Apple CFO Gives Info on Company Direction 418
osViews.com writes "Mac World is reporting a recent talk given by Apple's Chief Financial Officer (Peter Oppenheimer) at the Goldman Sachs Technology Investment Symposium. The article illustrates several things about about Apple's business plan, much of which is totally new information about the company's current and future direction. Here's the nutshell summary: iPod "Halo" effect is causing some Windows switchers, little demand for satellite radio/iPod integration, iPod shuffle margins below HD ipods, happy with rate of growth - no plans to license OS X, margins on Mac mini equal to eMac (both below corporate average), retail store to expand to 125, no plans for media center PC - prefers to stream multimedia to TV from primary computer over wireless network, no video for iPod, portable media centers a failure."
great submission! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:great submission! (Score:5, Funny)
It'll be posted again within the next week or so, don't worry.
Re:great submission! (Score:2)
That was me. =)
Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Interesting)
So for $189 you have a base station, streaming music, streaming video, a print server, and no need for another computer.
Any bets on whether we'll see something like this soon?
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
If too many Apple fans already have a G3 or G4 tower laying around that has been obseleted by a more powerful Apple then they probably would hook that computer up instead of this one. Even an iMac could be integrated into an AV cabinet using a "TV View" or other VGA to NTSC device, or people could upgrade to something nicer like a TV with RGB inputs or digital. If too many people have other fairly easy options then Apple won't sell enough of these "Express 2" devices to pay off the development costs, let alone get into profit.
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Interesting)
What I am describing is NOT a PC.
Take that old G3 or G4, and have it running iTunes. Equip it with a $60 wifi card.
Take the new Airport Express 2 and hook it up to the TV.
Stream from the computer to the TV; build in 20ft bluetooth into the Airport Express to enable a wireless keyboard and mouse. Play DVDs, music, and other content on the TV, sans PC.
Look up the Airport Express [apple.com] because I don't think you understand what I'm talking about here.
A $189 device! Not a PC at all!
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
I think many households are still single computer; and those with two computers, one is for kids and one is for parents, and the parents are those that have modems, 15" screens, and the original Pentium processor. At least that's what I've seen at my a
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
There's this device called a "TV View" that converts VGA to NTSC, as I've alrea
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
Even for those people that are OK with the idea, most desktop computers have too much fan noise to be used for the purpose.
You go with your idea. It's just the thing that geeks do. I might consider doing it myself. But recognise that you and I are in the tiny minority.
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
This is about the possibility of streaming multimedia using an ordinary looking remote control and satelite/cable/PVR type UI on the TV. It's about the possibilities of selling television programmes and movies like songs are sold on iTunes now. And to have a central PVR that all the TVs in the house can access like
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
Also, 'streaming over wi-fi' is something that will most certainly produce the MIGO effect to Mrs Non-Geek. She has no idea what it is and, worse, is not interested in the gory details of how to set it up. You're trying to sell an idea to the wrong audience - that is, if t's a one piece kit that's been set up by the manufacturer, she might buy it;
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
It can also act as a front end to mythtv.
The problem with the macs is not the front end, it's the back end. How do you get your mac to record the TV signal without spending a bundle bundle and how do you run your cable from the living room to your office.
If the apple wireless device you mentioned could also encode video and stream it back to the PC then you'd have something. Even then I doub
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
These data rates are clearly feasible on a decent wireless network, especially when MIMO comes around.
Still, there are real quality of service issues. It would annoy me to not have a program tivoed because a neighbor broke their access point and is jamming the
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
Or $15 a month!
That's the back end solution I'm sure Apple will find.
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2, Funny)
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the next version of OS X will be codenamed LYGER.
http://returnself.com/blog/
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Funny)
That would be sweet.
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
Just hope that Disney doesn't buy Apple, or it'll be called That Darn Cat.
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Informative)
Second, such a device would require a dedicated AVC decoder chip, which would push the price range up into at least the $400 range. Mark my words, when it debuts at $399, every armchair CEO in the world is going to bitch about the price.
