Updated Mac Mini Aims For the Living Room 638
WrongSizeGlass noted that besides the pre-order of the new iPhone appearing on the Apple store today, Apple has revved the Mac Mini and started selling those too. "PC World is reporting on the latest version of Apple's Mac Mini. At only 1.4-inches tall the unibody aluminium enclosure includes an HDMI port, an SD card reader, and more graphics and processing power. Even the power supply is inside now. The base model comes with 2.4-GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM and a 320GB hard disk — for $699. Graphics power comes from an NVIDIA GeForce 320M GPU (as found in lower-end MacBook and MacBook Pro laptops). Apple appears to be aiming for living rooms by including the HDMI port and eliminating the external power brick."
Apple TV (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Apple TV (Score:5, Insightful)
Without a BluRay player, even as an option, its a deal breaker. If the only way they expect me to get content onto the device is to go through iTunes, then I'm not buying.
Even something like EyeTV for recording television seems like a half assed solution, when Apple has the opportunity to do it right.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember, Apple doesn't plan a couple quarters ahead, it plans years ahead. And it knows that you can already stream an HD movie or TV show faster than you could get up off your couch and go buy or rent it physically.
Also, there's nothing to stop you buying an external BD player. Newegg has 'em under $150.
Re:Apple TV (Score:4, Informative)
you can already stream an HD movie or TV show faster than you could get up off your couch and go buy or rent it physically
Wally-world is 3 minutes from my house. I can be there and back in 15 minutes from when I decide to go. They actually have a decent selection of Blu-Ray movies these days, including a number in the cheap bins. Blu-Ray supports up to 36 megabits per second, which is faster than the Internet access at the vast majority of homes in the US. For example, to get Blu-Ray quality video on my 6 meg DSL, for a 2 hour movie I'd have to wait for up to 10 hours of "buffering" before I could "stream" the video. If you only did half the max quality level of Blu-Ray (18 meg) and your Internet connection was twice as fast (12 meg), you'd still have to wait an hour before starting to watch a 2 hour movie. And that assumes there's a server farm somewhere that can feed a whole bunch of 18-36 meg streams simultaneously.
Also, there's nothing to stop you buying an external BD player. Newegg has 'em under $150.
Does Apple include Blu-Ray player software (complete with all the necessary DRM support so you can actually get 1080p)? A drive is useless without the software, and the software included with the drive will be for Windows, not Mac OS X.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wally-world is 3 minutes from my house. I can be there and back in 15 minutes from when I decide to go. They actually have a decent selection of Blu-Ray movies these days, including a number in the cheap bins.
You realize a lot of those "blurays" are bargains because they are simply the standard mpg2 file from the DVD release put on bluray media, right?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So you don't have to have two boxes?
Well, a mini also doesn't have a cable card and it doesn't make a great gaming system. You'll also need a DVR. So that's three more potential boxes...
One device is never going to suit everyone, and I've yet to see an all-in-one box that works as well as a bunch of separate boxes.
I just kind of found it funny that, of all things, lack of Blu-Ray was the complaint. Standalone Blu-Ray is the way to go.
Apple may think Blu-Ray is already dead (Score:3, Insightful)
but the big box stores and consumer hardware creators seem to not notice. Outside of Apple and Netflix I know of very little in this direct delivery market other than what the consumer is exposed too, namely cable. Yet for all the years of Cable and Satellite a good amount of DVD sales occur because many still want something the can put their hands on.
The problem I see the new mini having other than lack of blu-ray is the fact it cost even more overseas, the prices are scary high for what you get.
No blu-r
Not so much (Score:5, Insightful)
People like owning discs and there are reasons to want to. Currently Blu-ray beats any streaming service hands down. Not surprising, as a Blu-ray is often 25mbps or more for the main movie. Nothing streams at that rate yet. Also none of the streaming services I've seen include extras, which people do like. Finally there's just the concept of owning a disc, owning a movie. People want to be able to rewatch as often as they like and not be charged. May seem silly but it is the case. Also there's just simple impulse buying. People go to the store, browse the movies, see one and say "Want." They aren't specifically out to get a movie, they are just seeing what there is and decide to grab one.
Then of course there's the net issue. While we geek types tend to have connections sufficient for easy HD streaming, many people do not. If you want to stream video well you tend to need a connection at least twice as fast as the rate you wish to stream at, to deal with dropouts and so on without an excessive buffer, and you need it to be pretty stable. Many people still have low end Internet, even if it is broadband. Here cheap cable modem service starts at 3mbps. Now it's only like $10/month more to go up to 12mbps, however people still go for the cheap shit. They say "It's all I need."
