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OS X Businesses Operating Systems Portables (Apple) Apple Hardware

Looking Ahead to Tiger, Powerbook G5s 524

sebFlyte writes "ZDNet is running a preview of Apple's newest version of OSX, Tiger, after Jobs said it was still on track for a q2 2005 release (long before Longhorn...)." And an anonymous reader writes "The Register is reporting that Powerbook G5s will ship in Q2 2005."
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Looking Ahead to Tiger, Powerbook G5s

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  • Too hot? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LordNokia ( 776881 ) * <4trw@qlink.q[ ]nsu.ca ['uee' in gap]> on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:25AM (#11361019) Homepage Journal
    Supposedly a G5 was too hot to put into a small form factor, like a laptop or the miniMac. Does anyone know how they overcame the heat factor?
    • Re:Too hot? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Ironsides ( 739422 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:28AM (#11361055) Homepage Journal
      New technology for the silicon, Underclocking to reduce power consumption, a couple other things can be done... I have no idea which they are using, but it is possible. Look at the Pentium M or centrino for an example.
      • Re:Too hot? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Psykechan ( 255694 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @10:41AM (#11362030)
        I'll believe that there are G5 PowerBooks when I see a damn "Free G5 PowerBooks!" ad-scam link in someone's sig.
      • Re:Too hot? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by beegle ( 9689 )
        Your sig mentions worrying about moderators who mark things "overrated". I have to admit that I've done it sometimes because there's no "just plain wrong" or "clearly living on another planet" tag.

        I'm not talking about "I disagree", I'm talking about posts that claim things that plainly aren't true, like "Apple is -already- making G5 laptops." That stuff tends to percolate up because moderators look at it and say "Wow. I didn't know that." without realizing that they didn't know it because the poster is
    • Re:Too hot? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Xpilot ( 117961 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:33AM (#11361101) Homepage
      Easy, just have marketing gussy it up as a "feature", not a bug.

      Powerbook G5! Not only does it have a 64-bit CPU, it makes you fried eggs [dailymail.co.uk] and barbequed sausages [theregister.co.uk] for breakfast! Automatically!

    • Re:Too hot? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by TheKidWho ( 705796 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:33AM (#11361105)
      It could be that they are using the new freescale dual core G4 chipsets with on die memory controllers and 1mb L2 cache. They are supposed to be really really good with power consumption too.
    • by kaan ( 88626 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:39AM (#11361169)
      I don't think there's much credibility to the claim of a G5 powerbook shipping within the next 6 months. I was just reading something the other day (I think it may have been another article at The Register, in fact), where one of the Apple higher-ups was quoted as saying that a G5 in a Powerbook would be "the mother of all thermal challenges", and then immediately refused to answer any more questions about it.

      Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a superfast Powerbook hit the market, I think it would only do good things for customers and Apple as a company. But it took about 2 years before Apple engineers figured out how to pack the G4 into a Powerbook. I'd love to eat crow about this rumor and be proven wrong, but I just don't see it.
    • Easy... (Score:4, Informative)

      by the_twisted_pair ( 741815 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:42AM (#11361207)
      ..irelies on a miniturised Reality Distortion Field which diverts the hot air into the Marketing division.

      A less sarcastic answer - it has to be a proc. revision or variant which lowers power demand. In a portable, waste heat is wasted battery life. Apple laptops excel at battery life/ management - I would be amazed if that got tossed just to get to market.
      • Re:Easy... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by dfj225 ( 587560 )
        I have an G4 iBook and I am constantly surprised how quite it runs. Until last night, I wasn't even sure if it had a fan in it or not. I was compiling a DVD image and this was the first time I've heard the fan come on and thats after about 5 months of having used it for normal everyday things. Using wi-fi and turning the brightness up does drain the batter a little faster, but it still runs pretty long on one charge.

        I think it would be a really bad idea to drop the battery life just to have a G5 in the
    • Re:Too hot? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by TheRaven64 ( 641858 )
      It could be that DigiTimes (The Register's source) is up to its up to its usual trick of reporting random speculation dressed as news (their article is slashdotted at them moment, so I can't tell what they are actually saying), and El Reg has just blown it out of proportion. I'd be more inclined to trust the report if it came from ThinkSecret, or someone else who has a reputation for reliability slightly greater than DigiTimes.
      • Re:Too hot? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:56AM (#11361375)
        One data point: Apple employees get an email about once a quarter with things they can buy at a discount - informally called "qpromo". The current qpromo is selling off all sizes of Powerbooks. Generally, qpromo is used to sell off something that's about to be upgraded or revved. For example, I bought my 15" titanium Powerbook through qpromo, and a month or two later they brought out a titanium Powerbook with a higher screen resolution and a faster processor. The next time titanium Powerbooks appeared on qpromo was just before it was replaced by the aluminium 15" Powerbook. The presence of all sizes of Powerbooks in qpromo hints strongly at either a speed rev or a totally new processor.
    • Re:Too hot? (Score:4, Funny)

      by brasten ( 699342 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @01:07PM (#11364368)
      The new PowerBook G5s will have NO DISPLAY! That will allow Apple more case room to cool the processor, and give users the PLEASURE of truely RANDOM computing!

