Gentoo for Mac OS X Released 291
joeljkp writes "According to today's Gentoo Weekly News, Gentoo has released a new project: Gentoo MacOS (sic). This new distribution adds Portage, Gentoo's package manager, to Mac OS X, among other things."
Cool (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Cool (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cool (Score:5, Informative)
its called http://gentoox.shallax.com/ [shallax.com]
-Jonathan
Not true (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not true (Score:2, Informative)
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=119534
Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:5, Informative)
-----------
"Apple, we have a problem" - Gentoo MacOS X Released
Figure 1.1: Derived from Apple's 'Redmond, we have a problem' campaign:
The Gentoo MacOS announcement
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn/200 40719_macos_pr oblem.png
Almost exactly one year after the idea of porting Portage to MacOS X came
up - and the joint Metapkg initiative[1] between Fink, Darwinports and
Gentoo took off - a 20-head-strong developer team around Pieter van den
Abeele[2] (strategic lead) and Daniel Ostrow[3] (operational) is now ready
to release an extraordinary beast into the wild: Gentoo MacOS. They
deliver on a promise no other Linux distribution has been daring enough to
make yet: Portage on MacOS is now fully operational, seamlessly integrated
as a package manager in a non-Linux operating system. It initially serves
the main purpose of an SDK for inclusion of new packages, testing and
patching. Granted, KDE isn't ported yet, but make no mistake: Gentoo MacOS
is ready for consumption by Macintosh users who want, say, scientific DTP
via TeX, something they will now be able to simply emerge in OS X just
like they'd do in Gentoo Linux."Right now it's a tool to install lots of
commonly requested applications on OS X", explains Pieter van den Abeele.
"But in a few months, we'll have a port system that builds Darwin from
scratch, provides a standardised lookup and installation routine for
Dashboard widgets[4], enhancements and tools like the Desktop Manager[5]
and many, many more popular OS X applications." Downloading the Gentoo
MacOS Installer provides users with a patched portage, its tree, and the
Python modules. It sets environment variables and demands a bootstrapping
shell script to be run before the first emerge that detects the operating
system (Panther or Tiger), chooses the relevant profiles and injects every
application it finds already installed in MacOS X.
1. http://www.metapkg.org
2. pvdabeel gentoo.org
3. dostrow gentoo.org
4. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html
5. http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/
Figure 1.2: Taming the Tiger with a double-click: The Gentoo MacOS
Installer
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn
Since Gentoo's own GCC ebuild for MacOS X isn't ready yet, compiling is
currently done using the Xcode development tools[6] which include GCC 3.3
provided by Apple. "People already on Tiger can experiment with GCC 3.5",
adds Pieter. Tiger, the new release of MacOS X, is due in 2005 with its
brandnew database filesystem Spotlight[7], modernised video services and
many other features. The Gentoo MacOS developers are busy polishing the
knobs (a Cocoa user interface is part of the plan), getting iSync[8]
integration to work (emerge an application on one machine, automatically
replicate onto all other Macs in a LAN), right down to making Catalyst
produce Darwin LiveCDs... "But first the cool stuff, then Darwin",
chuckles strategic lead Pieter. Even though his team is already larger
than the entire Gentoo Linux PPC developer group, they still train new
devs almost daily, and whoever wants to help with the project is very
welcome to get in touch. The public Wiki[9] holds installation
instructions and serves as a reporting tool for packages outside of
Portage that already compile without bombing out. The Gentoo MacOS
Installer can be downloaded from here[10].
6. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/xcode.html
7. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlighttech.ht ml
8. http://www.apple.com/isync/
9. http://gentoo-wiki.com/Gentoo_MacOS
10. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/
Full size (1024x768) screenshots of the Gentoo MacOS installation
procedure:
* Installer starts[11]
* Detection of OS version and installed software[12]
* Still busy injecting detected
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:2)
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:3, Informative)
It's not a database filesystem. I wrote an entry in my journal on the subject, and I'd quote it here if /. weren't so laggy right now. But Spotlight is just indexing the same metadata that is in HFS+ under Jaguar, plus data that it pulls out of the file, not out of the filesystem. There is significant improvement in the mechanism and the interface, but it i
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:5, Informative)
But Spotlight is just indexing the same metadata that is in HFS+ under Jaguar, plus data that it pulls out of the file, not out of the filesystem. There is significant improvement in the mechanism and the interface, but it is not a "database filesystem."
