How Apple's App Review Is Sabotaging the iPhone 509
snydeq writes to recommend Peter Wayner's inside look at the frustration iPhone developers face from Apple when attempting to distribute their apps through the iPhone App Store. Wayner's long piece is an extended analogy comparing Apple to the worst of Soviet-era bureaucracy. "Determined simply to dump an HTML version of his book into UIWebView and offer two versions through the App Store, Wayner endures four months of inexplicable silences, mixed messages, and almost whimsical rejections from Apple — the kind of frustration and uncertainty Wayner believes is fast transforming Apple's regulated marketplace into a hotbed of bottom-feeding mediocrity. 'Developers are afraid to risk serious development time on the platform as long as anonymous gatekeepers are able to delay projects by weeks and months with some seemingly random flick of a finger,' Wayner writes of his experience. 'It's one thing to delay a homebrew project like mine, but it's another thing to shut down a team of developers burning real cash. Apple should be worried when real programmers shrug off the rejections by saying, "It's just a hobby."'"
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Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't personally have an iPhone but from what I have seen it seems like most iPhone apps are half-baked juvenile distractions, rather than anything seriously useful.
I have the same problem with using NetJets, that personal jet service Roger Federer uses. I'm sure it's just fraught with late departures and stuck up pilots. One is likely always arriving at their destination late or worse, early, and having to stand around with the populous waiting for the limousine.
How many iPhone app reviewers are there? How long does it take to fully test an application so you don't get sued for allowing something that:
1) Bricks the phone
2) Has child porn shoved inside it
3) Is free, barely does what the description says it will do, and yet you need to waste your time deciding if it's just not broken enough to put up there
If there are one hundred app reviewers, there are too few.
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Interesting)
> If the iPhone were properly designed it shouldn't be possible to brick via just a software installation
I'd say the exact opposite is true. Who wants a platform that is so locked down you can't screw it up hacking it? Boooorring! It's precisely because you can brick it that Pwnage tool can exist, and I'd say the platform would be FAR less interesting if that were the case.
Wow, such an anti-technology skew. So out of place on /.
Don't get me wrong, the whole approval thing seems like something out of the dark ages to me. But seriously, the machine shouldn't be hackable? Yikes!
Maury
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Interesting)
Your point is taken. However, it's a false dichotomy.
I have an Openmoko Neo Freerunner. It's thoroughly hackable in all respects, except (for legal reasons) the GSM and GPS firmware. Pretty much the opposite of "locked down". Yet it's not possible for me to screw it up completely; there's a backup copy of the bootloader, which cannot be overwritten by any software running on the phone. No matter how badly the OS gets broken, I can always use that backup bootloader to re-flash and start over.
Even this doesn't qualify as "locking down", however; if I really wanted to, I could buy a "debug board" from OM which would allow me to overwrite everything, including the bootloader. The debug board, naturally, would allow me to brick the phone much more thoroughly, but at the same time it would also enable me to undo any changes I made.
Even without the debug board, I think the Neo qualifies as both sufficiently hackable and sufficiently unbrickable for most purposes.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
> No matter how badly the OS gets broken, I can always use that backup bootloader to re-flash and start over.
So in other words, its perfectly possible to brick it with software. You just have a handy backup available to un-brick it when you do. Right?
Just like the iPhone. What's this you were saying about "proper design"?
Maury
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Who wants a platform that is so locked down you can't screw it up hacking it? Boooorring
The guy who needs to make a phone call. The guy who wants everything to just work. The guy who shops at Apple.
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is exactly why OSX is so solid, and why I am a linux/windows admin. Don't mod me troll or flamebait yet, I love OSX because of that, it runs very solidly and I barely ever have to go to my creative department to fix things, but you don't get a mac for its mod ability. But the reason OSX is so great is because it runs in a handful of platforms, so driver and software problems are minimal. I assume they are trying to do the same with the iphone, this will get you a solid device, even though it will be a pain to develop on.
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well I do have an iPhone, and there are a lot of good apps there. Certainly more good stuff than any other phone platform.
As to the proportion that is good... if Apple didn't filter out various of the worst UI disasters as they do, the proportion of crap would be higher.
As to the summary author... he dumped his book into a webview, and then Apple wouldn't publish it. Case in point. They've published plenty of ebooks with good UIs.
