Apple Music Store Coming to Europe & iTunes in China 219
frankie writes "As reported everywhere, Apple is holding a press conference in London on Tuesday June 15. The entirely un-subtle official sound bite is "the biggest story in music is about to get even bigger", not what we've come to expect from Lord Steve." Or read through the Reuters report. In other news, it appears that Apple has struck a deal with China's second larger computer manufacturer to preinstall iTunes.
More news! (Score:5, Interesting)
In related news, Microsoft's appeal to the EU [slashdot.org] has been leaked to the press. It seems to consist of an attack against Apple. "Hey, if Apple can preload their iTunes "media player", why can't we? We should be able to do it too!", said an anonymous source close to the Microsoft legal team. Many legal experts seem to think Microsoft 5-year old kid "If he can do it, I can do it to" antics will fail miserably.
Re:More news! (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft has a monopoly. Apple doesn't.
That's it. Different rules apply if you have a monopoly. Microsoft may consider this "unfair", but there are good reasons for it.
Re:More news! (Score:2)
Read up on antitrust laws and why they exist.
Re:More news! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:More news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple is cutting independant deals with computer manufacturers based on the quality of its product.
Microsoft is forcing computer manufacturers to ship the Windows Media Player whether they want to or not.
So, no, Microsoft is the only company using the leverage provided by the Windows OS monopoly.
Re:More news! (Score:2, Informative)
Money has nothing to do with it, I'm sure.
So, no, Microsoft is the only company using the leverage provided by the Windows OS monopoly.
How do you figure? Isn't Apple leveraging the enormous popularity of Windows and cheap PC prices (as opposed to Apple hardware prices, which I'm guessing don't fly so well in China) to get iTunes installed on as many Chinese computers as possible?
Again, imagine this sit
Re:More news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Your logic is still incredibly faulty.
Hopefully these questions will help clarify the matter:
Does the fact that Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS guarantee that Apple will be able to install iTunes on all PCs sold with Windows?
Does the fact that Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS guarantee that Microsoft will be able to install WMP on all PCs sold with Windows?
For the record, I am not advocating forcing Microsoft to remove WMP from Windows (I would much rather see them forced to open the codecs). I am just explaining how they are leveraging the OS and why the same argument does not apply to others.
If you can't see the difference you're obviously beyond help.
Re:More news! (Score:2)
Not all Windows PCs, but the fact that iTunes is being bundled with the most popular OS allows it to reach a much wider audience (at least in China) than normally possible, correct? I would say in that regard they are leveraging the popularity of Windows to gain a foothold. And either way, they're doing the SAME thing that WMP is doing: by being one of the "default" medi
Re:More news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft can force your hand by raising the price of Windows licenses, or threatening to not sell you Windows licenses, if you bundle a competitor's product. And please note, this has happened to Compaq, BeOS, Netscape, and other companies.
Since when has Apple been able to discourage users from seeking out other media players through legal and contractual means? Microsoft can, through it's monopoly status. Apple can't. Well, they can try, by saying, "If you bundle WMP or Real on your PC, each copy of iTunesPC will cost you $1; if you don't, then iTunesPC will be free."
The difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Microsoft can charge $40 and still get their way, because as a monopoly they can set their own pricing. Apple, as *not* a monopoly, can't set the prices any way they want.
Re:More news! (Score:2)
As of today I believe there are only two manufacturers that are shipping iTunes (HP/Compaq and now Founder). That's a very small percentage of the overall Windows shipments.
WMP on the other hand is on every single computer with Windows box shipped by every single computer manufacturer in the world.
That's a huge difference and one which you are trivializing.
Yes, there is leverage in the fact
Re:More news! (Score:2)
Re:More news! (Score:2)
Re:More news! (Score:2)
I understand your point and perhaps I should have worded it better. However, in one sense what you say is not entirely true. Companies without a monopoly that are facing stiff competition are often more willing to work with the companies on which they rely.
So if Windows had 30% marketshare and the largest selle
Re:More news! (Score:2)
For an example, in 2000/XP just browsing through the folders and highliting a movie/music file will bring up the Media Player preview on the left hadn side. There is really no way to get rid of that.. They user is still using
Re:More news! (Score:3, Informative)
Notepad.exe is the default viewer for text files, it just not something you see in explorer.
And as far as media previewing goes, KDE and GNOME have similar functionality, for example. I think most users expect a modern OS to do some sort of previewing in the file manager. Microsoft has to have some sort of application for which to do the previewing, don't you think? And while it would be po
Re:More news! (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has a monopoly. That has been proven in a court of law. What has also been proven in a court of law is that they abused this monopoly by using anti-competitive practices to make sure that they were in complete control of what was and wasn't installed on top of Windows by system vendors.
