, I go to various forums and look for negative reviews. They are much more insightful then the OMG
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"Fast friendly service and if you say it wasn't we'll sure you". Apple needs to ship him a new computer and cut off ties with the service company. It'll cost them a 100X as much in the long run.
Nah, that's not how Apple does business.
Also they can just remove any negative posts or threads on their forum.
Sites outside of Apples reach? They to will filter themselves, any negative comments on Slashdot for instance will soon find their way down below anyone's viewing threshold.
So even if the Apple distortion field doesn't work for you, it will for sure work ON you. Problem solved.
Cheers!
Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
-- TS Eliot
Re:Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:5, Funny)
fearing to act and then entropy will take over and we'll just...stop.
so..... uhh .... can we have your liver, then?
Re:Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:5, Interesting)
I had hoped that ppl in America would take note, but we can not get slashdoters with the stories to even take note. I still see idiots here that blame unions, regs, while others blame business ppl. As such, I give little chance for the average citizen to figure things out.
Windbourne (moderating)
Re:Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lawyers don't file suits for the hell of it. They do it because they're hired to beat someone else in court.
Who hires them? Big business. Who makes it easy for them by avoiding legislation for tort reform, and making new laws that are a lawyer's paradise? Politicians who were former lawyers, as you say.
So it's not just the legal system. It's the whole culture that thinks lawsuits are the solution to any problem, a society that completely mistrusts government to regulate properly, so end up voting in complete scumbags because they had a better funded ad campaign, a society that worships big business; allowing them to buy elections, buy laws, buy politicians outright, buy media stations and broadcast lies, and sue anyone and anything that competes with them or they don't like into oblivion in a legal, social and political environment that positively encourages that.
It's a much bigger clusterfuck than just shooting all the lawyers will fix.
Re:Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a much bigger clusterfuck than just shooting all the lawyers will fix.
No, I agree.
One would need to shoot all the lawyers, all the former lawyers, all the student lawyers, all the law lecturers.
In addition one would want to shoot anyone who does business with lawyers, people who owe money to lawyers and people who lawyers owe money to.
The "Keyser Söze" solution.
Re:Here I thought we'd end through nuclear war... (Score:4, Interesting)
Or, individuals who've been convinced by a contingency lawyer that they can hit the law suit lottery over every single thing in their entire lives that they don't like.
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How beautiful. Then we can finally get all those hydrogen atoms accounted for.
You appear to be assuming that a group of lawyers will not file a class action on the behalf of all hydrogen atoms everywhere (and any when) in order to protect their right to privacy.
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It's called System Graph (Score:5, Informative)
You don't even read the stories you post, do you?
The company is called System Graph.
Re:It's called System Graph (Score:5, Funny)
The excerpt above is from the linked article. Tekgoblin is the one that got it wrong.
I went to Papadmitriadis's Twitter feed to see if "Stemgraph" was a local nickname for Systemgraph but it was...
(wait for it...)
all Greek to me.
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Perhaps this is the entire problem and the guy is slamming the wrong company which is why they want to sue for slander?
Nah, it's probably more like the one site is within the same legal jurisdiction and didn't want to be sued in the process too. So they changed the name to protect the innocent- namely themselves.
Re:It's called System Graph (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed it is http://www.systemgraph.gr/ [systemgraph.gr]
C|Net, which the tekgoblin site pinched this from, had the name right. But tekgoblin got it wrong, both on their own site, and in the verbatim copy submitted here. And yes, samzenpus appear to have rubberstamped it without even some elementary link following.
No, this won't be the last time we see this, but I still hope that we get served less copypasta and more verified news here in 2011.
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"appear to have rubberstamped it without even some elementary link following."
Welcome to Slashdot. Enjoy your stay.
Re:It's called System Graph (Score:5, Insightful)
No it doesn't. TFA says "An Apple authorized Service Provider called System Graph is suing a customer..." Perhaps it was corrected, something that Slashdot rarely bothers to do.
However, this is yet another case of Slashdot promoting some link-whoring blog that reports a story instead of the real source.The actual (English language) source is CNET: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20026918-71.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 [cnet.com] which has a rather more complete story and background.
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damn customers... (Score:4, Funny)
counter sue for court costs + a GOOD attorney + th (Score:2)
counter sue for court costs + a GOOD attorney + cash for your time + the cost of a new mac.
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= Waste a bunch of time and money, probably losing the case anyway because your lawyer isn't good enough OR winning and then having to go to court again and again and again when they sue again until they win.