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Informative)
Actually they did publish it. Then they took 2+ weeks to publish the dozen or so new lines of code that fixed bugs.
At the same time they rejected a very similar version. The only difference was some extra HTML. The Cocoa code was equivalent.
So it was fairly random.
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> So it was fairly random.
Keep screaming. This issue has too get solved. Its entirely out of hand, and completely broken. I can't imagine any other platform where the platform author can get away with this much restriction and control.
Safari has no age restrictions. Everybody else's app that embeds web does.
It needs fixing. Apple's feet need to be held to the fire. The only pressure they understand is public embarrassment in the mainstream press.
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>> "I can't imagine any other platform where the platform author can get away with this much restriction and control."
Nintendo (SNES, GameCube, DS, Wii)?
Electronic Arts (on game publishing)?
I'm sure there are others.
-dZ.
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For everyone's interest, here's the submitter's app:
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=310737253&mt=8 [apple.com]
And here is a list of the reviews it's had around the world so far. Every single review is a one star review. All complaining that the UI is broken.
http://www.moopf.com/appstorereviews/appstore.php?appid=&urlappid=http%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2FWebObjects%2FMZStore.woa%2Fwa%2FviewSoftware%3Fid%3D310737253%26mt%3D8&submit=Get+Reviews [moopf.com]
Apple's mistake was this one tim
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See the second link. If your average has gone up in the 79 minutes since that script ran, then it probably means you've given it 5 stars yourself since reading it.
But really, that you are arguing 1 star vs 2 rather than hanging your head in shame at such a pitiful set of reviews says it all.
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Informative)
From the sound of it he's tried getting the app passed numerous times despite knowing that what he's doing is not allowed.
Really? What am I doing that's not allowed? I pop up a UIWebView and stick in some HTML. That's it. Yet I got some rejection letters telling me that I was either accessing a private API (I wasn't) or somehow interpreting code. (I wasn't.) The UIWebView was doing that and it is perfectly okay for Apple's frameworks to interpret things.
Here's what the rejection note said:
No interpreted code may be downloaded or used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Documented APIs and built-in interpreter(s)."
Well, everything I do is pumped into the UIWebView which is well documented.
Furthermore, how can Apple really make any deep decisions like this? I don't upload code. They don't compile it. They look at raw binary code.
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Furthermore, how can Apple really make any deep decisions like this? I don't upload code. They don't compile it. They look at raw binary code.
Do you not think it is trivial to tell which system and library calls your binary app is making? I don't know anything about which iPhone API's are allowed or disallowed, but let me assure you that it is quite simple to know exactly which calls a binary executable is making. Having the source code wouldn't make that any easier.
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The real issue is much deeper. You can tell whether all the calls are to legit library entry points, but you can't tell if the calls are somehow malicious You're right. The binary will tell you a few things, but it won't tell you everything. I contend that you can't make firm decisions about that without reading the source.
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Informative)
Given that you are already ignoring the reasons stated in your rejections from Apple reviewers who have seen your app, it's a bit pointless me reiterating.
But, in your linked whine, you admit to using PhoneGap, and you admit to knowing Apple don't allow it. And you admit to trying to hide your tracks. If I were Apple I'd kick you out of the program for wasting their time.
They obviously have scripts that create and check class dumps and search for tell tale strings.
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Informative)
It's be bad if it was the only thing they do. But as an automated procedure it makes perfect sense as one of the many things they check. It caught you out for a start.
It's spelled out in the rejection you and others have had. You're not allowed to use third party APIs. Apple may have any number of reasons, but that fact that it enables you to change your application code remotely without going through the approvals process is an obvious reason for rejection.
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not a single version of the Apps I submitted had the ability to change themselves or allow me to change them remotely. None. Nada.
If they really are doing more than checking for forbidden strings, they would be able to see that quickly by skimming the HTML. It's very boring. Plus, it's easier to read. It's not in binary like many apps.
I don't see how an "external framework"-- the term they used-- has anything to do with this. The rejection note said that I was to make sure that everything was to be "interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s)". It's always been that way from the start. It doesn't matter who writes the code.
