iPad Will Beat Netbooks With "Magic" 1010
entirely_fluffy writes "In a talk intended to woo investors, Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook said the iPad will win over potential netbook buyers, but not because of specs or features. No, Cook said, the iPad's magical properties will seal the deal. 'The netbook is not an experience people are going to continue wanting to have,' Cook said, according to Macworld. 'When they play with the iPad and experience the magic of using it ... I have a hard time believing they're going to go for a netbook.'" Another thing that would help would be a camera and a $100 discount, but hey Magic is cool too, provided they have enough mana.
Hunters.. (Score:5, Funny)
Given mages constant grieving towards hunters, they will most likely stay away from this.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Insightful)
WahahahahHAHAHAHAHA! But seriously, I'll buy one...when the price drops to $300 or less.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This is hilarious.
When it was first announced, everybody and their dog figured Apple would charge closer to $1000 for the base model, and now it's hundreds of dollars overpriced at $499.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, that was before it was officially announced, with prices and details. Everyone figured it'll be closer to $1000 based on rumors of such device coming from Apple. It was still when everyone thought it would actually have a good hardware, open, as in more closer to OSX than iPhone, OS and good features.
It wasn't anything like that, but useless device, which is overpriced for what it has actually has or does.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Informative)
The hell are you talking about?
When it was first announced it was announced WITH the price, and the general reaction, here and other places I looked, was "wow, that would be nice if it was $300".
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Informative)
The hell are you talking about?
He's talking about all the rumors saying it would be "less than $1,000", which means $999
When it was first announced it was announced WITH the price, and the general reaction, here and other places I looked, was "wow, that would be nice if it was $300".
No, the general reaction here (and some other places) was that it's a big iPhone, and it would be nice if it was a tablet MacBook. Criticism that it would be a good product at $300 wasn't to be found anywhere. The 32GB iPod touch costs that much.
The only criticism that mentioned anything about $300 was that netbooks cost that much, and are "more capable". Where the iPad $300, those people would have just said, "for the same price, I can buy a netbook that is more capable", as their argument really isn't about the price, but about wanting a small device that runs Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X, which the iPad most certainly is not (and for good reason).
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This is hilarious.
When it was first announced, everybody and their dog figured Apple would charge closer to $1000 for the base model, and now it's hundreds of dollars overpriced at $499.
This is hilarious.
The RDF is so strong the zealots don't even remember that the price was announced along with the device.
Apple intentionally leaked over the top rumors in an effort to throw off speculation about the price and to keep competitors guessing.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Funny)
For some Apple fanatics, Apple could sell them a kick in the balls and they'd stand in line for six days just to buy it.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Funny)
For some Apple fanatics, Apple could sell them a kick in the balls and they'd stand in line for six days just to buy it.
I'm pretty sure that was called Apple TV.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Funny)
For some Apple fanatics, Apple could sell them a kick in the balls and they'd stand in line for six days just to buy it.
Well let's be realistic. If it were Steve Jobs delivering the ball kicks himself, then ya there is a select group of fanatics that would stand in line. You have to admit it could be pretty cool. Imagine what you could shout right before he kicks you:
"OS9 sucked" POW
"I bought a mac just to run linux" POW
"IPad?! Come on, how stupid is that?" POW
Now if it were just some apple branded ball kicking machine, then no, who would want to line up for that? I'd just order mine online.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Insightful)
"Trailing edge"?
Apple led the charge of SCSI, USB, FireWire, Bluetooth, integrated webcams, multitouch, WiFi, sudden motion sensors, new battery technologies, unibody construction, DVD burners...
TO start with, USB was developed by Microsoft amongst other company's according to Wikipedia, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus [wikipedia.org] ) so I'm not believing that they led the charge of it. FireWire is made by Apple ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewire [wikipedia.org] ), yet isn't the standard option with iPods, iPhones or other major Apple products, USB is. And if a company won't stand by it's own standards with its highest standing products, I wouldn't call that leading the charge. As for your other 'facts', they would take a lot of effort to figure out the truth, and with you blunt mis-understanding of USB alone makes me lean towards you talking whatever you feel without wanting/needing facts.
Current Macs all have Core2Duo or better. That is by *no* reckoning "trailing edge".
Since the Core2Duo was made in 2007, and most PC makers use the i3/5/7 chips that are new and faster... that would be considered trailing edge ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_2_microprocessors#Core_2_Duo [wikipedia.org] )
Backlit keyboards, mini displayport, magsafe--these, or similar features, are by no means even *remotely* common.
