What If Apple Made A Cell Phone And No One Cared? 352
PreacherTom writes "Prudential Equity Group analyst Jesse Tortora penned a note saying that Apple is readying a music phone — and a separate, combination video and music phone. He expects Apple to introduce the devices in January at Macworld, a conference for Mac enthusiasts where the company typically debuts new products. At least one of the phones will offer Wi-Fi connectivity and both will become available in the March quarter of 2007 ... but will anyone care?"
Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Next?
Yet another doom-and-gloom Apple article (Score:5, Interesting)
Where is BusinessWeek's "Zune, yawn" article? Wouldn't that make more sense given Apple's staggering financial success announced this week and their path toward supplanting Gateway as the #3 U.S. computer maker?
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Hell no. In fact people like Dvorak make a career out of it.
Re:Yet another doom-and-gloom Apple article (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
My thoughts exactly. Perhaps there was a bit of a mixup in the submission and what they really meant to say was "What if Microsoft made an digital music player and no one cared?"
Now, I want to see the hands-on with this Apple cellphone!
No Bias (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No Bias (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, when a *cring* Windows fan who doesn't care about cell phones is interested in an article like this you have to assume that the average consumer will be interesting...*hides from linux users*
Re:No Bias (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No Bias (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No Bias (Score:4, Informative)
Why spelling matters! (Score:4, Insightful)
"Peaked", as best fits this sentence, means "having reached its climax; waning". As in, "Her interest in me peaked after I walked to my 1983 VW Diesel Rabbit".
Perhaps what you meant was "piqued"? The meaning here would be "provoked or aroused".
It's not just that spelling makes you look stupid in written communications - in cases such as this, it can actually cause your message to be strongly mis-interpreted!
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Then I realised i was in the Apple section. *ahem*
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Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Insightful)
Last I checked, the iPod was an Apple product-- if their is any other DAP on the market with such broad appeal, I'm pretty much unaware of it. Not that I'm a fanboy, but come on, they own that market.
Along the same lines, why buy an Apple cell phone when you can buy a Nokia phone for less money?
Why would anyone buy an iPod when the can get better and cheaper DAPs from Creative and Sandisk? Marketing, mass appeal, and a loyal fan base. To suggest that an Apple cell phone wouldn't sell is pretty short sighted.
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Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's not a bad theory, it's amazing how they try to get people to pay for things (ringtones, backgrounds, stupid songs/videos) that are freely available if they didn't make it such a pain to put them on the phone.
I just got the Sony Ericsson W810i - only took Cingular about 6 months to finally offer it.
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Interesting)
That depends on your definition of "better." For most people, I suspect "better" means "works with iTunes" or "has a large selection of accessories" or "has a simple interface." In this case, the iPod actually is the best DAP.
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Informative)
But can it play music from the iTunes Music Store?
But can it interface with a car stereo, and have the car's controls work? An iPod can, but every other DAP can't because automakers are standardizing on the iPod's dock connector and control protocol.
But does it include an easy way to find the song you want to play? Can it synchronize its playlists with your desktop jukebox program? Can it use "smart" playlists?
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Who the fuck cares? I never have used it, and I never will.
But can it interface with a car stereo, and have the car's controls work? An iPod can, but every other DAP can't because automakers are standardizing on the iPod's dock connector and control protocol.
Can I afford a car that has this?
But does it include an easy way to find the song you want to play? Can it synchronize i
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Insightful)
Then I bought a mac. I started using iTunes, I went through and reencoded my music as I realized oggs were a waste of my time. iTunes just made all the things I did easy. After a while i thought about getting an iPod too. however I had already ripped over 20GB of music to my hdd and I had gotten nowhere near done with my music collection. I looked around at audio players, and I looked at integrating one with my car. I may have been able to save $20-$30 by getting some no name brand, however most of the other major players at the time weren't offering 60GB players. Kind of sold me on an iPod. The fact that I could hook it up to my car ($95 stereo, $75 adapter and done) made it even better.
The question to me isn't "do i need 60 GB of music with me at all times?" The answer is obviously no. That would take me a month to listen to. It's not that I need it, however when I'm about to go somewhere or whatever I don't want to go "oh shit what do I want to listen to... let me throw this on my mp3 player". Instead I grab my ipod and choose something I want to hear. Or I go on a car trip, and decide to listen to a different band.. no problem, I have it loaded on here. When you have a music collection of over 300 cds it's wonderful to listen to whatever you want, whenever you want. You might call me lazy for not being willing to reload it every time. Sure I am. I also value my time, and don't want to waste it.