Of course then you get to the problems with the streaming services themselves. Netflix is great, pay one price and watch whatever you like, whenever you like. However the selection sucks. There are only a few things you can get watch now. I can watch X-Files but not Robot Chicken, I can watch SVU but not normal Law and Order, and movie selection is the worst of all. Vudu and Cinemanow have a much better selection, you can usually find the latest titles. However that is pay per view. $4 to watch a movie from Vudu. Not hugely expensive, but not cheap either.
Finally there's the simple issue that a Blu-ray player does all this. My $150 LG player plays Blu-rays and DVDs, of course, but also streams Netflix, Cinemanow, Vudu, Pandora, MLB.tv, and Youtube. It apparently can be upgraded too since it didn't come with MLB, that appeared after the last update. So a cheap consumer device, that has an excellent interface for TV use and works with a normal remote, streams movies off the net with ease.
I don't see the Mac mini is Apple planning years ahead (also I can give you plenty examples of Apple failing to plan), it is just a fairly expensive low end computer. Yes you can hook it to your TV, big deal. You can hook any computers with a DVI or HDMI output to your TV and they all have them these days.
Blu-ray is here to stay for some time, like it or no. Streaming is cool but people want to go and buy discs and play them.
1997 technology? (Score:3, Funny)
"Oh please, I've been able to download movie rips from the internet/usenet/whathaveyou since before DVDs EXISTED"
Has your download of Titanic completed yet?
Thanks (Score:4, Funny)
My bank account thanks you too.
Signed, an unabashed Apple Fanboi.
Re:Thanks (Score:5, Funny)
Tell me, if Steve told you to jump off a bridge, would you ask which one?
Well, Steve wouldn't just tell you to jump. He would offer three height options (iBridge 50, iBridge 100, iBridge Pro250) and then sell you the privilege of jumping off one of them.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The better joke (Score:3, Funny)
Q: If Steve told you to jump off a bridge, would you?
A: Not again.
Joke stolen from the Smothers Brothers substituting "Steve" for "CBS".
World's moxt expensive DVD player (Score:2, Interesting)
A home theater system with no Blu-Ray. Might as well buy a PS3.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Except I can't get my PS3 to see my Win7 network, but all my Macs can.
Looks good but.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Looks good, but sacrificing a frontal USB port just for aesthetics? .... meh.
I don't quite see it fitting into the living room. For that price I would expect a mac mini which works as a media box and has a natal/kninect interface. THAT would be killer! IMHO.
Re: (Score:2)
It does work as a media box, it's called Front Row and it's been included with OS X since 10.5 (and was included on selected models before then).
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I have a 2005-era Mac Mini. I love it. However, it's getting a bit slow, and the new ones are barely faster, and cost twice as much. Apple's getting harder and harder to defend these days.
Your 2005-era Mini likely has a PowerPC G4 (7447A) processor, with one core, running at 1.3 or 1.5GHz. According to MacTracker [dreamhosters.com], the 1.5 averages a score of 822 on GeekBench 2. Even a bottom of the line (2.26GHz) Mini from late 2009 (as MacTracker doesn't have today's update yet) averages a 3056 with an Intel Core 2 Duo.
The system bus has gone from 167MHz to 1066MHz, L2 cache from 512K to 3MB.
If your current machine works for you, then it's a good machine. But compared to what you have the new model is signi
Good, but not so good. (Score:3, Interesting)
Deal breaker (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless I'm missing something, this seems like a really stupid mistake that would be a deal breaker for any use in the living room.
"and if you have a separate sound system, you can use the audio out 3.5mm jack (no real surround sound here, unfortunately) for your home cinema."
Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Informative)
It's one of Apple's magic combined analog/digital 3.5mm jacks. Plug in an optical TOS cable and you've got your digital audio. It's what I do on my iMac.
The external power brick was better (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
For years now I have to listen very closely to hear the fan when my laptop is running at 100% CPU and fan. (Unlike my old Dell, which sounded like a harrier.)
If there's one company who I think can do this right it's Apple.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What's killing Apple's Time Capsules after 18 months? [guardian.co.uk]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
My mini that I still have running as a dedicated MythTV backend makes quite a bit of noise when it's
working to flag commercials in videos. It runs in a thermally abusive environment though and sits
next to a Hauppauge HD-PVR that's a hot plate in it's own right.
Those minis can be noisy when they are set to do something besides web browsing.
I'd be concerned about overheating (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know about you, but the internal power supply would make me really concerned that this thing would run hot.
Also, I had some high hopes when I read they were revving the mini - I was hoping it would have an i5 (and maybe even an i7 option).
