Industrial Design Excellence Awards 2004

burgburgburg writes "The IDEA 2004 awards (Industrial Design Excellence Awards) have been announced. Apple won 2 Gold (for the iPod Mini and the G5), a Silver (for the iSight) and a Bronze (for the Apple Wireless Keyboard). Some comments: 'Like a modern touchstone the iPod Mini is a product people will love to hold. The designers skillfully integrated the satin aluminum case with flush controls and a simple touchpad interface to create a jewel-like piece of technology.' - Monty Montague, IDSA, Design Principal, BOLT. 'The G5 is impressive with visually lithe qualities and a host of thoughtful and innovative user features wrapped in aluminum. Its well-engineered technical features, such as its cooling system and internal component mounts, are honestly and elegantly executed. The G5's aesthetic is a pure and graceful expression of Apple's philosophical precept of leaving no detail un-designed. This is what results when engineering and design play nice with each other.' - Christopher Alviar, IDSA, Principal, CG/A"

Hooray for Apple

[neuro.slug]

This, of course, is not surprising news to most of us. What's confusing to me is the complete inability of other PC manufacturors to produce intelligently-designed computers. I mean, c'mon ... most PCs nowadays still require you to remove a handful of screws to get inside the case. And once you're inside, it doens't get any prettier. I have yet to see any other computer maker come close to Apple's design.

-- n

Re:Hooray for Apple

[Grant29]

The Ipod has been the subject of many different discussion on how simple it is to use. It elegant, feature packed, and only takes a few minutes to learn to use. I'm sure Apple probably has some patents on it, but I wonder why other's don't try to copy the design. Even if it's just minor changes, you should still be able to get around the patent infringements.

--
11 Gmail invitations availiable [retailretreat.com]

Re:Hooray for Apple

[Matey-O]

Because the single most compelling feature is the wheel...a feature that's patented to within an inch of it's life. _it_ is what allows you to select from one of 4000+ songs with only an occasional glance at the screen (when driving, say)

What surprises me is that noone has tried to _LICENSE_ the wheel from Apple.

There IS an iPod clone

[Anonymous Writer]

Have you seen the Creative Labs Zen Touch [creative.com]? It looks [amazon.com] so similar to the iPod and also has a touch-sensitive scrolling interface navigation method. Even the screen [amazon.com] looks nearly identical. It seems Creative Labs has done just what you said.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Hooray for Apple

[Jeff DeMaagd]

you won't find liquid cooling in a Dell, Toshiba notebooks

Dell and Compaq have been using heat pipes in _some_ designs as far back as five years ago. That is techically a phase change cooling, one of the phases are liquid. :)

You can get some IBMs and Toshibas that are designed ruggedized, I think they can be run over with heavy machinery.

Re:Hooray for Apple

[Klanglor]

Yep! but IBM has that booring Standard Formal Business Design. You do get Air-Bag technology inside your Harddisk, Titanium Chasing wrapping the case...

But the Notebook itself is ALWAYS BLACK since a good five 10-year.

Re:Made in Taiwan

[Kiryat Malachi]

What does that have to do with anything? Alphatop and the like are contract manufacturers; you give them a blueprint (well, CAD files these days) and they build your design. Apple's *design* is still better; no one claims their manufacturing is.

You're thinking of the unbranded OEMs that sell their designs into the US, where multiple brands stick their name on them with minor changes. That's totally different from a contract manufacturer.

Learn to fucking think, then come back and post, okay?

Re:Hooray for Apple

[Ed Avis]

IBM's PS/2 series were designed so that no screwdriver was needed for any user-fittable upgrade (which means most upgrades, in case you're wondering). Some of the server models did have screws to open the case but chunky ones where you could use a coin, AFAIK.

Endless Loop

[FunWithHeadlines]

" Should we make it any easier for the average user who doesn't know what they are doing to get into the computer case? "

And with that attitude, you thereby insure they remain average users who don't know what they are doing.

Re:Endless Loop

[lachlan76]

I just have the opinion that if a person is not intelligent enough to find a screwdriver, they aren't smart enough to upgrade their computer.

The people that work inside there should know what tools they need, and exactly what to do. People that don't should ask someone that does know to help them, or read a book/web site so that they have a greater understanding. If you just open a computer case, with no knowledge or tools, odds are, you either won't do what you were trying to do, or the computer may no

Re:Endless Loop

[Matthias Wiesmann]

I just have the opinion that if a person is not intelligent enough to find a screwdriver, they aren't smart enough to upgrade their computer.

The point is really not about intelligence, any idiot can wield a screwdriver and fiddle inside his PC. If normal people could not use tools, Bill Gates would still be the richest man in the world.

The point is about able to do work inside the computer fast. Inserting memory can be done in less than a minute on an Apple case, it takes a least five if you have a gen

Re:Hooray for Apple

[trashme]

By the same logic, the hood of your car should be bolted shut, only to be opened using a wrench or some other more specialized instrument.

Making it harder to get inside of your computer is just silly. If you don't want someone getting inside, put a lock on it. The "Access Is Everything [apple.com]" section shows that the latch on the G5 has a spot for a lock.

Re:Hooray for Apple

[lachlan76]

By the same logic, the hood of your car should be bolted shut, only to be opened using a wrench or some other more specialized instrument

While this is true, anyone working on the inside of a car should already have a wrench. But also, normal people do need to get into a car engine (wiper fluid, brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc.).

I'm not saying that making it harder is intentional, but if you don't know that you need a screwdriver to work on a computer, you don't know how to work on a computer.

Re:Hooray for Apple

[TheGavster]

This is why we have Torx, and for really critical applications, Torx with the little peg in the middle. The more important the component, the more obscure the fastener should be (pozidrive, anyone?)

