iPhone 4 Reception Recall Ruckus Roundup 479
Readers today have been sending tons of stories about the iPhone 4, so here are a few of the highlights: Following the Consumers Reports announcement that the iPhone has antenna problems, Andy Patrizio asks if Apple can withstand the pressure to recall, while CNet estimates that a recall would cost them $1.5B. But that's just the latest on the iPhone 4 — the long running carrier exclusivity lawsuit rumors have been upgraded to Class Action status.
Stock price is falling too (Score:5, Insightful)
CNet estimates that a A recall would cost them $1.5B
It's not only that cost. In 3 days Apple's stock has gone down a huge 5%, costing Apple and their shareholders millions of dollars and creating huge image problems.
It also look like Apple's PR team completely messed up, from the "learn a new way to hold a phone" to removing of any critical comments from their support forums. Considering PR and marketing is one of Apple's strongest areas and which pushes everything they do forward, they did some incredibly stupid decisions.
Now that they are basically ignoring the problem, any more time they take doing nothing will cost them even more.
Re:Stock price is falling too (Score:5, Funny)
I'm more interested in why CmdrTaco sounds like the narrator from Wacky Races.
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Hey, it was funny, a big improvement on his previous attempt at comedy. Do you remember "ACTA is backta?" x_x
Re:Stock price is falling too (Score:5, Funny)
"learn a new way to hold a phone" means don't hold the phone how we hold it in every commercial/ad for the iPhone 4, where they touch the bottom left. - Steve
Re:Stock price is falling too (Score:4, Funny)
Steve Jobs' Neck: I know there are lot of complaints about the iPhone, but my head doesn't seem to get them.
Tech Support: You're holding it wrong.
Steve Jobs' Neck: What?
Tech Support: You need to take it out of the sand.
ZOMG a "huge" -5%?! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ZOMG a "huge" -5%?! (Score:4, Interesting)
You realize that's 5% JUST from the buzz around Apple, and doesn't even include the cost and repercussions after they preform a recall?
Yes, their stock price is still healthy.
Yes, after it's all said and done, they'll probably still be above what they were a year ago.
But these sort of things have far reaching consequences. Do you realize how many people buy Apple products because they "simply work"? This one unreliable product has planted the seed of doubt.
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and doesn't even include the cost and repercussions after they preform a recall?
What the hell makes you think a recall is going to happen?
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Well it would be the SMART thing to do.
If they don't - I expect the stock price to keep dropping slowly but surely.
Re:ZOMG a "huge" -5%?! (Score:5, Insightful)
They haven't had *one* unreliable product, Apple has had plenty. Look at the last decade of laptops they've made, they have been plagued with problems. The most notable is the dual USB iBook video chip flaw. This was a design and engineering flaw that Apple at least dealt with (by extending warranties and replacing logic boards) but they NEVER did ANYTHING to actually FIX the problem. There was no recall. They replaced defective boards with new defective boards that had yet to demonstrate the defect, fully knowing that it was only a matter of time before that board also failed, conveniently after the extended warranty period ended. How they got away with a stunt like that is beyond comprehension.
On the record, I own one of the afflicted laptops, and fixing the problem correctly is a non trivial task, since not many people have access to or knowledge of how to use SMT rework equipment.
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Real-world tests by Wired, Engadget, etc. all show that you can have 4 bars and great signal. Hold the phone and have zero signal.
What real-world use are you talking about? I'm not even activating my iPhone 4 until I get my bumper in the mail I just ordered.
I also hate this notion that Apple products always just work. iTunes has wiped music, ringtones and such from my phone multiple times. It crashes all the time. It messes up tags on my MP3s and stripped away album artwork so it won't display correctly in
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I was about to wonder about your problems till I saw that last part...you're running iTunes on Windows?
I've run all of this on a mac (older one granted, a G5 Tower I got cheap)...and no problems at all. I'd dare say if you run Apple
Re:It does "simply work" (Score:5, Insightful)
I was about to wonder about your problems till I saw that last part...you're running iTunes on Windows?
I've run all of this on a mac (older one granted, a G5 Tower I got cheap)...and no problems at all. I'd dare say if you run Apple stuff on Apple products...9 times out of 10, it does just work. Mixing MS windows in the equation is likely asking for trouble.
Oh, so it only crashes, erases songs, etc for 90% of their customers. THAT'S PRETTY GOOD!!! [/sarcasm, if you couldn't tell]
The shitty quality of iTunes and Quicktime on Windows is simply inexcusable. *Especially* since they have other applications, like Safari, that run quite well on Windows. Hell, even is Windows was the one with the 5% marketshare, it would *still* be inexcusable.
iTunes, by virtue of its scummy buggy-ass drivers and services, is the *only* application I've seen on Windows 7 that can still lock-up completely unrelated applications. (In my case, World of Warcraft locked-up for a solid 4 minutes while iTunes was updating my phone's firmware. Figure THAT one out!)