      Just sync it to your desktop... it will automatically copy over the files you use the most!
  • by barzok ( 26681 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:30AM (#11361064)
    That's barely long enough to count as a press release!
  • I've got the cash... (Score:5, Informative)

    by nighty5 ( 615965 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:31AM (#11361088)
    It's a waiting game.

    I'm prepared to wait for the next batch of Power book to come along before I part with $AUD4,000 for a 15" PB.

    The iBook's were refreshed some time ago so hopefully it won't be too long now.

    I can't wait to say goodbye to my shitty overheated Dell D600 - avoid them at all costs. The harddrives geneated too much heat (your hand gets really hot), AND at my work we have at least replaced 30 batteries out of 300 units.

    • I have to say here, if you want a cool laptop, why are you waiting for a G5? I've got a 1.5Ghz 15" G4 PowerBook as my desktop replacement, and it rocks, but it's about as hot as I'm comfortable with. Do you genuinely do anything that requires processing power with your laptops, or do you just want the latest thing? Unless you're going to use that CPU grunt, I'd really recommend getting a 1.33Ghz or 1.5Ghz PowerBook.
  • by Anonymous Writer ( 746272 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:34AM (#11361118)
    They haven't said anything new about Tiger that they didn't already mention last year, to my knowledge. I wish they would just release Quicktime 7 already, so users could work with H.264 without having to wait for Tiger.
  • Who Cares about G5 (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TampaDeveloper ( 834876 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:34AM (#11361121)
    If Freescale continues to improve the speed and heat dissipation of the G4 the way they have been, who cares if its a G4 or G5. G4 is faster at the same clock speed. So whats the difference between a 1.5Ghz G4 and a 1.8Ghz G5? I think it would be much more productive for Applie to differentiate the powerbook line from the ibook line by putting one of those swanky new dual core G4's in it. Hey, whatd'ya know. The new G4's should be available 2nd quarter.
    • by Herbmaster ( 1486 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @11:16AM (#11362479)

      Even if the G4 is faster than the G5 at the same clock speed, there are lots of reasons to go with a G5. Not the least of which is that the G4 doesn't run at as high a clock speed as the G5. 1.5 vs. 1.8 is one thing, 1.5 vs. 2.5 is something else entirely. Realistically, the G5 blows the G4 out of the water. The G5 is a 64-bit processor, although the utility of that in a laptop is pretty questionable. I think the big win with the G5 is that you're no longer stuck with the G4's antiquated FSB. Right now there is little reason to run a G4 at 2GHz because the memory bandwidth available to it is so low.

  • Will ship? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:34AM (#11361123)
    "The Register is reporting that Powerbook G5s will ship in Q2 2005."

    Actually the Register said:

    So claim sources close to Taiwan's contract manufacturers, DigiTimes reports.

    Which makes this more of a glorified rumor than anything else. Of course if it is true I'll be first in line to buy a G5 PowerBook come Q2 2005 and judging from what is being written about cooling problems I will also be able to fry bacon and eggs on it.
  • Smart Folders (Score:5, Interesting)

    by your_mother_sews_soc ( 528221 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:39AM (#11361178)
    I just installed the latest Tiger Preview last night. It seems to be just like Panther in many respects. I can't say I was wowed by the all of new features since:
    • I didn't spend much time using it
    • I'm never that excited by new features until I learn their value through use over time.
    That said, there is one new feature that really impressed me: Smart Folders. They are part of Spotlight [apple.com] and are very similar to Smart Playlists in iTunes. In essence they are "virtual folders" that you define using rules. I set one up to list all of my images. It works in conjunction with the indexing provided by Spotlight and seemed to be very fast. I think this one new feature will be the standout in the next release.
    • by System.out.println() ( 755533 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @10:05AM (#11361522) Journal
      The trend in Tiger is moving towards Smart . iPhoto has Smart Albums. Finder has Smart Folders. Mail has smart Folders. Address Book has Smart Groups. Probably a bunch that I've missed.