Mini DisplayPort are Apple tech, so thats more of a 'force upon' then leading edge ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_Display_Port [wikipedia.org] ) Similar to how a lot of Sony products use a Memory Stick. Its not forward thinking, its forward 'pushing'.
As for a premium, that's absurd. Macs cost similar, and often cheaper, than equivalently specced PCs.
I always do love this one. Total BS because all Apple users pray to god no one will check. So lets check. I'll compare the best 15 inch MacBook Pro to a Dell Alienware laptop of as similar spec's as I can: (and before I hear the 'Apple makes top quality hardware claims, this PDF comparing laptop hareware: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf [squaretrade.com] )
Apple MacBook Pro: 15 inch ( http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=MTM3NDczMDg [apple.com] )
CPU: 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (only option)
RAM: 8GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
HD: 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
Display: 1440-by-900-pixel LED-backlit display
Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 512MB
Alienware 15.6 inch laptop: ( http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DKCWFW1&s=dhs [dell.com] )
CPU (best I could match, Dell doesn't use the older Core 2 Duo): Intel® Core i7-620M 2.66GHz (3.33Ghz Turbo Mode, 4M cache)
RAM: 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1066MHz
HD: 500GB SATAII 7,200RPM
Display: WideHD+ 1600x900
Graphics card: 512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 240M (new gen card)
Apple doesn't state it's battery size, so assumed 9 cell, the best
Both have wi-fi cards (Apple doesn;t say with one), backlit keyboards.
Now the Apple, with a smaller screen (pixel size), slower CPU, slower/older graphics card, older gen HD will set you back $2,749.00. The Faster Alienware with a faster CPU, newer graphics card, new gen HD, larger (pixel count) screen will set you back $2,024. Saving more then $700 for a faster laptop over the Apple... I don't see how your last claim works... But pl
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem with the cost of the iPad is more than the hardware cost, it's the fact that you'll need to buy a bunch of little apps to do stuff with it. The elegance of the netbook is that, despite being a tiny crap machine, it is usually bundled with a software suite that's tailored to the small screen and expected usage patterns. You don't need to buy special software to run on your netbook, you just fire up your favorite package manager and load whatever you need for free, or if it's windows you can install the same apps you use on your full-sized laptop or desktop computer.
With the iPad, not only will we need to buy all these stupid little 5 dollar apps, but it will still be tethered to a regular computer running iTunes.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Informative)
You clearly do not speak from experience. The built-in apps cover all the basics (just like any standard Windows install). There are plenty of free apps, and there is *NO* more need to "buy all these stupid little 5 dollar apps" on the iPhone than there is to "buy all these stupid little $30 apps" on Windows.
But even that's a bit of a red herring. There's nothing wrong with paying for something which provides you value.
As for being tethered to iTunes, you can run an iPad completely without using iTunes, including buying apps, syncing contacts and bookmarks, buying music, TV Shows, movies, renting movies, the works.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If Apple starts to allow multiple third party apps to run at the same time then they are going to lose their "it just works" image. They will have to admit that their OS isn't really better than the other guy's OS because when you get right down it, you can have the best OS in the world, but if a third party developer doesn't follow your programming recommendations, it can lead to a "poor user experience".
I bought an OSX box a couple of years ago to see what the hype was all about. If you're running only Apple products, it runs fine. As soon as you start running a few other programs that aren't from Apple, it's just another computer. The latest headache I had to help sort out for a friend was the tangled mess that is Apple "Sync Services", Microsoft Entourage, and the Blackberry Desktop software. At least with Windows problems, or Linux problems, you can search for a solution. With Apple problems, often times the "answer" seems to be, "If you were using an iPhone instead of a Blackberry, and Mail instead of Entourage..."
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
What I like about a netbook:
* Linux
* Windows
* Openoffice
* Microsoft Office
* Photoshop
* Ivona voice reader
* Keepass
* Paint Shop Pro
* Qimage
* Mplayer
* Media Player Classic
* Handbrake
* FFdshow
* Goldwave
* Imgburn
* SmartDraw
* VNC
* Remote desktop
* Firefox
* Opera
* Fallout 1
* MAME
* Virtual PC
* VMware
* Flash games
* C64 Emulator
* Amiga Emulator
* Spectrum Emulator
* Qt
* USB devices
* Ultraedit
* PSpad
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Informative)
* Multitasking
* FreeDOS
* Android
* *BSD
* OpenSolaris
* Doom
* Quake (well, original Quake with software rendering)
* Apache
and on and on, but I really wanted to get "Multitasking" in there.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
What your average joe will say... (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell is all that crap? I just want to browse the web and update my facebook status from the couch without looking like a nerd.
