iPad Is a "Huge Step Backward" 1634
An anonymous reader writes "FSF's John Sullivan launches the Defective by Design campaign and petition to rain on Steve's parade, barely minutes out of the starting gate. 'This is a huge step backward in the history of computing,' said FSF's Holmes Wilson, 'If the first personal computers required permission from the manufacturer for each new program or new feature, the history of computing would be as dismally totalitarian as the milieu in Apple's famous Super Bowl ad.' The iPad has DRM writ large: you can only install what Apple says you may, and 'computing' goes consumer mainstream — no more twiddling, just sit back, spend your money, and watch the show — while we allow you to." What is clear is that the rise of the App Store removes control of the computer from the user. It makes me wonder what the next generation of OS X will look like.
I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:5, Insightful)
And I honestly don't mean this as a troll, but anyone who buys an Apple product *NOT* expecting it to be locked down tighter than Ann Coulter's vagina deserves to be disappointed. Buying an Apple and expecting freedom is like buying something from Sony and being shocked when it only supports some bullshit propriety storage or media format than only Sony makes. Apple is about doing what Steve tells you to do, or at least says is okay for you to do. If Apple could get away with locking down their Macbooks and other PC's so that you could only download their approved software, they probably would.
Apple keeps it simple: Here's what this does. It's elegant and does what it does very well. We don't want you screwing that up by messing around with it without our approval. If you want open and free, go somewhere else and take your chances.
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you for this. The only thing I love more than a new Apple product is Ann Coulter's VJJ. I think I'm in heaven.
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep yep. People (especially here) missing the point of Apple is pretty common. Skimmed the iPad article yesterday and had nothing but iPhone flashbacks.
"It's derivative."
"It's the same as (crappy, unpolished, user-hostile device that didn't sell) so no one is going to buy one."
"The hardware has been out for (absurd number of years) so Apple has utterly stopped innovating and will be going out of business next year."
"No one wants (feature that everyone wants)."
"It doesn't have (feature that only ubergeeks care about) so no one is going to buy one."
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:5, Interesting)
I was disappointed to see the iPad following the App Store model rather than full-on Mac OS X. On my MacBook Pro, or my wife's iMac, I feel like I get the best of both worlds: a nice consistant "just-works" gui with all the power/control I might need just a terminal window away.
FSF is very much on target with the locked-down AppStore model being the biggest threat to user freedom that we've ever seen, bigger than software patents. It's "Tivo-ization" writ large.
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:5, Insightful)
Buying an Apple and expecting freedom is like
OS X is not locked down. This is something that started with the iPhone.
If you want open and free, go somewhere else and take your chances.
I will. iPad may not be useful in itself, and it is certainly not the first, but all of Apple's marketing dollars may finally get this market segment to take off.
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait.
Ann Coulter's a WOMAN?!?!?
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:5, Informative)
MacOS is not locked down. I can install any software I want, and most open-source Unix programs compile and run without any modifications or hacking. The developer tools are available at no cost, and there are no restrictions on who can write and distribute apps to users. Also, you can run almost any modern OS on Apple hardware (I've installed XP, Solaris and several flavors of Linux on Macs).
None of the above is true of the Apple mobile line, which is why I stay away from it.
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again (Score:4, Funny)
Steve Jobs has gazed too long into the abyss (Score:5, Insightful)
The Apple of today is more 1984-ish than Microsoft ever was at the time of the aforementioned Superbowl ad.
Re:Steve Jobs has gazed too long into the abyss (Score:5, Informative)
The Don't Buy It (Score:4, Insightful)
iPhone.
They're both spectacular devices. The iPad will work within a similar ecology and thus has a good chance of being a pretty sweet device (time will tell, of course).
But.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Simple.
Re:The Don't Buy It (Score:5, Insightful)
I dont think the problem is as simplistic as you make it out to be. I have an iphone and I grudgingly accept its limitations because its a portable device that needs to be rock-solid and not randomly drain the battery on me, or whatever issues Apple has with multitasking.
Ive been thinking of buying a tablet for some time and have remained somewhat open-minded about this tablet, but you cant sell me the exact same iphone model with simply a larger device. You cant tell me I cant have flash for something that will primarily be a web tablet. You cant expect people to buy flash apps turned into iphone apps for every site. You cant say "Well, its really an iphone, but its not, so when you complain just remember its an iphone sans phone." Its supposed to be a tablet computer not a super ipod touch. Perhaps they should have marketed it as an ipod for your grandpa like those giant remote controls.
At least nobody is complaining about (Score:5, Funny)
it having only one mouse button.
FSF-approved version: +$99 (Score:4, Informative)
If you want what the FSF purports to want in the iPad and iPhone, its only $99/year more to be a certified developer, and that allows you to upload your own code onto up to a hundred selected devices. The process to become a developer is pretty painless (I did it for my own iPod touch, simply to have the potential to do some hacking down the road).
Similar abilities exist for companies to upload their own selection of apps to corporate devices, for $250/year.
Apple really isn't limiting the freedom to tinker for those who actually WANT to tinker, instead they realize that for most users , having an approved-code-only model is something the users actually wants: it means they have confidence in the system.
How many people will happily grab tons of random free apps off the app-store? Would they have the same attitude if they didn't have apple saying "we've at least done a cursory check of this to make sure these free random apps won't *BLEEP* you up the rear"
Re:FSF-approved version: +$99 (Score:5, Insightful)
So I have to buy the hardware, then I have to buy the right to use the hardware in a way that I want to? I call BS.
So many people are playing the "FSF is Looney" card. I fully support them in this effort to raise awareness.
Oh, come on. (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPad is not a general-purpose computing device. It cannot be compared to, nor can it show the direction of, the market for general-purpose computers. This is like saying that the segway is a major step backward in international travel because it can't fly.
If the next version of OSX were to have similar limitations, that would be worthy of this line of criticism. Of course, the criticism would then be unnecessary, as the Mac would drop out of the PC market promptly of its own accord.
Misses the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Misses the point (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Misses the point (Score:5, Insightful)
This is exactly what I don't get.
The iPod was a personal music and later a video and limited "game/app" device. The latter obviously more of a "can do" versus "is made for".
The iPhone was primarily a phone with PDA functionality and an iPod built in. Feels like either an iPod with phone functionality or an iPhone with iPod functionality. Not sure which, but it was replacing something you already carried in your pocket. Ok, I get the need.
The iPad.
Ok, it can't make calls.
It's an unportable iPod.
It's an eReader with a bright ass screen that will strain your eyes.
It can do limited word/spreadsheet processing.
It surfs the internet the way Apple says you should (no flash, IE: no Hulu, etc).
It plays limited games so it's not going to dominate the handheld market.
It only plays video from the apple store but the iPod et al already do that albeit on smaller screens.
I just don't get what niche this thing is supposed to fill. Is it a crippled laptop or a huge iPod?
And starting at $500 for the version without 3G surfing capability, which arguably is it's strongest trait, I don't see the "Well, I already had one of these in my pocket (cell phone) and this one does it better plus it does tons more (iPhone), so I must get one." argument.
It seems to be a solution to a problem, or a replacement for a product no one needed to invent.
Re:Misses the point (Score:5, Insightful)
It fits a perfect spot for me. But I think my priorities are a little bit different than yours. The 3G is irrelevant to me, because I see this as something that I'd just use around the house, where I've got WiFi. I wouldn't be carrying this around with me everywhere like I do my iPhone. I hardly ever even take my laptop out of the house.
I like to fart around on the internet while I sit on the couch in my living room and watch TV with my wife. I can currently do that on my 17" MacBook, which I love, but which often a pain in the ass to deal with while chilling on the couch. It's a little heavier than I like, every time I move or get up I need to carefully set it down, I generally need to find a big hardcover book or something to slip under it because the heat it produces is uncomfortable, and the battery has a couple years on it and can't make it through a full football game on a single charge (I'd rather not have to deal with moving the power cord).