Re:Hooray for Apple

[BlowChunx]

...ah yes, just build a better mousetrap.

I think that you just advocated DRM for hardware.

If I own it, and want mess with it I should be able to (just not under warranty).

Re:Hooray for Apple

[TheGavster]

You're telling me you don't have a tamper proof torx set?

Unlike RIAA/MPAA DRM, the key is in the hands of those who own it and are qualified to mess with it. Its much like restricted user accounts; some things the average use should not touch.

Re:Hooray for Apple

[cowscows]

How did you learn how to fix hardware? I'm guessing most of the people on slashdot started by fearlessly cracking open their computer case, without any real clue what they'd find inside. And I bet I'm not the only one that first did it at least 10 years ago, before we all had easy access to the internet, where we could quickly find lots of specs and photographs to help us. Trial and error is one of the best ways to learn, and computers are getting cheaper all the time, so why not let someone poke around inside?

Yeah, if someone in my family was touching the inside of my computer, I'd be upset too. Not because they didn't know what they're doing, but because it's MY computer, paid for by me, and them messing with it is just disrespectful. If I was still living at home, and it was the Family computer, I don't have much right to complain, even if I did spend most every waking hour on it. My mom has just as much right to look inside that computer as I do. In fact, I wish she would, because the more she learns, the more she can fix herself, and the less I get annoyed.

Re:Hooray for Apple

[lachlan76]

It's not the people that don't know what they're doing that should be kept out, but the people that think they know what they're doing. I'm sure somepeople think that understanding what the CPU and RAM is is enough experience to just upgrade without any understanding of how everything goes together.

You are not stupid if you don't know, only if you don't try to learn, or you think you know more than you do.

Would you give someone the root password if they didn't know what they were doing?

I probably sho

Re:Hooray for Apple

[cowscows]

I wouldn't give them the root password to my computer, but I'd certainly allow them root access to their own computer if that's what they wanted. I'd just inform them that with it, they have the capability of really mess things up, and so they should be ready for the consequences of it.

Hey, I hear ya with the being 14 and a computer is the focal point of your life. I'm 24 now, but I was the exact same way (actually, I was 15 when it started, but close enough). I still spend most of my free time on the computer; and I'm still, for the most part, too poor to buy a new one, so I try to be very careful around my stuff.

But I think the point still is that the computer manufacturers should not take the responsibility for keeping people out of a machine by making it hard to open. Almost every computer you can buy (including the G5's), has some of locking mechanism by which you could keep others out. Usually it just involves throwing a padlock on a latch, but it's quite effective.

Although the whole music thing you mentioned is sort of off-topic, I'll comment on that too. I've never really cared all that much about music, but I do remember being your age, and how important music was to my classmates and all. Whenever you talked to someone (especially girls), the third or fourth question was usually "soooo...what kind of music do you like?". I'm guessing it was some sort of ice-breaker comment, but I remember not liking it, because I never had a good answer for it, and it seemed like a pretty shallow question anyways. But don't worry about that too much, music stops mattering in that way when you get older. I mostly just listen to it on the radio when I'm driving nowadays, and I listen to everything, from classic rock, to contemporary whatever it's called now, and even a lot of that 60's and 70's oldies stuff. My mom would always listen to that when driving us to school or wherever. So it's kind of like it's the music I grew up with, even though it was written when my mom was young. I don't think knowing that helps you at all, but I'm just sharing.

I'm not trying to complain about your outlook on life. I was just suggesting that an opinion you expressed about a very specific aspect of computers was incorrect, and I tried to offer reasons why. Please don't take debate or criticism as complaints about your outlook on life.

Re:Hooray for Apple

[waynelorentz]

Should we make it any easier for the average user who doesn't know what they are doing to get into the computer case? Or would we all be better off by only allowing people who at least have a screwdriver or a hex driver into the case. I would really be scared to see someone in my family touching the inside of my computer.

Sounds like Microsoft's philosophy towards software.

Re:Hooray for Apple

[Lars T.]

So I take you are not one of those complaining that "you can't upgrade an iMac"?

Apple Wireless Keyboard

[kinema]

Is the Apple Wireless Keyboard a standards abiding Bluetooth device? Is there any reason I couldn't use one on a PC running Linux? I just wasn't sure that Apple had used the standard keyboard profile (or whatever it is called in the Bluetooth spec) or if they had 'improved' it in some way that would keep me from using it with another OS.

Re:Apple Wireless Keyboard

[adzoox]

You can use it on a PC - but note that the windows key (command key) is out of place.

You might need a keyboard remapper kext to remedy tht and might want to take mineral oil to the two keys that are out of place.

It's the same thing though as PC keyboards.

I use an Eluminx glow keyboard that is PS2 with my Macs. The Windows key is on the keyboard and I just did what I told you above.

The Apple bluetooth keyboard even works with my Ericsson cellphone.

Re:Apple Wireless Keyboard

[shione]

You can use it on a PC - but note that the windows key (command key) is out of place.

As an FPS gamer, I see that as a blessing :)

Re:Apple Wireless Keyboard

[Analog Penguin]

I have a Logitech keyboard as well, and one irritating thing is that unless you have Logitech's (absolutely shit) drivers installed, the key labeled Alt/Apple/Command actually acts as an option button, and the Start/Alt/Option acts as Command.

Re:Apple Wireless Keyboard

[Chucker23N]

As the Apple *wired* Keyboard and Mouse work just fine with most USB-supporting operating systems (the Apple button gets turned into a Windows button, etc.) without any need for additional drivers, I doubt it'd be different for the Bluetooth versions.

On the other hands, the FireWire iSight does currently, AFAIK, *not* work with other operating systems.