Basically, I want an iMac, but I've got my own screens - just never gonna convince me to buy an all-in-one like that, but the Pros are overkill.
Better graphics: yay
Unibody (unopenable) case: BOO
Still Core2 instead of i5/i7: BOO
HDMI: MEH
I guess my MacBookPro will have to be an only Mac for a while longer.
just like the Time Machine (Score:2, Interesting)
No kidding.
The new Mac Mini is about the same size as Apple's Time Machine which also has an internal power supply and a well-earned reputation for suffering heat-induced death after an average of about 18 months http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/nov/04/apple-time-capsule-failures-early [guardian.co.uk]
Re:I'd be concerned about overheating (Score:5, Informative)
Unibody (unopenable) case: BOO
You can open it. From the bottom, which makes for very easy access to the RAM, unlike the previous design.
Still Core2 instead of i5/i7: BOO
Same reason the 13" MBP is still Core2Duo. Try to put a discrete graphics chip in that form factor without losing any of the other features.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, I realized that after I posted... definite upgrade (though apparently, you still can't get to the HDD to replace it)
To be honest, I hadn't thought of that. I guess it makes sense when taken in that
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The no i3/i5 seems very strange in particular since they are lower power. The i3/5 are available in 32nm which cuts power usage a good bit at the same performance (also the i series is more efficient per clock), the Core 2s are not they are still 45nm.
Not a huge deal, but if you are going minimal sizing, minimal power usage seems like a good idea too. Can't be all that expensive either, I got a laptop for about $1050 that has a Core i5 and a 5850M in it so you aren't talking ultra premium parts.
At the price
Makes for a good server (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm glad I waited; I was going to buy the previous version in the server configuration. Say what you will about HDMI ports, no blu-ray, etc., but the mini makes for a great server. I run Jira, Subversion, Postgres, and Tomcat for a dev team on one mini and it hasn't given me a minute of problems. If anything, I forget where it lives because it's so small. That said, I'd like to replace our existing one with a new one for the increased disk space (currently the db is on an external disk) and to possibly use the built-in Jabber server than the one we've got now.
Re:Makes for a good server (Score:4, Informative)
Changing the disk in the last-gen Mini isn't too hard. You have to do all the work to pull the disks to get at the RAM anyway.
Just be sure to remove the heat sensor from the HDD, rather than trying to unplug it. Not all units have a plug like the one in the iFixit tear-down, and you might need a soldering iron if you do it wrong. Don't ask me how I know.
I don't remember if there was enough clearance to fit a 12.5mm 1TB 2.5" disk. Standard 9.5mm ones fit no problem, any SATA one will be fine.
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What's the mini for? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
HTPC (Score:3, Interesting)
Not innovative (Score:2)
10W server for $1000 (Score:3, Informative)
I think $1000 for the server configuration with two 500GB drives that you can RAID is pretty darned compelling. They claim it draws 10W at idle, which makes the operating cost almost negligble. And it comes with the server OS, which is normally $500 alone.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> I think $1000 for the server configuration with two 500GB drives that you can RAID is pretty darned compelling.
Only if you are completely unaware of $200 ION nettops, $600 RAID tower boxes and, $130 2TB drives.
There's no good reason to put all of the muscle next to the TV. Put the muscle someplace else and put only what you need next to the TV.
A mini with laptop drives that you can't even service properly is not a suitable home server.
More processing power? Think again. (Score:5, Informative)
At only 1.4-inches tall the unibody aluminium enclosure includes an HDMI port, an SD card reader, and more graphics and processing power.
The new Mac Mini doesn't pack more processing power, it's actually slower than one of the previous models. The old line up included two models, one with an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2.26 GHz and one at 2.53 GHz, both with the option to upgrade to 2.66 GHz. Now the new line up includes only one model, clocked at 2.4 GHz, also with the option to upgrade to 2.66 GHz.
So all in all, the new model is faster than the entry model of the previous version, but the old line up also included a model faster than what's available now.
Re:More processing power? Think again. (Score:4, Informative)
Ah, indeed.
Looking at the actual parts involved according to wikipedia, the old mini had either a P7550 (2.26 GHz), P8700 (2.53 Ghz) or a P8800 (2.66 Ghz). The new one has a P8600 (2.4 GHz) or a P8800.
So looks like you're right and the 2.4Ghz model downgrade from the 2.53 GHz model processor-wise.
Apple's current product line (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if Apple are becoming complacent, or are focusing far too much on their mobile products. Their current product line is an illogical, uncompetitive mess (moreso than usual).