I can also sit on the couch and browse the web on my iphone, which mostly solves the above problems, but with the downside of a tiny screen that requires lots and lots of constant zooming in and out and panning around and that gets aggravating. The other primary home use of my iphone is us lying in bed and watching stupid youtube videos before we fall asleep. Oh, and also I use while I'm camping out on the toilet taking care of business.
Anyways, my point is that I can come up with a bunch of things that I use my iphone for that I think the ipad could do better. And at least one use for my laptop that the ipad would do better. Now I'm not sure that it does those things so much better that it's worth $500, but if prices come down a little I could see it becoming more appealing to me.
Re:Misses the point (Score:5, Insightful)
But it's not meant for you or I, nor anyone else who reads Slashdot.
It's meant for my wife. My wife who runs Firefox, types "facebook" into Firefox's default Google homepage, clicks the first result and then spends the next three hours talking bollocks to her friends.
If the iPad runs Facebook, it's a winning.
They can't possibly believe this... (Score:5, Insightful)
We organized actions and protests targeting iTunes music DRM outside Apple stores, and under the pressure Steve Jobs dropped DRM on music.
Jobs was on record as opposing DRM on music long before the campaign started. It was the labels that had to be convinced to change, they were the ones responsible, not Apple. Taking credit for something you had no part in does nothing for your credibility and weakens your ability to work effectively in the future.
Re:They can't possibly believe this... (Score:4, Insightful)
I would think Amazon dropping DRM first and selling MP3s at a very competitive price had a lot more to do with dropping that than EFF and FSFs publicity campaigns. I don't mean to discredit their work against DRM and I'm sure it was an influence. I just credit Amazon and business competition a bit more. That perspective could be my bias though. My initial experience with iTuens was horrible. It wasn't until I tried Amazon's MP3 store that I started buying digital music again.
Amen (Score:5, Interesting)
"We think basically you watch television to turn your brain off, and you work on your computer when you want to turn your brain on." - Steve Jobs, Interview in Macworld magazine, February 2004
Steve used to preach that you could tell simply by looking at someones posture whether they were consuming or creating. The hacker bent over his keyboard is a boon to society while the couch potato leaning waayy back is a drain.
Meanwhile, he introduces the iPad while leaning back in an easy chair and telling us how easy it is to buy and consume web pages, music, movies, books from the iTunes store. And it's all DRM infested, right down to the software you may or may not be allowed to run on it.
Consume, consume, consume.
Re:Amen (Score:4, Insightful)
The hacker bent over his keyboard is a boon to society while the couch potato leaning waayy back is a drain.
With no-one to consume the hacker's output, there is no reason for it to exist, and thus there is no boon.
Never forget that supply and demand are linked; without one, the other is worthless.
Actually, it's a huge step forwards for many. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong. It may "revoke control" from the power user. But, the general public will view the iPad, like the iPod, as a simpler, more friendly way to get things done. It gives them control.
The general public doesn't care about our App Store hang ups, or cries of "DRM". Previously, the general public has struggled to install and play movies / apps / music at all, now they can tap a finger and it's there. Did these users prefer the pre-App Store world, where you had to have specialist knowledge to access this media? I doubt it. They couldn't access that world at all.
Here on Slashdot, we see the iPad bringing "DRM", and view it as a "huge step backwards". However, the general public sees the iPad as easy access to movies and apps, simple, straightforward accessible computing. The general public see it as a huge step forwards.
Our loss of control, as geeks, is most people's gain. Don't you think that complex media should be accessible to the general public, quickly and easily? We cry DRM at Apple, but do we really mean that we just don't want the general public in our clubhouse? What's wrong with the iPad and the "consumer mainstream" derided in the story? Not everyone wants to pop the bonnet and fiddle with the engine. In fact, hardly anyone does.
The story is seriously blinkered.
Re:Actually, it's a huge step forwards for many. (Score:5, Insightful)
Our loss of control, as geeks, is most people's gain. Don't you think that complex media should be accessible to the general public, quickly and easily?
We cry foul because it’s not an either-or decision.
Nah, it is just a replay (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft wanted money for its products. Google just wants to know a lot about you. Most people don't care about privacy. So Google is shaping up to be Microsoft+{Nielsen+Gallup}+{Madison Avenue} all rolled into one.
Unpopular position on Slashdot...I LIKE the iPad (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone in academia, the iPad would be perfect for much of what I do. I can take notes on it (including notes when I do therapy or psychological assessments), check my email, write papers and reports, read articles and books, listen to music, run all sorts of other apps (including terminal ones with ssh support), transfer and display brain images, and more. With the right adapter I could use the iPad to run Keynote presentations from.
I do some of these things on my iPod Touch - I use it all the time for my work - but the screen size limits some of what I can do. Could a netbook meet my needs? To some degree but the tablet form factor of the iPad is key for me. I could purchase a different tablet computer but again, their form factors are larger than the iPad. Plus, they usually cost more.
Besides, the iPad is competing with the Kindle to some degree and a Kindle with a 9.7" screen is only $10 cheaper than the iPad. I know the smaller Kindle is slightly more than 1/2 the price of the iPad but it does far less than 1/2 of what the iPad does (but the Kindle is very good at what it is designed to do, so I hear).
I'll probably purchase an iPad - maybe not this 1st rev. but possibly when it is updated in a year or two. I think Apple is going to sell a lot of them.
Re:Unpopular position on Slashdot...I LIKE the iPa (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm more interested in what you believe that you can do with the iPad, that you cannot do with any of the slates that were brought out at CES? From what I can tell, the only thing you get with the iPad is the app-store.
Re:Unpopular position on Slashdot...I LIKE the iPa (Score:4, Insightful)
"From what I can tell, the only thing you get with the iPad is the app-store."
And perfect synchronisation with my iPhone and Mac: contacts, events, documents all available without having to rely on web-apps (e.g. Google Docs) when I'm in the middle of nowhere. Oh, and an interface that's been vetted by an obsessive perfectionist.
An interface that doesn't get in the way of what I'm trying to do is a major selling point for me.
Wrong (Score:5, Informative)
You can install any application you want on an iPod Touch, iPhone and presumably the iPad as well. If you own or manage the device you have 2 options. You can either get the development environment and install applications directly to each device or you can set up a server (intended for but not restricted to enterprises) that manages all the devices in your control. You can install and remove any application, backup and restore data and setting, etc. What you cannot do without jail breaking the device is violate certain restrictions on using some OS APIs or distribute applications to devices you do not directly manage. You can distribute applications to others without jail broken phones who either have a developer set up or enterprise server. You can distribute pretty much anything to people with jail broken devices.
As far as I know, Apple doesn’t arrest, prosecute or sue people who jailbreak their devices. They just don’t support them. Fair enough. If you use unsupported APIs on any OS or application you’ll generally find that you won’t get vendor support or cooperation doing that. No one can stand behind a product that is not being used as it was intended. As a customer, your reasonable expectations about a product and its support are those expressed by the vendor. They don’t include anything that the vendor expressly does not support. They don’t include whatever you can dream up.
Consumers vs. Programmers (Score:5, Informative)
The kind of "freedom" that is the hallmark of Richard Stallman, GNU and EFF is very simple -if you have programming skills you are free. Otherwise, you are, well, unfit.
The basic problem is that the "open" computing platform has pretty much failed the consumer. No matter what security features are implemented in software, consumers will circumvent them to obtain what they believe they want: free software, porn, money, etc. The end result is a compromised computer that is no longer completely under the control of the user. And such computers can have a very negative impact on all users everywhere.
The average consumer has no way to utilise the sort of programming freedom that Stallman would like to see people have. They need a checked-out, validated, "App Store" where both useful and useless things can be downloaded and will never, ever compromise their computer. And if an application is found to be bad after it is released it can be "recalled". Period. If we had this today for Windows there would be no spam epidemic, no malware and little or no phishing. Instead what we have is an environment where the Internet is not safe for users with no special knowledge.
We are certainly going to see less and less "freedom" for users in the name of keeping out the bad stuff. Users, not programmers, do not need freedom but they absolutely need safe computing. We aren't going to teach that. With great freedom comes great responsibility and the spammers, thieves and scammers don't seem to be properly exercising responsibility.