Re:It does "simply work" (Score:5, Interesting)
Seconded. I've yet to get an iPhone, but I've got a friend who picked up a couple 4s right when they came out. He couldn't be happier. Even though they do lose some signal with the right grip, in daily use they drop fewer calls and have better sound quality than Blackberries/Palms/other phones he's used. So it's hard for him to get too worked up about this issue.
And American phone subsidies notwithstanding, it's a $600 device. If you care about your phone, buy a freaking case or bumper already! And/or a bluetooth headset. You don't have to be that kid sitting in Starbucks showing off just how spendy a phone your parents bought you.
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And American phone subsidies notwithstanding, it's a $600 device. If you care about your phone, buy a freaking case or bumper already! And/or a bluetooth headset. You don't have to be that kid sitting in Starbucks showing off just how spendy a phone your parents bought you.
So what you're saying is, it's a $600 device that's defective unless you buy a $30 case or other accessory? If I cared about my phone, I'd probably buy one that "just worked". I have a 3gS and as much as I like some of the capabilities, it has done a decent job turning me off to the whole Apple thing...
Proof for you (Score:4, Informative)
Link or lies! A 4bar drop to 0 has never happened to any of my phones no matter how I hold them.
Let me google that for you (Nexus One) [keithbradnam.com]
There were videos around for other phone if you simply do a search.
If you can't replicate the problem, then you are simply in the same boat as iPhone 4 owners who can't replicate the problem it's supposed to have either (I know a few iPhone 4 users that cannot get the signal to drop, and athough I've been able to reproduce it I can't get it to happen all the time).
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Re:Wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
I've seen videos from Wired and Engadget of picking up the phone and letting it rest comfortable in your hand where the signal goes from 4 bars to No Signal.
Even the most ardent Pro-Apple sites have confirmed in their testing that this is a serious problem.
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I've wondered that myself.
After all, if you're getting dropped calls with your new shiny iPhone 4 that you didn't with your old phone, why haven't you returned it? Are you waiting for a fix that Apple may or may not provide? News of this hit the internet about a day after it went on sale, and there was at least a 14 day return policy (that even cancelled any contract you signed and reset your upgrade eligibility). And
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No, it is not. Normal holding of the phone does not really affect the signal. You have to squeeze much harder than normal and kind of wrap the phone, to really have an effect. Although partially it's probably a function of how sweaty your hands are.
That's simply not true. Signal degradation occurs with a single finger covering the correct location. Here's a video that clearly shows a single finger causing degradation with no twisting or warping of the phone.
http://consumerist.com/2010/07/consumer-reports-wont-recommend-iphone-4-until-apple-fixes-death-grip-design-flaw.html [consumerist.com]
Thanks for you time but all the info you're giving out is directly contradicted by numerous sources.
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That's a good point. But Apple's classic users are "special people." They are FANS. Fans are not typical consumers. Fans vote with their dollars for their favorite things and they are committed.
There are also striking similarities between Apple fans and religious fanatics. (But that said, it is only fair to mention that as a Linux user, I witness EXTREMELY religious fanatical tendencies among Linux users too so it's not like it's only Apple fans that get this way... hell, it's not even exclusive to com
Re:ZOMG a "huge" -5%?! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Based on what? They have strong revenues, very little debt, a ton of cash reserves, and a phenomenally popular product line. If any company deserves to have a high stock value based on fundamentals like that, Apple is surely one of them.
Define what market they have a "~2% share" of.
Re:Stock price is falling too (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not only that cost. In 3 days Apple's stock has gone down a huge 5% ...
We must have a different definition of huge when applying that adjective to percentages. Let's see it's 10:15 EST on Wednesday morning. Stock is currently at 252.11 [google.com]. Three stock market days ago would have been Friday morning at 10:15 EST and the price was 257.04. Okay so that comes out to be 4.93/257.04 = 1.9%. If you meant to say it's down a "huge five dollars" then maybe. Yes, they opened and plummeted down to $247 on Tuesday so if you compare that to their seven day high of $261 you get five percent. I don't think that's anything to be concerned over. A five percent fluctuation really isn't that big of a deal. If you look at Microsoft from Friday morning at 10 AM to now they've jumped five percent ... it's just the stock market game. I can find arbitrary percentage numbers bigger than this in many technology stocks all day long.
