Netflix Extends "Watch Instantly" To Mac Users 205
CNet is reporting that Netflix has opened up its "Watch Instantly" feature to Mac users (here is Netflix's blog entry). They accomplished this by using Microsoft's Silverlight technology on both platforms, abandoning the Windows Media Player solution that had been employed in the first, Windows-only, version. Silverlight's DRM capabilities meet Netflix's needs, apparently. Netflix warns that this is beta software. Mac users can opt in here, then watch instantly with Safari or Firefox 2+, with the Silverlight plugin in place. Movie selection is somewhat limited.
DRM pushes Silverlight (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:DRM pushes Silverlight (Score:5, Insightful)
I am really afraid of DRM giving Silverlight power and more distribution (and vice versa). While Flash has (or will have?) DRM capabilities too, another "competitor" on the DRM market could really make things even worse than they are.
On the contrary, more "competition" in the DRM realm is the best way to make things better than they are.
competing formats == more people frustrated and screaming "why the hell isn't this working" at the top of their lungs.
Of course, base silverlight without the DRM packages will work just fine at doing that. In fact, that's my guess at why it "meets their requirements".
Nothing makes a more "secure" drm than a codec and playback system with arguably the lowest market penetration and adoption rate as of this post. Security by obscurity at its best.
In the mean time, there's a better competitor [thepiratebay.org] to netflix for those who want their full HD movies in a watchable, savable, and compatible format.
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All these problems could be solved with .avi
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Re:DRM pushes Silverlight (Score:4, Funny)
i'd prefer theora.
That's unique. No, really, I mean it. You're the only one in the world. Literally.
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I don't know, ability to rip an entire dvd, embed subtitles and multiple audio tracks, and have my sound in ogg (giving slightly better compression/quality) is a nice perk. Not really worth the loss of compatibility with other programs though.
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Theora is a codec, equivalent to VC-1 and H.264. It's also a lot less efficient, so you'd get lower quality given a particular bitrate.
AVI is a wrapper, equivalent to AVI, ASF, or MPEG-4. If you're talking about alternatives to AVI for Theora, you probably mean Ogg
But Silverlight itself isn't a media format, but a rich application runtime for browsers based on .net. Silverlight 2 mainly uses WMV as its media format, but it will be addding MPEG-4 and H.264 soon.
http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/H264-and-AAC-s [on10.net]
...until it's cracked/broken (Score:2)
Which will happen.
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A quick search says that Microsoft wants to put Silverlight on the iPhone... Maybe... In the not too distant future... Maybe... But, who knows?
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I want all my movies to be .avi and thats what I get.
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News flash! Customers want contents they don't care who made the software.
"Movie Selection is Limited"? (Score:5, Informative)
As far as I can tell, the beta allows access to the full instant watch selection that IE users would see. The player loads and buffers much quicker than the player in IE7- allowing for much faster skipping forwards and backwards on the old P-IV in my living room. The performance difference is fairly pronounced on my relatively new laptop. Under Firefox it is consistently 15 seconds from clicking "play" while browsing instant-watch to the actual start of the video. In IE7 it will take between 30 seconds 45 seconds. Video quality is indistinguishable in terms of clarity, but I noticed much less stuttering in the silverlight player.
On the old pentium IV machine in my livingroom, the time to play drops from about 1 minute to 25 seconds. While this is half the time, it was never a big deal when compared to the convenience. What is a big deal is the impressive drop in stuttering compared to the player in IE7. On my dinosaur of a living room computer, the video for all netflix movies would stutter every few seconds or so until the movie was fully buffered. In the silverlight player, there is no noticeable stuttering.
I did this totally subjective, non-scientific, arbitrary, and slightly drunk comparison on the following two machines:
Older-than-dirt desktop-
-2.4 GHz Pentium IV
-1GB DDR 333 RAM
-Windows XP Home SP3
-Ati Radeon 9800 Pro (256MB VRAM)
Slightly Newer Laptop-
-2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo
-2GB DDR2 RAM
-Windows XP Pro SP3
-Ati Radeon Mobility x1400 (god awful)
Comparing IE7 and Silverlight players, cont. (Score:4, Informative)
The Silverlight player does not require nearly as much free space as the IE7/WMP player for the "high quality" video to play. I've checked and the library is the same as that availible for the PC as far as the 182 items in my instant queue go.