Re:Apple Wireless Keyboard

[line.at.infinity]

As the Apple *wired* Keyboard and Mouse work just fine with most USB-supporting operating systems

I know OS X has support for multi-buttoned mice, but Apple makes only one-buttoned mice, AFAIK. This might be a problem because non-mac apps are designed with the expectation that users have at least two buttons.

Re:Apple Wireless Keyboard - Review?

[ratsnapple tea]

I don't know what other reviews you saw, but there's definitely no lag, and the keyboard and mouse are both 128-bit encrypted with adaptive frequency hopping (whatever that means), which I believe is the standard. C'mon, would you expect anything less from Apple? :-P

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ [apple.com]

Other Cool stuff as well

[jellomizer]

Going thew the site I have found some real good ones (Non Computer related) Like a Hammer [idsa.org] I find it amazing that after millions of years of humans making hammers that they can still improve on it. It really gives me great faith in the advancement of science that we can improve anything for years to come. Also I found it odd that the best interface was for Mohawk Paper Mills [mohawkpaper.com] While it is nice and all I didn't find the interface a wow that is so much more intuitive to use then any other site. But still I find it is nice that it won because I drive by the mill every day to get to work (With its huge smoke stacks billowing out tons of steam).

Re:Other Cool stuff as well

[general_re]

I find it amazing that after millions of years of humans making hammers that they can still improve on it.

Define "improve". These are design awards, not necessarily functionality awards - it's a very pretty hammer, I guess, but it also costs three times more than an ordinary claw hammer that will last just as long. Something makes me doubt that it's actually three times better at pounding nails, and the guys I know who regularly work with hand tools really don't strike me as the type to worry about whe

Re:Other Cool stuff as well

[trashme]

What about the hammer moving the center of gravity towards the head of the hammer? Or the curved top so nail removal has a smaller chance of damaging the surface?

The hammer may not be worth its price, but don't say they did not improve functionality when designing this hammer.

Re:Other Cool stuff as well

[general_re]

What about the hammer moving the center of gravity towards the head of the hammer?

As long as it's putting its mass on the nail, that should suffice. I'm sure we can imagine perverse hammers that don't really do that, but truthfully, ever since some guy first added lever action by tying a handle to his flat rock some thousands of years ago, everything since then has just been tweaking ;)

Or the curved top so nail removal has a smaller chance of damaging the surface?

Virtually all claw hammers have a cu

Re:Other Cool stuff as well

[Taos]

The balance of the hammer plays a large part in how it feels to handle at the end of the day. With more weight toward the head of the hammer, your wrist will tire faster. However, it does feel heavier to the user, and when pounding nails through 2x4's, it seems faster.

Go to Home Depot and pick up two 20 oz hammers. One with a wooden handle, and the other with the head formed as a single piece with the shaft. You'll be able to tell the difference immediately. Preference is up to you.

Now, as for functi

Re:Other Cool stuff as well

[cosmo7]

Define "improve".

Improve used to mean to make good use what was available (this meaning lives on as improvise).

So when Washington said "True policy, as well as good faith, in my opinion, binds us to improve the occasion." he didn't mean he was bound to make the occasion better, rather he was bound to make good use of the opportunity presented.

Now improve means to enhance, so the word is recursive.

Re:Other Cool stuff as well

[Halo1]

I agree that hammer is really cool, but the quote at the end completely obliterates any positive vibes you may get from looking at that picture:

Takes technology to the next step to meet the demands of today's market

I guess it was even cut off and originally continued as

... in a synergy of modern aesthetics and traditional craftsmanship, culminating in improved productivity by addressing contemporary challenges and empowering businesses everywhere by enabling them to evolve new paradigms in creating

Re:Other Cool stuff as well

[pipingguy]

I found it odd that the best interface was for Mohawk Paper Mills While it is nice and all I didn't find the interface a wow that is so much more intuitive to use then any other site

No kidding - Flash main page with no link to a site map or an HTML version.

Re: What the carpenter thinks

[line.at.infinity]

How hard would it be to screw up on making a good hammer?

An Idea

[cpuffer_hammer]

Since lots of design focused people may read this.

Build cell phones with the number pad at the top and the screen at the bottom. this makes using the keys on a small phone easy for western hands that are often bigger.

Charles Puffer

Re:An Idea

[Qbertino]

Right on. Mod parent up.
I had that Idea myself. Maybe we should put together and patent it. :-)

Re:An Idea

[lachlan76]

this makes using the keys on a small phone easy for western hands that are often bigger.

There is the slight issue of my thumb covering the screen. Hard to SMS when I can't see. And I do have a small phone, a T100, so I would know.

Re:An Idea

[fermion]

I have often wished that apple would build a cell phone, and the buttons are a big reason why. The form factor of the phone is determined by the buttons and the screen. The buttons are getting smaller and the screen is getting larger. In fact, the buttons are so small as to be useless.

I almost never dial a call. The only reason the buttons are needed is to program the phone. Otheriwse the phone features often negate the need to manually dial a call. If the phone synched with my mac, then there would

Re:An Idea

[Anonymous Writer]

According to this article [smh.com.au], "Apple has just hived off iPod into a separate division under Jon Rubenstein, formerly head of hardware development. Despite protestations, maybe there really is a video iPod (or PDA-Pod or mobile phone-Pod) in the works.".

For all you know, there will be a cellphone designed by Apple. I imagine if they use the iPod Touch Wheel for an interface, it would bring back the act of rotationally "dialing" a phone number.

Actually in the past year or two

[adzoox]

Actually in the past year or two -

Apple designs have been very lackluster in my opinion.