Now with that all said, one of the biggest motivaters for getting an iPod was so I wouldn't have to keep so much music on my laptop (instead I kept it on my file server) so I could listen to music in lab. I know it's an expensive external hard drive, but when I'm driving anywhere, or walking or biking, or whatever I definately don't regret it.
Was my iPod expensive? Sure I paid a good chunk of change for it. Do i worry about my battery? no, if it dies I order a kit online for $40 to replace it. Is an iPod for you? No, you obviously don't find it worthwhile, however for those of us who do, it is naive of you to think we buy them only as a status symbol. Maybe some people buy the nanos or shuffles just to have an apple ipod, but most of us who buy the big ones are doing it for ease of use and convenience
Phil
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Right, so an iPod isn't the best player for you. But my point was that it is the best player for some other people, and they have valid reasons for choosing it!
I have no problem with you using a portable CD player if you want; why are you so bent out of shape about other people using iPods? It's none of your concern anyway, so you're just being a meddlesome bigot!
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That's a retarded response and you know it. Put your whole library on it. Then play all the "rock" songs on shuffle. Then, locate that song titled "Aeroplane" where you can't remember the artist name. The iPod goes a long way toward making your music library just as manageable on the go as it is on your computer.
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Informative)
Build up an iTunes collection and you're stuck with Apple players, for life.
OK, it's time again for the Obligatory iTunes Anti-FUD Post.
Remember, kids, iTunes != iTunes Store. If you put your own ripped (or pirated) music into iTunes, THERE IS NO DRM AND NO LOCK-IN. Sorry to shout, but it's amazing how often this point is ignored, misunderstood, or obfuscated, no matter how often it's repeated.
iTunes and DRM only mix when the music is *purchased* from the iTunes Store. Even then, it's trivial for even Joe Sixpack to defeat the DRM if he senses that the end of iTunes is near: burn and rip, or use a hack such as QTFairUse for better quality.
iTunes is perfectly capable of dealing with non-DRM music in any format QuickTime can handle, which includes AAC, MP3, WAV/AIFF and Apple Lossless natively as well as Vorbis and FLAC with plug-ins. (The iPod can't handle the plug-in formats, but if you use Vorbis and FLAC you probably think the iPod is "lame" because its interface isn't confusing enough. [Just teasing!])
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:4, Insightful)
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And I'm fairly sure you're wrong, because I am a counterexample.
I'm a Mac (and Linux) user, and I like iTunes. I like its method of organization, I like the Party Shuffle, and I especially like Smart playlists. The only thing I don't like is its integration with iTMS (I hate DRM), so I just don't use that feature.
Now, when I decided to get a DAP, I had two options: get an iPod,
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Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Funny)
Except I'm fat. Really, really fat. Why doesn't Apple ever put any silhouettes of fat people in those ads, anyway? And I've got an afro wig and I can do the Cabbage Patch as well as the next guy.
Apple needs to let me make a billboard.
I do love you so, Mr. Jobs.
Re:just bought a sandisk today (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Insightful)
Which Dell model, exactly, can you purchase with OS X? Assuming the answer is "none", I think your characterization of the Dell system as "equivalent" is a bit misplaced.
I don't think Nokia makes a phone that seemlessly connects with iTunes, or handles video from iTunes.
There are oodles of people with existing iTunes libraries (some iPod owners, some not) for whom an iTunes phone is a major selling point. Now, if you want to say "why by an Apple phone if a Motorola phone is cheaper", well, do we know that an Apple phone will be cheaper than an otherwise-similarly-equipped Apple-licensed Motorola iTunes phone?
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean like the Mac Pro that costs $1,000 less than the equivalent Dell, doesn't require cash shelled out for antivirus, firewall, and antispyware software, and runs Mac OS X?
Because it's likely the Apple phone won't suck like today's phones do?
These were easy questions, got any others?
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm going to guess you're in the US. What relevance does this have?
You're not qualified to judge "today's phones" if you live in the US. You're behind the times, in most cases a /long way/ behind the times. Two way cellular video calling? The rest of the world has had it for /years/. Broadband speeds, a la EV-DO and beyond? Again, the world has had it for years. 3G? Years.