As far as I can tell, that is incorrect; Dominic (the authoer of BeFS) has added additional metadata capabilities to HFS+, so Spotlight is actually 1) indexing that metadata, and 2) using interpreters to pull and index data from various file formats. See those post, for instance. [daringfireball.net] While I agree that this does not create a true database filesystem, I would say that it's close to what BeOS had, which is the closest anyone has come.
I must admit interest in MS's claim that they're going to create a true database filesystem; while it is obviously technically feasible, it's just as stupid now as it was years ago when Be decided to back off theirs. Thus, I expect MS to produce a solution that does what they said it would do while sucking so much that no one uses it. It will be interesting to watch.
As to the claim that Apple is just doing all front-end stuff while MS is actually doing technology, I call baloney on that one. Apple has been good recently at creating and then utilyzing really good technology (although it's usually protocols, not servers). All of the technology available via .Mac is available to everyone, even if the servers themselves aren't. I can (and did) create a WebDAV server to store and share my calendars, and I can mount this WebDAV server as a local filesystem. Rendezvous/Zeroconf is another good example of a tech that Apple has developed, championed, and then been a real leader on.
I agree that there are big differences, though: Spotlight is based on proven technology and will surely arrive in 2005, while WinFS is a huge gamble, will increase costs dramatically (both licensing and maintenance), and will also arrive no earlier than 2006, without actually being based on proven tech at all. If their history is anything to go by, it will be 2010 or so before WinFS is usable.
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:3, Informative)
MS has already announced that WinFS is being withdrawn from Longhorn along with several other technologies, all of which have now been pushed back to the following Windows release("Blackcomb"). This was a result of basically two fa
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:2)
I disagree. I believe that true database filesystems will be a big thing for desktops/business environments in the future.
Problem: We have bunches of word processor files, spreadsheets, etc. Google could have found them in less than 1 sec if they were on the web, but we have to wait long t
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:2)
You have missed his point.
There are several ways to implement the feature you describe. One is with a database-driven filesystem. One is with an ordinary filesystem that is adequately indexed. Apple looks to have implemented very good indexing of an ordinary filesystem.
Spotlight will give you all the features you describe, but it will not be a database-driven filesystem
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:3, Informative)
No rumour - I suspect this is a reference to the Google Search Appliance [google.com]. You just need to make your resources, as far as I know, accessible via http.
YLFIRe:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:4, Informative)
Repeat once again: WinFS is NOT a filesystem ! (Score:4, Informative)
I read this occasionally on
I went to a mini-conference by a ms evangelist, and he repeated it many times.
I'd be more interested in what Reiser4 does with metadata, it seems much more interesting than a mere additionnal layer.
Re:Full Text (images already /.'ed) (Score:2, Funny)
knobs
How are they ever going to finish it if they're spending all day polishing their knobs?
Server, we have a problem (Score:4, Funny)
I see that it's a catchy headline, but ... (Score:5, Interesting)
No, Apple *has* a problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I see that it's a catchy headline, but ... (Score:3, Informative)
Oh well, maybe it should have been "Cupertino, we have a problem".
Re:I see that it's a catchy headline, but ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Yea, and? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yea, and? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I have a bad feeling... (Score:2)
Besides, it's a pretty old joke so if it hasn't caught on yet, it's not very likely. It still fits the bill nicely as a pseudo-chuckle level punchline when applied to a comparison between products that
Re:I have a bad feeling... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Yea, and? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, this one can compile the packages from source. Oh wait, Fink already does that...Yeah, how does this really differ from the Fink project, other than being based on Gentoo's portage system?
Re:Yea, and? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yea, and? (Score:5, Informative)
First, there are a quite a bunch of advanced build options in Portage that are not available under Fink (see
Fink is nice, but its package tree is smaller and less up to date than Portage is. Besides, nobody will prevent you from having both.
Apart from Portage, Gentoo offers multiple system management facilities. I don't know if these will be ported, but things like rc-update (init script management) and java-config really help.
Finally, I think that what will set Gentoo-MacOS apart from Fink is the number of developper and community size. That is something that cannot be duplicated.
Re:Yea, and? (Score:2)
emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Interesting)
I've only been using linux for a few months and gentoo for a week or so but I already see how well produced it is. I used to get annoyed at gentoo zealots, but I see what they were talking about.