--> Huge waste of time, effort and money.
See also: SLAPP
So what? (Score:2, Insightful)
You're allowed to sue anyone you like for any reason you want. I could sue every single person reading this post in a John Doe lawsuit because I believe that the gray aliens told me that people who read my slashdot posts are making the value of my stamp collection drop, so I want a million dollars from every one of you. Plus expenses.
Here, read up on this guy. [wikipedia.org]
See? You can sue anyone you want for any reason you like. Stories like these are really non-stories. About the only value is in letting you
SLAPP anyone? (Score:5, Informative)
It's illegal in 26 states, and can sometimes make a nice countersuit.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Informative)
Umm... I don't think anyone here is arguing that they don't have the legal right to file a lawsuit. The point is precisely as you say: "hey don't use these guys, they're litigious jerks." So what's the problem? We all like our daily righteous indignation.
And why, more generally, is there always someone in every thread like this who suggests that no valid criticism can be made of behavior - however reprehensible - that violates no laws?
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He had sent his iMac into the company.
They repaired it. Or at the least they claimed so.
When he got it back, the problem was not solved: There was even moist in the screen!
He took it to a repair center, which means there was no post delay.
He sent it in because of: "I have problem X, can you fix this?", they said: "Yes" and so he sent it in.
He gets it back, problem still present, he goes BACK to the repair center, asks about it, and THEN they say something they should have said quite some time ago.
He purchas
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I would be VERY worried if the italian consumer protection agency had anything to do with a case happening in Greece.
That said, true, they might want to refund him for a bad repair job, if in fact they charged him for it, and it had no effect. But I dont see how a cleaning would be the cause of the problem. The fact that the problem persists after an attempted repair does NOT give you the right to sue someone (That is, you can try, but You'll get laughed out in court). While the problem might seem to get wo
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Presumably, the warranty on the device is backed by Apple, and the authorized service center only needs to bill Apple for the time/parts, and if necessary, for the RMA.
Apple's warranty in the US/Canada includes a replacement clause, where you can ask them to replace the system outright if a repair was botched, or if it's had too many repairs. I'd be very surprised if their European warranty didn't include the same sort of provision, though admittedly I haven't read their Euro warranty.
His mistake was saying
Re:So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
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This is standard operating procedure for some Greek companies. I used to have to deal with them all the time. They are very litigious and get irritated when you charge them accordingly. I had personal experience with these companies and most were a P.I.T.A.
Re:So what? (Score:4, Funny)
Hehe pita. Seriously though I falafel for this guy.
Re:So what? (Score:4, Funny)
Hehe pita. Seriously though I falafel for this guy.
They clearly lack a sense of houmus.
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It is often not that simple - lawsuits also cost money and time for everyone. More than several companies use the fact that they have bigger pockets and can sue all they want as a weapon. In some cases it can be cheaper to create fear of a lawsuit than the amount of money lost through bad reviews. That's probably not very often and even if the person complaining is truly giving undeserved bad press it is usually worse to sue for it, but hey not everyone sees it that way (see the RIAA/MPAA for a great exampl
They are not a non story on the receiving end (Score:2)
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It's not. Cosumer protection is very efficient in Europe. Only if he looses and wants to appeal will it cost him a bundle.Then again, if he looses it'll cost him a bundle anyway ;)
I'll withhold judgement untill I get a decently translated version of his allegations, but frivolous suits are rarely brought in Europe, because only the accused have the right to free counsel, usually.So for the time being I'll assume that the company has tried to reason with the guy first.
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Riches continued, "Defendants put me in prison. I face imminent danger from violent inmates who played Grand Theft Auto who will knock me out and take my gold Jesus cross."
Funniest thing I have read so far in 2011.
Since the summary doesn't finish the story... (Score:2)
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After the moisture issue, he sent it back to the company, they told him it'd be a week, he demanded a full replacement of the machine according to some Greek law
"Some greek law?" Well, as you can see from the OP, he obviously took it to them for warranty service, complaining about gray spots showing on the display, as an apple authorized service center, they would have an agreement to service Apple equipment under warranty for repairs and replacements.
They took it in and according to them, performed
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I think that he was trying to argue with you ....
because this is Slashdot?
And for that sort of reader, we need a graphic for "just reporting the facts, nothing to argue with here, move along..."
