Yellow Dog Linux 4.0 - Finally in Limited Release 223
sloopy writes "Terra Soft Solutions has released the long awaited and overdue next version of Yellow Dog Linux - version 4.0, for ydl.net enhanced subscribers and pre-installed on new machines, with full release to hopefully soon follow in the coming weeks. With this new release, they finally include native support for the new G5s (32-bit kernel/toolchain currently, full 64-bit soon) and continued support for the G4s and newer G3s."
I like Linux but... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the desktop side, I see no advantage of running Linux rather than OS X. Don't get me wrong, I use Linux on my IBM laptop all the time, but on OS X I can run the same programs and also all the nice Mac OS X only things like iTunes.
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Secondly, YDL can run a bit faster than OSX on this hw if I use a lighter wm/desktop e.g. fluxbox, xfce, etc. In which case it can be a little faster. That being said my Pismo(also a 500) runs OSX faster than the ibook and the only real hw diff is the 66M v. 100M bus...
Downsides: modem support is not very good(probably limited hw doc access), as is power management support(probably same as with modem), and airport support isn't too hot either(i.e. I end up doing quite a bit of manual configuring...), sound support is well, basically crap, and DVD playback non-existant...(although these last 2 are extremely minor issues for me as this system is not really for gaming or video watching...)
In fact with recent OSX releases I have been seriously considering moving back to OSX, but am leery of dealing with all the multimeg updates(modem)... installing fink(or whatever, again multimeg + modem ick) But then I'd have good modem support, power management, sound, and airport config again(or at least in a non-manual, or not as manual sort of way...)
Newer iBooks/Powerbooks: er... isn't there a conexant(? binary) driver for the sw/USB modem? I've heard that it introduces potential stability problems, but I've never encountered them...
YDL itself: at the time it installed with the fewest problems v. debian/slackintosh/suse and seemed like it would receive the most attention, although it now seems that debian or gentoo would be as good alternatives if you have any clue, but I guess that you wouldn't be attempting to run linux if you didnt... I'd also hazard that maybe a Darwin based distro would be even better as the kernel would likely have better support for hw, maybe, but I've never really investigated myself as I'd rather just get all the goodies and run OSX if I was going to bother with a Darwin base...
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:3, Informative)
Hey, to anyone who wants to run Mac-only applications on top of YDL (or probably any Linux distro running on a PPC processor) you might want to know about Mac-on-Linux [maconlinux.org]. Apparently it's capable of running pretty much any version of the Mac OS from System 7.5.2 to OS X 10.3.x, at near native speeds. I've never had the chance to try it myself but it looks pretty interes
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:5, Interesting)
According to EveryMac [everymac.com], your computer was released 10/5/99 - that's five years give or take a few weeks. How is that relatively recent when Apple only started selling Macs 20 years ago?
The list price was $999 which means you have gotten core computer usage for ~$200 a year, or less than $0.55 a day. Perhaps it is time to upgrade to a system that DOES run OS X.
Did you know about this [apple.com] or this [apple.com]? Both are in the range of your existing investment - AND YOU GET A NEW APPLE COMPUTER!
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
The reason?
It may end up costing more to run than a new system. When you are talking about a 5 year old PC, you are talking CRT, larger (size) but smaller (capacity) hard drive, inferrior cooling methods, slower processors, ram, and networking.
All this adds up to a system that runs slow and hot, driving up energy bills to run the system AND cool the room as well as taking a lot longer to perform a specific task, thus directly increasing ene
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:5, Informative)
The list price was $999 which means you have gotten core computer usage for ~$200 a year, or less than $0.55 a day. Perhaps it is time to upgrade to a system that DOES run OS X.
FWIW, if you put at least 256mb of memory in it, you can usably run OS X on a 350. I have it running quite surprisingly well with Panther on an iMac/333, which is even worse, with 512mb of RAM. It's obviously not good for having lots of apps open or for number crunching or whatever, but it's a very good machine for browsing the 'net or email and things of that nature - which was one of the major selling points for the iMacs initially anyways.
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
I look at YDL, for me, as extended life support.
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
BTW, I consider it relatively recent because my last Mac was a 6100/60. Not a bad machine in it's day.
Believe me, I've drooled over the iBook as an inexpensive OS X entry. Someday...
Linux is the future for my computers from the past (Score:3, Interesting)
My beige G3 with an upgraded CPU sits on my room mates desk where it gets 4 or more hours use a night.
My G4 tower is still my editing station. It has undergone numerous upgrades from the day it arrived as a stock G4/400, but professional editing needs
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
WINE does not currently run on PPC hardware, at all, since it is an API implementation, not a emulator. There is a project going to combine WINE with a hardware emulator (BOCHS) and that will then work, but very slowly.