Oh, and the compiling software isn't that bad. I've spent more time searching for packages and dependecies than typing "emerge k3b". Don't believe all the hype of course, but don't believe the FUD either. Gentoo is where it's at!
Now to make this a little more on-topic, I'm happy that gentoo is trying to make more headway into apple hardware. I think that this will only encourage apple to help and contribute to the OSS community even more. MacOS is probably the most refined modern operating system, but giving it a little more competition can't hurt.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:4, Funny)
I mean, different stroke for different folks, certainly. But gentoo's strenth is its' ability to squeeze 0.0008 percent more processing power out of your 2.4ghz computer; not ease of use or installation. That arena is where (imho) mandrake really shines.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, that is not Gentoo's primary strength. Its strength is from the amount of flexibility that portage provides for package dependency. With binary-oriented distributions, you are forced to use the same configuration settings that were chosen by the package maintainer. Portage has the concept of "USES", which is basically a list of flags that the build uses to figure out what options to use during compilation. For example, many packages can be integrated with GNOME. I don't use GNOME. With other distributions, if the package was built with GNOME dependencies, I'd be forced to install GNOME. If the package was built without GNOME, some GNOME user wouldn't be able to take advantage of GNOME-specific features. With Portage, you can specify via the USES variable whether or not you want to have a dependancy on GNOME or not. As a side effect, you get the CPU-optimization "for free".
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
No, you would not be forced to install GNOME, you would be forced to install a few GNOME libraries, which would occupy a few megabytes and basically not be in your way otherwise. That is not really a big problem unless you make it one.
/* Steinar */
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:4, Funny)
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:3, Informative)
postfix - A high-performance mail transport agent
postfix-dev - Postfix loadable modules development environment
postfix-doc - Postfix documentation
postfix-ldap - LDAP map support for Postfix
postfix-mysql - MYSQL map support for Postfix
postfix-pcre - PCRE map support for Post
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2, Interesting)
root@emulacao matheus # USE="kerberos samba -berkdb" emerge -av openldap
These are the packages that I would merge, in order:
Calculating dependencies
[ebuild N ] app-crypt/mit-krb5-1.3.3-r1 -krb4 -static 6,210 kB
[ebuild R ] net-nds/openldap-2.1.26 -berkdb +crypt -debug +gdbm -ipv6 +kerberos -odbc +perl +readline +samba -sasl -slp +ssl +tcpd 0 kB
Total size of downloads: 6,210 kB
Do you want me to merge these packages? [Yes/No]
And here my glo
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Interesting)
Compared to a couple days to get the same results with Gentoo, which is an outstanding distro, but not the distro to break Linux onto the mainstream desktop. Any casual PC user who has built a gaming PC or even tinkered around with his Dell could get Mandrake up and usable in less than an hour, Gentoo however is another story. Of course Gentoo wasn't aimed at that market, but the parent poster can't possibly paint Gentoo as easy to install and not expect some rebuttals.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
I'm going to agree with you on all points. I bought a Shuttle SK41G, GeForce4, Athlon XP 2000+ and 2x256 DDR a few weeks ago.
Why would you get such nice components and then get such a lousy CPU? An Athlon XP 2800+ costs about $30 more.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:3, Interesting)
Now does sdl really need arts? Nope it was a packaging decision made for you by Mandrake. In order to feed the need of the unwashed masses that is what they have to do.
Gentoo's strengths are many:
1. Better optimizations
2. USE statements allow you to fine tune your system libraries
3. Upgrades to the latest version is as simple as using emerge.
4. etc...
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
That's true, but once the installation is done, I've found maintaining Gentoo software and services far easier than maintenance on Mandrake. YMMV, but I've never had good luck with any of the RPM-based systems. The speed issues are what everyone associates with Gentoo, but that's
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2, Interesting)
And the source version of Ghostscript installed to a different place than RedHat had deemed was appropriate. And uninstalling the binary version either broke everything, or didn't work, depending on how I went about doing it.
Eventually, I hacked away at it long enough to get it to work.
Gent
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
If you're going to post flamebait, at least get the facts right. You don't have to compile the gentoo kernel during installation. So nothing is "fucked up." You just didn't read the first page of installation docs that describe a "stage 3" install.
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
Who is the FUD spreading karmawhore here? Come on guys, it is getting old.
not ease of use or installation. That arena is where (imho) mandrake really shines.