Grab a snack...this may take a while. (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, it is based on iPhone OS 3.2. What the hell?!?!??! So you're telling me I'm going to spend at minimum $500 on a device that is just as locked down as an iPod Touch or iPhone? I'm going to have to hack the damn thing just so I can run an unapproved application? Great. Thanks for that, Apple.
Secondly, it is completely devoid of ANYTHING...no external ports (except when using dongles hooked up to the 30-pin connector...huzzah for accessories :/), no flash support, no multitasking (oh great, so I can't have AIM and Safari open at the same time? Epic Fail.)...it just seems to be an extremely restricted device considering the $500 entry price.
Third, what exactly are you getting for that price? Let's look at the fully loaded 64 gig/3G-enabled version. For roughly $800, you are buying a locked-down device with zero expansion options, zero USB ports or flash card readers, and no way to upgrade. For $800 you could put together a full-blown gaming computer or buy a REALLY nice laptop...hell, you could even buy a used tablet convertible and get the benefits of a tablet AND a laptop! But no, with Apple you get a locked down non-widescreen non-expandable device.
Fourth (and this isn't that big of a deal, but it is still a missed opportunity) Apple should have included a stylus with the system. Think about the people that use Wacom tablets, like the Penny Arcade guys or countless other digital graphic artists/designers. If Apple had included a stylus and well-designed software, this thing could be used as a portable Wacom tablet. Digital artists would have MURDERED each other for a chance to buy this thing had they included a stylus. Nope, that's a whole 'nother market Apple shunned with this thing.
Honestly, my biggest issue with it is the fact that it uses the iPhone operating system. By keeping it locked down like that, they have severely limited the appeal of this thing...they should have either ported over OSX (which would work GREAT on a tablet with minimal interface changes) or just built a new operating system from the ground up. But no, they decided to put on a velvet glove and slap the shit out of their customers...and they'll buy it! They are so focused on the fact that the hand has a velvet glove they are ignoring the fact that they are being slapped by it!
Basically, this COULD have been an amazing device...but regardless of what they did right, Apple made some unbelievably stupid decisions that puts it firmly in the "what's the point" category for me.
It is also worth mentioning that if this tablet had been announced with all the same features (both missing and included), but it had a Microsoft or Google logo instead of an Apple logo, people would be treating it like the plague. Fanboyism is a terrible disease.
DRM: The future of computing (Score:4, Insightful)
The iPad is the future - computing as we know it is coming to an end. We, the geeks, the hackers, the programmers - are the minority.
We all thought DRM was going to come-in through TPM modules in the BIOS. We thought AMD and Intel would begrudgingly add support under pressure of the RIAA. We thought Windows would add support and that Linux would be the last bastion of free computing left. But it isn't going to happen that way. It's coming from a totally different angle.
What will happen is that various specialized devices, that are 100% DRM encumbered from the start, will slowly replace the PC until it becomes an expensive specialized device for programmers.
First the iPhone comes out. Then the iPad. The all the iPhone and iPad clones - until these devices become ubiquitous. That covers internet, document editing, email, and limited gaming. That's maybe 50% of what the average Joe uses a computer for. Major gaming and social networking can be done on XBOX/Playstation/Wii - also 100% DRM devices. Then those devices will handle your movies, your TV watching, and your DVD/Blu-ray/DRM'd streaming video. Now we are at... 75%? Eventually, 90% of what computers do will be done more easily on some specialized DRM'd device. The idea of the infinitely configurable totally hackable PC will die away. Most consumers won't know the difference.
So how do we break this? Maybe come-up with some super-cool thing you can do on a computer that nobody thought of yet... something that can't be done on these devices? Maybe Android is the answer? I dunno. But I see the tidal wave coming...
Not a PC - More like TV + Cable (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPad is not a computer - it is an information appliance.
Sure it has computer components, but it is not meant to be a general-purpose computer. It is a sealed-box with tightly controlled access to tools and data. It is aimed at the same crowd that buys a TV and pays for a cable connection. They can only choose what is being offered to them.
This has been Job's dream since before the first Mac, when Jeff Raskin convinced him that computers were too hard for non-technical people to use. The smart thing about this design is (like a TV) it just works. Most people will accept the limitations, because too much freedom may not be a good thing. These are the same people who run as admin on a Windows PC, and click on any little thing that pops up. Their "freedom" turns their PC into brick in short order. So a limited device that just works is fine for them.
I'll wait for the more open clones to appear and do what I want. Apple is rightly aimed at the crowd that is willing to cash for the comfort of not thinking. The thinkers/doers will wait for something more open. This is not a product meant for us.
The future is now (Score:5, Insightful)
A couple of years ago everyone realized the computer was on it's way to becoming an appliance like your toaster or microwave, and were pretty optimistic about it. Well, the future is now... and people still complain about it. As others have stated, this isn't a general all-purpose computer, and it's not meant to be. Jobs was right when he said the netbook doesn't do anything better. It only does things smaller and, with every passing generation of the netbook, they're increasing the size of the device until it's indistinguishable from a laptop. The iPad is in practice what the original netbook was supposed to be - a device just for surfing the net, watching videos, reading books, playing games, and looking at photos. It's a useful appliance. All the Apple hate is pretty ridiculous, as with this they are progressing technology. Without the iPad, we'd see 10 more years of netbooks getting bigger, phones getting smaller, and Microsoft releasing Slate PCs as if they're new. If the iPad takes off, which it probably will, in 2 years time everybody will be scrambling to get a iPad like device out there, and enough of them will run existing OSes that you can install programs to and hack to your hearts content and you know what? They all won't compete with the iPad because people don't want freedom in computing... they want an appliance that they can rely on not to get viruses and have their kids come fix every 2 months.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankly, it doesn't matter if it happens to OS X. What matters is that it could become the standard going forward, and if we've learned anything from the iPhone and iPod it's that Apple has tremendous influence in driving the standards of consumer electronics. The reason for the app store has nothing to do with security and everything about Apple wringing every last penny out of developers by taking an arbitrary cut of their sales and providing only limited QC and indexing that could easily be provided by any other site or service. If people want a choice, they should GET a choice - use the app store, or don't. Instead, Apple's making the choice for you. And that's no choice at all.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Insightful)
If people want a choice, they should GET a choice - use the app store, or don't. Instead, Apple's making the choice for you.
But that's exactly the choice any iPhone or iPod Touch user has right now! They both perform their primary functions perfectly well without the owner ever using the App Store.
For that matter, owning either device is also a choice. Don't like the fact that you can only (officially) purchase and install apps that have been approved by Apple? Use a different phone/media player.
They're artificial limitations. That's the problem (Score:4, Insightful)
These artificial limitations that Apple puts in place are completely unnecessary, and unjustifiable.
Maybe if I use a car analogy, you'd understand it better. These days, virtually every consumer-grade vehicle has a gas tank that can be filled at virtually any gas station. If you want to buy from one station instead of another, you're perfectly free to do so. After all, there's no justifiable reason to put any limitations in place. It's your car, you should be able to fill it up however and wherever you want.
Now suppose Ford comes out with a new, trendy car that appeals to yuppies, hipsters and homosexuals. It comes in flamboyant colors, has no controls but a steering wheel and an accelerator, and costs a fuckload more money than any other comparable car on the market.
Ford wants to exploit these fools even more. So they create their own line of gas stations, that sell the same fuel as everywhere else, but at five times the cost. Then they change the hole in the gas tank to a star shape, so that you can't fill the car up anywhere but at their gas stations.
Ford doesn't have a legitimate reason to do that. It's outright exploitation, facilitated by artificially-introduced limitations.
Now, some of the smarter fools realize that they can create an adapter that lets them fill their cars up at any normal station. This is a perfectly legitimate thing to do, given that the constraints they're facing are completely artificial. But thanks to lobbying certain politicians, some car manufacturers have gotten legislation passed to make the use of such adapters illegal!