The only way I can interpret (hah!) what you're saying is to conclude that App development is meant to be like elementary school. You're not supposed to work with others. You're not allowed to use well-tested open source code. You're supposed to write your own code. Why is this wrong? Why is working with others going to give me the magical ability to change how my app works remotely?
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter why Apple rejected my application because many others come away with exactly the same experience even if they don't use PhoneGap: it's all pretty much random. Sometimes you get a cogent rejection note. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes they're fair. Sometimes they're not. It's all a coin flip which is the main point of my piece. It's not about PhoneGap. It's about the randomness and the brick wall and the lack of communication and the absolute power etc.
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Re:And yet... (Score:4, Informative)
No. Of course not. I've been around the world enough to realize that you don't write what I wrote without expecting the immune system to dispense as many white blood cells as it can muster.
If you read TFA, you'll see toward the end that I'm heading toward pure webapps now. They've got their own issues, but they're cross platform and there's no gatekeeper.
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Informative)
Useless? Perhaps.
But that's not what my rejection notes said. They prattled on about using a "framework" or misusing some part of the API.
And they also told me I couldn't tell anyone I was giving my revenues to charity.
If it was all as useless as you feel, they could have saved everyone a great deal of time by just stamping "useless" on it from the git-go. Then I wouldn't have wasted time fretting about misusing the API and they would have had one more useless App to reject once again with a passive aggressive reason.
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
There is nothing abusive about setting standards for the apps they accept. When you agree to the contract to become an iPhone developer, you know they have standards you need to adhere to. Most of us get published without problem. This guy ignores the reasons stated for rejection, tries to hide his tracks, and resubmit the app without remedying the problems. No wonder he gets rejected again and again. This is the behaviour of a loon banging his head against a wall.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
When I wrote this piece, I went out of my way to discuss the subject with many other developers. If this were simply a question of my problems, it wouldn't be worth writing. But many other developers are having similar problems with entirely different approaches. That's why I included the long list of adjectives that other developers are using. Go read their posts. Are they all simply dismissed as loons?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Informative)
I have an iPhone app successfully published, and that doesn't change that fact that Apple's actions in this case are complete BS.
This guy ignores the reasons stated for rejection
The reasons are incoherent. PhoneGap is not an "external API" any more than any other piece of open source code is. Maybe you don't care as long as your apps get approved, but I find it ridiculous and harmful to the platform, speaking as both an iPhone user and developer.
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They aren't incoherent. PhoneGap is a cross platform API. It's obvious Apple won't allow it.
If you want to do a web app, Apple allows those. But you live within a strict security model, and you don't get revenue, and the user expects that it will be of web-app quality of interaction.
This is an attempt for people to circumvent the security, functionality and revenue model for web apps.
Finlly, what would happen if all apps used PhoneGap? Then the quality of mobile apps would go down to the lowest common de
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
How many of them are good? Well, quite honestly alot more are good than if there was no review process at all. If there wasn't a review process, we'd see apps that ignored or borked your settings, leaked memory like a sieve, chewed through your battery life out of ignorance, or hell - maybe we'd simply be looking at a deluge of carbon copy flashlight and porn apps, making the app store effectively useless. Hell, in my opinion (and I do have an iphone) the app store already has *too many* apps, and the quality on the ones there aren't quite high enough for my liking.
I suppose you could think of it this way: you're looking for a needle (good app that does what you want) and you can either search in the pin cushion full of mostly needles and a bit of straw or you can search through the whole fricking hay stack yourself. I'll take the pin cushion, thank-you-very-much.
Also, I'm not sure that you're really qualified to say anything about the relative quality of the app store. You don't, afterall, actually have an iphone.
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Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple's managed to get more than fifty thousand apps through the process and onto the store. Nobody's going to write stories about the ones that went smoothly.
Apple is stifling innovation and you think it's fine so long as they've let through 50,000 tetris clones (okay an exaggeration, but it makes my point). Gotta love it. Think different indeed. Think with our marketing blinkers on. To top it off I bet I get modded troll by Apple zealots.
This is EXACTLY why we need OPEN architectures. No developer should have to go through putting together an application only to have it rejected arbitrarily. The same people who support DRM and copyright supposedly to compensate the creator are happy to deny a developer ANY money for their effort at their whim. Hypocrites!