Apple does not produce computing devices for nerds. They produce computing appliances for people.
For every action your normal joe wants to do, there is a relatively stable, secure, and predictable application to do it, which integrates well across the entire Apple platform. They deliver a candy coated information experience, not a platform for geeking out. I despise some parts of their business model, but it does seem to work out well for them.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Funny)
Magic
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Funny)
Well, you see, with the iPad, there is:
No keyboard.
It's more expensive than an introductory laptop
Has lousy processing and RAM compared to same
Made of low quality parts.
The OS sucks on small screens
But:
It's from Apple, therefore, all those points are either irrelevant or actually features. You see, it is not the actual hardware or software quality that makes an Apple an Apple. It's the brand. No other brand produces nearly the same sense of smug satisfaction and gloating superiority. Besides owning a large truck that is never used for hauling or off road sporting, nothing says "I have a small penis" like owning something from Apple.
Ouch, the 'small penis' bit hurt... (Score:5, Funny)
nothing says "I have a small penis" like owning something from Apple.
I don't want to be thinking things like that about my girlfriend...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That's okay, just pretend it's a really big clit.
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Funny, I thought it was made for a phone.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
what I don't like about a netbook:
keyboard too small for real typing
not much cheaper than an introductory laptop
lousy processing and ram compared to same introductory laptop
made of same low quality parts as same introductory laptop
windows sucks on small screens
What I don't like about the iPad:
No keyboard.
Not much cheaper than... a netbook (actually, more expensive than most).
Lousy processing and RAM compared to... a netbook.
Made of the same low quality parts as... well, all consumer electronics.
Crippled OS is hardly an OS, on any size screen.
So... what makes it better than a netbook, again, Apple?
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Oh, geeks do want an Internet tablet. But they don't want a crappy, over-priced one. I though almost every OS could handle multitasking after DOS age, and most did before that too (yeah yeah, it can multi-task, but doesn't allow you to - still the same thing for me in usability point of view). I also don't want to buy everything from their store, where everything costs and is controlled. How do you think open source software would work on this thing?
I would love to have a nice internet tablet while I'm on s
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Informative)
the problem is that many of the things you are listing as features are things that have been available on netbooks since they were first released and are simply assumed to be there on any portable computer ...
* 3g and unlocked? any computer is 3g and unlocked if you buy the 3g service from AT&T
* iwork? openoffice is available on any computer and almost every platform
* low price compared to what? it's 2x that of a netbook
* larger screen than iphone / itouch? netbooks have had 10" screen standard since they were released. also, their screens are 16x9, the aspect ratio of ever modern view device
* can use bluetooth keyboard? many netbooks don't have bluetooth, but they have USB which is much more versatile and obviously can be used to connect wireless keyboards and mice along with anything else you can imagine
* all netbooks have VGA out and can drive an external monitor. ours can go to 1600x1200 beating the ipad's 1024x768
* modern netbooks have 8+ hours battery life (ours quotes 10 hours)
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So... she'd run similar software on both devices. How does the pad not need patching, updating, securing and whatnot?
I mean, the device sounds quite good for what you planned it for but the reasoning doesn't make sense to me... To keep other things things similar, let's compare to a Mac. Why is the ipad less maintenance-heavy than a Macbook with same exact usage model?
Re:Hunters.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If someone is so incapable of using a computer without fucking it up, they don't need a "locked down appliance", they just need to be kept the hell away from computers period.
Rather than comparing inept computer users to incompetent drivers, you should compare them to drivers who don't remember to get their oil changed or other maintenance done.
Should those drivers be criticized because they want a digital odometer that says "service needed" every 3,000 miles, and then take it to a mechanic who does the oil and filter work at a higher cost than doing it oneself? Of course not. Not everyone wants to be a mechanic just because they need to drive somewhere.
Apple wants to sell the iPad to people who don't like upgrading their software, installing from DVDs, or properly connecting a wi-fi router. These skills should not be considered mandatory learning for someone who just wants to email and surf.
Re:Hunters.. (Score:4, Insightful)
If someone is so incapable of using a computer without fucking it up, they don't need a "locked down appliance", they just need to be kept the hell away from computers period.
To make a car analogy: if someone is so incapable of using a car that they can't shift gears without fucking it up, they don't need a car mechanic, they need to be kept the hell away from cars period.
You utterly, totally fail to understand how the vast majority of the population views computers and computing: as a tool to do something, while getting out of the way of doing said something. And since the vast majority of the population votes, you will never, ever get your idea to pass. Not unless you're the nation's benevolent dictator, in which case you need to watch out for someone else becoming benevolent dictator by offing your ass.