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The other thing, is if you've been watching AAPL for any amount of time, they go up and down multiple dollars per day, but the overall trend is up, up, up.
This week might be a down week of 5%. Next week might be an up week of 8%. I think the smart investor is staying right where he's at, looking at the 6+ month trend line.
Re:Stock price is falling too (Score:5, Insightful)
How does the share price going down cost Apple anything?
Sure it costs the shareholders something, but why Apple itself?
Are they borrowing so much money that a 5% drop in their share price has upped the interest rate they pay? Are they doing a share issue to generate cash?
Wouldn't it reduce the cost of any stock/stock option components of remuneration packages, and hence save Apple money?
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Hey, what do you expect from, basically, 'iPhone Death' [wikipedia.org]? ;p (at least as far as part of important markets is concerned; but it seems you might Apple marketing to little credit / they knew what they were doing in naming it so? ;) )
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Apple's stock has gone down a huge 5%
That could be selling by investors who bought the stock in anticipation of the iPhone 4 launch. The "Buy the rumor, sell on the news" effect.
Re:Stock price is falling too (Score:5, Informative)
In 3 days Apple's stock has gone down a huge 5%
Citation needed. Average price end of last week: 257. Average price today/yesterday: 251. 5% of 250 = 12.5. The local max (Thursday, 262) and the local min (Tuesday, 247) come out to 6%. And the max to the min means nothing, especially when they are as brief as they have been with AAPL.
Not to say Apple's stock has not dropped, but it has not gone down a huge 5%. Source: google.com/finance
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Considering PR and marketing is one of Apple's strongest areas and which pushes everything they do forward, they did some incredibly stupid decisions
Marketing is Apple's strongest area, but PR has never been been their forté.
Re:Stock price is falling too (Score:5, Funny)
Previously I made this remark on the subject:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1716900&cid=32881054 [slashdot.org]
It would seem my guesses, assumptions and observations are bearing out. Apple has extended itself too far beyond its fan base and has gone into the jungle of varied user types with varied expectations, varied tolerances, varied temperments and varied mentalities.
Apple once worked within its cult. Growing outside of that is proving difficult. Trying to push that cult into the hearts and minds of new users is also proving difficult.
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Or... you could just be making vast generalizations with absolutely no data to support them other than a 5% "jitter" in their stock price that can most likely be attributed to general intra- and inter-day trading noise on the market.
There's always that option, too.
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In 3 days Apple's stock has gone down a huge 5%, costing Apple and their shareholders millions of dollars and creating huge image problems.
Your horse is behind your cart. It's the image problems causing the stock price drop, not the other way around.
Now that they are basically ignoring the problem, any more time they take doing nothing will cost them even more.
Considering how badly their PR team has been screwing this up, maybe nothing is the thing they should do (besides fix the damned design and replace t
CNet estimates that a A recall would cost them (Score:5, Funny)
It would cost them a LOT more than that. If the letter A were recalled, they'd be Pple Corportion.
And they'd sell iPds instead of iPads. Their stock symbol would have to change from AAPL to PL - but that's taken, and so is PPL. PPLE is available, but pple.com is owned by a squatter.
And it's not just Apple. If the letter A were recalled:
About the only good thing about recalling the letter a is that vaginas stay vgins - no matter how many times they're poked! Hmmm, on second thought, maybe it's worth 1.5 billion.
Stock is not a big problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
If they dont release a patch, their stock will be useful only as wallpaper by the weekend.
Except, that is what many savvy investors are counting on, because the fall in their stock price is really a reaction of fear.
Savvy investors never trade on emotion, and they bank on the emotion of others by reading the emotions that drive the market. This still works because the majority of those who trade stocks are still very emotional.
Apple basically shot themselves in the foot, and their wounds are bound to heal. That is far better than if someone else (like MS) shot them and they got hurt, as that would be a sign of vulnurability to competition.
Re:Stock is not a big problem. (Score:5, Informative)
"the majority of those who trade stocks are still very emotional"
Not true. The major owners in Apple, as any major company on the stock market, are mutual funds and institutional holders with 72% [yahoo.com] of the stocks. Maybe the majority of the small time investors are emotional, I don't know, but that is a completely different thing since they can only affect the stock price so much.
Re:Stock is not a big problem. (Score:5, Informative)
Given that stock pricing has a lot to do with how many buy/sell orders get placed and not quite as much with how many shares get bought/sold, churn in that little 28% can have a huge effect on price considering they are probably 99% of the shareholders by headcount.
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No doubt many customers are now thinking their next "iPhone" will be an Android or Nokia model instead.