The G5 is nice looking but was a BIG step backwards. Removal of one PCI slot and removal of a second 5.25" expansion bay.

The keyboard that won here doesn't match - the white does not match the Pro line like the silver and black Pro input devices did.

The only real update to the iMac line in the last year has been a 20" screen - which is nice but that design one it's awards 2 years ago.

If the rumors are true about the new 20 23 & 30 inch displays coming - they too will be a step backward from the current design.

Apple should be winning kudos for software lately. Hardware, I'm not so sure

The iPod has admittedly gotten better.

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[jellomizer]

While the removal of a PCI slot and a second 5.25" bay is a slight tradeoff I don't see it as a major step backwards. While anyone can blurt out a hundred of reasons why you may need the extra bays and slots. But the truth is that most people won't use them. External USB and Firewire devices are getting more affordable and closer to the prices of internal equipment (unlike 10 years ago where where was a huge difference) PCI slots are no longer as important as they were before especially with integrated Modems, Sound, Ethernet, and Video (Well Video is rarely pci based anymore) There isn't much need anymore for PCI like they use to. With USB memory sticks becoming very affordable with a large sizes (a 512k stick $80) There is not much of a need for extra 5.25 bays for extra Optical Drives for most uses. Yes there will be some people who will need more space but most dont.

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[adzoox]

There are other things that go into a bay besides optical drives - but a second optical drive that rips faster than the SuperDrive is a big plus.

A second bay on a Mac is different than a second bay on a PC. Apple chooses the drives for you by default and leaves no room for expansion.

I agree that external drives are actually better and more useful, but clutter is an issue with most of my clients in ad agencies. There are 15-20 packed in a 20x30 room. Having zip drives, card readers, CD burners strown about

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[mgv]

yone can blurt out a hundred of reasons why you may need the extra bays and slots. But the truth is that most people won't use them. External USB and Firewire devices are getting more affordable and closer to the prices of internal equipment (unlike 10 years ago where where was a huge difference) PCI slots are no longer as important as they were before especially with integrated Modems, Sound, Ethernet, and Video (Well Video is rarely pci based anymore) There isn't much need anymore for PCI like they use to. With USB memory sticks becoming very affordable with a large sizes (a 512k stick $80) There is not much of a need for extra 5.25 bays for extra Optical Drives for most uses.

I have to agree. Apple does remove things when they aren't needed. They got rid of the floppy drive.

I don't hear anyone on /. saying that that was a step backwards, although it raised a few eyebrows at the time

Same goes for PCI slots. The bandwidth of Firewire (more than USB 2.0, which is a bit of a hack) plus its expandability in the future to 800 and 1600 MB/s means that most users don't need the speed of a PCI slot.

Note that they have done much the same on their iBooks and PowerBooks - Go find a PC card slot on them - because firewire and USB2.0 provide sufficient bandwidth to replace the PC card slot need. Plus all the above comments about integrated sound/video/ethernet/modem and so on.

The need for these older technologies just isn't there anymore.

Michael

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[line.at.infinity]

With USB memory sticks becoming very affordable with a large sizes (a 512k stick $80) There is not much of a need for extra 5.25 bays for extra Optical Drives for most uses.

Cost-wise, memory sticks are still extremely godawful. In comparison, a 20GB iPod costs $10 per 500KB, CD-Rs go for 0.04 CENTS per 512KB. And DVD-Rs are way cheaper. But I don't see how a second burner could help too much for normal users. All macs come with a burner these days.

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[jellomizer]

• I wasn't listening to Steve (I never listen to Steve because he is in marketing I tend to wait for the product to prove itself), I was going from my own professional experience with companies and individual people. Most of the time when people decide to buy a computer they get it pre-installed with all that they want and will not add extras. Perhaps 1 or at most 2 will be added for the functional life of the Computer but that is usually rare
• There is a "Snob Factor" that you are forgetting. Where people

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[blakespot]

It is part of the elegance of the Apple solution to offer as the standard solution a combination CD/CD-RW/DVD/DVD-RW drive, the SuperDrive. There is no elegance in splitting this across two optical drives. Yes, doing so will allow you the user the absolute fastest CD writer and the seldom-used speed advantage in a disc-to-disc copy scenario, but for the VAST majority of users, there is zero benefit to two optical drives.

As for the removal of a PCI slot, how is even the rather above-average user held back by this? The G5 has on-board optical in/out, FireWire 400 & 800, USB 2.0, Serial ATA, GHz ethernet, modem, bluetooth (opt), 802.11g wireless (opt), and all AGP vidcards can drive two screens. What, exactly, does even the hardcore Mac user need in the missing 4th PCI slot? 3 PCI-X slots seems not even remotely a limitation.

There is and always has been a distinctly superior "feel" to Macintosh hardware. It is a fortunate thing that now that feel is matched by unmatched stability, functionality, and performance.

blakespot

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[fermion]

This again shows the difference between the Mac and PC design. In most cases, the PC is designed to meet a low price point. Anything that can be removed is removed. Extra expansion slots are important because what is being sold is a bare bones system. To gain reasonable functionilty, boards will have to be added. This is not neccesarily a bad thing. It does require a level of technical know how.

OTOH, Apple tries to include the basics. This is not always possible, even at the higher price point. Ho

Re:Actually in the past year or two

[cowscows]

Other people have already spoke about the G5, so I won't say too much there.

About the keyboard not matching with the aluminum of the mac...so what? I wouldn't want an aluminum keyboard anyways. And besides, it matches with the imac and emac just fine. My white iPod doesn't match my 4 year old black powerbook, but you know what? They look just fine sitting next to each other on my desk.