The magic in Apple's iPhone and iPad is that they get that. They get that people actually want an appliance to do specific stuff, not a general computing device. And that's why they keep making money hand over fist, to the general surprise of a lot of self-proclaimed computer experts.
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To make a car analogy: if someone is so incapable of using a car that they can't shift gears without fucking it up, they don't need a car mechanic, they need to be kept the hell away from cars period.
I totally agree.
If we had drivers who knew what they were doing the toyota issues would not have killed people.
Magic huh? (Score:5, Funny)
I hope he knows I've got the patent on magic, and the magic blue smoke in devices.
Re:Magic huh? (Score:5, Funny)
and the magic blue smoke in devices.
I hope you know that infringes on Microsoft's patented BSOD (Blue Smoke of Death).
Re:Magic huh? (Score:5, Funny)
I think it's pretty sad when you have to resort to Sorcery to sell your products. That should be a crime.
Re:Magic huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Sales? (Score:3, Funny)
So your sales strategy involves a free trial for everyone?
Re:Sales? (Score:4, Informative)
They'll probably also carry them at Best Buys and other places that also sell Apple hardware.
Magic can be used up. (Score:4, Insightful)
How much magic is left in the Apple Lisa?
I wouldn't depend on *that* for long.
Err... (Score:3, Interesting)
The magic of a black box (Score:5, Insightful)
So many people treat computers like a black box that I wouldn't be surprised if this does give netbooks a run for their money. It's doubtful that it will take hold in the more technically oriented community (closed as it is,) but in the "I don't care I just want it to work" arena it may do quite well.
As for what the hell the magic is, above and beyond being a giant iPod/iPhone, I do not know.
Re:The magic of a black box (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it honestly need to be anything more beyond a giant iPod Touch?
I would never have spent the money on an iPod Touch, but I won one in a contest. I'm a full card-carrying geek, but at the risk of losing my geek card, the iPod Touch was a magical little device. It's absolute crap for listening to music (limited storage space, crappy tinny speaker, etc) but as a little miniature computer it is truly amazing. I played with it for about 1 day before my wife latched on to it and wouldn't let go (what the hell? saved me buying her an iPhone).
During the time I've used it, I found myself occasionally thinking, "gee, you know, the interface is top notch, the tablet form factor is perfect for casual surfing, but I just wish the screen was bigger".
The geek in me hates the closed nature, the fixed memory, the non-replaceable battery, the Reality Distortion Field telling me what apps are OK for me to run and what are not.
The "screw it just want to surf the web in the evenings and maybe read a book occasionally" is fighting with the "but you can't spend $600 for THAT!" accountant in me over whether I want one.
A netbook is cheaper, probably has better battery life, is less "closed", and by all accounts is a better solution to any problem you care to name. But, sitting in bed or lounging in the easychair wanting to look up some obscure bit of trivia or watch a video from the Olympics (can't do it on the desktop - Linux Users Need Not Apply at nbcolympics dot com), I find myself snagging the iPod more often than I dig out the laptop. The tablet-style form factor is just too convenient.
Re:The magic of a black box (Score:5, Informative)
Umm, because I can watch them just fine on my iPod Touch?
I was watching highlights of Olympic Hockey last night on it, from NBC's Olympic site. I've watched YouTube videos on it. No problem.
Or are you suggesting that Apple is going to remove all that functionality when the iPad comes out?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The "Giant iPod Touch" version (no 3G) is $499. Half a grand != "close to a grand", at least not using any math I've ever heard of.
Granted, it's more costly than your average netbook and has less memory, but it's not meant to be a netbook. It's meant to be a tablet.
And in the tablet market, $499 is relatively competitive.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
this type of comment comes up every single article on slashdot. Enough already.
I just read 2 books recently on my ipod touch. Its an experience I will repeat. I have absolutely no problems with lcd screens. I read them all damn day as I code. I get absolutely no eye strain whatsoever. I can lie in bed comfortably with the lights off and have a nicely lit book that isn't too bright to read from.
This comes down to vision I think. Some people will get eye strain from LCD, others will be fine. Just beca
Also known as (Score:3, Insightful)
Or, in business terms, "we could sell poop in a box and people would buy it because of their trust in Apple, also know as brand equity, which we will burn in exchange for cash with this product."
"Magic" is a good term for great UI... (Score:5, Interesting)
"Magic" is really a good description for trying to create the maximum user experience.
As a happy owner of the iPad Nano (aka iPod Touch) for over a year now, Apple has real potential here in the scaled-up version, and this really is a good description of why the iPad may sell and the iPhone has sold: a cohesive user experience.