      Some third-party developers have already taken it to heart. NewsFire [newsfirex.com] recently added Smart Feeds, which combine news items from different feeds based on criteria - every news item from the last 3 hours containing the word iPod, say. And Colloquy [colloquy.info]'s developer is working on adding Smart Channels, combining messages from any IRC channels you're currently a part of.

      It's most definitely a good trend. This shit is cool.
  • by bay43270 ( 267213 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:41AM (#11361189) Homepage
    I just bought a Powerbook G4, so you can expect the G5 announcement any day now.
  • by Psykechan ( 255694 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:43AM (#11361212)
    After reading TFA, I don't think that we will have G5 laptops anytime within the first half of this year.

    It states that sources close to the Taiwan manufacturer claim they will ship. Aren't these the same sources that have been promising a Tablet Macintosh [theregister.co.uk]?

    It also states that there are the known heat problems, Apple saying it won't happen, and has a link to a more likely higher speed 90nm G4 (MPC7448) to be used in the newer models. This doesn't even factor in the fact that a G5 PowerBook would likely have been mentioned at the conference. It even suggests that the quoted source has made a typo!

    Is this hype that we should be reading on the front page? It's /. so of course!
  • by Compulawyer ( 318018 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:43AM (#11361217)
    1. Apple itself has called putting the G5 into a notebook "the mother of all engineering challenges." That doesn't mean that Apple hasn't overcome those challenges but ...
    2. Apple's usual policy when asked about new products is "no comment." It is unusual that Apple would expressly deny a product. Everyone KNOWS there will be a G5 notebook SOMEDAY, but ther question is WHEN? Given Apple's tremenndous stock run-up since August 2004, I think it more likely that Apple does not want premature rumours of a G5 PowerBook to cause a bubble effect on its stock price.
    3. The linked article ITSELF acknowledged that the original source may have mistakenly typed a "5" instead of a "4." It is far more likely that the iBook and PowerBook lines will get a speed bump, most likely announced at the upcoming WWDC.
  • PowerBooks & Apple (Score:3, Informative)

    by IceFox ( 18179 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:44AM (#11361231) Homepage
    Granted I guess I couldn't really validate buying an Apple system when I already have several very nice x86 Linux boxes and I am going to be using the Linux boxes more anyway, but.... I can validate getting an Apple PowerBook. I had one last year and loved having it. The wifi just worked and bla cool bla shiny bla. Anyway so I probably wont be buying a mini (no real need at this time), but I was really hoping for some price change on the PowerBook. Waited the past four months, but alas no change this week. So I was going to pick one up next week, but now more credulant (than just dihard mac wishes) of the G5 in the PowerBooks? Should I wait 6 months or .... -Benjamin Meyer P.S. Along the same lines started about two years ago I noticed that more and more Linux developers have PowerBooks even if they don't have Apple desktop box's.
  • Sweet (Score:5, Funny)

    by one9nine ( 526521 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:45AM (#11361236) Journal
    Once I get one of these and put Java 1.5 on it, I'll have some sweet Tiger-on-Tiger action.
    • Re:Sweet (Score:3, Informative)

      by vocaro ( 569257 )
      Apple is one step ahead of you: Tiger will be bundled with Tiger.

      Boy, these code names are getting confusing.
  • by njfuzzy ( 734116 ) <ian.ian-x@com> on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:48AM (#11361288) Homepage
    The PowerBook rumor showed up on some of the Mac rumor sites this morning.

    The info comes from a chart and memo about upcoming "PowerBook G5" and "iBook G5" computers to be produced by a contact manufacturer of Apple's for Q2 2005. That is the first grain of salt.

    The second is that on Apple's fiscal calendar, it is *currently* Q2, 2005. So if the rumor is true, Apple has less than three months to release a computer which just yesterday was touted in their conference call as "the mother of all thermal challenges... (not) any time soon".

    The third is that the PowerBook sales have been slipping because of a lack of advantage over the iBook, and historically, the iBook processor is a generation behind the PowerBook for as long as possible.

    Conclusion? This rumor was just a typo. We will be seeing updated PowerBooks and iBooks released near the end of Q2 (in March) but it is very unlikely that the PB will have a G5 under the hood, and impossible that the iBook will.

    Move along folks.

  • by adzoox ( 615327 ) * on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:50AM (#11361316) Journal
    DigiTimes is NOT a reliable source. They often have information wrong. They said Apple would have 15.4" wide laptops - they remained from the titanium to the aluminum enclosures at 15.2"

    They also stated that the 12" PowerBooks would pick up key illumination - none yet.

    They also have said something about Tablet Macs in production.

    Other problems with the chart. Quanta is also making the Mac Mini - not Foxconn. As far as I know Foxconn just makes cables and circuit boards.