That is exactly what we see with Apple today. The limitations they put in place are artificial, and completely unnecessary.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Funny)
Worse than that, since all the media talks about is the latest trendy new Ford, it soon becomes like you're the oddball if you don't have their latest model. Everyone crowds around Ford's latest models and everyone else is all but ignored.
Children growing up only see Ford's car and think that is synonymous with a car and soon all there is is Ford and their overpriced overhyped standard.
Right time for another dried frog pill before the slashdot car analogy gets out of had
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Interesting)
These artificial limitations that Apple puts in place are completely unnecessary, and unjustifiable.
Maybe if I use a car analogy, you'd understand it better. These days, virtually every consumer-grade vehicle has a gas tank that can be filled at virtually any gas station. If you want to buy from one station instead of another, you're perfectly free to do so. After all, there's no justifiable reason to put any limitations in place. It's your car, you should be able to fill it up however and wherever you want.
I'll run with your car analogy.
On one hand, you could justify Apple as making a car that your mom can drive. All the futzy-bits are taken away. Put gas in it. Go for scheduled maintenance. Make sure your oil is changed. It just works without needing to know the details. A PC would be more like the old muscle cars grease monkeys would constantly be tinkering with, adjusting the points and timing and always under the hood with a wrench and pliers. Anything that takes away control from a grease monkey would be hateful to them. All the black box stuff on cars today, grease monkeys hate that. But it makes grandma's life easier.
The market would be fine if there was room for tweaking cars and no-tweak cars. Unfortunately the trend is to run with more computers, more specialized tools, and more barriers to entry. An independent mechanic has to spend $20k on diagnostic tools. There's no reason why a common laptop shouldn't be able to plug into the car via USB to read the codes but they charge big bucks because they can. It keeps the little guys out of the business. And there's all manner of specialized tools required to work on the cars rather than designing to do the most work with the least number of tools possible.
I applaud moves that simplify things for one segment of consumers while leaving options open for others. What I don't like is when a move signifies an industry trend that will eventually remove options.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah, but:
I'm the family mechanic. For some reason my family is full of lazy bastards who can't figure out how to pump gas into their car. It's a simple process, but they just can't be bothered to do it themselves. I've spent *years* trying to teach them, but they always have some excuse or another as to why they can't do it themselves.
Now they discover that the Ford gas stations are all full-serve, while every other gas station has gone self-serve. I have two options:
1. I tell my family members to buy the non-Ford cars. I give them instructions on how to pump gas. I write it on a little post-it note and stick it to their dashboard. But invariably, several times a week, they call me from the gas station and ask how to turn on the pump, or where the gas tank is, or something similar. And I know that I'll have to drive other there in my non-Ford vehicle and pump it for them.
or
2. I tell my family members to pay a bit more money and get the Ford. Sure, they can only buy gas from Ford itself but they're OK with that. They like having it done for them because they just aren't into cars like I am. Sure, they like driving around and getting from A to B - but they *really don't care* how they got there, or if their Ford is missing some of the features of my non-Ford. They're just happy to get to their destination without breaking down.
You know what else? If they go with option #2, then I get to enjoy my long non-Ford drives uninterrupted. I discover that they just don't call me for car advice as much. When they do call, it's because they actually want to talk to *me*, and not for support.
After a few years of this, I really begin to appreciate Ford for that they offer, and for freeing up my time.
Does that help you to understand it better?
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think many of these people are buying the "car", but you see, the way consumer feedback works, is that when people have a specific reason for not buying a product that they otherwise might want, they're going to make it very clear to the manufacturer and others just WHY they're not buying it so that hopefully their complaints, along with the complaints of others, will lead to a change.
This whole "just don't buy it" thing is getting ridiculous. What you're basically teaching the next generation to do is to accept whatever the corporate overlords give them, or go to a corner and shutup. Don't dare try to influence any of the actions of a corporation - you are a mere peon and should just accept that the only thing that is to flow from you is cash or nothing; not ideas, creativity, or ESPECIALLY complaints.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Informative)
This whole "just don't buy it" thing is getting ridiculous...Don't dare try to influence any of the actions of a corporation
I'm pretty sure that not buying a product is a strong and clear signal to a corporation that their product sucks. If the corporation is smart, it will listen to the signal and try something else.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm pretty sure that not buying a product is a strong and clear signal to a corporation that their product sucks. If the corporation is smart, it will listen to the signal and try something else.
Not buying the product means SOMETHING caused me to not lay down that money. It could have been priced too high. It might not have been fast enough. It might not have run Windows. It might not have had an integrated keyboard, webcam, or removable battery. The 3G connectivity might not have been compatible with my preferred carrier. It might have exercised too much control as to what software I can run.
If the corporation is smart, they want some level of feedback from the people who didn't buy it so that they know just where the hell they went wrong. Otherwise the next generation could very well be "iPad - now with a floppy drive!!!!!" and they're still left scratching their heads as to why certain people aren't on board.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Insightful)
It still works, just slower. There is always alternative product.
I'm not quite ready to dump my iPhone over this, but I won't be buying an iPad. I can accept these limitations on my mobile phone, since I mostly just use the stock set of apps anyway. If these sorts of limits start showing up in MacOSX, then I'll "upgrade" my MacBook Pro (and my 3 other Macs) to linux instead of the next great feline. That's not a huge ding to Apple, but once I'm off their OS, I'll stop buying their hardware. I'll stop suggesting it to my family and friends.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Insightful)
I like how you gloss over that whole middle ground where, if you see a need for a device or other product that the market hasn't filled, you go into business and make a shitload of money filling that need.
These are the dirty little secrets that none of the "open and free" advocates want to admit to:
1) The "freedom" you're spouting off about is only valuable to a consumer if they have the technical expertise to take advantage of it. 90+% of people do not, and of the maybe 10% who do, a vanishingly small number of them actually care to spend their days hacking devices that already work.
2) You're lazy. If there was truly a vast demand for a "free" version of this product, you'd go into business and make a mint for yourself producing it. But you know in your hearts that what you're demanding is for - at best - a small niche / hobbyist market, so you take the safe route and bitch about Apple instead.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Insightful)
Which devices? The iPod that made Apple a household name? Mac workstations which are used widely by creatives? The iPhone which from day 1 was derided as too closed / not functional enough by the geek cognoscenti here at Slashdot?
Scary thing is, I think you actually believe this. But you're wrong. Apple did not become a 50Bn company by catering to a couple thousand neckbeards in their parents' basements. You did not "put" Apple where it is, and they do not "owe" you anything. If you like their products, buy them. If you don't like their products, don't buy them. If you think they've overlooked a segment of the market and you have a killer idea, go into business and compete with them.
"our" devices? ignoring "everything we say"? If you don't like it, GO MAKE YOUR OWN. If there's as much demand as you seem to think, you should be wildly successful.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Insightful)
And I'm not saying I like the closed system. I'm an app dev and I would much prefer to skip the annoying approval process, but the bottom line is that consumers don't care or they really wouldn't have bought it.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, tell the manufacture.
Slashdot is not the manufacture of the car or the iPad, so bitching here isn't doing anything other than trolling.
My father used to sit on the couch and whine, bitch and moan about politicians, but never once did he leave the house to tell anyone outside of it how he felt.
His bitching was useless and annoying to those around him, just like the posts to this effect here.
With a slight difference, if no one buys a product, it won't stick around and other ideas will be needed to stay in business.
Considering the way iPhone/iPod sales go ... I'd say that the complaints here are from such a tiny group that no one gives a flying fuck.
The irony is that this isn't even new to the iPhone. It wasn't the first iPod with apps you know?
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Interesting)
You think Apple doesn't have people analysing places like Slashdot?
It's 2010. The producers of Lost study Lost fan forums, and make agile changes to the show in according to what they find.
If the makers of a TV programme do that, surely savvy makers of gadgets study comments on prominent tech blogs.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:5, Insightful)
The issue is that if a sufficient number of people do buy the "closed" cars, "open" cars become commercially unviable.