And here's one of the big uses: VNC. Have the iPad be the remote desktop to your "real" computer.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Magic" is really a good description for trying to create the maximum user experience.
I just call it 'aesthetic'. *shrug*
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There is a huge difference in scale here.
The iPhone and iPod Touch work well because touchscreens work well when held in one hand and manipulated with another (or held in both and manipulated with both).
Apple may be good at UI design, but once you start setting the iPad down because it is too big to keep holding all the time, things will start to get annoying in a hurry. Laptops are bad enough without a stand as far as neck-strain and the like are concerned when you don't have a stand, a touchscreen PC wil
What's wrong with netbooks? (Score:5, Interesting)
What's wrong with netbooks?
I got one for $300 a few months ago, and it does pretty much everything I'd ask it to. Office applications, internet, chat (and it does have a webcam and microphone, something I believe the iPad doesn't), and it even does (some of) the games on my Steam account. Not to beat a dead horse, but it doesn't hurt that the netbook has a faster processor, four times the storage of the biggest iPad, Flash, and USB support, either.
I'm not going to deny that the iPad can do things my netbook can't and that it's a much sexier piece of hardware, but I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with "the netbook experience."
Nothing new... (Score:4, Insightful)
The article doesn't really add anything new, it's just spouting the general opinion that's been floating around since the launch.
I would say Apple's own logo and buzz will make people want it. We have to keep in mind it isn't the geeks that make these gadgets popular, it's when the soccer moms are buying them for themselves and their husbands, or the middle-age blue-collar worker who can have all his Steven King novels with him where ever he may be. These are the people that make up the sales, they're the middle-class. It doesn't matter to them if you can 'alt-tab' to an already running program. Camera or not, it's still a great device that is priced to sell to a large audience. I would have never though of buying a Kindle after seeing one, E-Ink doesn't offer enough for the price. Now there's a easy-to-use E-Reader/Netbook that would fit a lot of people, it's as simple as that.
Then again maybe I should just blog my opinion and put it somewhere where I can make revenue for ads like this site.
[J]
Stop mentioning Netbooks (Score:5, Insightful)
The cheap, gimped, version of the iPad is twice as expensive as a netbook. Every time they say netbook it reminds people that there's a perfectly adequate device that is in many ways more capable than their device for far less money. Everyone was initially amazed that Apple had produced a tablet computer for $500, their amazement waned when they realised Apple hadn't produced a computer.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Most consumers who buy netbooks to web browse and check email, not to use as a desktop replacement. The iPad is just more expensive for the same purpose to most people.
The iPhone/iPad interface is also about 1 to 2 billion times better than other existing interfaces for most people.
And there is why it will sell better.
You think Apple is trying to beat netbooks they way YOU look at them.
Apple could give a flying fuck about you and everyone else on slashdot.
They want the people who bought a netbook to browse
Witchcraft! (Score:5, Funny)
Magic definition (Score:3, Interesting)
- Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
My guess is that Apple is betting that they can advance tablet technology far enough to make it indistinguishable from magic. I don't think I'm alone when I say that I feel extremely skeptical of this claim. We'll see when it's released how "magic" it seems.
Personally, I think a magic tablet would be one that is holographic AND can do everything my computer can, plus everything I would like it to do.
A tall order, but that's what you get when you start making claims about magic.
Master Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
"This isn't the netbooks you are looking for. Move along."
The magic of typing (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess you should ask them again once they have used the ipad to type in twenty email messages or blog comments.
Magic = usability (Score:4, Insightful)
My grandmother won't get a netbook. She will get an iPad. She's not encroaching on your geek demographic.
For you logic types, iPad potential customer base > Netbook targeted customer base.
It will win because it does less.
Until you understand that concept, stay in your sheltered Netbook world. Oh, and update your virus definitions. And defrag your disk. Be sure to reboot today. Oh, update those drivers, too.
Usability is magic to most geeks. Black evil magic (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course most of the people here don't get it. To most geeks, who suffer a minor form of stockholm syndrome when it comes to using computers (if you don't suffer, you're not a true power user), a user interface is a handful of UI buttons which postpend the correct command-line switches to the underlying command-line application.
Actually using a usability designer is foreign to most developers. And creating an environment which my mother can grok without a Ph.D. in Computer Science? Magic. Black fsckin' ma
Re:Magic = usability (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that you think this is an acceptable user interface experience goes right to the root of the problem: every day you spend a few seconds managing your machine (by reviewing a message which tells you there is no action to take) rather than focusing on your work or your game. It's a small thing--but bad interface experiences is the accumulation of hundreds or thousands of poorly thought out small things.