Have you seen the interface on something /new/, like a Nokia N92? Clue: Nokia and other manufacturers don't overly "care" about the US market. They have to re-engineer the software for their phones for TDMA and all such crap, and given that the rest of the world tends to have a far higher penetration of cellular devices, it's a lower priority. I've seen people boasting about their "new top of the line" phone which, if you go to the .au site of the manufacturer is flagged way down in "Discontinued Products".
That being said, we'll address the other issue. Your complete lack of actual 'evidence' for your opinion. I'll be the first to admit Apple knows UI. Guess what? Building a next generation cellular phone is a bit more than "stick a UI on a two way radio". It's playing massive catchup to companies with 20 years of knowledge building these devices. Nokia used to (still does) make /toilet paper/. They engineered their way into their place now with the expenditure of TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars. And you, you think Jobs will click his fingers and those magic Apple phones will just piss all over Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson, Samsung, etc. I'm impressed at your optimism.
Re:Why pay the Apple premium? (Score:5, Insightful)
1)Usability - Apple is very good at creating user friendly interfaces
2)Simple, streamlined design - Something which very few phones have these days
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I was in mobile phone sales for a short while. I was surpised to find that many people will buy a phone on a higher cost plan than they use to get a phone they percieve to be fashionable. I didn't take any stats, but a significant portion of people will do this, even paying $20/month higher than their call usage. Not surprisingly, mobile phone bills were at the time a leading cause of personal bankruptcy (here in Oz). If there is a
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"MS is about the worse OS there is"
"Stable" means different things to different people.
You don't like windows, and that's
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Wi-fi? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Wi-fi? (Score:5, Interesting)
Exactly what I was thinking. Apple targets the USA aggressively, to the extent that their products often feel like they just don't care about the rest of the world (don't believe me? Check the hold switch on the iPod corded remote; it's upside down everywhere except the USA). The US mobile 'phone market sucks; there is far too much network lock-in for hardware manufacturers to care about it. On the other hand, the USA has a lot of large WiFi deployments, and more are springing up all the time.
If I were in Apple's position, I would release an iPod with 802.11/b/g/n that could download from the music store while mobile and make VoIP calls to iChat (AIM/Jabber) and iPhone users. Maybe offer a service to allow calls to POTS units, but primarily aim it at the IM generation. I suspect there is a huge market consisting of teenagers who can persuade their parents to buy a gadget, but who can't afford calls on a cell-phone as easily.
If it could do some form of mesh networking with ZeroConf person-discovery then this could well be a killer feature (a mesh network over a campus-sized area could work nicely).
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Exactly. In the US, there is no market for a mobile 'phone with WiFi because the customers are the networks. There might be a market for a 'phone that just did WiFi (no GSM, or whatever), because the customers would be individuals. Market it as an iPod/Phone, and people will expect to pay iPod price. With iTMS integration, Apple could even potentially subsidise it based on future music store sales.
Well, (Score:2)
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I don't really care about iPods, but that doesn't sound bad at all. Innovative, no - but maybe it will be competitive or slightly better than other products. Why such the negative attitude?
Maybe someone's planning a reverse Pump-and-Dump? Predict an impending blunder for Apple, watch shares drop, buy shares, wait for Apple to roll out something as addictive to conspicuous consumers as sugar to an 8 year old and then sell when the stock price skies.
Maybe not, maybe he's just having a bad day and his pis
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You must be new here.
i have a more important question (Score:5, Funny)
The fact that this is modded FUNNY makes sense... (Score:3, Insightful)
Newton users (Score:5, Funny)
Kevin Costner knows that answer (Score:5, Insightful)
No not necessiarly (Score:3, Interesting)
Other than looks (m
Just an Music Playing Phone (Score:4, Insightful)
Excuse me, Mr. Analyst, but I suspect you're underestimating Apple.
I think if Apple actually has something in that line coming out it'll surprise you. Yet another music phone isn't radical enough for Steve Jobs, battery life or whatever aside, besides, the ROKR was ho-hum which should say something about what people really want. I wouldn't be suprised to see something clever like combination unit, which merges a cell phone with an iPod, either could be used independently, probably partnering with someone like Motorola to make the phone part to spread the risk (assuming Motorola is willing to give it another shot.) Perhaps it'll also do VoIP in some clever way. Preemptively dropping Apple's shares on such speculation seems a bit rash.
In any event, the iPod is getting on in years, celebrating it's 5th birthday, still going strong, but always needs some little tweak (like the slim and tiny nano) to keep in interesting and trendy. I agree with the analysts regarding an integrated unit with battery concerns and such, since most people do keep a separate mp3 player even when their phone will play tunes. I've got a phone which will play music, but I'd rather not be having to recharge my battery every day. The most likely place for me to listen to tunes is in the vehicle and it'll have a CD/sat. radio with USB to handle that. Taking on a commodity market would be fitting oneself for an albatross.