While that doesn't cover the thousands upon thousands of items they stream, it does cover a wide range of properties. So far as I can tell, the Starz! content, the CBS current series content, the NBC current series content, and all the showtime content is still there. Other than that, well who cares if "Santa Clause Conquers the Martians" isn't availible in Firefox. Oh wait, it looks like it is.
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Dirt is at least twice as old as a Pentium 4. Come back when you have 286 results.
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My Tandy MC-10 is laughing at your puny attempts of suffering.
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It doesn't seem to differ from the normal instant watch selection. Obviously that selection is limited in that it does not encompass the entire Netflix library- that would be infeasible regardless of the player being used.
It doesn't even come close. Of the 100+ films in my (admittedly nonrepresentative) queue, only 4 are available for instant play.
A lot of studios are clearly waiting for something, but I can't imagine what. All of your films end up on BitTorrent, whether you make them available for online play or not.
I understand it taking time to get the back catalog ready, but they're not rushing to get the new stuff out, either. Perhaps they just haven't been offered the deal they want.
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Still not open availability? (Score:2)
This was somewhere (digg?) a couple days ago and it was in limited release to new users only. I still can't use it:
Our apologies -- instant watching is currently not supported for Macintosh.
We are working on a solution for Mac users and expect to have it available by the end of 2008.
Re:Still not open availability? (Score:4, Informative)
It's opt-in. Go here: http://www.netflix.com/silverlightoptin [netflix.com]
Awesome (Score:3)
Another annoying, proprietary bullshit extension I'm going to need to watch video in my browser that people are going to end up building entire websites in.
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If Mozilla and webkit and co keep improving the performance of Javascript this might be a real option soon :)
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Yep. This is why i'm hanging out for HTML's video tag and the Theora/Ogg online revolution!
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There are video CODECs written in Smalltalk running on Squeak. I was at a presentation by Alan Kay a couple of years ago where he gave the entire presentation from within Squeak, including video. Squeak isn't a particularly fast implementation of Smalltalk - it's a bytecode interpreter with no JIT capabilities. A modern JavaScript environment should be faster.
The main reason JavaScript would be slow for writing a video CODEC is that it only has one kind of numerical object, a double-precision float. Imp
DRM Free Alternative to Netfix (Score:4, Interesting)
I guess we all know it: https://thepiratebay.org/ [thepiratebay.org] And it doesn't require any Silverlight.
Re:People will pay Netflix for the convenience (Score:5, Funny)
When you come home from the pub at night after a few beers you don't want to wait for BitTorrent, you want it NOW!
After a few beers, I'm streaming a whole different kind of torrent.
Reason #1 this is useless to me (Score:3, Informative)
arrghh
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What, no pirate subtitles???
Re:Reason #1 this is useless to me (Score:5, Insightful)
Moonlight? (Score:2)
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Except that the only moonlight installation I've seen (from http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/index.aspx [go-mono.com]), explicitly says:
"Note: These are currently built without multimedia support. No video or mp3 playback is enabled on these binaries."
I know what that means, but I don't know why. Is it legal or technical?
Will it help, though? (Score:2)
This is obviously quite the coup for Microsoft and the Silverlight platform, which has up to now been a "nobody cares" platform [today.com]. The main effect of their previous big user, NBC for the Olympics, was to drive people to BitTorrent.
I fully understand that NetFlix wouldn't be allowed to make Hollywood movies available without some sort of DRM. But do they remember they're competing not with DVDs by mail or DVD rental, but with unlocked BitTorrent downloads?
How usable is NetFlix via Silverlight? Does the DRM hav
Opera works as well... (Score:2)
Reasons to hate Silverlight? (Score:2)
Every time I see a mention of Silverlight, it's followed shortly thereafter by a stream of comments of the form "Silverlight sux0rz". However, none of the ones I've skimmed have given any particular reasons.