There is a Mac-On-Linux project that is in some ways similar to WINE on x86, and you can run MacOS 9 on top of Linux on PPC. For more information see their site [maconlinux.org]
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
Mac OS X 10.3 runs just fine on the 350 mHz iMac. My parents are running it on one and they have had few, if any, problems. The big thing is to make sure that you have at least 384 MB of RAM in the machine, any less and you will run into swap quickly which slows the machine down considerably.
It won't be a speed demon by any means but you can surf the web, use Microsoft Word and Excel, play some of the l
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
Hi, I don't know if you realize this, but your 350Mhz iMac (slot loading?) is capable of running OS X 10.3 adequately for common desktop uses, provided you make sure it has the latest firmware update and give it plenty of RAM (Crucial.com is a good place to get RAM for Apple computers). Might want to upgrade the hard drive too, to at least 10-20GB, but that's no big deal. Couple hundred dollars and you'll
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
Your 350mhz iMac runs OS X poorly? I'm on one right now, and it runs great, without any upgrades. If you upgrade the RAM, it'll be even better. OS X 10.1 might run a tad slow on it (of course the first version won't be as fast as the improved one), but Panther is blazing. With all due respect, you're flat-out wrong on OS X's performance.
Fortunately, with OS X every time a new version comes out it runs be
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2, Informative)
But..... (Score:4, Funny)
Run, Yellow dog, run !
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:4, Insightful)
For an Apple-fan, it may not make sense to run Linux on an iBook, because the alternative is running OSX.
But for a Linux-fan, running Linux on an iBook makes sense because the alternative is a Dell.
Here's why Linux on Apple hardware (Score:2)
I primarily run OS X these days, but I've lived with Yellow Dog on an older iBook and it was a great experience. Nobody is even close to Terrasoft's Mac hardware support, particularly on laptops. My iBook YDL 3.0 install was even better behaved on PPC than its parent, Red Hat
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
Now, are we running UT2004 @ 100fps. . .no. In fact if we open up several heavy apps at once like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc. than they slow down. But that's not what I use a laptop for, rather I use it for software development and portability. For these uses the iBook fits perfectly for a very good price.
Re:I like Apple but... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
Re:I like Linux but... (Score:2)
You can code free software apps for Windows too. What's your point?
Yellow Dog Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux will be around for a very long time. It may change, grow, expand, but it will most likely never die. No corporation (even Microsoft) can halt the production of Linux as everyone has the opportunity to offer improvements, to help it become better than it was. Linux users will never be in the position of finding their OS is no longer supported."
This is cool! Basically it allows you to keep all your existing stuff (from what i gathered) and move to a completely different and (in many people's opinion) better processor architecture, not to mention fancy keyboard/mouse with cool looking box/monitor. Question: Can you dual boot it though? because OSX is so damn pretty and it has X11 to support some linux st0ff.
Re:Yellow Dog Linux (Score:3, Informative)
And of course there is Mac on Linux which let's you run OSX at allmost native speed while working in linux.
Re:Yellow Dog Linux (Score:2)
I can beat that. :) I have OS X (Panther), Mandrake Linux 9.1, NetBSD 1.6.2, and OpenBSD 3.5. Four operating systems, five if you count System 9.2. It's a bit of a pain to boot the BSDs, but it all works.
Oh, it's an iBook dual-USB 600, upgraded to 640 megs RAM and an 80 gig hard drive (boy was THAT a pain).
Re:Yellow Dog Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Sure, you can. The boot loader on ppc linux is 'yaboot' and handles that fine.
Re:Yellow Dog Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, you can dual-boot. Furthermore, with mac-on-linux [maconlinux.org], you can run your OSX installation in a window on linux. Not emulation, either...it just boots the os native.
Doesnt run on 17in gen 1 powerbook :( (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Doesnt run on 17in gen 1 powerbook :( (Score:2)
Re:Doesnt run on 17in gen 1 powerbook :( (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Doesnt run on 17in gen 1 powerbook :( (Score:3, Funny)
YOU BOUGHT A 17INCH POWERBOOK TO RUN LINUX?!
It won't let you proceed beyond that point...
Re:Doesnt run on 17in gen 1 powerbook :( (Score:2)
support dropped (Score:5, Informative)
Re:support dropped (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, I think that's a dumb move on their part. I'd imagine half (if not more) of YDL users are running it on old machines that either can't support OS X, or run it too sluggishly to bother. The beige G3s are still powerful machines. If you can still install Fedora on a circa-1994 Pentium, you should be able to put YDL on a G3 from 1998.
Re:support dropped (Score:2)
Re:support dropped (Score:2)
This page has some info... [gentoo.org]
Check out the link on this page a few lines down about the gentoo linux ppc faq...will show you all supported macs...