I think this has actually happened to an extent. Cars come with sealed engines such that only authorised mechanics can work with them. That gives the car manufacturer an effective monopoly on parts and labour -- via franchises.
Anticipated profits from this channel allow these manufacturers to push the retail price of the car down. Now a user-servicable car is more expensive than a non-user-servicable car. Fewer people buy the more expensive car. A positive feedback loop is established.
Now the manufacturers are free to push up the cost of parts and of service franchises, which is bad for the consumer. Due to the closed nature of the cars, you can't get any old grease monkey to fix your car for cheap.
We're not there yet for all components of a car, but I think it's getting pretty close for some core components.
The analogy to computers is pretty easy to make.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Informative)
The "sealed engine" is the computer in the system. If a manufacturer decides to encrypt that, or use specialized error codes, and only give the key to "authorized dealers," all of a sudden any non-authorized mechanic is in for a world of additional difficulty. As for doing it at home? Good luck getting the interface at all. It'll be a damned sight more expensive yet.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Informative)
Have you tried adjusting the timing on anything newer than 1998?
Didn't think so. There's your answer ITG: where once anyone could preform routine maintenance on their automobile if they so chose they no longer have that choice thanks to a host of computer-controlled systems with proprietary formats and tools required to access them.
GP is 100% correct.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Informative)
My EU car - a Renault brand - has a plastic cover over the engine with seals. I could rip the seals and look inside, but my 4-year warranty will be gone.
So i won't.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Insightful)
If the "artificial limitations" are "completely unnecessary, and unjustifiable", then consumers won't buy it. In your car analogy, people can still buy Chevys and Hondas.
The problem becomes when Chevrolet and Honda see that Ford is making more money in a month than they make in a year and decide the same business model is good for them, too.
Next, they'll get even more lawmakers to agree with them that just because all the big car companies are doing the same thing and have a single industry lobbying organization, it's not collusion or price fixing. As a matter of fact, it'd be just like the music recording industry, and we all know they aren't doing anything to hurt consumers.
Re:They're artificial limitations. That's the prob (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah exactly, there's a lot of evidence of this already happening. Why just the other day Google released their version of the iPhone and they've totally locked it down just like Apple...err...what's that? It's not locked down? You can install whatever you want on it? Oh...
Not a Computer... an Appliance (Score:5, Insightful)
An appliance such as a coffee maker isn't designed to be hacked into. It's designed to be functional and simple for the average consumer to use. This is what the iPad is.
OS X will continue for its market base, the user who needs the complexity of a full operating system and the iPad is perfect for your mom or grandmother to finally get on the internet, email, download books, etc. without needing a part-time geek to hand hold them through the process each time.
(as an aside to that, my 90 year old grandmother bought a Kindle and really likes it, but needs help getting through the menu system anytime she wants to buy the next book.)
Not everyone wants to fiddle with every little setting in an OS. I would say a majority just want to pick up the device and the device works. This is the primary reason the iPhone has done so well and is likely why the iPad will do really well.
Coffee makers and inkjet printers (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, even coffee makers today have coffee pad systems. Instead of being able to use any coffee powder or roasted beans i like, i have to buy the correct format from the manufacturer. The whole world is becoming a fucking ink jet printer!!!!
Contrast now and then (Score:5, Interesting)
But you can't help but notice how the things went horribly wrong :
Apple in 1984 :
"Hey, don't be a sheeple like everybody else ! Don't let an evil corporation decide what you should do ! Buy our Macintosches and get a product that will let you think in any innovative way you want !"
Apple, 25 years later :
"Hey, wan't to be as cool and as hip as all the other cool guys ? Go buy our iTrendy iProducts ! Just don't do anything silly with them. We decide what goes on an iPhone/iPod/iPad, because we know what's good for you. We select which are the best application, we select which feature another studio can use if they want to innovate. (WARNING: attempt to circumvent this limitation to do what you want the device in creative new ways may infringe the terms on your contract/make your plan cancelled/violate the DMCA/voids the Warranty/exposes you to viruses)"
If you told 1984-era Steve Jobs how the iProducts work, he would probably never believe you that he'll be leading a company doing that.
I agree that the iP*s are appliances. It's just weird whan a company which spent so much effort creating a public image which was all about freedom (from corporation) has turned into a corporation whose most popular product is precisely controlled in terms of what can go on it. And is actively doing everything possible to make this situation remain so.
Meanwhile other appliances have been very successful without the need to restricting users' freedom. Both old devices (such as those based on PalmOS and Windows CE) and modern devices (like the latest running WebOs) have been made in a way where the user can get administrative right on any model out-of-the-box (not only special "developer" models) and use them to do what pleases them without arbitrary restriction by the manufacturer (old PalmOS where single-task OSes. Nonetheless, methods existed to have some background tasks anyway, and Palm never did anything to prevent this. Unlike with the iP*s). This never did prevent these devices to be successful.
No. (Score:4, Informative)
Or custom GPS solutions that only work with vendor-supplied DVD's, but are convenient for the customer to obtain and use?
No, because in these cars, you're still free to buy and use a Tomtom or a Parrot if you don't like the manufacturer's.
With iPhone/iPod/iPad you can *only* go to the AppStore. Jail-breaking is not considered a legitimate end-user procedure. And Apple-approved applications are also technically limited (no multi-tasking). (On the ground that most users don't need it. Completely ignoring users which want to have a background web-radio music player or alerts for IM)
Back in you GPS example, it's like if the DCMA made it illegal to own a GPS-holder to use whatever brand GPS device you want. Instead you are forced to use only the GPS device from your car manufacturer which is special purpose-built to fit your Dashboard. And for some stupid reason it can only show cities whose name doesn't start with a Z. (On the ground that most users are in the USA where this letter is rare. Completely ignoring users living in Eastern Europe, for example).
As opposed to the Palm Pre, for example, which although has an App Market, let you also use apps ("cards") from other sources. Gaining root access is a normal operation which is enabled on all device (not only "special developer" ones) letting advanced users make weird uses of their phones if they want. And multi-tasking is not only normal, but the "Plus" generation of Palm phones even comes with extra memory to enable more simultaneous "cards".
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is when the consumer doesn't have full information.
For instance, I bought an iPod touch primarily as a book reader (I wanted one that could also play music). I did a lot of research, so I thought I knew what I was getting into. To my surprise, one of the most important functions I wanted in a book reader was not there -- I could not import my own documents. So it's still useful, but it's not exactly what I want.
That's the feature on the iPad I want to hear about, and nobody's talking about it. If it can't load and read my own documents, or docs I download from the web, then it's not useful to me. No 'official' advertising will answer that question yay or nay. I'm going to have to hope that some blogger answers it for me, or I'm going to have to get a chance to try the thing out for myself.
Choice is great if the consumers are properly informed. Without an informed consumer, choice can be manipulated to the consumer's detriment.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, you can load your own documents on the iPad. Unlike an iPod / iPhone, the iPad has a "shared folder" that is accessible to all applications, and that you can load your own files into via USB:
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/the_ipad_an_inside-the-park_home_run/
(near the bottom)
"I have begun to look over what's new in iPhone OS 3.2 SDK. It offers some positive signs. In particular, applications will be able to "share" documents they create using a new file-sharing support feature. All documents to be shared are placed in a Shared Directory, which will mount on the desktop when the device is connected to a computer. This works independently of iTunes syncing."
I have an iPhone dev account and have confirmed this in the SDK myself. So yes, you can load your own documents onto it.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
If people want a choice, they should GET a choice - use the app store, or don't. Instead, Apple's making the choice for you.
Are you serious? Is Steve Jobs now running the government??? You do not need to buy an Apple product. I hear Google has some stuff going on in this area....
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Informative)
they have, jailbreak your phone install what apps you want from wher you want.
whoosh
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Not unlike Ubuntu- you have the option of the super clean Apps installer, but there's nothing stopping the power user from doing more.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Insightful)
Just keep in mind that with that model, there are a slew of different problems that come along with it. Namely, malicious code being entered into the App Market. About a month ago, there was a story where Google had to kick a bunch of stuff off the Market because they were basically phishing apps.