This has been stated in different ways many times before. Remember "...less space than a nomad. Lame"?
I have doubt that many current customers will go to another phone. While it may not make sense to everyone, the behavior observed shows that people buy and continue to buy Apple products despite the objections of folks on the internet. I've seen speculation, but I have yet to see an article that states "Data shows that sales of the new phone have slowed because of the design flaw in the new iPhone!"
Like i
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Only if you cherry pick the stats. Sure, if you choose A high-end dell, which comes with much higher temperature, Vibration, Battery Life than any Apple. Then have Dell add the highest markup items they have (which come included with the Apple, but the dell will have better specs than the same items sold by apple, in the above terms.) Then yes you can pay more than Apple for a better laptop, with the same CPU, and Memory speed/size.
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>>>The MacBook has a lot more function than the low-end Toshiba and Compaq you mentioned.
I doubt that. Windows 7 and OS 10.6 have very few real differences, other than in people's imaginations. While Windows used to be shit, they are now on par with the Mac OS. *Plus* Windows is well supported. For example I can download the 2xAV plugin for Media Player that will play songs/movies at double speed without making everybody sound like chipmunks. Apple Macintosh has no such function - nobody ever
Re:Stock is not a big problem. (Score:4, Interesting)
The gist of it is that the US enjoys a very stable dollar because it is the world's reserve currency, and because oil is purchased in dollars globally. The speculation has been that the USD would be dropped as a reserve currency because it is no longer as stable as some of the alternative currencies (in particular, the EUR). C64Love is a little behind the current thought among most economists, however -- as we've seen this year, the Euro is not a valid alternative to the USD as a reserve currency -- the problems with the economies of Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, and Greece mean that the EUR has a lot of question marks.
Since China's currency is still pegged to a basket of currencies (though less so than it was), their currency is not a valid reserve either -- no one knows if China would one day decide to screw everyone over by revaluing the currency.
In short, the USD is a lot less stable, especially forecasting 10-20 years from now, as it has been in the past. Fortunately for Americans, there are no currencies out there that look better.
Interestingly, currency issues have been mentioned as a big reason why the US went into Iraq in the early 90s... Iraq was beating some drums about selling oil in Euros. That would have been *disastrous* for the US economy...
But I'm assuming you're aware of most of this, and just questioning C64's claim since he talks out of his ass...
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Currency issues aren't why the US invaded Iraq. Nor was it for oil, though that helped to motivate people for the invasion. The real reason is the most banal imaginable and it is the reason that most wars are started: they thought it would be easy. This is why they didn't think or plan the invasion. They knew Iraq had no friends, and they thought they could easily place a major American presence in the area that would stabilize the Middle East. And they thought that Iraq and al Qaeda were linked (yes, I kno
Re:Stock is not a big problem. (Score:5, Funny)
Well technically the _invasion_ was easy... its the follow up that turned out to be really hard ;-)
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Red_Flayer wrote: Interestingly, currency issues have been mentioned as a big reason why the US went into Iraq in the early 90s... Iraq was beating some drums about selling oil in Euros. That would have been *disastrous* for the US economy...
AC's post is insightful? Actually, it's off topic. He is apparently addressing GP's claims about the invasion of Iraq IN THE EARLY '90'S, but throws in Dubya and Cheney. Wrong administration, wrong decade, wrong war, wrong enemy, wrong answer. One would expect that
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>>>>>Apple's stock will plummet in 0011 along with the rest of the US economy. Investors should buy then, not now.
>>
>>C64Love is not the right person to answer economics questions...
Perhaps not, but I still follow the news. The world will not be switching to the Euro or Yuan or any other currency. The UN is planning to switch to a basket of currencies called an SDR, and that will act as the universal denomination to which world products (like oil) will be pegged. So prices will
Re:Stock is not a big problem. (Score:4, Insightful)
No, you're not better informed. The SDR, even if the UN starts using it, will be phased in over a long period to maintain stability. In addition, it WOULD include a USD component, just as it does now (currently, the SDR uses USD, EUR, GBP, and CNY -- 44%, 34%, 11%, 11% respectively).
The question is how the basket for the SDR will be changed to include more less developed nations.
At any rate, the USD will continue to be a major component of the world's reserve currency (which, even in the worst-case scenario for Americans, would still have the USD as the largest component, since it will be based on GDP [specifically, adjustments to the value based on inflation vs. change in GDP]. So the only thing that would collapse the value of the dollar is a collapse of the US economy... which, in your logic, is predicated on a collapse of the currency. That's circular logic.
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Except Consumer Reports tested it in a shielded lab environment and it failed. As far as infrastructure goes, it doesn't get any better than that.