Apart from the usual "Mac Tax, no mid-level desktop blah blah blah" argument, the current product line is decidedly unappealing to a veteran mac user. I have a 2005-era Mac Mini (Core Duo 1.6GHz), and a 12" PowerBook (1.5GHz G4). If it weren't already obvious to you, I'd like to replace both, but don't have gobs of cash to do it, and would also like to get a tangible improvement for my money, and 5 years of "evolution."
We're used to paying 20% more for several intangibles (build quality, form factor, aesthetics) as well as several "tangibles" (OSX, generally top-of-the-line hardware). Right now, many macs cost double what their PC counterparts do, and although Dell and HP haven't quite gotten the memo about build quality and form factor, they're closing the gap, and Windows 7 is actually not bad at all.
Up until today, the Mac Mini hadn't seen a major redesign since the addition of a few extra USB ports around 2007. In 2010, I can pay more than my 1.6GHz machine cost in 2006 for a computer with a slightly better processor (about 2x as fast from what Passmark say), and the same (inadequate) amount of RAM. I installed a 7200RPM hard drive last year (for all of $80), which actually makes the new Mini worse in that regard. 802.11n, and the form factor improvements are nice, but the package just isn't compelling.
The 13" MacBook pro is also a baffling oddity. It's a great machine at a decent price point, and really has no peers in the PC world. However, like the Mac Mini, a C2D is inexcusable on a new machine in 2010. There's not even an expensive option for something faster or with more RAM. The 15" and 17" models are better, though, like many others, I cherish portability more than I do screen size. I'd love for Apple to bring back a 12" model, or simply sacrifice the optical drive for a bigger processor.
The iMac's got better entry level specs and pricing (which have inexplicably not trickled down to the Mini). The top-end model also has an i5, which is nice too, also considering that i7 chips too expensive to be economical for most home users. However, there's no way to get an i5 without a behemoth (but gorgeous) 27" display.
Apple's top-of-the-line workstations used to be defensible, considering that Xeon chips are seriously %*$&ing expensive, and the machines were generally rock-solid and lasted forever. Dell and HP's equivalents weren't much cheaper. However, things have changed, and the Mac Pro hasn't gotten any cheaper. Even a small bump down would be appreciated.
The RAM issue is a bit tricky too. Apple upcharges an extortionate amount on RAM upgrades, and has rather low maximums on most of its machines. Laptops are sadly rarely upgradable very far beyond the stock amount, and even the Minis and iMacs have incredibly low maximums. My G4 from 1999 has the same RAM capacity as my Mini from 2006. That's pathetic.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Hate to sound like an Apple apologist, but there's not a whole lot to be gained from going from Core to i, and some good reasons not to. [arstechnica.com]
And if it seems that they're focusing on new devices at the expense of their traditional lineup: well, sad though it may be, there's a damn good reason for it. [businessinsider.com] 5.4 billion good reasons for it (40% of revenue) in fact.
Is this for real? (Score:3, Interesting)
I almost had to check the calendar to verify it wasn't April 1st. Oi!
I wonder what their thought pattern was on this move. It's got a fraction of the performance of a PC at the same price point (yeah, because I built one - a year ago - for $100 less than that, with high quality PSU/board/etc. and a Phenom II). Hell, pick up an Acer Aspire Revo similar (practical) performance for $330 - less than half the Apple cost. Granted, the Aspire Revo has a weaker CPU, but in that role (without OS X) you're not going to need a faster CPU.
Maybe they saw the mini was selling too well so they increased the price? Seems like a really silly move, considering it now costs more to get a mini than it does an iMac (after peripherals and monitor), with less performance.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, Macs are surprisingly resilient. I once broke
Internal P/S = no bueno (Score:3, Interesting)
The Mac Mini is popular with car customizers because of the size and the external power supply. It's easy to adapt to a DC-DC regulator so it works off of 12V automobile (or boat) power.
Now they'll have to resort to a inverter.
and now for the newest meme... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Expensive (Score:5, Informative)
Look at the UK prices. Once you take off VAT at 17.5%, and then convert to US$, it is 17% more expensive.
Also, the Mac Mini first started at £399 when it was introduced, and affordable computer, it now starts at £649, with mediocre hardware.
It's a rip off, for sure!
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A few years ago I was in London and I bought a paperback science fiction novel. (Day of The Triffds, if you must know). The price was £9, or $9.50 Canadian. At the time the exchange rate was almost two dollars Canadian to one Pound. Now, the book was published, printed and distributed by a UK company and it cost almost twice as much in the UK as it did in Canada. And they had to pay to ship it to Canada.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
IIRC, the UK has stronger consumer protection laws that Apple must deal with. Things like being able to get an item replaced after then end of the warranty period if it breaks.