Yeah, the iMac design hasn't been changed in a while. That's why it didn't get any awards this year. If you're hoping for a new machine sometime, that's fine, but the fact that they haven't released one doesn't speak poorly of their design abilities.

And it's not really fair to criticize based on rumors. The closest thing to pictures that we've seen on the rumor sites are "artists renditions", which we've seen before, and which have had varying degrees of accuracy. Wait till they're announced in a few days, then feel free to bash them ;)

Whether or not you like all of Apple's designs, you have to accept that they're trying a lot harder than any other computer manufacturers, and it seems to be working for them. Sometimes with awards (G5), and sometimes with awards and lots of money (iPods).

RE: steps backwards?

[King_TJ]

I'm not so sure about that... For starters, why would the new displays be a step backwards from current models? It looks to me like they're making them in aluminum enclosures to better match the G5 and aluminum Powerbooks, so that just makes good sense from a design standpoint. Also, the decision to change them back to an industry-standard DVI video connection allows them to work with Windows PCs as well as Macs. That means more potential sales for Apple, but also means those of us who own a G5 but a W

PC is a component, Apple is an appliance

[Gothmolly]

I have friends who never even WANT to open their computer, and they happen to have Macs. Want to add storage? Buy an external, supported FW drive. Network? Built in.
PC owners are a different breed. They LIKE opening the case. They LIKE planning their next upgrade. They LIKE replacing heatsinks and then benchmarking the performance improvements.
This being said, the vast majority of people really should buy Macs.
But don't pretend that PCs and Macs are the same, just with a different OS and mouse - they're different concepts.

Re:PC is a component, Apple is an appliance

[Stevyn]

That's a pretty unrealistic generalization in my opinion. I know few people who will crack open their case. I think you could make that generalization about linux users and further geek-ify that operating system. I've always thought that mac owners are people who are willing to spend the extra money for style and for a computer that generally works with no effort at all. I don't think that's bad at all. If you're not interested in computers then why should geeks on slashdot care? I enjoy cracking comp

Re:PC is a component, Apple is an appliance

[Gothmolly]

I rarely reply to my own posts, but since people seem to be Missing The Point, I'll clarify:
This being said, the vast majority of people really should buy Macs.
Most home users WANT the appliance. Geeks and businesses want functionality; in the case of the geek (no pun intended) they want to fiddle. In the case of businesses, they want a box that does stuff for the cheapest cost.

A home user, a typical user, wants a box thats quiet, looks nice, doesn't crash or get viruses all the time, plays MP3s, video

Have you bought a PC lately?

[caitsith01]

If you think something like 'built in networking' is an Apple-only feature, maybe you should look at the way the PC market has evolved over the last 2 years. Most motherboards now come standard with:

- network
- USB 1 + 2
- firewire
- sound, usually Dolby Digital 5.1 with optical output (my Mac friends with older models still can't believe this is 'standard' given they have to shell out over $100 for this honour)
- RAID and SATA

Basically, the only things that are replaceable are those that are likely to BE rep

Re:PC is a component, Apple is an appliance

[Chief Typist]

This is so true.

I also find it interesting that the typical car analogy fits in with this thought. Apple is like a BMW -- it comes from the factory configured with good components that you don't NEED to mess with it. I own a 1995 M3 and have never wanted to add or change anything -- it's the best damn car I've ever had.

A 1995 Chevy/Ford/Chrysler, on the other hand, has been (or will soon be) modified.

Nothing wrong with either approach -- just like the parent post says: it's a different concept.

-ch

Re:PC is a component, Apple is an appliance

[Glendale2x]

PC owners are a different breed. They LIKE opening the case. They LIKE planning their next upgrade. They LIKE replacing heatsinks and then benchmarking the performance improvements.

I wouldn't generalize that much. I use a Mac as my primary system and I love to crack open the case on my PC's and screw around with the insides. Just recently I replaced some fans in a server, added some FXO cards to build a home PBX, and fixed a power supply with my trustly soldering iron because I didn't want to buy a new on

Re:PC is a component, Apple is an appliance

[commodoresloat]

PC owners are a different breed. They LIKE opening the case.

I see your point, but what mainstream PC manufacturer builds a case that you can open with a lever, without even touching a screwdriver? I like opening my computer case. That's one of the many things I love about my G4.

The lesson

[lachlan76]

The reason Apple make good designs is that rather than trying to fit as much as they can onto everything, they try to take as much off, so that there isn't anything unneccesary.

Take the iPod Mini for instance, they only have one control, but they have all the functions that you could do with 6 buttons (left, right, buttons 1-4).

However, The most important lesson is that we should all make everything out of Aluminium. take a look at Lian Li [lianli.com] cases, which are also very attractive ;)

Re:The lesson

[Twirlip of the Mists]

It's like some kind of reflex for you, isn't it?

Great for apple...

[swiftstream]

I love apple products. They're beautiful. And I'm just hoping I won't get modded down for what I'm about to say, given that this is the apple section.

However, of all the things there, I really think this one [idsa.org] is the coolest. I want one of those!

And there's a cameo appearance [idsa.org] by apple as well.

Great book

[tsangc]

If you're interested in Apple's corporate design, there's an excellent book called Apple Design: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group--

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/18 88 001259/103-7823380-3150263?v=glance

I found it while ago at a bookstore and it's quite good.

Re:Great book

[lewp]

I'd give you the referral if you were bright enough to make it a clickable link. Alas.

Re:Great book

[tsangc]

I thankyou for the link, but $188 for a book about Apples design history? I wouldn't mind so much if there was an ipod mini that comes with it. It's even worse for price when it got so many negative reviews. I'm a mac user and it could be an interesting read, but i think only the die hards would get this to fuel their showboating skills towards other mac users.