And thinking through those hundreds or thousands of things of small things--apparently to the geek community at large, this is undecipherable magic.
Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:$100 discount? (Score:4, Funny)
A glorified ereader... without the epaper.
Re:$100 discount? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well Apple is calling it "MAGICAL."
I'd say glorified is an apt description.
Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)
apple only beat estimations versus itself. In reality, you can get significantly more functionality for less if you compare it to any other company that exists.
So yes, if you look through rose tinted glasses, the situation looks rosy. who would have known?
Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is reflected in the framing here as well. The ipad can beat netbooks? Well, for the money I can get something better than a netbook. But that comparison wont be as flattering so the bar is pushed lower.
Re:$100 discount? (Score:4, Interesting)
In reality, you can get significantly more functionality for less if you compare it to any other company that exists.
This one [alwaysinnovating.com] looks promising imho.
Re:$100 discount? (Score:4, Informative)
Apple already beat all estimations on what it'd cost. I think everyone on /. was estimating around $999 (as was everyone else on the net). All of the closest competitors are around that price point.
Why not just ask for it for free?
A camera would be nice.
Freescale has a similar device that they're targeting for the $199 price point. The Smartbook [freescale.com] comes with a camera and USB ports, and is a 7" touchscreen tablet.
Re:$100 discount? (Score:5, Insightful)
And where can I buy that? All I keep seeing is references to a "Design Reference."
Of course every company has a few "well this is what we 'could' do." Apple could have shown demos of the iPad a year ago.
I'm still waiting on my ARM laptop that is 'just around the corner'.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Where can I buy an iPad?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sorry Netbook wins still (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sorry Netbook wins still (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You missed the most important thing: a netbook will run any application I want it to run.
No, it will run any application designed for that operating system and hardware configuration. Good luck installing iPhoto on one.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
People do not care about the approval process until it bites them in the rear; for example, when Apple refuses to approve Google voice for the iPhone. Suddenly, people who never cared about the issue were up in arms.
Really? Outside of Slashdot and a few other techie sites, I never heard any other iPhone users even care online or people I know in real life.
Re:Sorry Netbook wins still (Score:5, Interesting)
You're making the same mistake as the rest of the industry, in supposing that the features you list actually matter to the majority of the consumer base.
1. If Apple can replicate it closely enough with an onscreen keyboard, then most people won't care. It won't suffice for many (which is why my phone has a physical keyboard) but it may for most.
2. Someone who would reasonably debate an iPad vs a netbook would likely not make this a consideration.
3. Same as 2.
4. Considering that nearly every netbook is the same, often with varying (and low) build quality, yes they can be had for cheap.
5. Apple's selling that slipcover thingy, I suspect they'll have huge sellthrough on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't also a pile of 3rd party covers available on release day too.
As I stated in a previous post it likely won't catch on among more technical audiences, but it has a fair chance (especially considering Apple puts thought into the UI unlike every netbook vendor) among the "I just want it to work" audience, which is far, far larger.
Re:Sorry Netbook wins still (Score:4, Insightful)
The iPad is not a computer. If you want a computer, buy a computer. You obviously want a computer, based on your list. Don't buy an iPad - it's not the product that's right for you. You'd do about as well buying a dishwasher - it's not the product you want. The iPad is, however, the product that a lot of people will want - people who aren't looking for a computer because the iPad is not a computer.
Re:Sorry Netbook wins still (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, look, someone who doesn't get it. The iPad is not a computer. If you want a computer, buy a computer. You obviously want a computer, based on your list. Don't buy an iPad - it's not the product that's right for you. You'd do about as well buying a dishwasher - it's not the product you want. The iPad is, however, the product that a lot of people will want - people who aren't looking for a computer because the iPad is not a computer.
Did you even read the summary? If the Ipad is not a competitor to netbooks, how is it going to beat them? If the Ipad is a competitor to netbooks, how is the OPs comment evidence of not getting it? Netbooks are computers, Tim Cook said that the Ipad was going to beat them. That means that Tim Cook apparently thinks that the Ipad is a computer.
I agree that the Ipad is not a computer. Therefore it is not a competitor to netbooks. It is, also, not cheap, which means once again it is not a competitor for netbooks. But the article we are discussing is talking about the Ipad competing with netbooks, so comments talking about things that netbooks have that the Ipad doesn't are valid.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe they could get Penn & Teller?
I can see it now ... ... ::crickets:: ... at least he does impressions ... but not of the iPad ...
Penn: Hi, I'm an iPad
Teller:
Penn: Don't mind him, he's a slate device. They don't have much to crow about.