Deceptive title (Score:3)
The title of this summary, while technically correct, is deceptive. I read it as "Apple's support sues customer for complaint."
I'm gonna sue!
I had the same problem, but with Sony. (Score:4, Interesting)
So I didn't accept it and after 200 or 300 pixels, I just disassembled my Sony Vaio 16.4 inch panel made in North Korea (yeah..) by Sharp and cleaned it, it took about 4 hours of my time but its perfect now.
Don't ask me how the hell the dust got between those two layers.
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Don't ask me how the hell the dust got between those two layers.
It probably happened right at the repair facility.
Idiots all around (Score:5, Interesting)
He's a tard for thinking that they have any obligation to replace the computer under these circumstances. As they rightfully pointed out, they are not Apple, just a company authorized to service Apple computers. Having worked for an independent Apple service provider in the past, this is a maddening mistake that many customers make, especially irate ones who don't want to listen to a thing you say. The bottom line is that if he didn't buy it from them, then they have no obligation to refund the item. If he wants a refund, THEN TAKE THE ISSUE STRAIGHT TO APPLE.
It doesn't help that this guy has been throwing an utter tantrum to everyone within possible earshot about the issue. It's impossible to say if this is a justified suit as there are no details about what he's said to a ton of other parties about this. If he has indeed lied (and from the grotesque levels of butthurt coming out of the guy, it's possible), then it's a justified lawsuit. We just don't have enough information, and I think too many people are kneejerking in favor of the guy. Having seen some truly idiotic, angry customers, I'm going to reserve judgement here until more comes out.
This is in Greece (Score:2, Informative)
Apple products have a very low penetration rate in Greece due to the absymal support and commercial channels we have to put up with. Greek users have begged SJ in the past to get rid of the local reseller that up to a year ago worked under an exclusivity contract. There was no way to get an Apple computer directly from Apple, you had to get it from them and they would charge something like 50 or 100 euros more for the greek support.
It's easier now to get an Apple computer from big consumer electronics store
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My Fry's Electronics LCD repair nightmare (Score:2)
In October 2007 a friend bought a $240 Samsung 205BW LCD monitor from Fry's Electronics, with a $30 three-year Performance Service Contract (PSC). She ended up not getting a computer until July 2009, when she first truied the Samsung. Occasionally it would go black and stop responding. The same problem occurred on my computers. Smartly, she delegated repair to me.
In July 2009 I took it to Fry's and brought the original box for protection, but Fry's didn't want it. It was ready in September, but still had
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Being "authorized" has nothing to do with being "qualified".
One likely problem with repairs is they (much like those customer DISservice people we call on the phones) follow scripts. That is, if a certain problem is presented, a certain "solution" must be applied (despite the fact that many problems can have a variety of causes).
I had a Dell laptop at work periodically fail to light the screen up. They send a tech out with a replacement LCD. He replaces it and it lights up. But it also has some discolor
The customer is not always right in Greece (Score:3)
One of the unwritten issues here is that in the Greek society, the idea that the customer is always right does not hold true. Customers can, and often are, berated by the stores, not because of any inherent evilness, but because that's just the way things are. In Greece, where the economy, before it collapsed recently, was still primarily cash-based, most transactions were between individuals. Stores are primarily mom-and-pop operations, although that is changing, and the mentality between a customer and the seller is still very much one individual to another. Couple that with a society where macho-ness (manga in slang Greek) is valued, it's easy to imagine a shopkeeper and an individual getting their horns locked.
I've experienced this myself (BTW, I'm of Greek descent, living in the US) when dealing over the net with Greek companies; I found a reasonably serious bug in a company's web site, provided a solution (without being asked), and suggested they might send me one of their magazines (USD $10) as a thank-you. Based on the vitriol spewing forth from the site owner, you would think that I was trying to rob them and had caused the bug myself (the bug was that their shopping cart wasn't detecting if javascript was running, and when it was disabled still produced a valid cart order, but with incorrect values)
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No, there is no way someone would pay that much for such a small screen, even if it does have a huge contrast ratio. The tech just isn't mature yet.
It will be an LCD screen with an LED backlight.
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No, you aren't, if you actually read the product you linked to, you'd have seen
"A 27-inch widescreen display with LED backlight technology. Stunning is an understatement.".