I'm curious as to specific reasons why I should avoid installing the Silverlight plug-in on my Mac. I'm already aware of (and sympathetic to) the "DRM is fundamentally evil" argument; I'm looking for other reasons beyond that (and its companion "Microsoft is evil").
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It's another lockin application; they reel ou away from flash and lock you in to Windows.
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Thanks, but I think these (modulo the "problems with Firefox" item) basically come under the "DRM is bad" and "Microsoft is bad" umbrella, at least to my way of thinking. I guess I should have added that I'm not really looking for reasons having to do with business practices or philosophy. I don't mean to trivialize the importance of such things, but they're just not what I'm looking to discuss right now -- I understand these arguments well already. What I'm looking for are specific technical reasons not
Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? (Score:4, Informative)
Flash on the otherhand is much more open.
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That sounds like a good reason not to select Silverlight if I wanted to deliver some kind of media myself. But I'm looking at this from the perspective of a consumer -- specifically, of a (prospective) user of Netflix's streaming video. Silverlight is already "cross platform" at least to the extent of being supported on Macs as well as Windows, else we wouldn't be having this conversation. Beyond that, why should I, from my narrow perspective, care about how cross platform it is if all I want to do is wa
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If you trust Microsoft not to screw you over, there is no reason to avoid Silverlight. There is no reason to hate Silverlight (the tech) at all, however some might take issue with the strategic purpose of it (which can be *very* important to you as a user).
Personally I think it's an embrace, extend and extinguish move much like IE was in its time - when it becomes prevalent enough, the windows version will get more features and the mac/linux version be left to wither. For the full experience you'll be expec
Re:Reasons to hate Silverlight? (Score:4, Insightful)
I take your point. On the other hand, I don't see the individual Mac (or Linux, etc) user having a whole lot of leverage in this situation. Up until now with Netflix's streaming video, the Windows version hasn't merely had "more features" but rather all the features since Macs haven't been supported at all. And since streaming video is not the primary reason I (or I'd venture to guess most people) subscribe to Netflix, I'm not about to fire Netflix over this lack... which means they're not particularly motivated to fix it.
The counter-argument is that clearly Netflix must perceive some benefit from having their subscribers stream video, else they wouldn't be offering the service at all. But the question as I see it is whether my refusal (and that of some other subset of Mac using Netflix subscribers) to adopt Silverlight and thus the streaming service would make enough of a dent in their overall business strategy to warrant a change in the technology they've adopted. My guess is that it wouldn't.
So I'm not quite sure what the "valuable lesson" is that I'm expected to learn. That I as an individual have very little leverage over ginormous corporations? And that they want to screw me? I learned those ones a long time ago.
Darn, I said I didn't want to discuss business strategies. Oh well.
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So I'm not quite sure what the "valuable lesson" is that I'm expected to learn.
Just that you can be caught out by your choices of technology and a naive trust in (or disregard for) the motives of producers. If you start using the service from Netflix, then in a few years are forced to switch to Windows to continue your subscription for example, or if you save all your documents in word format on your mac, then in five years are forced to switch to Windows to keep reading them properly, you might find a lesson in that.
That I as an individual have very little leverage over ginormous corporations? And that they want to screw me? I learned those ones a long time ago.
Well, given your disregard for the intentions of MS re. Silverlight,
No opt out (Score:2)
You can't opt back out of the beta once you opt in, so caveat emptor. I learned this the hard way after I found out that the Silverlight player doesn't seem to utilize the full-screen video overlay when playing over s-video from my laptop.
Sure, it's silverlight...BUT (Score:2)
All the Silverlight griping aside, I am already watching Dr. Who season 1 on my macbook, and it makes me quite happy. :D
-G
Good & Bad (Score:2)
It's nice to have the option for more content on my Mac Mini HTPC. I primarily use it for Broadcast HDTV via MythTV and DVDs from Netflix. So, this give a whole new source of content.
I have been using it for a few days, with mixed results.
- The quality is not great, and can vary widely. It seems to adapt to your internet connection speed. So, I think my Comcast "Burst then throttle" service screws it up. I often get the message saying needs to re-buffer.