It wasn't $188 when I bought it a few years ago...more like $48 Canadian. About right for a design/architecture book.

I don't even own a Macint

G5 Award is Well Deserved

[Brackney]

I just got a G5 this week (my first Mac in years since a 6100) and I was blown away when I took it out of the box. I can't remember when I last saw a piece of computer hardware that made me just want to inspect its every nook and cranny. The CPU is such a beautiful example of form, function and fit. Simply gorgeous. Now if Apple would only rethink their keyboard and mouse designs - mine immediately went back in the box to be replaced w/ Logitech wireless hardware.

As for OS X - lots of good human factors engineering at work there as well. There are a few aspects of window management that I dearly miss from my Linux boxen though like middle mouse button paste and the window-embedded menu bars. The latter is a real pain on multi-display machines that force you to mouse to the other end of the desktop just to access a non-hotkeyed menu option. I've gotta spend some time surfing, because I have to believe someone's made a hack for the middle mouse button paste at the very least.

Re:CPU

[Brackney]

Mea culpa! I was being sloppy. I meant the main case. I was wanted to be specific in my comments, because I think the keyboard and mouse are not in the same league, design-wise, as the system itself.

Re:software for mb-paste comes with the mouse

[Brackney]

Yup, I'd already set it to generate a CMD-V, which gets me pretty close to the UNIX 3-button equivalent. I still miss just being able to highlight text and center click to paste it. Oh, and X11/terminals in OS X DO allow highlight/center paste, so that's nice, but the paradigm is inconsistent...

So I guess that leaves my only nits w/ OS X windowing being:

1) The single menu bar for all windows, which is a real pain for multi-monitor operation.

2) No ability to customize mouse/window focus behavior. I'm a

I live in England, you insensitive clod!

[carou]

Like a modern touchstone the iPod Mini is a product people will love to hold

Hah. Chance would be a fine thing.

one thing

[dncsky1530]

If you notice, everything that won an award, is, no matter how complex, relatively simple.
None of the winning products had useless features or sails hanging off the side. These products had what they needed, and only that, to fulfill their purpose. take the winning website design [idsa.org], it is one of the most basic and simple designs for a site you can probably find, its simple to navigate, and is quite fast.
What is hard to understand is that why more compaines - mainly pc hardware companies don't take note. There weren't any tower PCs on the list, or websites filled with pop-up and banner ads. I think we can all learn alot if we just pay attention.

Re:one thing

[rubicon7]

How, exactly, is shockwave "basic and simple?"

I would think that straight HTML would be the simplest (barring plain text, of course) - throw in some CSS and you could make a very nice site, *without* requiring a plugin of a modern, standards-compliant browser.

On a related note, is it my imaginaton, or is the purpose of the IDSA pretty much just to stroke the egos of of artists and the corporations that have hired them?

Re:one thing

[Fred_A]

basic as in
- can't bookmark
- can't index
- doesn't work everywhere

basic as in "Welcome to the 1980s" kind of basic ?

I still think people that design web interfaces around that plugin should be banned to the asteroid belt.

Re:one thing

[Fred_A]

When the whole site has been designed with flash, as is the case here, you can only bookmark the page that calls the flash file, not a page within the "flash site". In essence you can only bookmark the homepage.

The indexing engines cannot follow links internal to a flash sites so the content that is in the file will not be indexed. Therefore a web site designed as a flash file cannot be found through a search. And when it will be found through a search (whenever the clueless designers will have win, should

Re:one thing

[trashme]

Ooh, you must be a "web designer". It means the flashy stuff isn't text, so it can't be indexed and searched.

Ooo, you must be a "prick". There was once a time when PDF documents on the web could not be searched. Go write a utility to extract text out of flash, and there ya go. You can then find flash animations containing the squiggly lines you so desire.

Re:one thing

[hattig]

The Award Winning "Website" doesn't render anything apart from a copyright message and a credits message. Yeah, I guess that qualifies as simple.

Unless I installed a third party plugin of course, but really all that does is run a weblication inside the browser, it is hardly a website.

Hilarious Nike Golf Tees

[PunkXRock]

Elsewhere on the site in the Design Explorations area, you'll find these [idsa.org] Nike golf tees. They look cool, and maybe they even have some good ideas (though if the ground is too frozen to drive a tee in, maybe it's not yet golf-season). But the quote about the "Mojo" tee is just frickin' priceless:

"'The Mojo' tee has a liquid center brewed from turf from Scotland, sand from Pebble Beach, tears from the Nike Goddess and sweat from Tiger Woods."

Yeah...

Nice to hold.

[torpor]

... Like a modern touchstone the iPod Mini is a product people will love to hold ...

The reason for this is simple: iPod is pure Bar of Soap.

The "Bar of Soap" design methodology simply states: the most initimate 'implement' most people use these days, is the bar of soap. A bar of soap goes where no other implement goes. It is held and used in loving trust.

Design any consumer device to match the parameters of a bar of soap, and it will be loved...

Re:Nice to hold.

[EricHsu]

Design any consumer device to match the parameters of a bar of soap, and it will be loved...

I use Dr. Bronner's Liquid Soap [drbronner.com], you insensitive clod!

Re:iPod Minis...

[zors]

I thought they werent that great either, but once you actually hold one, you see what they were talkking about. i wouldn't trade my 40 gig ipod for the world, but the mini is a pretty well designed music player.

Re:Get off your high horse

[zors]

i'm just saying that they ought to reserve judgement until they've taken one out for a spin. What's so bad about that?

Re:iPod Minis...

[Anonymous Coward]

I never realized that you could photoshop a physical object.

I generally don't pay attention to marketing pictures, and they really are nothing special in the pictures, but hold one in your hand.