Well I won't be buying an iPhone no matter how "cool" they look or what nifty features they have let alone gambling my time and effort developing for one in the hope that some junior Apple cronie rubber stamps it.
Re: (Score:2)
This is EXACTLY why we need OPEN architectures.
Sure, but on the other hand, you have to agree that Apple did a good job of keeping viruses and spamware off their platform. There is indeed a real human being(*) who tests all the apps and makes sure that the app does what its description claims...
If you make a completely open app store, make sure you protect your users against malicious experience. You don't want your end-users to be upset.
(*) sometimes it does feel like there is indeed one human being doing all the testing :-)
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Informative)
Are you for real? Do you have any idea of what it was like to develop mobile apps before Cocoa Touch was available?
-jcr
That's not the point. It didn't take me long to write the software. It took me weeks to get rejections and the rejection reasons were nonsensical. One dinged me for using open source software because it was a "framework".
More sensible review please, not less. (Score:4, Insightful)
If the results of the review process resulted in less junk cluttering up the appstore than the delays would be more acceptable, but the things they allow are just bizzare. Do they really need almost 400 separate 'supafan' apps from the same developer [appbeacon.com] where the only difference is which celebrity news is being tracked?
Re:More sensible review please, not less. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I think this getting at the deep point I was trying to make. Any one company-- even Apple-- can satisfy all of the demands of all of the customers. Many want only quality apps. Some want violence with faux school shootings. (http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/20/apple-approves-iphone-app-that-promotes-school-shootings/) Some don't.
Apple can't make one group happy without angering the other. It's caught in an impossible bind.
Personally I'm peeved that they approved this school shooting simulator before approving my GOLD app. But what can I say?
Re:And yet... Better Experience (Score:5, Informative)
My first application was rejected within a week due to a crash in a certain situation I hadn't caught previously (I should know better than to assume the debug build would act like a release build). Obviously, they go through each of the screens and check the functionality. However, I had expected one of the "nonsensical" reasons I've heard of or the extremely long review process.
I was surprised that the reviewer put in what the error was and how to reproduce it. I reproduced the error and ultimately resolved. Next submission was accepted after about a week or so as well.
Based on this experience, I really worked hard to anticipate issues with my next application before submitting. Made it in ten or so days in one pass. Both applications are rather benign without anything controversial which probably played into this.
I feel fortunate that they made it through relatively easy. I hope the game I'm developing goes as well. The oblig plug -- GMToolKit (RPG helper) and FW Calendar (Calendar with fiscal weeks displayed) are the applications.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They could be stifling innovation and promoting innovation at the same time. And indeed, this is what they're doing -- at the same time as they innovate with interesting things like, say, GrandCentral, they also discourage innovation in many ways, like blocking competing phones from synchronizing with iTunes.
Requiring approval for the App Store could be called many things, but it's not innovative, nor does it promote innovation.
It brings to mind Sony, who managed to produce a DVD DRM scheme which produced d
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
It would only be capricious of Apple if they have no reason for rejecting PhoneGap apps. Clearly they DO have reasons.
The guy in the alley wearing a tinfoil hat and babbling about aliens has reasons too; the question is whether they are legitimate. Of the potential reasons in the article, #1 and #2 appear to be factually incorrect, and #3 (not wanting cross-platform apps) is blatantly anticompetitive and hostile to both developers and users. Unfortunately it's also the most likely given their refusal to explain in any detail; it's not something they would want to publicly admit. Good thing they have plenty of fanboys to give them a pass.
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Informative)
Are you for real? Do you have any idea of what it was like to develop mobile apps before Cocoa Touch was available?
Elaborate, please. I didn't see any difficulties developing apps for Windows Mobile in VS, for example.
Re: (Score:2)
Arguments for or against a certain thing require nothing more than an opinion and a reasoning behind it.
Evidence helps, but does not suddenly validate or invalidate a position.
For example, child porn is wrong, and its creators must be stopped because they harm the children involved.
Most people can think about that statement, and come to a valid conclusion for or against the position without requiring any bit of evidence supplied in the argument.
And yet, you gave no reason for requiring further proof in this
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Exactly which assertions did he make that you're expecting evidence to support?
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Apple's managed to get more than fifty thousand apps through the process and onto the store. Nobody's going to write stories about the ones that went smoothly.