- It's completely browser based. So, no integ
Quality of Silverlight vs hardware? (Score:2)
I have been trying the Mac/Silverlight version, and found the quality to be a bit lacking.
I had been considering buying one of the LG Blueray DVD players, in large part because it supports Netflix streaming.
Has anyone compared both viewing methods? Can I expect better quality via the hardware decoder (LG player or Netflix's Roku box)?
Re:Firefox FTW (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Firefox FTW (Score:5, Funny)
I'm doing it on Firefox 3 right now.
You've got me beat. I've done it on the kitchen table once or twice, and once _almost_ did it on a bus.
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Best part is when you do it near a road with guard rails, so every time a car goes by at night, the lights through the guard rails look like flashing police car headlights.
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Re:Firefox FTW (Score:4, Informative)
Noooo. He means he installed the Silverlight plugin and is watching it natively in Firefox. Y'know, basically what this whole article is about.
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Actually... I did that during the Olympics a few times. (I almost always have at least two different brands of browser open.)
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Why was this modded insightful? Unless you were too lazy to even read the comment he was replying to let alone TFS, let alone TFA, its patently clear that the parents "correction" is incorrect.
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System requirements clearly state IE6 or FF2+. There's no theory about it.
http://www.netflix.com/WiMessage?msg=51 [netflix.com]
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I could never get the IE version to work on any of my systems because (I assume) I'm using an outdated version and have IE so locked up a stripped for security reasons that trying to figure our which setting it doesn't like is absolutely impossible.
Away I go to watch movies at work with the power of Firefox.
Re:hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
And they only pretty much did it because they found out it works easily with Silverlight in Intel based macs only.
Amazing that a company is switching _to_ Silverlight for a cross-platform solution. This is wrong on so many levels.
http://dotancohen.com/heb/wallashops.html [dotancohen.com]
Re:hilarious (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think it is NetFlix's choice to adopt Silverlight. They released a press release to their Mac users before, stating that it is the movie companies (probably MPAA) stipulated which DRM they can use. But, true to their word, they finally are opening Watch Instantly to Mac users. Lets hope that the Linux port of Silverlight gets thrown in the mix too.
I know Microsoft products are unpopular, but sadly, the adage "No one ever got fired for buying (trusting) Microsoft" probably applies here.
Re:hilarious (Score:4, Interesting)
I know Microsoft products are unpopular, but sadly, the adage "No one ever got fired for buying (trusting) Microsoft" probably applies here.
I counter with no one has ever been prosecuted for using Linux. [wikipedia.org]
Enough with the IBM || Microsoft half-truths.
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You know who ELSE never used Microsoft products? That's right...
Re:hilarious (Score:5, Funny)
Hitler?
Re:hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
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while it is an interesting article, I fail to see how your post is relevant to my post and TFA... am I missing something?
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The "no one was ever fired for buying IBM" line as applied to Microsoft is dangerous. I was pointing that out. Not that I'm not an anti-MS sheep or anything (typing on a Microsoft keyboard, though under Ubuntu) however a blanket statement that MS is somehow a safe harbor is far from the truth.
How to use it on Linux (Score:2)
I've been watching Netflix on my Intel (mac) for months now. I just run VirtualBox with windows installed. Works great. Works with Linux too. Of course you have a valid Windows XP or vista Lic but given were talking about a payment service here, the small cost of obtaining any old windows lic if you don't already have one is not really an issue.
Re:How to use it on Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
...Of course you have a valid Windows XP or vista Lic but given were talking about a payment service here, the small cost of obtaining any old windows lic if you don't already have one is not really an issue.
You are wrong; that 'license' is exactly the issue. Why should I have to pay for, install, and maintain another OS, to use a video on-demand service that I already payfor? Is it because they were too lazy and stupid to implement it using an open standard? Or because the mpaa is forcing them too?
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But, true to their word, they finally are opening Watch Instantly to Mac users.
Correction: They're finally opening it up to some Mac users. This solution is for intel Macs only. That's fine if you're assuming people want to use it to see the occasional flick on their laptop, but a fail for those users who have an older Mac as a media center, since a lot of those are old PPC systems.