Installation: Mandrake and SuSE are easier of cause for a single desktop setup. But if you have a few more machines (of the same type), it might even be easier to get a good setup with gentoo (compile once, emerge -k everywhere)
Ease of
Yes, Gentoo is nice, but this isn't exactly.... (Score:2)
I do like Gentoo, and I use it. There's nothing like installing almost any software I want with a two word command line. And if you're a GUI fan, kportage works great too.
Truthfully, I don't have the time to maintain my three home Linux boxes full time. Meaning, I can't always be re-installing them or upgrading them to the latest version of Fed
Re:Yes, Gentoo is nice, but this isn't exactly.... (Score:2)
Um, you're right. That's because it's been done already. PPC is one of the best-supported architectures after x86 on Gentoo. PPC64 is there too.
http://packages.gentoo.org/
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:2)
Figuring out how to use Redhat's moronic RPM syntax, now that's a time waste.
echo "/dev-php/mod_php oracle" >>
emer
Re:emerge karmawhore (Score:5, Funny)
Linux has changed a lot since 1957. I'm tellin' ya, these fully automated compilers are the shit!!
Gentoo MacOS? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Gentoo MacOS? (Score:5, Informative)
No--this isn't an OS (gentoo has run on the Mac hardware for sometime). Rather it is a native OS X port of portage and other gentoo utilities. It would be like calling cygwin "cygwin" (in other words Cygnus + GNU on windows).
Re:Gentoo MacOS? (Score:2)
Re:Gentoo MacOS? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Gentoo MacOS? (Score:3, Insightful)
Am I missing something? (Score:3, Interesting)
"Right now, you can use it to install TeX! Someday, you might be able to install some other stuff!"
I mean, I suppose this is kool and the gang, but what is the problem that is being solved here? Maybe I'm just not clear on the concept.
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:2)
In case you don't get it. (Score:5, Interesting)
This means (sorta, as in 'soon') that a Mac-user will be able to rebuild their own OSX box, using the Gentoo scripts, and still be able to maintain compatability with all OSX apps.
In other words, a 'better build system: a public one' has been unleashed on a commercial operating system, so that - separate from the company itself - alternative builds of the OS can be done, publically.
Why is this good? Because with Gentoo you can take personal risks that Apple can't. Gentoo allows you to build a system "Just for You", whereas Apple have to compile/link things "For Everyone".
Expect to see highly-tuned Gentoo boxes running GentooMacOS in the future, smokin' 'Factory OS' setups. I'll be digging into this a bit further, next point release sort of thing, and if I get the same results out of applying Gentoo to my OSX machine as I have with my Linux boxes, I'm excited. I may man I can put off a hardware upgrade or two and just 'Take Things To The Next Level' on my aging Powerbook...
Oh, and in case you think Apple should be 'worried about' this, it seems to me that they already get the point. With all the OS releases they've been doing lately, and the upgrades/improvements in the one area 'open source' is lacking: usability, and it seems to me that they're positioned well to be 'competing with the Open Source Base'
Re:In case you don't get it. (Score:3, Informative)
I think you forgot that while the source for Darwin, the system "under the hood" of OS X, is available, the UI is not. That means no Quartz, Spotlight or Core Image technologies, and no applications like the Finder or Expose.
Now, who would want a Mac without all this? That stuff, among other, makes it
Re:In case you don't get it. (Score:3, Interesting)
You can still -RUN- all that stuff, its just that Gentoo will let you fine-tune all the goodness (kernel, system
This one really does go up to 11.
And since its Open Source, Apple can instantly turn around, and start using it themselves.
Its not "Apple, we have a problem.", its "Apple, we have source."
They (Apple) certainly get the point...
I don't think you get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Who would want a Mac without Quartz, Spotlight, etc? I certainly wouldn't give up these features. But some people might want to use alternate desktop managers on Apple hardware. Just because you're not interested in doing so doesn't mean there is no reason for others to want to.
Besides, you don't necessarily have to forgo the Finder and Exposé to use Gentoo MacOS. It's a package manager, and as such can install a bunch of *nix tools that work alongside Mac OS X without replacing it.
Re:I don't think you get it (Score:2)
Re:In case you don't get it. (Score:3, Insightful)
My Only Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:My Only Question (Score:2)
Did you install Apple X11? (Score:2)
Apple's X11 is based on Xfree 4.3 and has pretty much replaced Xdarwin and the others. It works great and is *fast*. Even the GLX acceleration is just as fast as native Quartz/Cocoa OpenGL.