Finally, what's the point of building a print server into a device that's meant to plug into your television? Anybody who wants to plug a printer into a wireless network can already buy either an AirPort Extreme base station or an AirPort Express, or any number of third-party wireless products.
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
It would be silly if HDMI didn't carry the analog signal as well.
Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (Score:2)
I also speculated that Apple might offer a downloadable movie service. Even if you have to start the download 1/2 an hour early to let it buffer, that's still better than going to Blockbuster.
The bandwidth costs would be hefty for Apple, and having some kind of p2p thing doesn't seem like their style even if they made it seamless a
In other words... (Score:3, Interesting)
As much as I'd like Apple to diversify and build more products suitable to my needs, a 17" wide "pizza box" of an entertainment center computer isn't very likely and probably wouldn't sell well enough to pay off development costs. I'd buy one if it were less than $800, but the odds of that are small.
Re:In other words... (Score:2)
I just don't get this (Score:5, Funny)
Something is seriously wrong with us as consumers if we are so reordering our world for such a mediocre FPS.
Re:I just don't get this (Score:2)
How do you measure success?!
It relative terms, it means Halo alone (arguably the only good game the XBox has ever had relative to the better games of the PS2) has got enough people hooked on the XBox
Re:I just don't get this (Score:3, Informative)
Mac Mini good for college kids? (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple is very good at marketing perceived value (iMac, iPod, etc.) as opposed to embedded value (the way Microsoft pushes most of their products). I'd say that perceived value is what matters a lot in the impressionable minds of young students.
Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny how the Apple exec didn't say that. I'm guessing the main markets for the Mini are (in this order):
1) People who would otherwise buy eMacs (schools, etc)
2) People with older G3 Macs that are looking for a cheap upgrade
3) People with newer Macs that want a second machine
4) Switchers or PC users who are Mac Curious.
5) New computer users
This is based on the historical trend that most Mac sales tend to go to exi
Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (Score:5, Informative)
When the original Bondi Blue iMac was first shipping, Apple sat down with their education customers and asked, "What can we do to this computer to make it more suitable for your needs?" They were given some very specific answers. The result was the eMac. In fact, when the eMac was first released, it wasn't even available to the general public. Only schools could buy it.
Now any EDU customer with their brain screwed on is going to figure out they can save ~$200 (25%!) per machine by going with 3rd Party monitors and keyboards.
The added cost would far outweigh. Just look at the simplest possible side-effect: You'd be doubling the number of electrical outlets you need. Doubling it. That's huge. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Procurement costs alone would be gigantic.
Not to mention the security problems. The customers would have to spend a fortune purchasing and installing security equipment to tie down each and every one of those little computers. Practically speaking, nobody can steal an eMac. It's big and bulky and impossible to conceal. Stealing a mini would be child's play
Very few Mac users want more Macs???
Yes. There are about 40 million individual, non-business Mac owners out there. Of that number, fewer than one percent respond that they own more than one Mac. Of those, nine out of ten own one Mac desktop and one Mac laptop. When asked, Apple customers consistently respond that they are not interested in purchasing additional computers. Market research trumps anecdotal evidence every time.
As for "switchers", my guess is 20% of sales tops.
Fully one out of every two Mac sales during Q42004 was made to a customer who self-identified as a Windows user.
We don't have to guess at this stuff. We have actual data.
Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (Score:3, Insightful)
Fully one out of every two Mac sales during Q42004 was made to a customer who self-identified as a Windows user
That was Apple Stores retail only. I don't think they've stated a total breakd
eMacs and education (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple even offers a whole package with a rolling cart full of iBooks and power strips to recharge their batteries as they sit in the cart, etc. It's sort of a "mobile computer lab".
The iBooks are fairly inexpensive, and can be doled out as-needed to students to use right at their desks - instead of requiring an ac
Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (Score:3, Insightful)
Who's "we"? Where did you get this data?
Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (Score:5, Insightful)
I am a college student, and I bought my "good for college students" Mac more than a year before anyone had even heard of the Mini! Saying "the Mini is a good value" is good, but saying it's the only Apple with good value is just FUD.
Indeed (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, I compared two machines, a 20" iMac and a dual 2.5GHz G5. The iMac was there because they wanted to see a budget range computer, and the dual G5 because they claimed AMD was faster.
The rules were pretty simple, configure a roughly similar machine at newegg and compare the price to apple's. Compone
Re:Indeed (Score:3, Insightful)
You consider the 20" iMac, which costs $1,899, a budget computer?!? And then you turn around and wonder why people claim Apple computers are more expensive?
Here is some news for you, most people in the PC world would consider a budget computer something that is $500-$600 or less. And that is with a monitor, keyboard
This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't buy that Apple will buy Tivo, but I can see them creating a Tivo-like device with these abilities:
DVR with free remote control service (why free? wait a second)
Ties right into the iTunes Movie store.
Right, Movie store. Imagine Jobs going to the MPAA and saying "Hey, remember all the problems the RIAA had with downloading? Lawsuits didn't help enough - but now we have legal music, and people are buying music online, and look how many songs I've sold.
"Join with me, and we can end this pointless conflict, and bring order to - *cough*, I mean, we can sell movies."
The PC/Mac will still be the hub - use iTunes to buy music, or buy a movie. You can put either on a new iPod, but for the movies, the iView (just a name I threw in) will be the best way.
Want to watch a movie? Forget Netflix - just use the iTunes store. How about a documentary (independent movie makers who have limited releases would love this - what if you could pick up a documentary for $10, and around 50,000 people all wanted to - now that little indie project just broke even).
Miss a TV show? Why DVR it (though you have that power) when you can go to your computer, type "Battlestar" or "Babylon" to get the entire current archives (including commercial), and for $3 (or $20 for the entire season), you can watch your movies *now* (or, with broadband and figuring about 300 MB per 30 minutes, about 30 minutes or so).
The biggest thing of this is what it turns Apple into. With the iPod and the iTunes Music store, apple is moving away from hardware systems, and going towards hardware accessories and services. Eventually, I can see a Linux client - but in the end, Apple won't care what you run as long as you buy an iPod and use their iTunes store for movies and music - they still make money (though they'll still tell you a Mac will work better, and as the services do well they'll sell more Macs along the way).
Anyway, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (Score:2)
Bingo bango bongo (Score:5, Interesting)
A column not too long ago (don't ask me to recall who or when or where) discussed this sort of thing in light of sites like "Homestar Runner". The case was that this is the future of video entertainment -- visit the show's web site and download and watch any episode you like, in any order, at any time, rather than wait for your favorite episode to reach syndication or buy the whole season on DVD.
The bandwidth, I think, is still the biggest problem, but that's just a matter of time and R&D. And the difference in quality from downloadable video vs. HDTV will, like the difference between MP3 and CD quality audio, keep the downloadable format from completely replacing TV broadcasts or DVD sales.
All we (and Apple) need is the device to do it, at a price point people can afford. That too is a matter of time -- iPods arrived costing, what, $400? $500? Now you can get a Mini for $200 and a Shuffle for even less.
I think Apple would like to sell just what it described in the article: a program that lets you download and view video on your computer, but supplemented by a small remote-controlled set-top device that streams it wirelessly to your television set, a la Airport Express. Video on an iPod-sized device is impractical by any measure, but video on your television set is a given -- but it has to be as easy to use as a DVD player. Fortunately, that sort of ease of use is Apple's specialty.
I perceive this as a certainty, not a possibility -- it's just a matter of when.
Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (Score:2)
Unless they were going to use a modified TiVO to act like a video airport-express to stream video to the TV. At least that was the first thing I thought [slashdot.org] when I heard the rumor about Apple buying TiVO. It's easier and faster to buy existing tech and modify it for your purposes than to create from scratch, and sometimes cheaper, too.
Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (Score:2)
Damn! (Score:2)
Well, great minds think alike - and since you're a Coward, here's the link to the article that talks about the same kind of thing I did:
http://www.shapeofdays.com/2005/01/the_movie_stor
I Switched (Score:5, Interesting)
Used to like Apple, moved to PC for customizability/etc (in mid 90s). Never considered moving back because the more I learned, the more obviously out of date the Mac OS was. Then I learned Linux and fell in love with Unix. Add to that the hate and distrust I've gained in MS and I was ready to jump ship (and I knew it wouldn't be too hard for me, unlike some people). Linux didn't seem "there", I wanted something more mainstream. When OS X came around (and I got to try it on my brother's PB) I really liked it, and started following it. I got an iPod, which did serve to remind me of Apple's quality. Then when my current computer (a Dell laptop that served me well for 4+ years) became too slow for my needs I waited until new PowerBooks were announced and I bought one. The whole (longer) story is in the site linked to in my sig.
So as for "the halo effect", I'm not so sure. It might happen for some people. I used to love Apple so I was really just finding them again. And even without the iPod I would have switched because of OS X. I have three observations on all of this. First is that iTunes really showed me how nice Apple software was these days (iTunes on Windows was the first Apple program I'd used since leaving my old LC II in about 95). Second was if OS X was available on a PC (as some want it, and as some other companies have been asking Apple) I doubt I would have switched (why switch processor architectures when you don't have to?). And third, I had been wanting a Mac to try OS X on for the last few years, but even used Macs were expensive (for what you got). Had the Mini been available 2 years go (the equivelent kind of computer, at that price point, not neccessisarily that size) I would have bought one as fast as I could and I may have switched earlier.
I'm not the "typical" switcher (someone relativly new to computers and raised on Wintel that went to Apple) since I'm a power user (used the OS 7 back in the day, Linux, most flavors of Windows, etc); but I switched and I am VERY happy with my new little Mac. Next step: evangilizing when people ask me about what to buy for their first computer!
Re:I Switched (Score:2)
And then I tried Linux.
I fell in love with the UNIX philosophy and the command-line, started noticing how much of a horrible heap of shit Windows is (and how evil Microsoft is), and stopped using Windows entirely.
But then I realised that, despite having a lot of fun, Linux wasn't perfect either -- I was spending a lot of my time assembling my OS, instead of u
Re:I Switched (Score:2)
But as I said as I learned more the want to configure and mess with things brought me to Windows (and later to Linux).
As for Linux, I agree. I love the OS and it's fun, but I wanted something with that UNIXy goodness that "just worked". I don't mind searching for
switchers (Score:4, Interesting)
I can confirm that anecdotally. Last night I got a call from my uncle and my cousin the college student. She has yet another broken Windows laptop (it'll cost several hundred bucks to fix it), and they wanted the family geek's advice on what kind of computer to get to replace it. Without me even having to suggest it, she (an iPod owner) had already been looking at Apples. So I just steered them toward the 12" iBook with AppleCare. Talking to her, I added that it'd match her iPod; to him, I explained that it was the best bang for the buck of the Apple line, and AppleCare would be cheaper than any repairs that might be needed.
Re:switchers (Score:4, Insightful)
they wanted the family geek's advice on what kind of computer to get to replace it.
Yes, I think that's how most people decide to buy computers - word of mouth from trusted friends & family.
Lucky for her (and Apple), you're obviously a Mac enthusiast, but 97% of the market is not, and will continue to advise people to get what THEY know.
(Most of my computer using relatives know nothing about Macs, just that they can't stand them because they only have one mouse button, don't have any software, no one uses them at work, and are too expensive, blah, blah, blah. Guess what most of my extended family uses? Windows...)
I guess that's why us Apple fan(atic)s get so annoyingly evangelical: we have to get our 2% voices heard about the 97% louder voices.