I have two thoughts about this. First, Netflix should have gone with Flash video which is already in use by sites like Hulu so any DRM issues are bunk. Second, Netflix's selection of movies for live viewing
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I thought this exactly too, its like "hi, we're not going to lock you into windows media player anymore, but we're still going to lock you completely into proprietary windows. whoops!"
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This is wrong on so many levels.
What's really wrong is the level of content available. This service has less movies than TNT on the weekend.
I tried this a few months ago and was very disappointed.
So now you can watch 100 old movies on a MAC....
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I, too, was less than impressed with the online offerings a few short months ago. However, they're really ramping up the content these days. I assume it's to feed those "watch instantly" TV-boxes they're pushing now. You can't sell a movie device without current content. That said, there are new shows and movies popping up every day in the watch instantly section, many from 2007 and 2008. One of my gripes is that they have many later seasons of current shows, but don't have earlier seasons. I was eage
Re:hilarious (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, you would probably be interested to learn that for example imeem is written in C# to be able to run it on both Windows and Linux. Silverlight in my, albeit biased, opinion, is much cleaner and neater than flash. Or WM solution for this case, obviously... MS has too much stigma for what it USED TO do, or what it still does but to significantly lesser extent
I don't see how the imeem reference is relevant. What am I missing?
While I won't go into the pros and cons of Flash, in comparison Silverlight currently runs on less platforms, has lower market market share on the platforms that it does run on, and has no superior DRM model. You can add to that your personal feelings about Microsoft and Adobe.
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It might be because silverlight is already compaitble with all their drm wmv files, not to mention to most companies, Apple and Windows are the most important two platforms.
Obviously those are considerations. Too bad these short-terms goals won out against the longer term goal of true platform independence, rather than "currently works on the platforms we currently want to support".
Re:hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
Hard to get excited when I still can't watch it on my mac (PowerPC) just as it was with the Olympics.
Don't get exited, then. Instead, write to Netflix and let them know that you, and the millions of other Ubuntu, PowerPC, Fedora, and other non-Windows || Intel Mac _still_ cannot use their service. Let them know that they need a cross-platform solution, not a pick-and-choose platform solution. Here is their address:
http://www.netflix.com/ContactUs [netflix.com]
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Great! It is feedback like that that makes projects improve.
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Hah, specialised -- that's right, the platform that can run all Mac software, pretty much all linux/unix software, and all windows software (virtualised, but hey, it's running it). That's specialized! Wait, no, it's not at all.
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Except that Xbox 360s will only stream Netflix if you have a pay-per-month Xbox Live account.
On top of your Netflix subscription.
They sell standalone Netflix streaming boxes for about $100. With no extra monthly fee.
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Unless the user in question has no desire to play games. Initial Xbox 360 investment at $200 plus $50 per year is gonna come right out of the gate more expensive than a $100 purpose built set top box, and will only grow more expensive over time.
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Except that Xbox 360s will only stream Netflix if you have a pay-per-month Xbox Live account.
On top of your Netflix subscription.
They sell standalone Netflix streaming boxes for about $100. With no extra monthly fee.
Damnit, I hate Xbox Live. It feels like you are paying for Steam. So no chance for Netflix on my Xbox if I'm already a Netflix subscriber but not an Xbox Live subscriber?
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I use Mediamall's PlayOn media software.
http://www.themediamall.com/playon [themediamall.com]
It sits on my Windows XP box and serves Netflix and Hulu to my Xbox 360, my PS3, and my PopcornHour box in the bedroom. It costs $30, and works like a god damn champ.
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Besides, have you heard about Autodesk Smoke [autodesk.com]? That's a complete Linux-based online video editing suite.
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Does Shake for Linux get delivered by a naked Natalie Portman or come in a solid gold box or something? The OSX version is $499, and a look around the Apple site doesn't mention why the Linux version is for some reason worth an extra $4,500.
Re:hilarious (Score:5, Interesting)
Both versions, up to Shake 3.0 were $4,999, and originally Shake was a Linux app (hence the very different interface of the OS X version compared to even the esoteric Final Cut Studio apps).