I've pointed this out myself a few times. The UK (AFAIK) always had quite good consumer laws, and the EU (if anything) strengthens that.
People in the UK might be surprised to know that the PS2 only had a 90 day warranty in the US. I've seen new laptops with as little as a 30 day warranty. Now, if you know that you're not going to have to cover repairs or replacements for anything more than a brief period after sale you're obviously going to save money on that, and be able to sell cheaper goods.
I can't r
Re:Expensive (Score:4, Informative)
In the UK at least, the Mac Mini includes iLife.
If you think about what you are getting in such a small package. Now that the PSU is inside and the RAM upgrade is easy (via the removable bottom panel), it becomes quite an attractive package.
Granted that it is quite a jump from the old model but this one is even smaller and with more inside.
I'm looking at an Asus eeeBox eb1502 as I write this. This is physically larger than the Mini. IT has an exteranl PSU as well. The mini has a far more powerful CPU than the Atom in the eebox. Granted that the Mini is twice the price but for me, it is a great package.
Last month, I got my next door neighbour to buy a Mini. IT replaced a Dell Tower (some 5 years old) that was so full of malware (they have two girls who use Facebook etc...) that it was so slow. The HDD was giving up the ghost with lots of errors.
They are really pleased with the mini. iTunes & limewire works. As does FarmVille, Facebook & UTube. They have MSOffice and they are really happy with their new system.
No more AV software crippling the system and demanding reboots. No more under the cover software updates that demand a reboot.
My life is far easier now that they are using the Mini. Yeah, I'm their IT Support. Even the Parental Controls work very well OOTB. That was always hit & miss on the PC.
I am in no doubt that the Apple computing experiece is far more bounded that the Windows one but as the PC market marutes PC are becoming appliances. The best in class appliance IMHO, is the apple one and the Mini is a great lead into it of you already have a Screen, keyboars & mouse.
Just my 2p worth.
Re:Expensive (Score:4, Interesting)
About the same form factor? Did you even look at what you linked? That Shuttle is about the size of a shoebox, not a couple of stacked CD cases. There's absolutely no comparison, other than that they're both much smaller than a full tower.
If you care about the expandability, or price/performance, then definitely go with the Shuttle. If you want a tiny, low-power-consumption, attractive system that can easily be used as a set-top box, then paying a premium for the Mini is probably a better choice. Not everyone shops only on price - value can be derived from places other than raw computing power.
Re:Expensive (Score:4, Insightful)
The thing is, if non techy people have their box die on them, they're not going to switch to a Mac Mini that probably costs more than their original complete system did.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's exactly right. This price is no longer anywhere near the "hmmm, maybe I could switch" zone. And I say that as someone who really did encourage switching at the $499 price point. You could just barely justify it. No longer.
Also... bear in mind that $699 is the entry price. That machine, with 8 GB ram, 500 GB drive, and a 2.66 GHz CPU, is $1449.
It's a nice box, but like the rest of the Mac line these days, it's also a luxury box.
There's a recession, Steve. $700 isn't petty cash to most people, a
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well, it's aimed at people who already have a USB keyboard, a USB mouse and a USB microphone.
Re:Expensive (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll be blunt: if you can afford a Mini, you can afford either a new USB keyboard or a PS/2-to-USB adapter for your old one. In the list of reasons why you might not want a Mini, this non-issue is so far down as to be nonexistent.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
...yes. The old "you are being overcharged anyways so you might as well be content at wasting some more money" argument.
Re:Expensive (Score:4, Insightful)
Including PS/2 connectors would have better met that goal without discouraging any customers with USB-only peripherals.
The subset of people who would want a Mini and who refuse to upgrade past PS/2 keyboards and mice is null. If you want to bitch about an adapter, bitch that it doesn't support VGA or DVI without buying the extra cable. But seriously, you just can't credibly whine that you'll have to shell out another $5 to buy a keyboard and mouse from this decade.
The Dell I'm typing this on doesn't have PS/2 jacks. The (much older) Dell it's sitting on doesn't have PS/2 jacks. My home server doesn't have PS/2 jacks. Neither of my laptops have PS/2 jacks. I suppose you think that Dell, HP, IBM, Gigabyte, and Apple are all being miserly bastards, but the truth is that you have obsolete peripherals that won't work on the majority of new systems. Either buy an adapter (as I said I did so I can keep using my Model M) or go to the Salvation Army and ask if you can have a spare USB keyboard and mouse. They're ubiquitous now.
Other topics off-limits to bitching: the lack of parallel parallel ports, serial mice ports, and ISA slots.