No media center PC? (Score:3, Interesting)
Ya, just add a video chip to Airport Express... (Score:3, Insightful)
ipTV? (Score:2, Interesting)
with enough viewers (advertisers will love the registered hits stats) we might see advertising dollars going to some nice startups of whatever kind -- a nice departure from what the networks and cable companies have set up
Rare insight from CFO helpful (Score:5, Interesting)
(1) Usually it is Jobs that announces any sort of strategy or "feelings" Apple may have on a technology. This helps investors feel like someoen other than the CEO is running the ship.
(2) With iPod obviously so huge, it is important to know if Apple is seeing itself as a music playrer company or what. Also, with TIVO rumors abounding, it is important for Apple to stake out their position on the DVR battle field.
(3) Stating the intent of the Mac mini. Obviously people are seeing cool applications for the Mac mini and as the CFO said, some people will try to use it as a home media PC, but he clearly states that it isn't that which helps to determine what the thing IS - a Windows Switcher PC.
(4) A glimp into Apple's crystal ball. It is interesting how he proclaimed the death of the personal video players. Jobs has said this before but with people trying to make the iPod Photo into a video player, it is interesting to hear another cheif reiterate the position.
(5) Points 3 (Mac mini not a PVR) and 4 (iPod Video not in the future) help us to see Apple's implementation of the Digital Hub more clearly. At home, the Mac becomes a dual purposed iLife Workstation as well as a media server. Using products like AirTunes to stream audio around the house and one day perhaps AirFlicks (FireFlicks?) to deliver a 21st century family slideshow, streaming video from DVD, or even PVR style recordings.
Re:Rare insight from CFO helpful (Score:3, Interesting)
iTunes, of course, can stream lossless audio over a wireless network to computers or dedicated devices (AirPort Express.) It can do this using MP3s as the source, running in the background as other applciations are used.
To make this work, we'd need a codec capable of carrying high-quality video at 802.11g speeds (easy enough, already done) and a computer capable of transcoding it on the fly, in the background.
Maybe a dual-processor G5 could handle this load, or a futu
Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Interesting)
If anything I would have thought their intensely secretive nature would kill them.
Their iPod and iTunes products are exactly how they are expanding to the PC world.
Their mini is exactly how the PC world will get OS X.
If OS X is the only real desktop alternative, nothing is stopping people from buying Macs you know.
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Insightful)
And the only thing that's stopping some people from buying Macs isn't the price point or the applications, it's the games.
Feel free to spout off the list of everything with Mac support, and realize that Painkiller, System Shock, GTA, Half-Life, Half-Life 2 (and by extent Steam, CCS, etc) and a shitload of other games aren't available. And several Mac ports have been gutted on the way over- it's an old example, but Baldur's Gate for the Mac is missing multiplayer and any character customization capability.
There's a large chunk of the vocal PC userbase who use the thing as glorified nintendo- it's really (imo) the ONLY area where the PC has any kind of advantage over the Mac.
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:2)
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:3, Interesting)
How can you say that their target audience is ZERO gamers? It is the single largest market underneath word processing in the entire PC software industry. If they don't target gamers you could have fooled me when steve jobbs is ALWAYS demoing futuristic 3d games on the powermac G5.
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:2)
The only way in which that might be true is if you limit Apple's "target customers" to mean their "current customers", and then I would only say it's true that many/most of Apple's current customers don't play a lot of games on their Apples, and that only because there aren't loads of computer games for OSX.
However, insofar as Apple's "target customers" are everyone (because you can't honestly tell me that Apple wouldn't be ha
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:3, Insightful)
Most people do not play computer games. Okay? I don't care how big the industry is in dollars. As a fraction of the potential customer base, people who play computer games just don't count. There aren't enough of them.
Apple's key demographic is young, professional parents. These folks just don't play computer games. Every penny Apple might spend trying to woo computer game makers to port to their platform would e
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's be conservative and call it a 100 Million.