    As someone mentioned - it was clearly stated that one of Apple's biggest challeges EVER is the PowerBook G5 thermal issues, but they continued to hint that we WILL see one this year.

    I imagine PowerBooks go to 1.75Ghz first THEN we see a 1.8Ghz and a 2.0 Ghz G5 released next to 2.75 and 3.0Ghz G5 desktops.
  • java java java 1.5 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by acomj ( 20611 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:51AM (#11361326) Homepage
    Apple isn't going to release java 1.5 until tiger. Disapointing, considering its been out for 4-5 months now. Even though tiger seems like its worth the upgrade anyway , I wish they wouldn't make java tied into the upgrade.

    Remember what Steve said

    Developers Developers Developers.

    Oh that was a different Steve, Dancing Steve?
  • by allanc ( 25681 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @09:56AM (#11361366) Homepage
    I'm envisioning a longhorn cow grazing stupidly in a field. A tiger sneaks up and noisily devours it.

    Then, later, RedHat could make a competing commercial. Same thing happens, except after the tiger attack, a fat little penguin waddles up and eats the tiger.

    --AC
  • by Junior J. Junior III ( 192702 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @10:11AM (#11361611) Homepage
    Direct from the article:
    A third possibility exists: DigiTimes has written 'G5' when it should have typed 'G4'.


    Certainly, Apple wants to move the PowerBook line to the G5 and will do so as soon as possible. But Freescale's upcoming 90nm G4-class MPC7448 chip has been seen as a more likely candidate than the G5 for the next PowerBook and/or iBook revisions.


    So, basically, who knows what's going to happen?

    3GHz or bust, I say.
  • Not. A. Chance. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ArbitraryConstant ( 763964 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @11:01AM (#11362288) Homepage
    "Tucked away in a discussion about Apple's manufacturing partners are references to an iBook G5 and a PowerBook G5, which will ship in Q2 2005."

    Even if there were a PowerBook G5 on the way, and that's a big 'if' for H1... there's no way it would happen for the iBooks in that timeframe. None whatsoever. Everybody knows how Apple feels about their market segmentation.
  • by LittleLebowskiUrbanA ( 619114 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @11:16AM (#11362483) Homepage Journal
    They mention that Setup Assistant will be able to (future tense) migrate all of your settings to a new computer like XP does now (sometimes). Bullshit. It's here and it works now, ZDnet.
  • by loyukfai ( 837795 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @11:21AM (#11362537)
    When Apple files the lawsuits... : )
  • eye candy (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mbbac ( 568880 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @11:39AM (#11362827)
    The much-touted features Spotlight and Dashboard may end up just another layer of eye candy, further moving Apple away from its halcyon days of interface design based on good science, rather than style.
    What is this guy thinking? Spotlight has very, very little to do with eye candy. The only way you can associate it with eye candy is the way it was implemented in System Preferences where search result icons are highlighted with a quite literal spotlight. Other than that it does the vast majority of its work behind the scenes. And where it does have a GUI, it is a straight-forward interface that is based on science and lets user find files and documents in a fraction of the time it would normally take.
  • by ekmo ( 128842 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @02:57PM (#11366046)
    DigiTimes [digitimes.com] reported that that both the PowerBook and iBook G5 will be released in Q2. This is rather unlikely, as Apple has historically released new "Power" models at least one full quarter before releasing corresponding "i" models (for example the PowerMac G5 was released on June 9 while the iMac G5 was not released until August 31).

    Also, fifty-three minutes into Apple's conference call [apple.com] discussing Q1 2005 financial results last Wednesday, Executive Vice President of Worldwide Sales and Operations Tim Cook said, "let me be clear on this one, it would be the mother of all thermal challenges to do what you are suggesting," when asked about releasing a PowerBook 5G in Q2 or Q3.

    If anyone could meet "the mother of all thermal challenges," it would be Apple, who has designed innovative cooling systems for the PowerMac and iMac G5, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.
  • by Enrique1218 ( 603187 ) on Friday January 14, 2005 @06:07PM (#11368685) Journal
    According to ThinkSecret [thinksecret.com] (who has a better track record with predicting future mac products) claims that only a modest PB update is imminent. Also, with the advent of dual core processors from Fresscale (due in later this year), Apple engineers have another ace up their sleeve. They could move the PowerBooks in that direction with Jobs hyping the first dual processor notebooks. In any rate, I don't see Apple using G5's this year in the PowerBook because of Apple's own contraints. They have to live up to the standard of today's PB. The notebooks can't be more than a 1" thick, can't weigh more than current models, can't last 1-2hours on battery power, and most important can't cause testicular burns. In essence, they can't live by the standards of Wintel OEM's (Dell, HP, Gateway, Alienware, etc)

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