Re:Who is tired of the billions of Apple articles

[pedantic bore]

Well, the Apple-is-pretty (and Google-is-blessed, and SCO-is-evil) articles do serve one useful purpose: they remind us that the success of the personal computer and related techno-gizmos has brought powerful forces to bear on the nerdly world. It no longer matters how clean the code is; it matters how nifty the case is. It's no longer just enough to come up with a good idea; it must be marketed. And it's no longer as easy as creating something useful and sharing it with the world; now there are lawyers

I think the point is, why is this about Apple?

[caitsith01]

This story should be here, but why is it about Apple?

The first thing when you go to the site: "The 130 winners of the 2004 Industrial Design Excellence Award (IDEA) won are listed in the categories listed below."

130 winners!!? And Apple won a whole 4 awards! Well, I guess this story should be filed under 'Apple' and not 'computer stuff' or 'inventions' or 'design' or whatever. There are 12 categories and each one seems to have 3-6 gold awards in it, so there are about 30-40 gold awards, let alone silver and bronze.

A great many people here like Apple, respect Apple, but do not think the light shines out of the lower orifices of Apple. There is really no reason to classify this as an 'Apple' story. It would make a great story about modern design aesthetics, but instead some Apple fan decides to post it as an Apple-centric piece of news. Nokia, IBM, and Samsung seem to have done quite well too - but this would never be posted under 'IBM roxx your world' or 'Samsung recognised as world's greatest computer designer' or whatever. So why antagonise the non-Apple-fanboy majority by needlessly politicising this story?

That is a load of crap

[revscat]

It no longer matters how clean the code is; it matters how nifty the case is.

Completely untrue, both in the case of Apple and Google.

For Apple, the software they write is tight, powerful, well designed, and elegant. You can reach common functions easily, and the consistency between applications means you don't ever have to do such things as guessing whether "Preferences" is under "File" or "Window".

OS X, iLife, and other Apple software are examples of what well-designed software should be. As a software architect, I am consistently impressed at the dedication Apple has for putting out not only beautiful but rock-solid pieces of software.

Re:That is a load of crap

[Davoid]

In Mac OS X I find that "Preferences" are under neither "File" nor "Window"... but under 'whatever theappnameis'. System Preferences are both in the Dock and in Apple Menu.

In Linux (Gnome) I find that "Preferences" are under "Edit". Global user preferences are under main menu --> "Preferences". Global system preferences are under main menu --> "System Settings".

Either setup seems to make sense.

The thing that seems to throw off most users is that to "Quit" an application in Mac OS X one has to go to

Re:Who is tired of the billions of Apple articles

[jellomizer]

Well Slashdot could be like some other sites and just put out news of all the cool stuff and awards that Microsoft produced and won. Apple products are often ahead of its time in a lot of details. So viewing apple products is like seeing what will be available in the future. Besides there is a lot of stuff that Slashdot doesn't display on the site that is apple related. Checkout out macslash and many of the apple related sites it will make slashdot seem calm in comparison. Basically now that OSX is unix based it has became Geek Friendly.

Then you have at least two options

[Anonymous Coward]

1. You could write to your local congressman asking him or her to pass a law that compels the owners of internet sites like Slashdot to make provision for editorial control for story selection to be vested in the hands of the users (specifically, you).

Or 2. you could just scroll down to the next story.

Re:Who is tired of the billions of Apple articles

[Gropo]

Learn how to use the filter [slashdot.org], Stanley!

Re:Who is tired of the billions of Apple articles

[caitsith01]

Why should we miss out on a story about innovative designs of all kinds just because we are sick of hundreds of boring pro-Apple stories? The issue is partly categorisation, not just the high numbers of Apple stories.

Re:Moderation

[HarbV7.0]

Well it's great to see that you speak for all of us here at /. Thinking for myself was really starting to warp my fragile little mind. Stating that you are not a Troll doesn't make you any less of one. And the flame bait is a nice added touch. Speaking as someone who uses Apple every day at work in an IT environment I welcome the Apple stories here. As pointed out earlier OS X is UNIX and if you hadn't noticed a lot of *NIX users frequent this place. So what's the big surprise that a lot of Mac stories sh

Re:Moderation

[trudyscousin]

"Criticising those who blindly love and follow Apple is not a 'troll.'"

That's the problem in a nutshell: Trolls seem to think it's a blind love that Macintosh enthusiasts have for their computer equipment. It isn't. Articles such as this one help to explain why we love the hardware. There certainly have been enough of them to explain why we love the software.

But trolls blithely ignore all of this, preferring to think of Apple enthusiasts as some sort of cult, "following" a leader. Perhaps it's some sort of diminished intellect that can wrap itself around no other concept than that.

If you dislike the Apple coverage on Slashdot so much, remember that's what filtering is for. Are you also sufficiently addled that you cannot use it?

Re:Sure, the G5 is nice...

[alfredo]

The fireWire and USB2 Ports are there to be used.

Re:Sure, the G5 is nice...

[JeffTL]

I suppose that if you actually need two you can either use FireWire 800 or add a SCSI card.

Re:Consumer computer stuff

[adzoox]

Actually the X Serve won it last year.

"Last year the company nabbed two Gold IDEAs (for its 12- and 17-inch PowerBooks) and one Silver (for its Xserve), while in 2002 it won five total: four Gold for its retail Apple Stores, its Macworld Conference & Expo San Francisco presence, its flat-panel iMac and its iPod; and one Silver for its revamped iBook."

Servers and rackmount cases are included - there's just a lot of lackluster design on these fronts.

Sun and SGI used to win IKEA awards for their servers and their blades.