Teller: (makes sour face)
Penn: He looks like some guy who bought a slate device
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple does good when they're modifying existing markets. They tend to fall flat when they're trying to create new ones (cf. Newton).
Re:reality distortion field (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPhone offered new things in a phone, things the average consumer didn't realize were possible. The iPad offers... what? I just don't see it. The only significant difference between the iPad and an iTouch is the screen size. Yes, that will give developers more that they can do, but only up to a certain point, especially if all apps are suposed to be compatible with the iPhone. It can't even be used as a proper web browsing machine given that amount of sites that are to a greater or lesser extent powered by flash.
Re:reality distortion field (Score:5, Insightful)
One year ago - Slashdotters complaining about Flash on websites.
Now - Slashdotters complaining that Apple doesn't support Flash on products they'll never buy.
All this confusion! Which side do I root for? Apple or Flash? It's enough to make my head explode!
On the one hand, I want to criticize Apple's products for lacking features, and because of all those snobby hipsters wearing turtle necks. Heh heh heh, so smug with their cappucinos and art galleries!
On the other hand, its lack of features will help destroy my arch nemesis (Flash) and move the web toward standard ways of delivering video and interactive experiences.
It's enough to tear my Asperger's/semi-autistic mind in half!
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:4, Insightful)
This is such crap.
I'm sure the iPad will find an audience and will sell by the truckload, but come on...are they really claiming that people won't pay for a netbook, but they will pay the same price for something with half the functionality and none of the openness, just because it's pretty?
"The netbook is not an experience people are going to continue wanting to have," Cook said, according to Macworld. "When they play with the iPad and experience the magic of using it... I have a hard time believing they're going to go for a netbook."
This is as close as we will ever get to Apple admitting their cult of personality is the primary (but not only) driver of their sales, not their products.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This is such crap.
I'm sure the iPad will find an audience and will sell by the truckload, but come on...are they really claiming that people won't pay for a netbook, but they will pay the same price for something with half the functionality and none of the openness, just because it's pretty?
You've never met a woman, have you...
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:4, Funny)
I'm engaged to one that is pretty, very functional, AND low in cost ;-)
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:4, Funny)
She isn't low cost because she is cheap, she is low cost because she makes more money than I do :p
Special Ed teachers make more than mail merge programmers in Maryland, apparently.
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:5, Insightful)
It's amazing how dense the majority of the Slashdot audience is.
For the wide majority of people, the functionality of an iPad and a netbook are exactly the same.
Can you browse the web?
Can you email?
Those two questions make up a huge percentage of most netbook users experience.
Factor in the app store and it is no contest.
Cult of Personality? Puhleaze. The "magic" he is talking about is the same "magic" that most users see when comparing a command line interface to a well designed GUI.
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:5, Funny)
Amazingly enough, this is why the average Slashdotter isn't a millionaire.
The iPad is a perfect kitchen computer. I could easily give it to my halfwit mother and she'd be entirely comfortable with it. There are more people in the world like her than there are people writing code.
Most computer users want their hardware and software to work like appliances and having an outstanding UI is a part of that. Let me give an example that is probably near and dear to the hearts of everyone here.
You're in bed, surfing porn. Now, you can do it with a notebook that requires a trackpad and keyboard to use, or you can use the iPad.
Your call.
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:5, Insightful)
iPad doesn't support flash, which means no redtube, youporn, etc.
My call is for the netbook. ;-)
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:5, Insightful)
What makes you think that once Youtube, Vimeo and other sites are comfy with HTML5 the pr0n industry won't follow?
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:5, Interesting)
Me and my business partner have been running a small coffee shop near a college for a couple of years now. I used to be a programmer, and he used to be a DBA, in our past lives. So we're familiar with technology.
Anyway, due to our location and business we get a lot of the so-called "hipster" crowd at our establishment. Don't get me wrong, they're great for business. There's little better than selling a specialty coffee at an 800% markup to these fools. But it's hilarious to hear them discuss Apple products.
When the iPad was first announced, you wouldn't believe the excitement these hipsters harbored. Some of them were literally crying when Jobs first showed it. My and my partner thought it was sort of fucked up how our customers were reacting to a pretty dismal product announcement. To these freaks, it's a religion.
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely, it just seems disingenuous.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Doesn't hatin' on your own customers kind of put you in a similar moral position as those business owners who catered to the gay community in California but then turned around and voted against their equality? 'We'll take your money, but secretly we think you're pathetic...'
Coincidentally, that sounds a lot like Apple themselves.
"You don't know how to use a computer and wouldn't be able to manage most basic tasks. Here, try this iPad. It's not a computer, it's magical."