Your argument is the same one that Microsoft used. "Poor, poor users - if we let competitors or OEMs change Windows, the poor users won't get the best, most consistent user experience!" Of course this is question-begging: this argument assumes that Microsoft provides the best, most "consistent" user interface, and there's no evidence to the contrary because no one is allowed to rip out chunks of Windows and replace them with Gecko and VLC etc. or just leave those apps out, because Microsoft will revoke their OEM license.
What an end user can do with one PC to tailor it to their needs is not the issue. What an OEM is being prevented from doing on behalf of all of their customers is the issue.
As for Apple somehow having an iTunes monolpoly, you're confusing PC vendors (none of whom have a monopoly, at least in the US) with Microsoft, and anti-competitive practices with competitive practices. If Apple were able to strongarm all PC vendors into not installing WMP or RealPlayer or WinAmp or MusicMatch (etc. etc.) as a condition of installing iTunes, using an iTunes (or other Apple product) monopoly as leverage, that would be comparable to Microsoft's illegal anticompetitive monopolistic practices. Instead, the news that one PC vendor has chosen to preload iTunes doesn't mean that WMP will not be installed, and doesn't in any way give Apple a monopoly on music apps or denote illegal anticompetitive practices.
Re:More news! (Score:2)
Re:More news! (Score:2)
Apple's effectively got a monopoly on Apple hardware Operating Systems, so wouldn't you say they're basically forcing QuickTime and iTunes (I think that's bundled with OS X... if not, it probably will be soon) on users? Explain why this is OK.
then using a license to prohibit manufacturers from putting any competing products on their machines
L
Re:More news! (Score:2)
This particular argument -- "Apple has a monopoly on Apple products" -- comes up often enough that it's worth a separate refutation. Trivially, of course, it's true; Apple does have a monopoly on Macs, OS X, the iPod, etc. And Ford has a monopoly on Ford cars, and
Re:More news! (Score:2)
Re:More news! (Score:2)
A: Apple is the only manufacturer of Apple computers
B: Apple is a hardware company
If you get an Apple computer, you get an Apple OS. Microsoft does not make computers. There is no Microsoft Computer. If microsoft made a computer and bundled the crap out of it, that wouldn't be a problem. It's microsoft computer. However, I can go to the store and get a Dell, or and HP, or a whatever and they're all seperate machines that DON"T come from microsoft. All of them will have windows howeve
About bloody time! (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been using iTunes for Windows since release, and although I can't actually buy from the iTMS, I've found it an excellent tool for finding music I like - being able to listen to the samples directly from iTunes is a godsend. Personally, I don't see the problem with the DRM Apple use - sure, it's restrictive, but it's not as bad as some - and I can certainly see myself buying from the store upon opening.
All we need now is for Pepsi to offer free songs too...
Re:About bloody time! (Score:4, Funny)
here's a copy of the invitation [macrumors.com]
shame about the resolution, but I guess you'll have to earn your keep in photoshop!
-- james
Japan First? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Japan First? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Japan First? (Score:3, Informative)
I doubt that Apple plans to launch iTMS China... (Score:4, Insightful)
ipod (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ipod (Score:2)
Re:ipod (Score:2)
While most of China cannot come close to affording an iPod (and, if they had the spare cash, would rather have a motorcycle), there is a rising urban middle-class. These people want to show off through conspicuous consumption: going to $tarbuck$, driving a Mercede$ or BM-trouble-you, having the latest flashy mobile phone. It is a relatively small group, but, if the iPod is "the" music player, they will all have one (and the cheap MP3 makers will have look-alike white earbuds and cords, for the
Canada, too! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Canada, too! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Canada, too! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Canada, too! (Score:2)
Re:Canada, too! (Score:2)
Plus, remember that the legality of file sharing is very much in limbo [zeropaid.com] here, so Canadians can be a little more fearless about dow
Re:Canada, too! (Score:2)
Re:Canada, too! (Score:2)
Apparently, vending machine purchases are cheaper here too (Though I still think CAD$1.00 is too much for a can of pop.)
Stupid recursion (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Stupid recursion (Score:2)
China will be an interesting experiment (Score:5, Insightful)
China has been gaining a large middle class, and a lot of wealth. So, I think there is a big enough potential market that is able to purchase music. We'll see if they are willing to purchase music.