I'm not gonna pretend to know which side of the spectrum is more correct, and it probably isn't the same for everybody. But basically, you have Apple on one end, vetting all of the App Store submissions, and being the ones to choose what to sell in their store. On the other end, you have Google, basically allowing anyone who wants to the ability to place something in the store, and not vetting beforehand. One gives you more choice as to what to put on the phone, while the other one gives you more security and peace of mind, while still giving you access to a very large catalog.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Interesting)
if we've learned anything from the iPhone and iPod it's that Apple has tremendous influence in driving the standards of consumer electronics
have they driven standards? they produce a bunch of proprietary devices that lock you into using another one of apple's proprietary devices whenever they can. itunes is a completely closed ecosystem. the app store is locked down. their media devices don't use open formats.
firewire?
what did i miss?
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Informative)
mDNS for local networks (Apple's implementation of zeroconf, which is open source and available for all major platforms)
USB on the iMac - it was the first, and soon became ubiquitous when it became just how useful a standard low data rate port could be.
standardising the dock connector on the iPod and forward: even if it is proprietary, it is standard and unchanging so third party vendors can make peripherals that use the socket, and there is a published method on how to use the various features of it (Tom Tom's dock with GPS and other gubbins, for example). Yes, you have to pay royalties to build something that uses the 30 pin connector, at least at the moment. You had to for firewire too, but that cost is now gone.
Firewire, yes, which you mentioned. The DV connection on pretty much every home camcorder onwards (at least the MiniDV revolution onwards).
mp3 was not Apple's doing - it was already the default format due to the way computer-based personal music arose, so not supporting it would have been a deathblow for the iPod before it had even begun. The iTMS (after a shaky start with m4p at the behest of the music industry, and ditched as soon as possible) now sells standard AAC files, playable by anything that supports AAC playback.
Incidentally I'm not sure what devices they sell that lock you into using other proprietary (Apple) products - the iPod/iPhone require iTunes, yes, but it is free and you don't need a Mac - you can use the Windows version. You are not forced to use the app store or the iTunes Music Store - the phone plays mp3 and AAC files from other sources. If you want apps, you are stuck (without jailbreak) bun in that case, the iPhone is not for you: buy a Nexus One.
I suppose the new Cinema display (the 24" one) that uses a MiniDisplay port requires a Mac with the same port to use, but there are third party adaptors that will allow you to use it with a DVI port. The 24" CD is really an accessory to the MacBook Pro though - if you wanted a 24" display and you didn't have a MacBook you would really not be choosing wisely.
The iMac I am using right now has a copy of XP on it for some old Windows only games, and I'm actually using a Microsoft mouse, a generic firewire external HD (with Time Machine - no need for a Time Capsule from the Apple store), two generic USB memory sticks, a generic USB hub. My 15" Powerbook dual boots Ubuntu and Leopard. I also exchanged the internal SATA hard drive in my iMac for a bigger one that I bought from an equivalent of newegg. The internal drive on the PB is big enough, but I have done several swaps of hard drives and optical drives in other Mac laptops and just use generic parts. The only properly proprietary internal part is the logic board - much the same as a PC laptop. It would be nice to upgrade the GPU in the iMac, but it is one of the compromises I made when selecting the very convenient form factor.
I don't feel especially "locked" in to anything, but perhaps I just don't tend to clash with situations where I feel that I am being hampered rather than just going on as normal. If you find that you do, then Apple probably isn't for you. It's not different to buying a hammer to change a plug. I know to some geeks, when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail, but right too for the job and all that.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason for the app store has nothing to do with security and everything about Apple wringing every last penny out of developers by taking an arbitrary cut of their sales and providing only limited QC and indexing that could easily be provided by any other site or service.
And the reason that it's working is because it's fucking easy. While you GNU, FSF, & Linux Luddites are arguing over the technicalities between GPL v2 and v3 and why BSD license sucks. Or KDE vs GNOME or how you can configure every damn single thing on either, Apple has released an OS that has 0 configuration, you literally get 0 options other than what page your apps appear on, and it has become more popular than both.
"Year of the Linux Desktop" will happen when Grandma can get a computer that 'just works'. My grandmother figured out my aunts iPhone no problem. She did never figure out OS X or Linux or Windows. Hell I can't even stand the amount of configuration options in the X window managers. Do I want this font or this font, this size or that. O, I can drag the 'start' menu over here, or over there. I'll spend 5 days figuring it out and never be convinced that it's "right".
Nothing prevented Linux developers from releasing a phone, other than internal bickering and unresolved issues (How's that openmoko coming?).
As soon as you introduce choice, all hell breaks loose. So say I can add any repository for apps I want. When I get my mom the 22" iPad so she can just run programs and not have to deal with an "OS" how do I tell her which repository to use? Or maybe she should install the FSF one too, that way she can use GNU/FSF/HURD/Gnome on her new device.... at which point she tries it and it completely fucks up the install. Then what? I get called.
Jailbreaking is easy enough for a 'technical' user. If I want the iPad and I want to install what ever I want, I'll just jail break it (6 months max) and do that. I don't even want the option available to my mom or 90% of users. Because then they'll find it and use it. Then we'll have Bonzai Buddy for the iPad because some friend sent them a great link to this great repository of smiley faces.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
There's another way to look at it:
If Apple gets away with it, what can their competitors offer to get you to buy their version instead of Apple's?
Apple can offer a heavily DRMed and locked down experience because they serve it up with a reputation for a highly polished overall user experience right out of the box.
Can the competitor provide higher quality? Maybe...but they still need to get the consumer to believe that. More innovation? We wouldn't be having this conversation about Apple if it was their competitor leading the way. Lower prices? Yes, definitely, Apple's products tend to be overpriced and are quickly undercut by the competition, but the competition's price cuts hacks directly at their profit margin.
How about a more open experience? It's a cheap way to one-up Apple, and it saves money on the overhead of running everything through an approval process. Certainly less damage to their bottom-line than engaging in a price war.
Obviously not all companies will see it the same way, but there is incentive for at least some of them to give it a shot. Particularly if all of them drive at the locked-down approach of Apple, then there will be an underserved niche market of geeks who want to install their own stuff on it. Then some company will try to sell to that market.
One Users Evaluation of the SmartPhone Ecosystem (Score:5, Informative)
Apple Pros:
navigating launcher is fast, quick, easy to use. One button. Consistent behavior in metaphors (delete, back, forward).
Bright, large screen.
Arguably accurate/responsive touch screen.
Incredible on-screen keyboard and editor.
Videos, integration with iTunes.
Most applications (productivity) seem well thought out and designed.
Software ecosystem.
Apple Cons:
Harder for me to write software for (as a non-dev, I don't care, or can move to Webapps).
Large phone.
Tied to AT&T.
Not expandable (sd card)
Pre Pros:
Small, comfortable size.
Multitasking
Wifi Hotspot
Synergy
Pre Cons:
$10/m for access to VZ Navigator GPS
$30/m for Wifi hotspot. For $30 more I can get a separate MiFi, and be able to browse and talk at the same time.
Launcher is SLOOOOOW.
Keyboard editing is more difficult - it's harder to arbitrarily edit text in a paragraph.
Browser is nowhere near the ease of use of the Touch.
Screen is smaller.
Screen digitizer is not very accurate.
Synergy: synergy is about contact and communication integration. It should allow me to email a facebook user from the contact app. As it is, it just shows me contact data that exists in each source, it doesn't utilize native communication tools. It also only supports LinkedIn and Facebook. After 6 months (since the Sprint release) I'd have expected that they'd have added Facebook or Twitter.
Tied to Verizon.
Software ecosystem is an unknown at this time. It's growing, but I'm not at all sure about marketshare and uptake.
Not expandable (sd card)
Droid Pros:
Software ecosystem
Powerful interfaces to communications (SMS/Email)
Decent size for a phone
Bright display
Droid cons:
midsize display
Launcher is slow - navigating is noticably slower than the Touch.