And everyone one of those apps has had a message from the author in the description saying "Version 2.0 coming ($today-30days). It should solve the connectivity issues". The review process may have gotten them through, but I've not seen fast upgrades for anything other than big companies that can pay to be heard.
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You missed the point. Its a quality argument, not a quantity argument.
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There are 100s of stories of the successful app, what does it say about you that you haven't read any? I one of the 100,000 iphone developers, and I enjoy reading the good stories much more than the day. Mainly because I already now what the bad stories will say, I have lived through it.
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Its kind of like using CitySearch.com for restaurent reviews. Pulling random numbers out of my ass, you'll get 5 out of 10 people who write a review about a bad experience to 'stick it to them' and 1 out of 20 people who write a good review just because they read all the bad ones and want to try and balance it out.
Personally, I think if that is what sabotaging your own device looks like, I need to figure out how to sabotage my own companies products so we get those sort of numbers.
I'd love to have Apples p
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Don't forget the "mirror" applications that do even less. Yet they've got a high click through rate.
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/17/top-iphone-app-developer-was-losing-out-on-2000-a-day-because-of-sloppy-coding/ [techcrunch.com]
Good (Score:3, Insightful)
Long live Android!
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
You may recall this story [wired.com] about how Apple thrives under Steve Jobs dictatorial and secretive management style.
You may even recall the infamous slashdot iPod launch coverage [slashdot.org] in which it was deemed "lame" because it was less feature-rich than the competition.
This is the history of Apple: there is a market for simple, well-managed products that work out of the box, and maintaining tight proprietary control over the Apple universe is how this is accomplished. I don't know what this says for openness, but there you have it. So long as your use cases aren't too far out of the ordinary, I guess it's worth it to have the trains run on time.
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Indeed. I bought because I tried the product. Not because of ANY form of marketing.
You don't know what you are talking about. Astroturfing is FAKE grass
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iPhone OS 3.0 has copy/paste. And the implementation is excellent.
Zooming where everything stays in proportion was NOT available on phones before Safari. They'd typically zoom by changing the size of a font, which caused a relayout, and the pictures and text didn;t zoom together. No other browser zoomed had iPhone's zooming method does before iPhone.
Scrolling = scrolling by swipe/drag on iPhone. Scrollling via scroll bars or a 4 way direction pad is inferior.
Looks like we have.... (Score:2)
Annoying process, but still worth it. (Score:5, Informative)
I too have found this process annoying. Apples now ruling on UIWebView is ridiculous. I tried to work with them on not allowing any links to work, and they weren't happy enough with that, I still need to give it maximum rating.
But the most frustrating aspect is having no communication with customers. A customer spots a bug, leaves a review that is it. You can fix it, but there is no way to get in touch with that customer, or leave a reply saying you have fixed it. There is even no message that a customer has left a review, you have to trawl through all your apps for reviews every so often, or you will never find out about this.
It is a great system, I will keep producing apps because of this, but it certainly could be better.
Re:Annoying process, but still worth it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Can't you just post a link to a bug tracker in your product description?
Re:Annoying process, but still worth it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Shameless plug:
FlickTunes (website) [sogeekysoftware.com]
FlickTunes (iTunes) [sogeekysoftware.com]
And this is different from what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sidekicks -- They have a "marketplace too". Locked down. T-mobile phones. Locked down. AT&T phones. Locked down. Almost every phone in existance has a "market place" equivalent, which has an approval process. Suddenly the iPhone comes along and people were expecting sunshine and kittens?
Re:And this is different from what? (Score:5, Informative)
It's not that other phones have a marketplace with an approval process, it's that the marketplace is the only way to load programs onto your phone. With a Windows Mobile phone, you can download and install a .cab from anywhere you want. If it's not signed you get a brief warning message, and that's it.
Re:And this is different from what? (Score:4, Informative)
Sony Ericsson phones run Java apps, and are not locked. BlackBerry phones run Java apps and BlackBerry apps, and are not locked.
Both may be locked to a single carrier, but they're not locked with respect to what software you can run, and where you can download it from. In fact, the iPhone is the only common phone I know of which has such a control-freak approach to applications.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Android: pay US$25, get published.