Re:support dropped (Score:2)
sweet , really sweet (Score:4, Funny)
"you cradle your new 12" PowerBook G4 (small enough to hide at the office) running Yellow Dog Linux. Feeling so empowered by this transformation, you quickly demand full reimbursement for the cost of your Mac from your health insurance company, stating with affirmation that an Apple with Yellow Dog Linux is an NIH funded, clinically tested, FDA approved form of alternative medicine. And you would have walked to Canada to get one!
Yes, this is why people run Linux on a Mac. Hard to explain, isn't it? "
Suffocating the old (Score:3, Insightful)
For those of use who continue to use a pre-G3 at home because that's all we really need, we can't use the new YDL. How many moms/aunts/not-so-technical cousins are using such older machines?
Finally? (Score:4, Insightful)
Finally? Goodness, you guys sure do ask a lot. G5's haven't been out all that long. =)
Re:Finally? (Score:2)
Yes, but we're linux users. We're used to linux running on an architecture long before the hardware actually exists...at least that's the way it always works with new chips from Intel and AMD.
Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:5, Interesting)
Can any YDL advocates provide some insight as to why they prefer this over OSX?
Re:Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:5, Insightful)
Other reasons include apps like Evolution fitting in on Linux, but not on MacOS (and Evo 2 is really, really sweet, far better than Apple Mail in my estimation), improved semantic/source compatibility with the x86 Linux world, want to learn it for future job markets etc etc.
There are lots of reasons.
Re:Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:3, Informative)
As an aside, I wanted to point you toward a virtual desktop pager for OSX that I've been using and really like:
http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/index.php [sourceforge.net]
Re:Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:2)
Does hibernation work as smoothly as in OSX? (Score:2)
Re:Does hibernation work as smoothly as in OSX? (Score:2)
Suffice it to say that suspend is really cool. I don't think I've switched my laptop off for ages, I just press the half-moon button and within a few seconds it's "off". A few more seconds and it's back on. The only gripe I have with it is that when I resume the screensaver has come on, as xscreen
Re:Does hibernation work as smoothly as in OSX? (Score:2)
Re:Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:2)
Desktop Manager (Score:2)
Re:Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Question for Yellow Dog users... (Score:2)
It's scads faster than OSX. Scads I tell you!
Shameless plug alert! (Score:5, Interesting)
--Jon
Not clear... (Score:3, Interesting)
Any experience out there?
Re:Not clear... (Score:2)
I have YDL running on my pismo, it works extremely well.
My biggest complaint about linux on PPC is there is absolutely no flash plugin available.
Linux + Powerbook (Score:5, Interesting)
MacOS X does Just Work, but sometimes it doesn't work the way I want it too. Sometimes I want to be able to compile any package and KNOW that it is going to work. Sometimes I want a pure linux development environment, and I am willing to take in a few of the caveats (ie. improper pmud).
Othertimes I just feel mired by a sleek GUI when I know how quickly I can execute the same task with a full linux environment.
Linux on apple hardware is a great thing (don't dis it until you try it
Re:Linux + Powerbook (Score:2)
I think there are key differences:
Re:Linux + Powerbook (Score:2)
Firewire boot (Score:5, Interesting)
Even though having a dual boot system is fairly safe "if you know what you are doing" there are people who don't want to muck with their OS X disk.
Trying to understand the appeal (Score:4, Insightful)
If OS X can run most/all linux apps via X11, then why would someone want to run Yellow God native?
I thought the achillies heal of linux is the difficult/multivariation/infinitely configurable interface. Seems like if OS X nips that issue, and offers support of linux apps (X11), then I don't get the need to buy a G5 and ditch the OS it comes with for Yellow Dog.
Re:Trying to understand the appeal (Score:2, Interesting)
There is just one point I'd like to comment on: I thought the achillies heal of linux is the difficult/multivariation/infinitely configurable interface.
I think you thought wrong. Actually it is one of linux' greatest strength and one of the main reasons I prefer it over OSX that you can actually have the interface you like. Wether it be simply the shell, something like ion,
Re:Trying to understand the appeal (Score:3, Informative)
This isn't as easy as it sounds- you can't just install Linux apps on OS X. If you are lucky you can recompile them making minimal changes and have it work. Tools like Fink help out a lot- I guess I'd compare it to a graphical apt-get for OS X even though I'm sure that isn't entirely accurate.
Re:Trying to understand the appeal (Score:3, Informative)
A few things.
First of all Fink uses apt-get as part of its package management. Fink is basically a Mac OS X-enhanced version of apt-get with some other good features added in.
Secondly, Fink is not graphical at all, it is completely command-line. There is, however, a 3rd-party graphical front end to Fink called FinkCommander.