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Question:
If a device has antennae wrapped around the outside of it, and its signal strength gets screwed up when you bridge the two...why would it matter which network the phone was on?
One Point Five Billion Dollars (Score:4, Informative)
How you like them Apples?
I already returned my iPhone 4, barely got it out of the box before return shipping. Droid X looks like it'll be replacing my half-functional iPhone 3G tomorrow.
smart move (Score:5, Interesting)
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Took it home, unlocked it...
And how is this any different than having to jailbreak an iPhone to do whatever you want with it?
I love how the Fandroids out there always praise how "free" and "non-locked down" their phones are, but in actuality you still have to jailbreak it (aka root it) in order to actually do what you want with it. So, I ask again...how is this any different from an iPhone?
Re:Two words for you... (Score:4, Insightful)
Freedom isn't free, and by buying and jailbreaking an iPhone you financially support Apple's douchebaggery and encourage the development of more crippled, locked down systems, perhaps with more effective jails.
Why do that when you can have an Android phone which you're encouraged to hack on, with real multi-tasking and an open source OS?
Re:Two words for you... (Score:5, Funny)
Jail. Break. The iPhone is just as hackable as other systems out there.
That's like telling people to adopt Christianity, because it doesn't actually stop you from committing the sins you like.
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Agreed.
Either
1) you have a hacker mindset and you want your phone to be hackable
2) you don't
if you're part of 1, then the 5 minutes it takes to jailbreak is surely not a deterrent
if you're part of 2, you don't care anyway, and the jailed/signed binary environs protects you.
I suspect that 99% of the people who bitch about the iPhone's lack of hackability couldn't write one iota of code themselves.
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If you're fond of hacking, though, stay away from the Droid X -- the signed bootloader on it will make loading any other ROM than what Motorola provides nearly impossible (the GSM milestone has been out for more than half a year and it's _still_ not cracked yet).
However, if you're not fond of hacking your phone, the Droid X will probably make you happy as hell.
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Recall? No way! (Score:4, Informative)
Jobs is too arrogant to allow a recall...they'll find a way to blame customers for this eventually, or weasel out of doing a full recall.
Re:Recall? No way! (Score:5, Insightful)
By the time they class action is done, all the customer is likely to see will be a $50 credit on their next iPhone.
Re:Recall? No way! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Recall? No way! (Score:5, Funny)
An iPhone app depicting the correct way to hold the iPhone, followed by another class action lawsuit started by people who couldn't download the "You're Doing It Wrong!" app because, well, they were doing it wrong.
Signals (Score:5, Funny)
Who cares? (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, there's nothing new for Asia.
Oh, wait. Whoops! [businessweek.com]
And that was for the previous version of the iPhone.
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$1.5B is a BOGUS number... (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is the antennas being shorted by a slightly conductive (sweaty) finger bridging one or more of the three breaks.
Apple doesn't need a recall to fix the problem: future phones can have a coating, and a free bumper ($10 cost to Apple) to existing customers solves all the problems.
At 2M iPhones, the "recall fix" would be a whopping $20M.
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Re:$1.5B is a BOGUS number... (Score:5, Insightful)
Having a bumper would be a wart. Apple clearly has style in the forefront of their minds when they design a mobile device; it is part of their brand image. Anything interrupting the sleekness of the product would tarnish perception of the company. It would be a constant physical reminder of a flaw.
I think it is most likely in Apple's best interest to get new phones out to people with a redesigned antenna solution.
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Except their response has been don't hold the phone that way or buy a bumper... They should at least provide the parts to make a working product instead of telling their customers who already bought an overly expensive phone to shell out another $30.
If they had stepped up immediately and said hey there is a small issue here is a free bumper case to fix it there would be almost no uproar over this. They've done nothing but add fuel to the fire by their reaction telling their customers to pound salt and then
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If they had stepped up immediately and said hey there is a small issue here is a free bumper case to fix it there would be almost no uproar over this. They've done nothing but add fuel to the fire by their reaction telling their customers to pound salt and then censoring their forums (not that it isn't uncommon for them).
You think so.... I doubt that... Apple is now the largest Technology company in the world... They have lost their poor struggling Spple lets help them fight against the Big Old, Mean Old Mi
Apple: Send a free case, it will cost you less (Score:5, Insightful)
But, seriously Apple, you did a recall with the MacBook battery issue. You replaced batteries and even though it cost you some money your karma was helped by it. Do the same with the iPhone 4... offer owners a case which you test to make sure fixes the problem. It will probably cost you $20 per for these including shipping and processing assuming you can get the cases for $4 or so. But you will instantly shut up the majority of people who are complaining VERY loudly about the problem AND you will have "done the right thing".