Android Alternative: Dont pay US$25, publish the APK on your web site.
WinMo: for all its flaws, build app, publish. There is no marketplace.
You were saying?
Author is a dumbass (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's count off the ways that the author is a dumbass:
Have you tried the alternative store? (Score:5, Insightful)
I unlocked my phone within minutes of getting it home. I then proceded to take a look at the apps available via the Cydia store, which is unencumbered by the Apple review process.
Pretty much everything I tried was garbage with the developers doing just enough to get something ported and then abandoning it regardless of what kind of glaring bugs are in the system, yes the reveiw process is harsh but it does help maintain a minimum level of quality that is bettter than 99% of the apps in the cydia store.
(still, being able to get low level access to my phone still makes the jailbreak worthwhile)
Re:Have you tried the alternative store? (Score:5, Informative)
What percent of the 20+ million devices running iPhone OS do you think are jail broken? It's just not a reliable answer for most people.
Some people see things how they are.
Re:Have you tried the alternative store? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm sure part of the problem with the "unofficial" app store is that it's quite likely that one of these days, Apple will get serious, and make a bootloader without glaring security holes in it. (I mean come ON, Apple, the bootloader isn't that big!...)
When that happens, it may be impossible to "permanently" unlock an iPhone without hardware mods, which will seriously limit the Jailbreak community -- probably into irrelevance.
That's a rather big risk for anyone to take on in their development...
Heck, I'm not even bothering to learn to write for the iPhone as a *hobby*, because it'd be a waste of my time. Pretty much everything I want to write isn't allowed by Apple's rules, and while my phone is Jailbroken, Apple is trying (so far, completely incompetently...) to prevent me from being able to buy a new jailbreakable iPhone ever again. So it seems to me that the iPhone is basically a dead-end platform.
Wasted time (Score:4, Insightful)
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That plus the fact you have to pay to become a developer and can only develop the apps on a mac (with mac hardware), so that is another financial hurdle. I seriously considered developing iphone apps, but probably of it being a waste of time and money was too high.
How many apps ... (Score:2)
... available for the iPhone nvolve some sort of fee/subscription/paid srvice from a third party? In other words, other than services/fees involving Apple/AT&T?
Apple is willing to take the risk. (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe it was rejected because it sucks (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyone saying that ... (Score:2)
Consider Apple's motivations (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple's customers are not the app developers. Apple's customers are the iPhone users. So long as there are users waiting in line with money to spend, there will be app developers competing for that money, no matter how arduous the review process may be.
This will only change when a competitor such as Android offers better apps or better selection than what the Apple store carries. This could happen, but it will take quite some time due to Apple's head start.
Let me try to understand something (Score:5, Informative)
is your APP pure HTML, or does it contain JavaScript code like the PhoneGap [phonegap.com] project uses?
If it contains JavaScript code, maybe Apple didn't like the way it was designed as it was similar to the old PhoneGap code they rejected, did you update your JavaScript code to the new PhoneGap codebase that was approved, or did you remove the old PhoneGap code with different JavaScript code?
If your APP is HTML with JavaScript, Apple might have an issue with that. Sometimes JavaScript code can do nonstandard things that locks up a web browser or causes incompatibility issues. When I programmed in JavaScript I had to keep changing my code to changing Web browser standards, as soon as a new web browser was released, the way JavaScript worked would change and I had to change my code to accommodate it.
If it is pure HTML, there might be tags you are using that Apple finds non-standard and thinks they might run exploited code.
Here is a story on why Apple rejected the PhoneGap framework in the first place [readwriteweb.com].
Yeah I know, Apple wants to protect their users and set quality control standards high, and they include such rules as not using third party or open source frameworks, and Apple does not want the APP modified on the iPhone after being bought, Apple does not want the APP to run on a competitor's phone (HTML and JavaScript applications can easily be ported to another format), and PhoneGap type applications may not work on future iPhones, it is all a matter of risk management. Apple does not want to risk anything so it sets strict guidelines on what an iPhone APP can and cannot do.