That means 92 percent DO NOT play one of the most populare games out today.
A clear majority, even if you let the "other party" count the votes.
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to play tons of PC games, but recently there have been very few that I have been interested in. I want to play Pirates!, HL2, and Doom 3. That's basically it. Pirates! will get ported (I'm guessing, but it's not that important), Doom 3 has gone gold (comes out the 15th of next month, I think), and HL2... well I'll play that on my sister's PC.
Consoles provide me with about all the gaming I want. If it's a good enough game, it will get ported (and I don't mind the extra time it will take to get to the Mac). Very few games remain PC only forever.
For most people, games are not a good reason to cling to PCs, in my expiriance. And that's not counting people like my mom, who only play web games (like PopCap's) anyway.
Re:Pirates! is emulated (Score:3, Interesting)
Games running "on" the Mac mini (Score:3, Funny)
There's a large chunk of the vocal PC userbase who use the thing as glorified nintendo- it's really (imo) the ONLY area where the PC has any kind of advantage over the Mac.
The Mac mini is just the right size to fit a GameCube on top of it [mac.com]. The only thing keeping Macs from having a lot of games running "on" it :) is that very few consumer 17" monitors can display both Mac mini's 768p DVI/VGA output and the GameCube's 480i S-video output (the component cable is nearly unavailable, and newer Cubes don't ev
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:4, Interesting)
My younger sister wants to buy a laptop and is seriously considering an Apple (no "halo effect", just word of mouth). She asked me about games and initially I responded with a comment similar to yours - there aren't many games available for Mac.
However, I actually bothered to check whether I was correct and went to apple.com. As you can see for yourself, the quantity and quality of available games is more than satisfactory. Many bestselling games are available in all possible genres. While this may not be enough for me (I'd like to play all good FPS games on top graphics settings with a relatively new graphics card from ATi/nVidia), there are definitely enough games on Apple for a casual gamer.
My sister doesn't need to play all PC games and she doesn't care for particular titles/franchises. If she can get 5-10 titles per year, that would probably be enough.
and one for you (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:4, Informative)
I thought the cheapest 6"x6"x2" PC was $900? That's more like 50% more expensive than a Mac. Just the case, alone, at Cappuccino PC is $379!
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:2)
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Insightful)
Where can you get a $499 PC with:
CD-RW
DVD-ROM
Firewire
non integrated, non shared 32mb video (ATI or NVIDIA)
And with software, to boot:
Movie making
DVD making
Music making
Photo album
Yes, all that software exists. Yes all that hardware exists. None, to my knowledge, come in kit that's $499. For $349 you can get a PC without CD-RW and with shared video ram and integrated video. For $649 you can get the video+CD-RW and DVD.
Likewise software; for $699 or more, you get the movie making software, but for bundles of $499? You get Quicken or Windows XP Home and Norton Antivirus.
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Informative)
Anyway, even without taking software into account (By Apple's account, it's at least $80 worth), the Compaq is still $509.99 after the mail in rebate. This is with 40gb, 256mb, Windows XP Home, 1.8GHz CPU, CD-RW/DVD, and the NVIDIA 5200XT.
The only 'benefit' is that, out of the box, the PC may be faster, while out of the box the Mac will do more:
Edit videos
Make music
Make DVDs
Organize photos
If you don't apply the rebate, the PC costs $559.99. What kind of math were you taught where $559.99 $499?
Even worse, if you do want firewire, it seems the only way to get it is with the Creative soundcard, which bumps the price up to $609.99!
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Informative)
When you equip a PC with the exact same components in hardware and software as that which come standard on a Mac... the PC always comes out to be more expensive.
people misunderstand this because... with a PC, you can buy less and spend less. That does not make the PC less expensive... though it does make it more configurable... at least at the origional buying stage.
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:5, Insightful)
At this point, every geek I know (hardly a scientific sample, I know) who used to build their own unix/ linux boxes has now bought a powerbook. Eventually they just got tired of fooling with something that was going to be their primary machine (plus BSD tends to be a pain on laptops).