NO company is capable of 100% preventing mistakes, but it's how you act as a company that determines how you're perceived. You can be cool and hip all you want but if customers are afraid to purchase your products because you've stuck to your guns and forced lawsuits to happen you lose in the long run.
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Just buy a bumper or return it for a full refund. It's not a big deal.
-Steve
--
Sent from my iPhone
Re:Apple: Send a free case, it will cost you less (Score:5, Insightful)
Bad batteries are completely different from bad cellphone reception. The former can cause a fire, damage to the laptop, damage to the home if the fire spreads, and possibly death. Not doing a recall on batteries would probably land them in serious trouble with the government, especially if there were fatalities. The same can't be said for mere bad cellphone reception.
Additionally, at the time the MacBook batteries were recalled, there were plenty of other batteries from other vendors having problems, hence Apple didn't stand out. In contrast, the iPhone 4 problems are obviously Apple's alone.
Re:Apple: Send a free case, it will cost you less (Score:5, Interesting)
>Bad batteries are completely different from bad cellphone reception. The former can cause a fire, damage to the laptop, damage to the home if the fire spreads, and possibly death.
I'd say the bigger difference is that the battery vendor paid for most of the recall. I'm sure that's in the contract. This design issue with the antenna is all Apple's fault and would involve admitting a mistake on their part, not an outside vendor, and they would have to absorb 100% of the cost.
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Or maybe, we don't know. Maybe Apple ha
Not a recallable issue (Score:3, Insightful)
But, seriously Apple, you did a recall with the MacBook battery issue. You replaced batteries and even though it cost you some money your karma was helped by it.
Karma nothing. Recalls of dangerous products are mandated by US law. Even "voluntary" recalls aren't; the company either does them voluntarily when the company or CPSC finds a defect, or it risks being sued and paying a penalty in addition to doing a recall.
For that matter, selling a defective product that is not a safety hazard does not trigger a "recall." Unless these iPhones are strangling small children, catching fire, or are poisonous if touched, there's no recall potential here.
They've really shot themselves in the foot (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing is... (Score:4, Interesting)
... that my iPhone 4 is outperforming my 3GS, in terms of 3G connection quality and reliability, sometimes to pretty miraculous degree, such as at the train station I wait at every work day, where my 3GS's signal would jump up and down and go away and come back and even when it was showing 5 bars the performance was horrendous. With the iPhone 4 I can in fact reproduce the signal drop when held in my left hand, going pretty dramatically from 4 bars to only 1, but even at 1 bar the performance is outstanding and for the first time ever I've got a 100% reliable and fast connection here. I can stream audio and browse the web and it's fast, even at 1 bar. At 4 bars if not left handed.
So I'm not downplaying the drop in signal strength issue, as that is there when you hold it left handed (and I do usually), but that in practice it performs better, even a lot better, then my iPhone 3GS. So is the antenna flawed or not? I would say that it is flawed, but only from a PR standpoint. It's a public relations disaster, brought only by people who don't have an iPhone 4 and who seem to have a vendetta against Apple for not making a phone that they want, and due to magazines like Consumers Reports, who aren't seeing the forest for the trees. They are focusing solely on that there is a drop, and ignoring how it performs in practice. You need to just use the phone and see how it works for you, and most, I suspect, once they stop staring at the signal strength gauge, are going to find that it does better then their previous phone, even by a wide margin. The iPhone 4 is a great phone. Yes, you should put a case on it, as that will reduce the signal drop issue, but that issue is not nearly as big of an issue as it is being made out to be. It's not a non-issue, it just not the main thing you should be concerned about. You should be concerned about how it performs in practice, and the iPhone 4 excels there.
Re:The thing is... (Score:4, Informative)
This is what almost every in-depth article on the situation is finding. Yes there is a "design flaw", but given the overall improvements in the iPhone 4, it is still performing (for most people) better than the 3G or 3GS. Think of it as two steps forward and one step back. To people upgrading from the 3G and 3GS, they still get a great phone with improvements across the board. This only really matters to those who want to demonstrate an issue.
Basically, haters gotta be hatin.
Re:The thing is... (Score:5, Informative)
Anandtech's review (which I believe is far more in-depth than the CR?) claims that the iPhone4 holds onto a call at -113dbm. There is no doubt there is a antenna gap bridging problem and that this DOES cause the signal to drop, but at the same time the overall antenna performance seems better versus ie the 3gs. Weird.