Digitizer is less accurate.
Expandable with memory cards.
Interface is not standardized (this is arguably not a con).
My big fingers can't use the top row of the slider keyboard comfortably.
<rant>Why can't we have one communications standard (GMS/CDMA) in this country?</rant>
I'm pretty sure my Pre+ is going back to the store. It's cute, it's nice, but it's not my hoped-for Treo replacement. The Touch with it's onscreen keyboard is arguably better as a PDA than the Pre+ is with it's REAL keyboard. And I never thought I'd say that - I was vehemently against getting the iPhone or the Blackberry Storm for just this reason - I thought I couldn't live without a physical keyboard (I've had Treo's since the 600, and a Kyocera 6035 before that, and an original Pilot and a Visor before that). So before I ditch Verizon and go to the iPhone, I'm going to give the Blackberry Storm 2 a try.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
You wont to know why EVERY major business uses PCs?
Because they went with the conventional choice decades ago, and now migrating would be a huge expense.
Because whoever made the choice knows Windows and nothing else.
(Note: This is not an argument for using Macs or iPads instead)
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
The FSF isn't saying the iPad should be banned, it's just raising awareness about the need for freedom in software.
Frankly with the amount of bullshit publicity this (somewhat underwhelming) device has had so far, I'm happy for a worthwhile organisation like the FSF to hijack a little for it's cause.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
The "just don't buy it retort" doesn't hold any water in my eyes. It's not even only misinformed consumers' benefit that's at stake. 10 years from now, do you want your Free OS being an island of its own that no one tries to be compatible with, because closed platforms represent 99% of the market?
The other side has their advertising, and we have the FSF. Now all we need is proper awareness of real alternatives.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
"[The iPad is] really a toy"
A toy being hailed by the press as the future of computing. Sorry, dude, but the FSF hit the nail on the head here. If this toy is the future of computing, then computing is in for a bleak future.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, locked down consumer level devices WILL be the future for mass market things like the iPhone and iPad. Mass market consumers haven't the time, energy, desire or wit to maintain an general purpose Internet connected device safely and securely (see Microsoft Windows). No, Steve isn't catering to you or me or anyone that wants a 'tablet computer' he is pitching this device to people that don't care that Apple is dropping the word computer from their moniker.
There are lots of other companies out there that will try to sell you something similar but perhaps in a different package, a more open package, one that can be twiddled with endlessly. That's the future. One that is much more complicated than the magic pixie dust and unicorn rainbow world of Apple.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Interesting)
And there's no chance whatsoever that this will ever happen to Mac OS X, so don't lose sleep over it.
Really? I can totally see Apple releasing a new mac mini with this OS because *it just works*. Then putting a premium on future machines with the OSX variant. I think the saddest part is that for a large portion of the population, that's probably best. Would we have such large bot nets if every Joe could only get their stuff from one place? Doesn't even Ubuntu try to mimic this in some respects with its downloader?
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't even Ubuntu try to mimic this in some respects with its downloader?
Do you honestly believe that having a repository where people can easily get most of the stuff they want is the same thing as having a single app store that is the only place your computer will let you get stuff from? I don't think anybody would be complaining if Apple had a nice, tidy app store, but still let people run arbitrary code on their stuff.
And if every car was speed limited (Score:5, Insightful)
You would have far less problems with speeding if all cars just work and had a speed limiter installed that just worked.
There would be less theft if every car was bio-keyed to the person and every person tracked...
Do I need to go on?
Why are the privacy nutcases always so ready to imagine the most terrible wrongs about potential abuse of power by the government, but think it is super okay to give all control to a corporation?
Apple has severe intrest in controlling how people consume their media and their hardware is reflecting this, making it harder and harder to install alternative methods. You can of course believe they won't abuse this, you can but you would be a silly person.
I really don't know if your kind can ever learn, there have been enough example shown that when companies get to comfortable with themselves, it is bad for their customers. Car companies that only produce the cars they want to make, not the ones they want, tell me, how is detroit doing? MS stopping development on IE because it had won, so why continue to invest? Apple buying up competing software and then stopping development.
Google is doing it as well, support h264, so that no competing video service can be started easily since they can't afford the millions in licensing costs.
It is all very subtle and long term, but you only got to be old enough to remember the old unixes to know how right the FSF is.
And the fact that you claim Ubuntu does the same... sudo -i [your own password] is all you need to do to have total control. One command and you can change everything and access everything...
If you want to see why the FSF is right, install IE6 as your main and only browser. If you last for less then a day, donate some money to the FSF.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
"Doesn't even Ubuntu try to mimic this in some respects with its downloader?"
Don't even try to bring Ubuntu into discussion, there's a clear difference between making things easy to install and locking the OS, Ubuntu can run probably any piece of software that works in any other Linux distribution, even more, you can write your own software, compile it and run it, can you do that with iPad?
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Interesting)
If users like the idea of being locked into the store, fine. RMS, the EFF, Slashdot, "whine" by showing people the bars they are getting into. I must say that I never heard Apple bragging that they locked in users or that it was hard to get the kind of apps you like for their devices. For that I thank those "whiners".
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
I think he's saying it's a step backwards because they are taking, what is essentially a tablet computer, and 100% locking it down to only do what Apple explicitly allows.
This thing isn't a phone and it's not an mp3 player, it is a tablet computer that is directly trying to compete with netbooks and even laptops. But again, they are entirely locking down the platform and the software to such a degree that any freedom is entirely lost. You can fully understand a phone being locked down to phone applications delivered by the manufacturer and the same with mp3 players. The software is written for the device and that's all there really is to say about it.
The iPad on the other hand, again, is a computer meant to be used like a laptop with its own internet connection. Locking it down so harshly is a step backwards in the usability of the device.
That's my impression, anyways.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
It partly depends on what the iPad is. I don't really think that it's a general purpose computer--though I understand why some people might think that. It's more of a Web/Entertainment appliance--like a Tivo with a browser. You don't expect to run arbitrary code on your DVR (or at least most people don't) and I don't think most people expect to do that with their phone (again, at least most people). As long as people are expecting to get an "appliance" rather than a PC, this could be successful.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Depending on perspective, the iPad is either a great internet appliance, or a piss-poor portable PC. Apple's challenge will be to control that perspective - seeing how good they've been at that in the past, I'm going to say this product will be a success.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Insightful)
BTW Jobs originally didn't want any apps for the iphone, the app store was a middle ground, allowing 3rd parties to have an effect on the product whilst retaining total control.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a similar opinion from a source that's less Free Software oriented [createdigitalmusic.com].
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around them.
Every time Apple decides to close something off - by insisting on approving apps, by not giving you a [general purpose] USB port, etc., and people go for it anyway, because it's slick and nice to use, we get used to a little bit less openness.
People don't miss openness until it's too late. Then it's suddenly "What do you *mean* I can only use printers that are Apple certified?". "I've bought all these e-books, and now the only place I can read them is on Apple hardware?" etc.
I know, I know: slippery slope fallacy. But it's a slope we *will* slide down, without a critical mass of openness-aware customers insisting on some openness in their tools.
What's not open about it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Now wait a minute. Before all the FOSS types get into a slathering fury (oops, too late), consider:
- The SDK is free. Free! Download it and start developing apps already.
- Distribution is free. Free! There's nothing stopping you from signing up and giving away your self-righteous apps for no cost; include the source code or a link thereto if you like. And if you do want to make a buck (er, $0.99) off each copy of your app, that costs you a measly $99/year (surely your app is good enough to get a hundred people to buy it, right?).
- The much-defamed App Store censors mostly just take a cursory glance at each submission to make sure the app is well-behaved (not malicious or destructively stupid) and socially acceptable to all audiences (how much FOSS pr*n are you planning to develop, eh?). Is it really too much to ask that someone double-check your work for brokenness before spreading it to the unwashed masses? Have you _seen_ what got thru that process unabated?
OK, so it isn't totally completely unquestionably end-to-end FOSS. I'll understand if RMS doesn't approve, but that's his shtick, not ours.