Yeah ironically Apple has exchanged freedom for security, and in doing so shut out developers like yourself. Even something as simple as HTML code and/or JavaScript has to be reviewed and has a possibility of being rejected. It goes against the open source philosophy, I don't know what else to say. Even Microsoft is not that strict on what can and cannot be done on their smart phones or Windows OS. Except to say that Microsoft's products are more prone to exploits and viruses and other malware, and maybe Apple is doing this kind of thing to prevent exploits in their iPhone?
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It's not worth speculating on why Apple rejected my application because I don't know. The notes were short and pretty much inscrutable. Eventually they accepted one version while rejecting one that was pretty much the same thing. So maybe it was some Javascript, but that doesn't sound like it should be against the rules. They only insist that code be "interpreted and run by Apple's Documented APIs and built-in interpreter(s)." Well, it sure sounds like Safari and Javascript fit that definition to me.
The Other Problem (Score:4, Interesting)
The rich get richer. Browsing the App Store, you see the most popular apps at the top. There is no power search for apps with the highest user ratings. I really can't find what I'm looking for.
New app developers start at the bottom and have to compete against popular apps already ingrained at the top.
I'm writing for an App Review site right now that hopes to help alleviate that.
This happens in EVERY iPhone discussion (Score:3, Interesting)
There are generally two polarized camps:
1. Apple is too restrictive
2. It's Apple's game, it's a damned good game, and if you don't want to play it, then go home!
Both camps have some valid points and the biggest problem is that the second camp effectively refuses to see the validity of the first camp. The first camp's complaints have nothing to do with the [defensive] position of the second camp. In fact, you can both love and admire the iPhone and still think that Apple is a bunch of jerks with Nazi policies.
But it is such a repetitive and pointless cycle. Neither side will convince anyone of the other side to see it their way.
Personally, I am in the first camp. I won't voluntarily buy an iPhone until someone sets up a jail-broken app store from which to distribute the apps Apple doesn't approve of. And frankly, there are many phones that are LOTS better than the iPhone so it's a moot point really. Still -- let people complain and maybe one day Apple will listen... I have no reason to believe they will. Apple is more stubborn than Apple's fans are.
Over 65,000 apps, you say? (Score:5, Funny)
That's a suspicious number... Clearly Apple must be rejecting so many iPhone apps because the App Store database can only hold 65,536 apps!
Advice to Peter (Score:4, Insightful)
From what others have been pointing out you've been trying to do something naughty or odd and you're getting called out on it. You just won't admit that you're at fault and would rather just take the shot at Apple.
I certainly rather enjoy that you make note to call out Apple for their vague reasons for denying your application, but yet you have not been very open exactly as to what has been rejected. You could very well post the source code to your application if you were this desperate to call Apple out, but you won't, because chances are someone, somewhere, will call bullshit on you. The fact is, that Apple is vague because they might not have all of the source available--but you do. And you are the only one that can change what you're doing, not them.
A hotbed of mediocrity? (Score:4, Funny)
Wouldn't that be more like a 'lukewarmbed'?
Re:Yeah, platform is hurting (Score:4, Insightful)
Might have been 2 billion if it was an easier process.
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"The same can't be said for a development studio. If you decide that you are going to commit resources to making an app, you are likely to want a guarantee that it can be released."
If you're a development house and you commit resources and create a console game, is there an ironclad GUARANTEE that Walmart or Best Buy or Gamestop is going to stock it? No. The game may suck. The game may crash. And so on.
Just like with music and books and video, just because you create it doesn't mean you're guarenteed to sel
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No kidding. Most phones can run Java programs. Sun even lets you download the SDK for mobile development for free!
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What I meant was that you can also load your phone with Java apps without paying anyone (at least the phones I've owned thus far from AT&T are like that).
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By putting it in an app, he is gaining the benefit of the Apple distribution system, and he is even hoping he will make money by doing so. In fact, I doubt he would even have tri
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First they came for the "lame" apps that wanted to be distributed on the iPhone, but I didn't care because I didn't have and iPhone and/or trust Apple to filter apps for me. . .
Its easy to shrug your shoulders now, when you don't care about a particular functionality. Or if you happen to be the type that habitually runs their cash through Apple's distribution system to buy gimmicky apps that you only use once.
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If you read deeper, you'll find the answers to some of your questions. First, the AppStore has proven to be worthless for driving any interest in my books. You can't even find the book by typing the name of the book into the search field. It doesn't help to add quotes around the name. You get other apps with odd names. Don't ask me what's going on.