Re:Expensive (Score:4, Informative)
If you want to bitch about an adapter, bitch that it doesn't support VGA or DVI without buying the extra cable.
It comes with an HDMI to DVI adapter in the box. You are correct about VGA though.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Apple does include it. The current mini comes with the DisplayPort to DVI adapter already, so no need for the adapter you mention.
As an aside, the local Fry's recently had current minis on sale for $100 off: 2GB / 2.24GHz versions for $500.
Re:Expensive (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In terms of being an HTPC...
The mini didn't need to be any smaller. It didn't need a more powerful GPU. It also didn't need a price increase.
It already had to deal with competitors 1/3rd it's price.
Allowing for "more" in the mini itself would have been a better idea.
Also, moving the power supply into the main case is a DUMB idea because it
complicates cooling issues. There was really no problem with it being on the
outside. In back of a TV stand, it really won't matter if there's a power
brick back there too.
I
Re: (Score:3)
Power supply built in is great. Smaller size is great. Better graphics is very nice. You're such a lame anti-Apple troll that you put down all the things about the new mini that are better than the old one. The only real disappointment with the update is the increased price.
HDMI sucks as a PC display connector. It's only really good for connecting to a TV. It's interesting that the HDMI port on the mini supports higher-than-1080p resolution (1080p being the reason HDMI is so awful for desktop use). Apple ha
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you're buying a Mac Mini to run Windows, you're doing it wrong. There are $250 Dells and whatnot for that! The only reason to get the Mac Mini is if you specifically want Mac OS and don't want to deal with the complications (legal and otherwise) of turning that aforementioned $250 machine into a hackintosh.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well Windows 7 doesn't really cost $200 either... more like $150.
Well.. Windows 7 OEM, which would be on an off the shelf PC doesnt really cost $150 either. More like $30-50 tops.
So I checked apple.com, and the *upgrade* is only $29, but if you're running an older 10.4 system then you need the full OS. That costs $170. That's the OS tax which is included in every Mac, same as the Windows tax is included in every PC.
Again.. OEM price. Even though the maker of the OS and the hardware are the same company. So basically, they can get it at cost.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Please explain then how the Mac Mini is in any way trapped in a walled garden then. So far, both ACs have only demonstrated one or more of the following:
1) You don't know what a walled garden is.
2) You don't know anything about OSX machines.
3) You're just trolling and 1 and 2 are irrelevant.
Maybe when you're all growed up, you'll get your very own Slashdot account and get over name-calling. Now go get ready for bed little one, and don't forget to brush your teeth.
Re:Expensive (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Expensive (Score:5, Informative)
You can choose a dual-core Athlon for $45 more than the $250 one.
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The largest problem with the Zino is that it is sold by Dell.
You'll go through two or three of them in the lifespan of one Mac Mini, in my experience. Maybe Dell's only suck if you use them at work. I've never been brave enough to try one at home.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You can choose a dual-core Athlon for $45 more than the $250 one.
Sure. You also go from 1.6 GHz down to 1.5 GHz.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Dell also sells the Hybrid [dell.com] for, um, some reason.
Say what you will about Steve Jobs, one of the smartest things he did when he first returned to Apple was slash the product line down to a few simple categories. There's nothing I hate more than trying to compare laptops from Dell or HP. Someone at each of those companies needs to watch this. [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's $599 for the dual-core 1.8GHz option that's closest to the Mac Mini.
Bigger hard drive (750GB) and 4GB RAM however.
Weaker graphics, weaker CPU, bigger box.
You can upgrade the graphics to the HD4330 for another $75. You can't upgrade the CPU.
I'd say the prices were comparable, but with the Mac Mini you can update the hard drive space or add it via USB or FW800, and you can increase the memory. You can't increase the CPU on the Dell.