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You are having problems with dropped calls, and more so then your previous iPhone? Do you have an iPhone 4? Who are these people who are having problems with dropped calls beyond what they experience with any other AT&T phone? The example I gave was how the 3GS struggled with the connection at that location, and to a pretty ridiculous degree, yet my iPhone 4 doesn't struggle with it at all, in fact it does great. Now this is just the biggest example. Elsewhere I'm also seeing improvements, though usuall
Three reasons why they have kept silent (Score:5, Interesting)
Cannot admit: iPhone4 irradiates you when you hold it wrong. It may appear that the iPhone4 gives you cancer.
Manufacturing: There may be a manufacturing component to it as well. We know they were rushed out the door without even time for the touchscreen bonding glue to dry. Clearly the Foxconn QA was not followed. If an engineer leaves a thumbprint on an internal antenna it detunes it. Imagine what a rushed assembly with leaky glue would do to the tuning characteristics.
Cannot admit: Apply don't pay their manufacturers enough and circumvent their own QA guidelines to rush product to market. They may appear like greedy bastards.
AT&T: The drop problem is also in a small, small part down to AT&T's 3G network topology. Nowhere near as bad as the old iPhone problem of congesting the signalling channels, this is simply due to the fact that 3G signals are way more sensitive to received signal strength. When you hold it the wrong way not only does the handset not heat the base station well (showing fewer bars on the phone) but it is the network that cannot hear the iPhone that causes the call drops as your entire hand and arm are radiating instead of the antenna. When you broadly detune the antenna with your hand the lower powered 3G signal is simply too feint and distorted to be heard by the base station. It does explain why the locations where the issues appear are random and seemingly not related in all cases to the downlink signal strength shown on the handset. RF signals are like that.
Cannot admit: The issue clearly isn't all to do with AT&T and they blamed them the last time with the 3GS.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Citation needed.
I don't have 10 years of antenna design experience like the GP but I have some knowledge in electrical engineering and that is more then enough to tell me that when you change the electrical length of an antenna it changes the frequency the antenna is designed to pick up. Signal strength doesn't mean squat when the antenna is interpreting
From the "Amazing alliteration apartment"? (Score:2)
First, fed-findings-fault-fat-feet
Reception Recall Ruckus Roundup
What's next? "Open Office dot Org offers Oracle, Overstock, Opera, Oprah, opplications for the oPhone?"
Best actual fix for existing & new phones? (Score:2)
What's the best actual fix for existing & new phones? Assuming there is a real problem with the antenna, but only when shorted with hand in "right position".
Idea #1: A new antenna design using coatings or some factory installed bumper/widget/plastic spacer installed with a modified antenna? This assumes a "4.1" phone design which would be sold instead of the current design.
Presumably this could be retrofitted onto existing inventories of iPhones and these could be swapped for existing iPhones in the
Technical details from AnandTech (Score:5, Informative)
Anand found that gripping the iPhone 4 a certain way could indeed cause up to 24dB of signal drop. This was worst-case, with a sweaty deathgrip. Touching more lightly or with less moisture had less of an effect. Gripping other smartphones near their antennas also caused a drop in signal.
The non-linear signal representation of the "bars" can also lead to some confusion related to this. The valid range is between -113dB (no signal) and -51dB (full signal). However, 5 bars represents the range of -51 to -91. 4 bars is -91 to -101. 3 bars is -101 to -103. 2 bars is -103 to -107. 1 bar is -107 to -113. If you have a full strength 5 bar connection, that 24dB drop won't even move you out of the 5th bar. If you've just barely got 5 bars, the same 24dB drop can put you down to 1 or 0 bars.
Anand's testing also confirmed what sjonke said in the comment above. Even when it was showing the same signal strength, the iPhone 4 was better at not dropping calls compared to the 3GS. The page shows a screenshot of a 625/31 run on Speedtest.net during a call with only -113dB.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What happens if you touch it when you have 3 bars? Would that 24db put you at -125db ?
I see your point, but your argument is flawed.
Yes, that's exactly what would happen. It would drop you down below the -113dB threshold, and your phone would display "No Service". If you were on a call, it would drop.
That would be an interesting argument in court. (Score:5, Interesting)
Expert Witness: "Well...yeah, but it's reception isn't as good as it could be."
Defense Lawyer: "Is the reception worse than most other phones on the market?"
Expert Witness: "Well no, but..."
Judge: "Next case please."
I'm not surprised that that the iPhone 4 isn't absolutely perfect in every way. No product is. This is a pretty minor issue that has been blown out of proportion. If I were in charge of Apple I would just give out those 'bumpers' for free and hope this all blows over.