Right (Score:2)
Actually, according to some people, it hasn't been decided yet.
Yes, no one will care. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would anyone care?
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uh, sorry, I meant cell phone.
Right... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, now that we've established that this guy knows what he's talking about...
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Re:Right... (Score:5, Interesting)
Snore (Score:5, Funny)
Jesse Tortora
who?
What a ridiculous question. (Score:5, Insightful)
Duh.
Click on those ads, people. Cuz that's the only reason this story was even published.
I just don't see it (Score:3, Insightful)
What if? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What if? (Score:5, Funny)
If history is any indication (Score:5, Insightful)
An idea (Score:5, Interesting)
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Willy
Featuritis (Score:2)
Cell phone users are hopeless. Of course they'll care.
Furthermore, you can bet that Apple will get it right where others like Sprint couldn't [joelonsoftware.com].
Personally, I just hope you can use that iPod circular input as a rotary dial!
Once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Once again... (Score:4, Informative)
This is the problem with the US. This phone, as decent as it is, is ANCIENT (in cellular terms) - it was introduced to the rest of the world at the start of 2003, and it's still being sold in the US as a current phone. It's been discontinued elsewhere for nearly 18 months.
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Care? Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
If Apple lets Verizon Wireless (my CSP) or Cingular cripple it (and that's about the only way the Cellular Service Providers will sell it) then it will be just as useless as every other phone out there.
And so, I won't care.
Lots of phones out there that have great specs as announced by the manufactures. And then the phone is crippled in software by the cell service companies, and it's a piece of trash that no one wants. Or, you can buy the uncrippled version for $499 (still with a 2-year contract).
I don't think even Steve Jobs could convince Verizon not to cripple a phone so that it will only accept music through the Verizon cellular data network. Because a phone that isn't so crippled won't need an over-priced data plan, and will lose Verizon profits that they are convinced they deserve.
Sorry, no.
Part of the joy of Apple products that the they control the entire experience. Part of that is that (with some notable exceptions) ongoing costs and hassles are minimized. I have an iPod. I love it. It works great with the iTunes Music Store. You don't *have* to use the iTMS, though. You won't have that option with a Verizon-crippled cellphone.
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How about Apple phones in Europe? (Score:3, Interesting)
If Apple's smart, they'll just go straight to other markets with their nifty new phone, and not even bother selling it to us stupid Americans. Leave us with our crippled and overpriced phones which onl
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Re:Care? Nope (Score:4, Interesting)
It would only make sense for them to provide the entire experience, by starting their own virtual network.
I bet.. (Score:2)
Cell phones these days are absolutely locked down by high prices. If Apple could make a phone with a good design, good specs, etc, that would beat the prices on those other phones..they might have something there.
I don't look forward to paying $200 to replace my three-year-old-phone with the exact same model because the prices are just going up.
They're so cheap so the phone company can offer them for free, but god forbid you buy one
Re:I bet.. (Score:5, Interesting)
That's not how it works.
You (yes you!) are continually paying for phone upgrades, whether you get one or not. Those people who do not upgrade their phone on a regular basis are subsidizing those upgrades for everyone else - the amount that one pays for a service plan is computed, based on the percentage of people who will get phone upgrades, to pay for the subsidization. I'm guessing they guess a little high on that percentage so there's some money left over, and they use it to give out upgrade specials, but it's just a guess.
Regardless, it's not that they're so cheap that the phone company can offer them for free. It's that the phone company buys pallets of them in an unconfigured mode and configures 'em themselves, then handles distribution to their stores themselves, and meanwhile is charging every subscriber on their network for all those phone upgrades. If you don't get a phone upgrade every time you can, then you're just subsidizing someone else's upgrade.
Re:I bet.. (Score:5, Informative)
Every time you upgrade the lock you into a minimum 12 months.. sometimes 18 months. The rental over that period is usually far more than the price difference between the upgrade and the wholesale price of the phone (often more than the retail price) - so you simply pay over the next year.
People who don't upgrade are paying for their upgrade even though they didn't get one - however they can leave for another company whenever they want, which is quite useful.