Windows / Mac OS X is personal preference of course, but iLife has to be
Re:Expensive (Score:5, Informative)
Dell Zino vs Mac mini comparison:
Z & M- Gig Ethernet, 4 USB, SD card reader, 2GB RAM base - up to 8GB
Z- M-Radeon HD 3200, M-Radeon HD 4330 option (nice)
M- NVIDIA GeForce 320M (faster)
Z- max 1.8GHz Athlon dual
M- max 2.6GHz Core2Duo (alot faster)
Z- base 160GB HD, max 1TB (unless you buy your own)
M- base 320GB HD, max 500GB (unless you buy your own)
Z- VGA & HDMI
M- DP & HDMI
Z- eSATA
M- FW800
Z- analog audio I/O, mic, optional better audio upgrades available
M- analog + digital optical audio I/O
Z- external power brick
M- internal PS (new feature - I like it)
Z- flimsy tray load DVD
M- slot load DVD
Z- WiFi - optional
M- 802.11n (a/b/g/n) WiFi standard
Z- Bluetooth ?? (seems to be no option)
M- Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR standard
Z- Windows Vista OS - base (Win7 -> +$150)
M- MacOS X Snow Leopard
Z- 3.4 x 7.8 x 7.8 inch, 4lb, plastic
M- 1.4 x 7.7 x 7.7 inch, 3lb, aluminum
Z- enviro - you can BTO a tree planting - woo hoo
M- enviro responsible/recycleable if that's a big thing to you
Z- Configured to come anywhere close to base Mac mini - $503
M- Base price - $699
If you upgrade the Zino to a 320GB HD, best Athlon CPU, par up the graphics, add WiFi, and add Windows 7 to the Dell Zino, you're within $50 of the Mac mini price, and you still don't have a fast CPU, Firewire, Bluetooth, DisplayPort, digital audio I/O, or a slot load DVD drive. Plus you also don't have the build quality. Methinks the Mac mini wins hands down compared to the Zino, and probably any other SFF PC on the planet.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
>> Z- Windows Vista OS - base (Win7 -> +$150)
The $150 upgrade is for Win7-Ultimate -- they had a $30 upgrade option for Win7HomePremium
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Comparing apples to oranges. Well, to other Apples actually, but what the heck.
The mini is a great machine for the living room, and why would you want to put a MacBook there? The form factor is different, pretty much everything else about the hardware is different. We live in an age where the old PC mantra of "one user, one machine" isn't true anymore. Today, most of us own several computers already - if I count my phone, I have 3 at home and 2 at work plus a few servers out there. Ten, even five years ago,
Cheap (Score:2)
Buy it with a screen and a keyboard ant it will cost you more that a 27" iMac with a quad Core i7.
But what if I already have a screen and don't want to buy a screen with my Mac?
Or use it as a media PC where the screen is my TV...
You can just as easily say the screen is bundled at a discount with the iMac.
Re: (Score:3)
If you already have a $1,000+ HDTV, the mini is certainly elegant looking, and a hell of a lot punchier than any of the atom-based HTPCs in similar size classes(albeit 1/2 to 1/3 the price); but I'm not sure how much of a virtue that wi
Re:Expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
For all its sexiness (and $699, apparently) it comes with no screen, keyboard or mouse. Granted, people will probably use this with their TV, but having no bundled keyboard/mouse is a real shame. And to think that the Mini was supposed to be an entry point (price-wise) in the Apple Mac world.
I think the part we're supposed to be shocked about is that they really do consider this to be an entry price.
Whenever I replace my current mini I think I'll probably go the hackintosh route with one of the small form factor PC cases. I really do like having a computer permanently hooked up to my TV.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I've never bought an Apple product, but presumably they sell keyboards and mice in the Apple store. That way you can choose between a standard one, and a wireless one, or whatever.
I'd prefer PCs in normal stores to come with no keyboard and mouse, the provided ones are typically crap anyway.
Re:Just remember (Score:5, Insightful)
I like apple, but GOD DAMN, do they need to look at reality once in awhile. I might buy this if it was $300-$350. That would be a pretty good deal, I think. I could build better for that price, but not in that small a form factor. A little realism in their pricing might be a very good thing for them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This smells like someone at Apple paranoid that the Mini is going to undercut some other product and turning it in
Re:Price point creeping up (Score:5, Informative)
So with the current mini you're looking at doubling the ram like you always have to for a stock machine and it's a proprietary case not meant for user fiddling so you have to pay the mac store to install the ram
They actually designed the case so the RAM is user upgradable, just scroll down http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html [apple.com]
Re: (Score:2)
They actually designed the case so the RAM is user upgradable, just scroll down http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html [apple.com] [apple.com]
That's a nice change. How about the hard drive? Doesn't say whether you can get at it from there. You'd have to look at the dissection guide for the older minis to believe just how awful they were to work on. Not meant to be opened. Lots of stuff to break. Like twiddling with laptop bits, all the delicate plastic ribbon cables and parts that could bend and break just by looking at them crosseyed.
Re:Price point creeping up (Score:5, Informative)
so you have to pay the mac store to install the ram
It's not easy to replace the RAM as in other cases, but there are a number of guides online how to do it. The only unique tool you will need is a putty knife.
then you have to get the mouse and keyboard which will be wireless and thus more expensive, plus any other accessories you might pick up.
You don't have to get a wireless keyboard and mouse. You can use USB ones. Or if you already have one like from Logitech it will work.