If you play around with some of the config files (or just boot to a console login and "startx"), you can even get your mac to login to an X11 desktop rather than the nati
Resistance is Futile (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Resistance is Futile (Score:2)
Re:Resistance is Futile (Score:2)
Re:Resistance is Futile (Score:2)
Granted openoffice takes forever to compile, but I bet MS office takes even longer.
Portage is not in any way limited to source-only.
how's its hygiene? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does Gentoo MacOS do the same thing? If not, why not????
Re:how's its hygiene? (Score:4, Interesting)
If it turns out that Gentoo/MacOS does install to a stupid non-standard directory, I'm going to be very unhappy.
Re:how's its hygiene? (Score:3, Insightful)
Its kinda like, install the Dev tools, then compile something from scratch, where does it go when you do 'make install'? It puts it in
There were reasons (Score:3, Informative)
And, since Apple did that when fink was setting up,
-fred
Re:how's its hygiene? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/8.pn
It seems that it puts stuff into
I don't know what the effects of that would be on an OS X system.
Re:how's its hygiene? (Score:3, Informative)
From the documentation: "Portage installs things in / and could possibly overwrite important packages that were installed by OS X. Use this technology at your own risk!".
I think I'll stick to fink for now, they could at least have used
Re:how's its hygiene? (Score:2)
Ah...But... (Score:2, Funny)
Partially working for solaris too (Score:4, Interesting)
Just something I've toyed around with. The major stumbling block is that the developers need to add the ability for portage to recognize other oses. Mine isn't really a complete project, more of a log of stuff I've done. Others have followed and managed to get things like KDE to fully install in solaris using portage.
That's why the Metapkg Alliance was formed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:That's why the Metapkg Alliance was formed (Score:3, Insightful)
option (which shows what packages will be installed, without actually installing them), and the ability to (easily*) install unstable packages on a per-package basis (you have to completely switch Fink to the unstable tree, while with portage you can
)
*I think the
Re:OK, so... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:OK, so... (Score:2, Insightful)
You may be able to get Darwin's source, but good luck getting the rest of MacOSX source. This shouldn't be called Gentoo MacOS its should be called Gentoo Darwin.
At least the MacOS zealots have something to be zealotishious about, Gentoo zealots only have zealotness to be zealotishius about. Obviously.
Re:OK, so... (Score:3, Informative)
OS X is Darwin, but OS X also includes additional software. As in all Unixes, the GUI in OS X is not an integral part of the operating system. There are even OS X users who boot to a console, and then run X if they want a GUI.
Windows XP (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh, I can't?
Apple may not release the source to its higher level frameworks, but everything you need for low-level hooks is right there in Darwin. Hell, that's most of the OS.
Re:OK, so... (Score:3, Informative)
You are free to develop console apps or develop OS X apps that run on X-Windows.
Re:OK, so... (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh the, err for want of a better word, 'Humanity'! (Score:5, Funny)
All idiotic zealtory of Gentoo with all the, well, mindless zealotry of Mac! A winning combination!
Re:Yes! Finally! Optimized MacOS! (Score:5, Funny)
See ya in 6 months.
Re:Fink? (Score:5, Informative)
Portage seems to have several advantages over the other package management tools, including the following summary from the Portage manual [gentoo.org]:
Re:I think you already can (Score:2)
It's called GentooX. A simple google would have shown that. It's not just LIKE Gentoo, it *is* gentoo.
Re:make sense? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:make sense? (Score:2)
Re:Let's get it straight... (Score:5, Insightful)
Is someone twisting your arm to install OSS stuff?
Re:Let's get it straight... (Score:5, Funny)
And I WANT a Ferrari Testarossa that gets 40 miles to the gallon. AND I want laser beams on the hood! Clear enough?
mod parent up (Score:2)
Re:Yes now you can have a bastarized OS (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Some Explination (Score:2)
I don't know for sure but I would assume this would be the case especially if portage offers binary downloads as they do for x86.
Is there a shiny gui to go w/ ? (We mac users just love our guis)
The article says there is (or perhaps will be.)
What on God's green earth is emerge ?
Emerge is just the command you use to install the programs. "emerge gimp" will compil
Why did you bother posting? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Package management and OS X (Score:3, Informative)
However, it gives you the option of having just as nice of a package management system and a huge list of open source tools that *aren't* available with a nice GUI as well. It's the be