Re:Consumer computer stuff

[orkysoft]

Sun and SGI used to win IKEA awards for their servers and their blades.

That was for their self-assembly kits ;-)

Re:yeah we all know they are pretty

[Kiryat Malachi]

It's a DESIGN award, not a technology award.

The whole point is that things that look nice win; if someone had a beautiful box with a 286 in it that served some function, it would be considered.

Re:Good design or pretty design?

[Kiryat Malachi]

Uhm, I can use it without looking at it at all. You memorize the positional relationship of the 4 buttons - back, menu, playpause, forward. The scroll wheel is just that. Since they're indented into the case, you can feel their locations. Someone who's blind wouldn't have any trouble using the buttons.

The bigger problem for a blind person is one I don't believe any MP3 player has solved - they all rely on an LCD. How do you navigate when you can't *see* the navigation interface?

Re:What about practicality?

[oscast]

>What would Apple be without the "elegant" design of the hardware?

They would be in the same boat that they are now... a competitively priced computer that has more functionality than the competition.. but without an attractive case.

>To me it would be an overpriced computer system...

I'm curious hy you would say that considering the fact that a Mac is typically the same price (sometimes less) than a comperably equipped PC. PCs allow you to buy less and therefore pay less, but that does not make them less expensive... but rather, more configurable.

>You really have to think hard.... is ease of use worth sacrificing features

No. Thankfully, buying a Mac doesn't require that you sacrifice features.

>(is full screen view in the free Quicktime player YET?

No, and yet there are many players that can play full screen mode. It's not as if Macs can only play one file format with one player.

>and... 2 mouse buttons anyone???)

Curious, why don't you offer the same conclusion for PC manufacturers? They can use a one button mnouse two... much in the same way that a Mac can use multi-button mice.

>and software availability (Linux & Windows--- Max Payne & Photoshop on the same computer.. imagine that).

Same goes for a Macintosh.

>Why pay $500-$1000 more for a computer and get less...

I don't know. Thankfully, you don't get less when you buy a Mac. You will pay more because you get more. A PC equipped with the same specs will cost you the same ammount. You can buy less and therefore pay less when buying a PC, but that does not make it less expensive... but rather, more configurable.

>Maybe once the Mac easy and simple world merges with the PC do everything cheaply world then I will be sold...

It is nad has been for quite some time. It appears to me that you simply have been stuck in the same rut for so long that you don't even see yourself considering a Mac.

>but right now Apple MACs are just pretty boxes to me.

It really is too bad you dont see it for 99% of all the other advantages it has.

>I hope this doesn't sound too anti-Apple

No. I think you're just ignorant.

Apple and the PC market

[Infonaut]

It seems to me that you're picking and choosing your points of comparison here. Apple has a rather focused approach to designing computers, which emphasizes the overall interaction between user and computer. Their intention has never been to cover all potential markets.

They've never offered a bargain-basement computer because they want their brand to be associated with quality hardware. While sometimes their products suffer defects, in general I have found their hardware to be far above the industry average in longevity and ease of use.

According to your comment, the G5 has speed you might have to pay half as much to get in a PC. This is one of those price comparisons that is of course impossible to refute. Sure, there's a PC out there that runs as fast as a G5 and costs half as much. But the problem with such comparisons is that you can use whatever PC you want to represent the price point. Are all PCs truly created equal? Of course not. If you want to compare price based solely on processor speed, you're simply ruling out all of the other factors that go into selecting a computer.

For example, you take Apple to task because you don't want to buy and eMac or iMac, and you want something that the PC world provides in abundance - a box that lets me mix & match to get the features I want at a reasonable price. You're comparing the entire PC market against one company. Does Dell offer every single variation you'd like? Does Gateway? Does HP?

You also mention that Macs really are far more hassle-free.. I assume you're referring to the operating system. So even the top-end PCs suffer from more hassles. How do those hassles translate in terms of overall cost? That's tough to estimate, but consider that Mac users have truly insignificant security and malware problems when compared to Windows users.

Your comment about Jobs being overly concerned about the G5's noise is a bit odd. If he hadn't insisted on making a nice quiet new G5, would you have gotten on him for not fixing it? Apple doesn't always succeed in making the best overall user experience, but it's truly at the core of how they see themselves in the market. Of course they're going to try hard to make a quieter machine.

It seems to me that you're frustrated most of all with Apple's philosophy. Apple doesn't want to make low-cost, commodity boxes, because they know that in the long run that's an extremely dangerous game. Look at all of the "cheapest" PC companies that have come and gone over the years. Macs will never dominate the computer market, but Apple has never been in better shape and is continuing to innovate and expand into new markets. Just look at their forays into digital hub software, niche professional software, online music retailing, portable music players, server systems, and supercomputer projects.

They are very much a design-driven company. To them, and to a lot of their customers, a computer isn't just a tool. This is in Apple's DNA, just like sacrificing all to achieve marketshare is in Microsoft's DNA.

If you're willing to pay a bit less in order to get the PC configuration you want, you're forgoing ease of use, hardware longevity, far fewer malware and security problems, an extremely stable OS, all of the iApps, peripheral ease of use, and better overall design. That's your choice. But don't blame Apple because you can't get all of the benefits of a Mac at the super low-low price of $299. R&D costs money, and the bargain-basement PC vendor isn't spending any money on R&D or design.

I'm not an elist stuck on myself artist, and I'm not a designer. But I really prefer using a machine that works for me instead of against me and saves me time and money over the long haul.

As for Apple dying inside a decade, just remember what these other fine prognosticators said in their day:

"Stick a fork in 'em - this Apple is cooked."
Robert Thomson, Financial Post, 2/20/2003

"The iPod, with its backward-looking feature set and dramatica