Are you kidding me? (Score:3, Interesting)
My wife and I upgraded our phones from Razr's (also with AT&T) to iPhone4's on launch day. AT&T's network is not nearly as bad as the iPhone makes it. I can't make or receive phone calls in my office any more. We get calls dropped all the time. We've had occasions when one phone shows 4 bars and can make and receive calls and data while the other one just shows "Searching...". The only solu
Apple joins Sony in the do-not-buy list (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
How many Apple systems versus how many Dell/HP, and how many repairs for each? "easily 10x" isn't such a bad number if "hundreds of imacs and macbooks" are in one pool, and "10 dell/hp" systems are in the other.
And Apple doesn't manufacture most of the components going into the imacs and macbooks - they source their components from the same vendors that HP & Dell do. I've had a hard
Wifes not getting one cause of this (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a 3gs from beginning of this year so I'm not eligible, but my wife is and has been waiting for a few months for the 4g to come out.
It now looks like she is going to either wait for apple to issue a fix or go with an android phone. If anything I know she is not alone and I'd guess she probably represents 2 or 3% of potential customers that are now not going to buy this device.
What nobody seems to understand (Score:4, Interesting)
I have an engineering background and while I have by no means conducted a scientific study, I can tell you with utmost certainty that the iPhone4 does hardly has a signal reception problem.
It has a signal TRANSMISSION problem.
I've done quite a lot of mucking around with speed test apps on the device and I have observed that while touching the left gap between antennas does cause a marginal decrease in download speed, the signal is by no means blocked. To me, it appears the device can still hear the signal from the tower pretty well even with a human hand to detune the antenna.
Upload speeds, on the other hand, are severely crippled or blocked altogether. It appears that touching the gap has an extremely negative impact on the device's ability to emit a signal strong enough for the tower to hear. This theory is supported by call tests I conducted in which the other party was unable to hear me whenever the gap was touched, even though I could hear their voice just fine.
Quite by accident, I also happened to set my phone down next to a set of computer speakers which were very sensitive to cell phone radio interference, resulting in the typical "GSM Buzz" which most of you of you have surely experienced. What I discovered was that a single fingertip over the gap would almost completely eliminate the speaker buzz due to the interference. Touching anywhere else on the device had no discernible effect. Once again, it would appear that touching the gap severely hinders outgoing transmissions from the device, even over extremely short distances.
As I said, these observations are about as un-scientific as it gets, so feel free to draw your own conclusions. But as far as I can tell, touching the gap is enough to stop your phone's outgoing signal from ever reaching the tower, and a tower which thinks your phone is no longer there isn't going to maintain your call for very long.
Not as bad as it sounds, not as good as it looks.. (Score:4, Informative)
I've had an iPhone 4 for a few weeks now, and largely it works 99% as promised. IMHO there are bigger bugs than the "don't touch here" antenna problem!
1. Overheating shutdown... (I think). If the phone is in my pocket, sometimes I take it out and it's off... I'm guessing it is overheating (hot down here in Texas...)
2. GSM unit crashes... I sometimes venture out into the boonies and sometimes the gsm system just stops working with spotty coverage in hilly areas. When I return to a city with a strong signal, the unit never comes back up and signal strength stays at 0-1 bars.
3. Occasional app crashes... sometimes an app just crashes, usually one of the older apps like facebook, rope n'fly and a couple of other games. It's actually really rare, and I don't seem to loose anything, so it's minor at this point. These apps were rock solid on my 3gs phone, so that's why I mention it.
Overall I'm pretty happy the experience though... it's a lot faster. The voice quality is much better. The screen is fantastic. If #1 and #2 can be fixed then it would be fantastic, otherwise I'll return it and wait for iPhone 4.1...
Re: *carrier exclusivity* lawsuit (Score:3, Insightful)
From TFS:
But that's just the latest on the iPhone4: the long running carrier exclusivity lawsuit rumors have been upgraded to Class Action status.
The class action lawsuit is about carrier exclusivity, not the app store or other software restrictions. This should be obvious considering the Kindle and every game console have the exact same software restrictions, with the Kindle even having 1984 remotely removed from users' devices, without (afaik) a lawsuit being filed against Amazon.
The carrier exclusivity lawsuit for Apple being tied to AT&T seems absurd. Is there any way whatsoever this lawsuit will succeed?
What would blocking carrier
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The suit asks the court to ban the sale of locked iPhones in the United States and also seeks a ban on Apple restricting what software users can install.
Now I know you can interpret it a few different ways. But in all cases that means more control of the device for consumers. It's not an absurd lawsuit, it's about information control. Right now, with the iPhone (and to a slightly lesser extent Android phones) all of your data and what you can install on the phones can and is controlled by the comp