Oh, and let's no forget the mandatory service plan since Apple gives you a flat one month warranty, that's it. My mini's hard drive took a shit at one year plus two months. They told me I was SOL.
The warranty is one year [apple.com] not one month. One year is fairly standard. And no one is forcing you to buy a service plan.
In your case the HD failed, not the MB so I don't see how your are SOL. HDs fail and the HD isn't a part that Apple manufactures so they don't have control over the quality of it. Replace it and you still have a computer. You'll lose all your data if you didn't perform regular backups
Re:Price point creeping up (Score:5, Informative)
> Oh, and let's no forget the mandatory service plan since Apple gives you a flat one month warranty, that's it.
In what God-forsaken country do you live ? In all of the EU all the Apple products have a two-year national warranty (including a one year international warranty coverage) by default.
Also: no other company would have replaced a component they don't manufacture (the hdd) after the warranty expired.
You're a troll.
Re:Price point creeping up (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and let's no forget the mandatory service plan since Apple gives you a flat one month warranty, that's it. My mini's hard drive took a shit at one year plus two months. They told me I was SOL.
AFAIK this is totally wrong? I thought all Apple products come with a one year warranty (90 days of phone support).
You could also have bought a 3 year warranty (Which I never do on something this cheap) for like $150 iirc.
Sucks that the drive broke, but surely a slashdotter could open a mac mini and replace the drive easily enough? I've done so on many models of iMac (even back it was hard!)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I have absolutely no idea how you got moderated +5 Interesting. Almost all of what you say is wrong, except perhaps that you bought a Mac Mini and own a TV. The RAM is user upgradeable on this model. You can use any USB wired or wireless input devices; I use a logitech internet desktop 250 set; the pair cost me $7.50. That leaves me at price plus $7.50. I have a 19" Viewsonic LCD I use with the system, which can be had for around ~$100 these days. The warranty is 1 year in the US; I can't imagine wher
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The statement about the RAM was only wrong because Apple finally decided to fix the problem.
It wasn't so much "wrong" as it was OUTDATED.
That doesn't make it a troll exactly.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The "standard warranty" forces you to dicker around with the service department at Apple.
The "one month" is how long you have to return the device if it is defective.
If you think it's defective after that, they won't let you return it any more and they
restrict you to warranty repair service.
So do all of your torture testing early.
Re: (Score:2)
why was this modded troll? I think its way overpriced. Or put another way, you pay for the small design and not for the specs. Which is IMHO a valid point the parent poster made.
There are still people in this world that think specs > outer design. sigh.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The 3.5mm audiojack has mini-Toslink built in.
Re:Come on Apple, you should know better. (Score:5, Interesting)
"A desktop OS will, and never will, be suited for anything other than a Desktop... it will never work on the Living Room."
Based upon what? Right now I run a Windows 7 system via my 50" Samsung in my living room. I use two bluetooth mice and keyboard. The keyboard is rarely used. My system works perfectly.
To get to a movie or TV show you double click My Computer and double click the mapped drives to the movies or shows. Using the scroll wheel you whip through hundreds of movies or subfolders with the shows. You want to instantly get to the end of the list, use the scroll bar. Double click on the one you want.
Media Player Classic opens and you can use the mouse to instantly zip through the movie or show via the seek bar without using the slow "fast" forward or rewind buttons you get with a remote. You don't realize how much fast forward and rewind buttons suck until you start using a mouse to traverse through videos. You want to go half way into the movie, one click and you're half way into the movie. Want to skip to the end, one click and you're at the end. Instantly.
You want to turn up the volume? Scroll up on the mouse. You want to turn it down? Scroll down. You want to pause, click the mouse. Want to unpause, click again.
Tired of watching TV shows or movies on your TV? Double click a short cut to your "rock" play-list on your desktop and the music instantly starts. Want to find a specific song. Double click on the Winamp library, get the song you want, and listen to it.
I have friends who use their PS3s and 360s to access content. That works. You can even buy remotes for them. But I can get to my content much quicker and with more ease than they ever could.
And one more thing, I don't have to wait for some manufacturer to play catch-up. If some new video codec or wrapper is released, I can instantly watch it in my living room. I don't have to wait a few months in hopes that Sony or someone else will play catch-up and include support for it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Atom's integrated graphic chipset doesn't "pull" 1080p.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I haven't spent any money on a Blu-Ray yet...
I have a 52" LCD HDTV, AppleTV (XBMC), DirecTV HD DVR, and a old upscaling DVD player.
Why haven't I bought a Blu-Ray yet? Because I have yet to find anything on blu-ray I'm willing to pay the "tax" for.