I can't wait. (Score:3, Interesting)
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Actually, I've been cellphoneless for six months. Somehow I survive. I can't use a cellphone when I drive, I have a phone at work so people can reach me there, I have a phone at home so people can reach me when I'm at home. If I'm somewhere else, they can leave a message and I'll get back to them at my earliest convenience.
I figure I'd wait and see what Apple delivers before I consider getting another one. If Ap
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Welllll... (Score:3, Funny)
Of course people will care (Score:5, Insightful)
With regards to people worrying about Cingular, Verizon, etc. crippling them - I would bet that Apple set themselves up as their own virtual carrier like Virgin did (leasing airtime from Cingular / T-Mobile if they want global compatibility, or from Sprint and Verizon if they want decent broadband speed - not to turn this into a GSM/CDMA flame-war). This way they can have their iTunes store on the phone as well...
Re:Of course people will care (Score:5, Insightful)
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RTFM.
The only thing my phone's manual didn't cover were the service codes & I looked those up on the internets.
Good ol' ass kickin' (Score:5, Funny)
Dumb question (Score:2)
Judging from a few simple facts... (Score:4, Interesting)
Heck, I'd replace my current SLVR for one in a heartbeat, assuming it was a good phone as well as an iPod: the SLVR is a nice phone, but the storage capacity is really limited.
Grains of salt (Score:5, Insightful)
The reasons keep changing, but apparently Apple is going to be crushed by . Sell your Apple stock before it's too late!
Considering the number of analysts who really don't get Apple, the article isn't much of a suprise.
The article even quotes an analyst who thinks Apple's next big thing is selling an Apple computer with Windows preloaded. Here's a hint: Apple is not out to become the next Dell. Apple has their own OS, and its users generally buy Apple to get that OS.
There have been rumors of an Apple phone (not a Motorola or other phone that uses iTunes) for years now. I have difficulty believing that the same company that changed its entire product line from PowerPC to Intel chips in just over a year would take several years to develop a telephone.
I don't mean to discount the complexity of modern phones, of course, but Apple has wireless technology in its Airport lineup, and has embedded experience from the iPod. They have the pieces.
Frankly, it just doesn't add up that Apple would try to enter an extremely competitive market where the margins are so thin.
Let's look at the history of the analyst's wisdom:
1.) Apple has to enter the mobile phone market, or it will be destroyed. (ie. smart phones will replace iPods, and Apple is going to get left behind)
2.) Apple is readying a phone, but it'll be late to market and Apple doesn't know what it's doing.
- Two (that I know of) phones that play iTunes are released; neither are from Apple.
3.) Admit reality, and recognize the faults with theory #1
- According to TFA, playing music isn't something most consumers care about in a phone.
4.) Find a new 'mistake' for Apple: That they must still be readying the iPhone, and it will be a colossal failure.
Apple products come with attention builtin (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't like the PC market where Dell == HP == Gateway == Lenovo and you are buying purely on price or half-baked feature x. Apple has a dedicated fanbase with a common respect for clean design and seamless integration and they know that any product coming out of Cupertino will offer that as a base, plus something that is at once totaly obvious, and completely new (or at least implemented in a sane way).
I guarantee that if Apple announces the iPhone at MacWorld 2007, there will be at least half a million people with their credit-cards out before the next slide in Steve's presentation.
I don't give a damn, but (Score:3, Interesting)
There weren't as many MP3 players on the market before the iPod. Apple made everyone else step up their game and add new features and reduce their prices.
I'm not going to buy one, but thanks for giving us more choices Apple.
LK
Failure in the making (Score:4, Insightful)
If Apple really wants to enter the cell phone business, they should focus on service, rather than hardware, and open the service to compatible brands/models with the processing power to utilize whatever services they plan to offer. One possible use for an Apple-based cellular service, would be to merge ichat support into it. That way, a cell phone could contact a user with VOIP by their ichat/aim user id... or an ichat/aim user could double click on a user to automatically dial their cell phone and initiate an audio chat with that person when the call is answered.
But if Apple goes on to use a closed system with only links to iTMS, I can't see how such a product would succeed. They'd have more luck simply giving the 6G iPod a built in wifi adapter to access itunes music store directly, when it's in range of an open network.
Videoconferencing (Score:5, Insightful)
Actual data (Score:3, Interesting)
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Most professional film editing stations are Macs. Many Flash Designers use Macs. Apple does bill Macs as great for creative work; does Windows ship with something like Garage Band or iWeb? Okay, there is MovieMaker.
That is probably because Adobe has (I think) not released Universal Binaries for most of its