I know... I'm getting flamed for this one.
Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (Score:3, Interesting)
I think this phenomenon has a lot to do with maturity as well. When someone is 16-21 building a computer from scratch, with all the bells and whistles, customized cabling and cooling, etc. is a really cool learning experience. However, it gets to a point where you've been there and done that, and just want something that works.
That said, if I were still a PC user
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:5, Informative)
----------
Look, you guys just can't get it through your heads that the reason why OS X works so well is because it runs on such a limited pool of hardware-- this allows the engineers coding OS X to make assumptions THAT CANNOT BE MADE in the x86 world, where a machine could be using one of thousands of motherboards, network cards, graphics cards, sound cards, etc. Windows developers have to code for the lowest common denominator. OS X developers code for specific hardware. Even the version of NeXTStep that ran on Intel hardware ran on a tiny subset of the then-available PC hardware. If your CD-ROM drive and motherboard weren't on the "supported hardware" list that came with NeXTStep, you were SOL.
That little fantasy you all have of buying "Mac OS X for x86", running it on some homebuilt shitbox you cobbled together from spare parts, and having it work as well as a G5 runs Panther today will NEVER come to pass. Microsoft has spent twenty years and untold millions trying to achieve that goal, and they still have quite a way to go.
Do you think Jobs could just snap his fingers one day and a few months later have a product on the shelves that would run perfectly on every PC capable of running XP today? It's impossible. And even if it were possible, you wouldn't buy it. Why? Because Apple uses their software to sell their hardware, so a copy of OS X for x86 would have to be priced to ease the pain of a lost hardware sale-- you'd either do without it and bitterly bitch about the price here on
~Philly
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:2)
Every time I've read your OS X on x86 post that's the line that always makes me laugh; because that's the whole point.
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:5, Informative)
Say, for argument's sake, that Mac OS X 10.5 came out for Pentium/Athlon PC. You buy it, install it, presto. Now, you want to run Photoshop. OOH, which do you install? Photoshop for Mac OS X? No, it's compiled for PowerPC. Photoshop for Windows? No, it's compiled for Windows. You would need to buy a special Photoshop for OSX/x86, a third option.
Basically, when you put aside the software pirates (99% of Slashdot users who use Photoshop) and the rich artist/musician types (who would buy the Mac hardware anyway), OS X for x86 would be a software nightmare. For corporations, it would be a software investment crash. You can't use your legally owned Windows software on it. You also can't use your legally owned OSX PowerPC software. It just would be a failure.
The only reason Linux works on multiple platforms is because 99% of its software is open-source and can therefor be compiled for the installed architecture when needed. When you get to the prorpietary stuff, like Photoshop, it becomes a nightmare.
If you need a Linux example, look at Macromedia Flash (player) and VMware Workstatioin. Heck, even look at official NVidia drivers. Try and get those for SPARC or PowerPC Linux (or any non-x86 Linux). You can't. Now, imagine all the software for your operating system in the Flash/VMware situation. You go to buy Photoshop for OSX only to realize it's coimpiled only for PowerPC.
The only way it could work is if Adobe, Macromedia, Apple, even Microsoft (Office 2004 for Mac) needs to compile an x86 version of all its Mac OS X software and then recall all discs that only contain the PowerPC software. It would be a financial nightmare, for the consumer and the manufacturer. If you want a living example of the whole situation, look at the "64-bit" Windows XP for Itanium, or hell even Solaris.
Of course, 99% of Slashdotters who use Windows XP run a pirated copy, with a pirated version of Photoshop or whatever, so I'm sure this has all gone through one ear and out the other...
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:2, Interesting)
Except for the OS X application code that makes assumptions that it is running on 32bit big endian processors (PowerPC) and fails when ported to 32bit little endian x86. And we all know the kwality of closed source vendor code, don't we? </ob/.troll
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple could integrate WINE into Mac OS X, to let it run like the bluebox (Mac OS Classic) does on Mac OS X/ppc. That way, you could use all of your Windows apps right there in Mac OS X!