Re:Trying to understand the appeal (Score:2)
IBMs article (Score:4, Informative)
Money (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Money (Score:2)
I thought Linux was supposed to be free.
You thought wrong. Nowhere is it required that Linux be distributed for free; it's only that you must be able to distribute it yourself for whatever charge you chose, including free; also that you must distribute the source to anyone to whom you distribute the binary.
So if a friend subscribes to YDL net, he has the authority to redistribute it to whomever he cares to for whatever price he sets it at. Many distributors of Linux have simply chosen to distribute
Re:Money (Score:2)
Live CDs? (Score:3, Interesting)
I moved to OS X after a linux hardware-incompatibility disaster and by and large I've never looked back. The thing is, I do simulation work in my free time that requires serious opengl and without hardware acceleration I'm SOL. Going mac made sense anyhow, since by day I'm a graphic designer and have always been on Macs, or at least since about '92. Until OS X I didn't consider the Mac to be a valid development platform, and until 10.2 I didn't consider OS X to be a valid system at all for general use )
What I'm curious about is wether live cds for PPC are available. I had heard about a gentoo ppc livecd but I couldn't actually *find* it.
I want to see what's happened in the few years I've been away and I'd like to see the level of hardware support. yes, I know that for my 12" PB support's going to suck, but really I just want to *see*.
Consider this an appeal for nostalgia.
AirPort Extreme Card Drivers (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not well informed on the issue, but I've heard it has something to do with the chipset manufacturer not releasing any specs or drivers for the product in question.
I haven't seen much third party reverse engineering to create a driver for this card; perhaps because of fear of DMCA stuff.
Mac OS X != Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Mainstream FLOSS applications like Firefox, dcgui and X-Chat performs a lot worse (slower, less stable, etc.) on Mac OS X than Linux. Atleast t
Re:YALD (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Well, great for old Macs and stuff to gain teh (Score:2)
I asked a similar question on spymac a while ago (when I first bought a PB and was puzzled why people would install Linux). The answer I got then was to keep ancient Mac hardware useful.
But if YD is dropping support for even moderately old boxes and adding 64-bit support then what's the point? Well one I can think of (sitting here typing on my shitty work Dell laptop and dreaming of the Al PB and DP G5 I have at home) is for the quality of the hardware. If I *wanted* specifically to run Linux then I would
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:2)
I'm as much an Apple fan boy as the next guy and can count 2 PBs, a dp G5 and an iPod to my name but even I wouldn't claim Panther is 64bit, sorry it isn't. And even Tiger, which will be much more 64bit still won't be 100%.
Edward
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:2)
So I can run 32bit compile-as-you-go-and-fight-dependencies Linux, or 64bit it-just-works OSX?
Only if you are running OSX 10.4 Tiger. Which isn't due for general release until next year.
SteveM
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:4, Informative)
1)OSX is not fully 64-bit either.
2)YDL created yum (Yellowdog Package Manager) that handles dependencies automatically.
3)There are lots of reasons folks might want to use Linux instead of OSX. Check around this story for lots of them. In my case, I just like KDE's interface a hell of a lot more than OSX's "real purty, but not at all utilitarian" approach.
4)If that wasn't meant as a flame, you need to work on your posting.
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:2)
No they didn't. Linux@DUKE [duke.edu] created and maintains yum [duke.edu]
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:2)
Different strokes for different folks. While I prefer OS X, I am glad that there is Yellow Dog and other distros for my Mac hardware. I want more choice, not less, even if I choose the default preinstalled OS.
I'm also glad that you and others are using Linux on Apple hard
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:3, Interesting)
At least if you fight with dependencies, you actually know what the dependencies are. This can be very helpful when pushing it out to many machines or when you find out that a library is buggy/exploitable.
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:2)
That's why I use while I still use Linux "on the desktop".
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:64 bit "soon" ? (Score:2)
This is one lie about OSX that drives me crazy. "It just works"
OSX just works if you don't use anything but a firewire drive and a usb camera. Try to use 3rd party hardware like a usb2.0 cdburner or a usb2.0 802.11g adaptor and you'll find that OSX just doesn't work.
Re:Doesnt matter (Score:2, Informative)
As for inflated hardware price - if you want PPC nicely packaged, Apple is the only game in town. If you don't then don't worry about it.
Re:Doesnt matter (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Doesnt matter (Score:2)
First $134M worth of shares is NOT a significant chunk of a multi-billion dollar company. Second, Microsoft sold those shares a long, long time ago.
But nice try at spreading some FUD, you should at least try to make it plausible.
Re:Doesnt matter (Score:2)
you live in a fantasy land or something or the apple bug bite you too bad? blind zealotry never helped anything.
Re:Doesnt matter (Score:2)
Re:Doesnt matter (Score:2)
Re:Gentoo (Score:2)