With the release of Shake 4 though, Apple cut the cost of the OS X version to $499, and provided unlimited render licences for that version, while keeping the cost and licence restrictions on the Linux version to "encourage" people to use the OS X version.
They know they can't kill the Linux version off entirely, due to the number of hih end effects houses who are quite happy to have a mixed Linux/Mac environment and don;t want to change out their Shake boxes for Mac Pros, but they want anyone who wants to start up in the field to go all-Mac.
It all may be academic though, since there are whispers of a from-the-ground-up app to replace Shake at some point from inside Apple, to either go alongside Motion, or to replace that too.
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They know they can't kill the Linux version off entirely, due to the number of hih end effects houses who are quite happy to have a mixed Linux/Mac environment and don;t want to change out their Shake boxes for Mac Pros, but they want anyone who wants to start up in the field to go all-Mac.
What, like they couldn't kill off the Windows version of Logic [wikipedia.org]?
I doubt it.
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Aye, it was originally a Linux app in fact, before Apple got hold of it - since the release of Shake 4 though, Apple have been "discouraging" the use of Shake on Linux though, with a huge price cut on the OS X version, and unlimited render licences.
Re:hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
So can you please tell me where I can buy Linux versions of Final Cut Studio, Shake 4, Creative Suite CS, Flix Pro, Sound Studio, Toast, and Sony's XDCAM HD transfer apps please?
I cannot believe that you got modded troll for that. It is true, there are not enough commercial apps available for Linux at the moment. What I wouldn't do for Solidworks on my Ubuntu box!
For Creative Suite, write to these folks:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/contact.html [adobe.com]
For Flix, write here:
http://www.on2.com/index.php?373 [on2.com]
Write to these folks asking about Sound Studio for Linux:
http://www.freeverse.com/support/ [freeverse.com]
This is the address for the people responsible for Toast:
http://www.roxio.com/enu/company/contact.html [roxio.com]
And the infamous Sony:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/contacts.asp [sonycreativesoftware.com]
Please, don't be shy and WRITE TO THEM! If we don't write and let them know that Linux is a viable OS with a strong user base, then they will never port their software to Linux.
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Heh, don't hold your breath on the Sony one - even the Mac version of the software for pulling XDCAM HD clips down off a PD Deck is a bit ropey. It got a lot better with the latest release, but it took them long enough - and that was when they were working hard to increase XDCAM uptake in the industry as a cost effective migration path for HD (alongside HDCAM). you'd think they'd want to make it as attractive as possible for FCS users on the Mac to use the new format.
While the app did work, it was very klud
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Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath. I'm just not buying Sony until it works. I vote with my pocketbook.
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Watch Instantly has progressively gotten better. You should check out the new Starz Play selection. There are some quality titles. I'm actually watching Natural Born Killers right now on my 32inch 720p, fullscreen is approximately the quality of a 1 gig XVID. Certainly not DVD quality... more like a VHS.
Now if only they'd add more Crime Documentaries... (COPS anyone?)
I've also heard rumors that NetFlix watch instantly is coming to XBOX 360... so the move to silverlight is less than suprising.
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1. Selection is horrid.
Now that Mac users are onboard, Brokeback Mountain is being made available ASAP.
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Well, get the Moonlight guys on it :-)
Personally I forsee in the future all us PVR guys can embed both Flash and Silverlight apps that can be controlled with our remotes. I run SageTV, which runs Windows or Linux, and while it can already stream Youtube and Video Podcasts, I can't wait until somebody figures out a way to distribute the rest of the online video world like netflix or whatever does NBC's "The Office" stuff. Right now, you'd pretty much have to s
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Well, considering its officially stated not to be supported on Power PC, what do you expect exactly? What are you going to try next? Install Mac software on a Windows machine?
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The parent poster stated clearly that he or she was installing on an Intel-based mac. I didn't even have to RTFA to catch that part.
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Thats what I get for replying to a post when I just woke up... I had reread it like 5 times originally, and saw "power pc" everytime in the grandparent's post.
All I can say right now is... whoops.
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Ignore my other post, since it seems like I can't read in the morning. That said, do you have Adblock installed?
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