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:2)
OS X could run on the wider variety of PC hardware without too much trouble (starting to include every odd little thing would be a problem to a degree). That said Apple could go x86 (say to AMD's Hammers) and lock down the OS and such so that it only runs on Apple motherboards. Apple would stay a "little" computer company, but they would be using x86s. They could change things in every update that w
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:2)
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:2)
Er... no. This argument was invented years ago before microsoft got direct X or PNP working and there might have been some truth in it then, but there just isn't now. Take a look at knoppix for instance. Notice that it just works (tm) with virtually all of those thousands of motherboards, network cards, graphics cards, sound cards, etc. Now,
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:2)
No, Apple will not die, here is why... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:5, Funny)
Absolutely. The first 20 years of their existence, the only thing that kept them afloat was licensing their OS to other manufacturers. This new no-licensing policy is really a death knell, there's no way they can stay in business like that.
Re:So, Mac's dying? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:no video for ipod ... (Score:2, Interesting)
The thing that is holding back portable media, in my opinion, is the lack of easy, legal, content. Providing people with easy access to digital content is something Apple knows a little about. Why wou
Re:no video for ipod ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Putting video on an iPod would require much bigger iPods than we have now. And Apple thinks there isn't a market for it. And lack of interest in PMCs means they are probably right.
Re:no video for ipod ... (Score:2)
I tried it for a bit - I ripped a few movies into the appropriate "lite" DivX format and watched them on my iPAQ (a 1GB flash card can hold quite a bit and my model could take both CF and SD cards).
It was okay at the start, but the novelty wore off fairly quickly. I guess I only started doing it "because it was there" and it seemed like a good idea at the time.
I suspect most people w
I'm niche...I admit it..... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm an American finance geek living in London, so every morning my handheld PVR records the overnite BBC Business News [bbc.co.uk] at 3:45AM. I watch the 45 news broadcast while I'm headed to work at 5:51AM damn early in the morning!
I get a lot of utility out of time shifting the BBC, and would dump my iPod(s) (3G 20GB, 1GB Shuffle) in a heartbeat if my Archos (it also plays MP3's with cover art) matched half my iPods battery life. At present I get three hours tops.
I own ten Mac's (two G3 iMacs, a ClamShell iBook, two SEs, a MacTV, a PowerMac 5500/275, a G4 TiBook, a 15" G4 PowerBook, a G4 Cube) and still use the OS X capable machines daily. Even though I grok Apple deeply, they'd better put together a PVR solution ASAP.
It's their market to lose. I only own two iPaqs because my Newtons were getting long in the tooth.
Re:Um, so what? (Score:2, Funny)
True. Frontpage [microsoft.com] sucks so bad the Microsoft even dropped it from the standard Office suite. I think they replaced it with Publisher.
You know a product sucks really bad when it loses market share to Notepad.exe
Re:I have the opposite problem (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I have the opposite problem (Score:2)
But wi
Re:They kinda already DO (Score:2)
Think of it as that mysterious 'test' most elite PC users want to keep the idiot next door from killing his PC for the 19th time... This will limit it's function to the enduser, but with support for automatically
Re:I have the opposite problem (Score:2)
OS X Tiger's Spotlight/Search feature will be a godsend, won't it?
Re:I have the opposite problem (Score:5, Interesting)
Log into the account. You'll notice there is just the dock at the bottom with an applications folder, and a documents folder. Single clicking opens apps or documents. Now, for maximum simplicity, open up each app, choose Open, and drag over the middle bar in the open dialog so the disks and default folders are covered up. That leaves no distraction from the documents folder.
That's what I do to create an account for someone who doesn't "get" all that techie computer stuff. (And fair play to them.)
Now, your point might be that there should be an option to set the machine up like this the first time you boot it up, and I'd totally agree.
A.