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:4, Insightful)
OT but...
I don't see any logical incongruity with having a business that caters to the GLT community AND voting against equality. Under the law a business is a distinct entity, as is a private citizen. So it would be perfectly compatible to have a business catering to a demographic that you PERSONALLY do not approve of.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not? As long as he doesn't call them fools to their faces, the hipsters will never know, and they'll never care.
And Latte's really are marked up that much, I mean seriously, it's about 2 tablespoons of moderate to high grade coffee, which will run you about $0.26 at retail prices, and probably less than that given you'll be buying in bulk. Add in two cups of milk (maybe $0.50 again), a couple shots of syrup, and bam! $6 drink. It takes all of 30 seconds for a professional Barrista to make, at $10 per
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep. That's why Apple TV is such a success. My local stores can't keep 'em in stock.
Oh, wait.
Back on topic, why would anyone buy a netbook? I'd say 95% of netbook buyers fit into one of two categories. The first just wanted to buy the cheapest computer looking thing possible, the rest just want a cheap device to surf on.
The people who want the cheapest computer possible won't be satisfied with the iPad. This seems to be the /. crowd. "I can't install Linux". "But it won't play Borderlands." "I need Eclipse, Putty, and a keyboard at all times." The iPad doesn't cut it for these uses, it's not designed to be a normal computer. Of course, many people who buy netbooks just because they are so cheap get mad when the little 1 GHz Atom processor can't edit 1080p video or play complex games. Netbooks are not full laptops at $400 off, they're a different category.
If you just want a device to surf on, read your email, and maybe play a few games, the iPad seems to really fit the bill. I know of a couple of my relatives (not young) who this thing would be PERFECT for. No complicated filesystem. No confusing "where'd my program go" 30 window multitasking. The web works, email works, you can type up little things to email people either on screen or with the keyboard dock.
The thing really sounds like what most people want for a computer. If I didn't keep my laptop next to my couch for surfing, I'd buy one of these and it use it for that use. That alone would be enough to get me to buy it. Since it looks so different, Apple won't have the "this computer is way underpowered" problem, because I don't think anyone will see it as a MacBook Jr.
I find the iPad really interesting. It may take off like a rocket and change the industry (like the iPhone and iPod) or it could be and interesting thing that sits around but doesn't make a huge impact (like the Apple TV, although that wasn't nearly as groundbreaking, or MS's tablets, which survive but haven't really made a big difference for most people). Either way, this should be fun to watch.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The people that buy netbooks already have other computers, but want an extremely portable way to do all of the above, and do it using the same software they use on their 'main' compu
Re:That Explains The Updated SDK (Score:5, Informative)
The thing really sounds like what most people want for a computer.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. It comes close to being what most people want. However, most people want the full internet and lack of Flash on the iPad prevents that. Most people want to be able to install any program they might choose in order to do task XYZ and unfortunately, that's just not happening with the way the iPhone / iPod Touch / iPad are locked down. Look around the App Store sometime, most of it is utter crap (I have an iPhone and love it, but I can count the number of worthwhile apps on my fingers). Most people also want to be able to easily copy over movies, pictures, and other files - the iPad only allows that for pictures (with the SD reader attachment). The hardware of the iPad is great (well, most people would also like to have a webcam), but the software side of it being so locked down hamstrings it.
Re:It's more of a form factor thing (Score:4, Interesting)
A couple points:
First, touchscreen technology has come a long way in recent years (largely thanks to the iPhone showing what's possible in a consumer device), so provided the screen is just large enough to fit both hands on it I could see touch typing working out fine - my little HTC Hero picks up my keypresses amazingly well, and I have fat sausage fingers. Lack of actual keys will be a bit unfamiliar, perhaps, but consumers will get over any initial difficulty with the "coolness" factor.
Second, keeping the first point in mind, touchscreen PC's have been around for years and have always been a niche device precisely because of its form factor. They just aren't that useful except in certain circumstances. For example, they are easier to use while standing, but much more awkward while sitting at a table, and quite frankly a bit absurd while resting it in your lap. They are great for hand writing notes and drawing, but no matter how well they do an on-screen keyboard typing will never be as good on a tablet as on a laptop or even a netbook, for the simple fact that the screen will be in a much more awkward position.
That's not to say it won't do well, I'd just be very surprised if an iPad style touchscreen class of devices became anywhere near as popular as the netbook has been.
Now, if they were really good they'd ship it with a stand and a built-in projector keyboard. That wouldn't fix the lap-issue, but it would do a lot to make it a more versatile device like the netbooks are, and it would have massive coolness factor.