Second, this isn't about free advertising. I paid Apple to be included in their dev program. You can't even submit free apps without paying.
There's been a healthy
Re:So... (Score:5, Funny)
Make sure you click on every story that doesn't involve you, and inform us of how it doesn't relate to you. I find that comments like yours really add to the discussion.
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Make sure you click on every story that doesn't involve you, and inform us of how it doesn't relate to you. I find that comments like yours really add to the discussion.
Your response is not really an issue for those of us who are not Rival.
This message should be modded up to 5 insightful if recent trends are any indication.
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What if the subject of the discussion is the reason why it doesn't relate to me? i.e., what if the poorly-conceived App store is the main reason stopping someone from getting an iPhone?
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This is not really an issue for those of us without iPhones.
You forgot about ipod touches.
Before you hit post, yes, this is still not an issue if you don't have an ipod touch or an iphone.
Re:So... (Score:5, Interesting)
That's your phone provider's fault. I've got an iPhone and I love it. I have wasted so much time with it. Trism [demiforce.com], Peggle [popcap.com] (great control!), and Flight Control [firemint.com] have taken large chunks of my life.
Both my siblings have Palm Pres. I've played with them, and they're quite nice. My only complains were the build quality (would like it a little tighter) and navigation (you have to know the gestures, they're not discoverable). The card metaphor is very good.
But the app store is empty. There are three games, one of which is... connect 4.
The SDK was just released to the public, in beta. It's not meant for games, it's barely more advanced than the first way to develop for the iPhone (which was so roundly criticized). You can't get accelerometer data faster than 4 samples/sec. Palm is supposed to be making a gaming framework, but who knows how long that will be.
So right now Palm is taking submissions for their app store, which will only be able to handle non-demanding games (no Katamari Damacy there), for it's fall opening. Even if your game is done, no one will be able to buy it for months.
Basically, the Pre will be devoid of good apps for at least the next 6 months. The situation is really sad. They messed it up, big time. The SDK, even in alpha, should have been available months ago, so there would be apps at launch.
Windows Mobile has tons of apps, and a tradition of tiny little utilities costing $20. Combine that with the fragmentation of device capabilities and the market is... rough for a consumer.
Blackberries? I've heard that to develop anything on them that doesn't look like a 1996 Java applet requires you to basically do the painting for every widget on screen. There is device fragmentation here too. The app store it's self is a joke, it's very difficult to use. There is no way to browse it from a computer, which makes using it a nightmare.
Apple proved good apps were a "killer app". No one really "got" the importance of them before the iPhone's native SDK came out. Unfortunately, after more than a year, no one else is even close to being able to foster any kind of app ecosystem. Palm should have, but botched it.
I'm not really sure about the G1. I'm guessing it's sales are just too small for it to reach any kind of critical mass soon (where the Pre has a chance and Blackberries are there).
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The difference is simple, Apple has FAR more developers than the XBox does.
This story is just someone else riding Apples success, sure its a gripe, but it wouldn't matter if they weren't doing so well in the first place.
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Look around. Palm and Symbian applications can be downloaded from many websites. Here's a website with more than 500 open source Palm apps:
http://www.palmopensource.com/ [palmopensource.com]
Microsoft works with a number of stores like Handango.
If the sandbox is good enough-- and it's not that hard to build a good one-- then any software should be downloadable.
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It's a lot different in the fact you don't need to be a large company and spend thousands of dollars on special developer units, and licenses, and software to do the developing. Apple has a one time cost of $100 to anyone, all you need is a Mac, which are sadly cheaper than an Xbox dev unit. (I don't know about Wii's, but the process is the same.) And, the development SDK is free for anyone. Verizon's process is, you have to spend about $500 on a certificate from Verisign, you have to be a big enough compan
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Re:The review process certainly has its flaws, but (Score:3, Informative)
I thought about this before working on the project and I saw that many other apps were distributing single books. After I tested some of the free ones, I decided that it wasn't a bad system at all. Sure, it added another icon, but I could live with that. When I was done with the book, I was going to delete it anyways to make room for others.
I can understand why you might want a different solution, but it boils down to a question of menu branching. Some people like a shallow tree with many options. Others wa