NYC & SF iPod Subway Map Controversy 361
scruffy323 writes "NYC and San Francisco are claiming copyright violations for freely distributed subway maps." From the Wired piece: "More than 9,000 people downloaded the map, which was viewable on either an iPod or an iPod nano, before Bright received a Sept. 14 letter from Lester Freundlich, a senior associate counsel at New York's Metropolitan Transit Authority, saying that Bright had infringed the MTA's copyright and that he needed a license to post the map and to authorize others to download it."
Feh (Score:3, Insightful)
That's not actually a controversy.
Technically, they're right (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, in practice the NYC subway co. already made the map available to the general public, so it's not like there are any losses or damages as a result of this. In fact making the map available on IPod might actually increase the number of subway users. This rises the question, "what's the problem?" Conclusion: NYC subway co., get a life.
what does this have to do with apple? (Score:2, Insightful)
London Underground map too? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do taxes pay for these maps? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Farewell, free country! (Score:2, Insightful)
I've visited the US more than a dozen times in the last 30 years. The idea that it's just an illusion of freedom came to me in the late 1970s and has become more & more obvious as time goes by. What saddens me is few living there see it too.
I grew up in NYC (Score:5, Insightful)
A downloadable map makes a world of sense, and frankly I cannot understand just WHAT about a subway system map needs copyright protection? Is there some subway map counterfeiting operation out there? Does the system stand to lose ridership and money as a consequence of people being able to find their way around?
In summary, I consider this lawsuit to be insane and unnecessary. Noone but the lawyers will benefi.. Oh, yes, that's right.
Re:Farewell, free country! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Technically, they're right (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I believe maps should have their own subsection within Intellectual Property laws. People do need an incentive to make them generally, but with aerial photographs, this is getting easier and easier as time goes on. Blueprinted building and track ways makes this even more trivial, and once you get down to it, a map is just a graphical representation of the factual geography of a location. I believe the subway company could do better to just pick up a few advertising contracts, brand the maps with advertising, and release under the Creative Commons.
However, based on the current corporate mindset around adapting to technology and kneejerk reactions to the words "file-sharing" this sort of idea is probably long off.
Re:Do taxes pay for these maps? (Score:3, Insightful)
Although I do not like MTA (Score:3, Insightful)
(hint* pay extra attention to the last part.)
from http://www.mta.info/sitehtml/mtacopy.htm [mta.info]
No part of this program, product, software, or item, including the look or feel of the program, product, software, or item may be reproduced in any form or by any electronic or mechanical means, including the use of information storage and retrieval systems, without the express written permission of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (or other appropriate corporate entity). This prohibition against unlawful or unauthorized reproduction is intended to include all U.S. domestic use as well as protections afforded under any international forum or law, including, but not limited to G.A.T.T.
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In short, I think, all he had to do was just post his subway map as his suggestion and it could have easily bypassed this whole mess.
Since he seems to placed himself as sole publisher of this "unique" map as in claiming the map as "his own", he just opened himself with can of worm. Follow this;
from http://www.ipodsubwaymaps.com/about.php [ipodsubwaymaps.com]
So what's this all about?
Simply put, I decided that it'd be pretty cool to build this website so you can put subway maps onto your iPod Photo. As I write this, I've only got one city up so far -- well, almost. I skipped Staten Island. Do people actually ride that subway?
Eventually I'd like to open the site up to allow other visitors to submit their own maps. One step at a time, though.
Is this all just some blatant self-promotion?
Is all of it? Of course not. Is some of it? Sure! I really thought the idea of putting my subway map onto my iPod was cool. Why should I keep it all to myself? If it's helpful to me, then why not to the rest of you?
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All he had to do
Correct informaction is the case (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sue away! (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps the transit authority wants to make sure that all sources of the information are kept up to date. If they let anyone distribute it they can't be sure people will have an up to date map. If they insist people licence it then at least they can control this.
There are other potential problems as well. They simply avoid any issues by clamping down on all copying with no exceptions.
Re:It is kind of a grey area... (Score:2, Insightful)
Bingo. When public ifrastructure services are relegated to market driven private interests, some degree of public ownership rights must be maintained. If the subway owners want to sell private property, they should do so in the private domain, on their own and without tax funded investment.