Now, in all fairness, it doesn't explicitly say it's an LCD, but a true LED display wouldn't usually use a backlight, as the color source themselves are the light source as well. Thus I'd say it's safe to assume that the product you linked to is in fact LCD technology with an LED backlight source, as apposed to the standard flourecent tu
Re:LED SCREEN? (Score:5, Informative)
So it is [apple.com]. I suppose I'm ahead of the times.
That's not real LED screen, that's LCD screen with LED backlighting.
There are real LED screens too, such a Sony XEL-1 OLED display [google.com], but their cost is way out of the budget of most iPeople, not to mention they're also a bit small for iMacs... And by "real" I mean, actually displays the image using LEDs.
The whole fad of marketing LCD displays with LED backlight as "LED displays" is really confusing for the consumer. Many less-clueful buyers believe they really got a LED panel on their "LED display".
Re:LED SCREEN? (Score:4, Insightful)
The Samsung Galaxy S phones also use OLED screens.. Super AMOLED = Super Active-Matrix Organic Light-Emitting Dioide
Re:LED SCREEN? (Score:5, Interesting)
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LED screens are common in outdoor displays, like the big TV in the Cowboy's stadium:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboys_Stadium#Video_screen [wikipedia.org]
maybe iMacs are much larger in Greece
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There are also building-sized LED screens but I believe they cost a bit more.
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$1,799.00 isn't out of budget for most iPeople.
Ok, that was a bit of a flamebait, bad me. However, that buys you an 11 inch display. That might possibly make sense as an external display for iPod (assuming latest and greatest iPod has an HDMI output?), but TFA is about iMac.
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They are referring to the LED backlight. If you take the time to review the spec sheet [apple.com], you'll realize that it's an LCD screen:
FTS (From The Spec):
27-inch (diagonal viewable image size) thin film transistor (TFT) active-matrix liquid crystal display with in-plane switching (IPS).
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Nah, 'LED Monitor' is the buzzword at the moment.
Its fun to point out to people that for the best colour quality an LED back light is not what they want.
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For best colour quality, no. An LCD (at all) isn't what they want for best colour reproduction. But it's the same sort of deal as when somebody's trying to convince you to buy the $1500 stereo. 99% of users will never really notice the difference between the $600 amplifier and a $1500 amplifier, and we both know that neither is top-of-the-line... if you want to get the top end system, you're going to have to expect to spend upwards of 10-20x as much.
The question is where the butter zone is. For most people
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are they the typical 10 segment nixie. or are they 16 segment Burroughs B7971 tubes which are neon tubes like a 7-segment numitron, often confused with nixies because the technology is the same.
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Re:LED SCREEN? (Score:5, Informative)
No, newer Apple's use LED-backlit displays.
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Yeah, an LED-backlit LCD display. AC is right.
My car has many electrical parts, but that does not make it an electric car.
Re:LED SCREEN? (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree. Unfortunately, LCD TVs with LED back lighting appear to be widely marketed as LED TVs in ads, sales flyers and on the packaging. I really haven't been paying close attention to whether it's true with computer screens too.
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Kinda like TV's that can't display HD are sold as "HD ready".
Lies, damn lies, statistics and marketing.
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"HD Ready" means "supports 720p, and fakes 1080i"
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The problem remains that "HD ready" is in no way "ready" to do what a "HD" TV can do, as the term implies.
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Yes, that is totally horrible. But you can navigate through these dangerous waters. Any actual LED TV has another letter before "LED" like "WLED" or "OLED"
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Uh... so, you want BSD + Quartz, but without Quartz.
If only such a thing were possible...
Details of BSD and Mac OS X (Score:2)
Mac OS X is not BSD.
Many buzzwords are associated with Mac OS X: Mach kernel, microkernel, FreeBSD kernel, C++, 64 bit, UNIX... and while all of these apply in some way, "XNU", the Mac OS X kernel is neither Mach, nor FreeBSD-based, it's not a microkernel, it's not written in C++ and it's not 64 bit - but it is UNIX... but just since recently.
This video and powerpoint [chaosradio.ccc.de] clears up the confusion by presenting details of the Mac OS X kernel architecture, its components Mach, BSD and I/O-Kit, what's so different
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It's been tried before by the OpenDarwin project. I hope there's enough interest to sustain it this time.
Re:Streisand effect (Score:4, Informative)
Because you can't read?
This isn't Apples doing.
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No, as they would have made sure the company is named correctly. Which it is not.
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The iMac has a displayport output. So he could in fact hook up a second monitor while waiting for a replacement to be shipped in if the retailer allowed it.