- App Store is the only distribution process. Well, except that you could publish your source code and let anyone with the SDK compile & run it sans censors.
- DRM everywhere. Well, not really - seems you can put whatever content you want on it via iTunes (music is not DRMed anymore, remember? and I shouldn't have to say anything about videos, right?) and the SDK. I expect the iBook stuff will prove the same: minimal-if-any DRM, easily circumvented.
And what does the RMS-approved FOSS get you? ..." isn't preferable to "it just works" for most users, including most of us geeks who don't want to have to screw around with your app which wasn't even given a cursory independent stamp of "not blatantly broken".
- Android is showing diminishing quality of apps with increasing conflict. Windows has been there forever.
- "Oh, you just need to
You want choice, you have choice: get a Droid. A lot of us appreciate a little formalized cooperation, at trivial cost, to ensure stupid code doesn't run rampant.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:4, Interesting)
if freedom can only be preserved by removing choice
George Orwell just called and he wants NewSpeak back. Did you honestly think about that as you were typing it?
This is why I just can't take free software advocates seriously. Yes I use (and support) some free software, but apparently RMS and the FSF have bought into the whole "we had to destroy the village to save it" mentality.
Re:Dear FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
I take it that you believe that the Ipad is just a large Ipod with additional functionality?
It is. Same OS, same type of processor (ARM), same application development environment, same application set, same store restrictions. How is this not a bigger iPod Touch?
Re:A step nowhere is more like it. (Score:5, Insightful)
If the iPad fails, it will still drive the rest of the industry to up their game in the tablet space. The original iPhone wasn't all that great, but look at what we have now. You might still not like the iPhone, but would Android and WebOS be where they are now without it?
Re:This was bound to happen... (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I don't see the benefit of such a device - - i must not be the target demographic.
Bingo--very few of us here on Slashdot are the in the target demographic for this device. We all want something we can play with, hack, turn into a toaster or whatever we choose to do with it. The thing we tend to lose sight of is this: the vast majority of computer users out there don't give a fuck about that! They want something that they can pick up and use without worrying about the nuts and bolts behind it and that's what Apple offers. The iPad is no more a general purpose computer than an iPod is; in fact, like an iPod, it's an appliance for viewing various sorts of media in a easy-to-use way and that's all a lot of people want. In fact, if I hadn't already given my wife my old MacBook, it would be the perfect device for her since all she does with her laptop is surf the Web, send an occasional e-mail and view stuff on YouTube--all things the iPad will no doubt excel at doing.
Apple isn't going to sell many iPads to people like us but I'll bet they'll sell a lot of them to people like my wife.
Re:Should we give (l)users control? (Score:5, Insightful)
Attacking Apple's products is one thing. Why not create your own open source tablet to compete, and let the marketplace decide?
Because that's not the purpose of the FSF. If the only way to warn the public about a Potential Harmful Thing is to create your own multinational corporation with the engineering power to create open competition, that's somewhat going to limit the informed debate...
Watchdog organisation: "Look, this make of washing machine regularly blows up and kills anyone nearby"
Company's apologist: "People are buying it, so obviously the market is deciding! Create your own non-explosive type and sell it"
Sometimes people don't know all the consequences of the purchase they make, that's what the FSF are trying to do. Guess what, sometimes the market gets it wrong...
Separately from the locked-down issue, do you *honestly* think that people are not going to be a bit surprised at some of the limitations of the device? No Flash therefore no Vimeo, Hulu and lots of websites will be hamstrung? It looks like a laptop without the physical keyboard, people are going to expect similar functionality.
Re:Average users don't WANT control (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, for the love of christ, get over yourself. People are sheep because they don't want to spend time and energy maintaining their gadgets, they just want to use them?
YOU are the sheep because you think that defective gadgets - ones where you need to spend time and energy on maintenance that a PROPERLY designed gadget wouldn't require - somehow makes you a better person. Rather than holding the people who design and sell those faulty gadgets responsible for releasing a shitty product, you instead seem to think it is a *virtue* that you're willing to put up with a crappy device that requires you to spend tons of time on tasks unrelated to what you want to do just so you can use their devices. You actually think it's a *good* thing that you have to do this!
Talk about being a brainwashed sheep!
I want tools that DO WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO with a minimal amount of hassle and that don't require me to spend tons of time making sure they're in good shape before I use them. When I want to use a web enabled device, I want to just surf the goddamn web. I don't want to spend 30 minutes checking for the latest viruses and exploits, scanning my system, and dealing with all that bullshit - I just want to surf the web and do whatever it is I'm going to do there. When I want to install an application on my computer I don't want to have to dick around with making sure permissions are right or that all dependencies are met or any of that - I just want to click as few buttons as possible and then use the application.
Please, though, feel free to continue to imagine that you're somehow better than everyone else because your time is worth so little to you that you're more than happy to spend your time making up for the failures of the people who provide you with gadgets and software to do their jobs better. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be getting actual work done or having fun with our gadgets. If not wasting my time doing bunches of routine maintenance tasks with my electronics makes me a sheep, then baa baa baa, guilty as charged.
Re:Average users don't WANT control (Score:4, Insightful)
My, that's an awfully nice strawman you've constructed - too bad you had to go and kick it over like that.
I never said that closed platforms were the only way to go, or that people shouldn't be able to use their tools in any way they see fit. I simply said that if one thinks someone who doesn't want to fuck around with maintenance, doesn't want to have to learn how to do anything with their computer other than use it, one is wrong to do so.
So, it takes you 10-15 seconds to check for anti-virus at boot? Awesome! I'm assuming, since you didn't mention it, that your computer also must know what software to download and install in the first place, and how to set itself up to do the whole background automation process? It must have done that right out of the box - which is pretty cool, since I've never known Windows to do that! I guess it also only took you 10-15 seconds to learn enough about anti-virus software to know you need it and how to work with it on your system, how to disable it when you install some software, and so on?
With installation, sometimes, yes, it can be as easy as that, but often times - I know this will shock you - people make craptacular installers that don't make it easy to install. "What do they mean 'custom' installation?" "Why is it telling me that folder doesn't exist?" "It wants to know if I want to install this toolbar thing, well duh of course I do because isn't that what I'm trying to do?" Don't make the mistake of thinking that because these things are obvious to you or many people who deal with tech regularly that they aren't still somewhat confusing to people who just want these things to work.
With driver updates, yeah, that's *brilliant* - I'm sure the average person knows how to do that and isn't remotely confused by what a driver is, where to get it, or any of that. I, for one, was born with that knowledge in my racial memory. I'm being sarcastic, in case you couldn't tell. My point is even that having to do that kind of thing is often actually outside the scope of what people want to do with their computers. A well designed device would make it easy - "Hey, there's a bunch of new stuff that might make your computer work a little better and be a little more secure. It could mess it up, too, so you have a choice if you want to install it or not. And if you do install it, if you don't like the way it works you can go back to how it works now by clicking a button. Ok?"
Bottom line is this:
Most people would prefer it if the manufacturers of the stuff they use took care of all that maintenance shit for them. Especially if they're looking for a device that's billed as easy to use and just works. When it isn't easy to use (even if it is something as trivial as just knowing how to install or uninstall an application can be), or it doesn't "just work" people who wanted those things are bothered. But the fact that they want such a device - even one that is closed - does not make them sheep. It just makes them "people who don't care about a device being open or closed and just want to use it."
Calling them sheep devalues their humanity. It's demented and disgusting.
Re:Average users don't WANT control (Score:5, Insightful)
"Can't you fix it so that I don't have to worry about that?"
"Sorry, I can't fix anything. It's locked down to just do what it does."
"Why doesn't the computer just do that for me?"
"It does what the manufacturer made it do, we can't do a damn thing about it"
"Just make it work, I don't care how, and I don't want to know."
"It's a closed system. It just does what it does"
See how those answers could be different for a reasonably open system? (not necessarily Open Source -- even Windows and OSX are open enough to improve those answers).