Re:Feh (Score:3, Insightful)
A taxpayer funded service (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Farewell, free country! (Score:1, Insightful)
Unless you were not a white male.
Re:Farewell, free country! (Score:5, Insightful)
What the fuck are you talking about? Or are you just babbling the slashdot group think to get your ass modded up? (+1 Insightful as of posting this, so he aint being very successful).
America had the ability for Congress to enact copyright law in it's Constitution. You know, the piece of paper that says what America can and can't do. It was completed in 1787, 11 years after the United States of America was first formed (sorta. See here for more details.) It took effect two years later. This power was first exercised in 1790, only 1 year after the Constitution was placed into effect. Here's a small quote from [wikipedia.org]this article [wikipedia.org] which you might find enlightening. Emphasis mine: Now while the term limit has been increased dramatically, that isn't the issue here (we're not talking about maps that are over 14 years old are we?). So don't give me that bullshit about this being another example of copyright "thing" getting worse and worse. Unless you were talking about the US being a free country before 1790 of course.
Re:Feh (Score:1, Insightful)
> That's not actually a controversy.
Yes, good point. Though I'm not certain I agree with _why_ this is not a controversial issue. Not that I'm being clear in my reply, either...
Now, for what really matters: I don't know American law (I mean, US law, since America is a continent and no country should take hold of this name), but in my country a public place is, well, public, and everyone is entitled to make photos or drawings or maps or sketches etc.
Maybe it's not a public place after all?
For the love of... (Score:2, Insightful)
MOD PARENT UP (Score:3, Insightful)
US Government Workers Can't Copyright Things (Score:2, Insightful)
http://www.cendi.gov/publications/04-8copyright.h
I don't know about state or local agencies like the transit authorities, but it would seem to make sense that they shouldn't be allowed to copyright their materials either. The same principle is at stake. The taxpayers pay for the creation of the work so the taxpayers should share ownership.
Re:Technically, they're right (Score:4, Insightful)
As far as I know, all the Underground related items are licenced by LT, so they probably enforce copyright issues.
However, since they also licence the use of the map in diaries and such, then the cost of a licence is probably not too high.
The Ordnance Survey in the UK has a full page devoted to copyright issues [ordnancesurvey.co.uk], which indicates that, for some uses, the cost for reproduction may simply be an acknowledgement of the original copyright owner.
Re:Technically, they're wrong (Score:1, Insightful)
This is the same as a company printing a book that's in the public domain, yet still retaining copyright. For THAT PARTICULAR EDITION they hold the copyright. You can create your own, but you can't copy theirs.
Re:Feh (Score:5, Insightful)
The only beneficiary of copyright in this instance is some petty bureaucrat who can claim his/her job is important to the public weal. The public "servant's" next step will be to ask for an increase in funding so he can hire his/her wife/husband/son/daughter/nephew/... to reformat the maps to meet this new "public demand" for public information.
I feh on your feh and whomever ordered the cease and desist to be written in the first place.
RTFA (Score:2, Insightful)
The maps are not formatted for any other mp3 player.
Apple makes the iPod.
Therefore, this is an Apple story.
Re:Technically, they're right (Score:5, Insightful)
This doesn't make any sense because making the map available to people in another format is a public good being performed by a private citizen. The MTA is actually hurting citizens of New York by imposing this undue burden on this fellow. There is really no defense for such behavior.
Re:Feh (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Feh (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Feh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Feh (Score:3, Insightful)
You're an illiterate. His argument is that the maps were commissioned by a public agency, using the people's funds , likely as a work-for-hire , and should therefore be released to the public domain.
Re:Yes, but... (Score:1, Insightful)
In some places, the "ones in power" will openly tell you that you better comply with their policies or you'll get your arse handed to yourself. In other places, nobody says anything, and should you fail to comply, you'll get whisked away in the night never to be seen again. And in other places, everybody tells you that you are free to do as you please and dissent however you please. Should you do so, however, you'll get slapped down with whatever is necessary to keep you quiet.
There is no freedom, there is only tolerance. And even that runs out. This can be a byproduct of living in a crowded society (I'm no anthropologist, mind you) so it might be unavoidable.
Where is the better place to live? That depends on your personal preferences. If you chose to emigrate from your country, do it because of work oportunities ot better living conditions or because you like the weather better or you find the language sexy... But don't fool yourself thinking you are going to find "freedom".