I went to China on a business trip last year, and while walking through an open market in Shanghai I couldn't take five steps without being approached by a kid wanting to sell CD's and DVD's for less than a dollar a piece.
Re:China will be an interesting experiment (Score:3, Informative)
Re:China will be an interesting experiment (Score:3, Interesting)
Not Canada Yet (Score:3, Interesting)
I still don't understand why they don't have iTMS in Canada yet.
Re:Not Canada Yet (Score:2)
Retribution (Score:5, Funny)
I still don't understand why they don't have iTMS in Canada yet.
Two words: Celine Dion.
Too little, too late? (Score:4, Interesting)
Best of all, the encoding is almost always selectable -- you can choose MP3 (including the LAME alt-preset settings), WMA, OGG, MP4, and a couple of others I've forgotten. You can even get the tracks lossless if you want.
I can't remember getting this excited about an Internet site since the first time I streamed European radio via RealPlayer in 1997. Understand: I've been an AVLA-licensed DJ for 13 years. I rarely spend my own money on music; I get it all from the record companies (whose licensing terms, for DJs at least, are a lot better in Canada than they are in the States -- we can burn multiple copies for performance, are licensed to play directly from MP3, etc.), in exchange for a nominal fee. But last night I spent about US$17 and downloaded about 220 songs. About half of that was replacing CDs I've previously owned but that are now damaged or lost. Another 20% was probably old favorites from the 80s that I remember fondly but am not willing to spend a lot of money on (Sly Fox or Paul Hardcastle for example).
Don't want to give your credit card to the Russians? Fine -- they take PayPal. I paid $10 for 1GB of download, and when it was obvious I was going to blow past that amount, I added another $10. Simple and painless.
iTUnes and all the comparable services (PureTracks, etc.) use DRM-encumbered formats. These are unencumbered MP3s that work great on my 15GB Archos Jukebox Recorder.
In short, allofmp3 is pretty much exactly what I've been wanting in a download service. They claim it's legal in Russia (see the site and some discussion forums), and it's legal for me to download here in Canada (heck, my wife will be burning half the music to CDs that we've paid the CRIA licensing fees for -- most of our CDs are used for backups and/or digital photos), so for as long as they're around they've got my business.
What's an AVLA license? (Score:4, Funny)
Great if you hate musicians. (Score:5, Insightful)
Apart from the ability to select music quality, I don't really see where allofmp3.com is any different than downloading a song from P2P.
As for iTunes "Encumberment" - perhaps you missed out on Hymn [hymn-project.org]?
Re:Great if you hate musicians. (Score:2)
Will the artist see less money from a download off of AllOfMP3 than a download off of iTunes? Probably. But at least the artist still gets something, compared to downloading off of a P2P where they get nothing at all.
Re:Great if you hate musicians. (Score:2)
It is also questionably legal, at *best*, for use outside of Russia. IANAL, but I seem to recall there being trade laws to prevent exactly this sort of business operation from being legal.
Re:Great if you hate musicians. (Score:2)
Re:Too little, too late? (Score:2)
What specifically points to it being legal in Canada? Has the CRIA blessed this?
International Music (Score:4, Insightful)
You know you're commenting on Slashdot when... you have to make several provisos to be sure you're understood.
New iPod (Score:3, Interesting)
We still have no sight of the iPod Mini and when Jobs announces a new iPod (which the rumour sites seem to think will happen - anyone got any further information?) then it'll be another six months before we can get our grubby mits on them.
Personally, I'm going to see what the new iPod will be like before deciding whether or not to wait ...
I am of course assuming they are going to announce one that is, however the last update was October 16th 2003, which was a fair while back now - especially in light of all the other entrants to the HD MP3 player market who are all vying for top spot.
Re:New iPod (Score:2)
I would take the Mini Cooper of the Mini ipod anyday.
iTunes in China (Score:2, Funny)
I can already predict one album that will never be sold via the Chinese version of iTunes*:
"Chinese Democracy," by GNR (or The Offspring).
Granted, it'll have to be released first, and the way its going, it'll also be the official soundtrack to Duke Nukem Forever.
*Yes, yes, I realize that the annoucement is not for the iTunes Music Store to be released in China but just the software so please do not flame me over it.
It's _been_ available in Europe....sort of. (Score:3, Informative)
ITMS has been available in Europe for a while, you just had to pay from the US.
Breaking news: Airport Express Abso. Brilliant!!! (Score:2)
http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/
True to Apple's vision, Computers not Media Centers become hubs for your media!!! Absolutely freaking right on the spot... ! Now we know why Apple's not licensing the DRM to other players... You can bet that 50% of people who bought an iPod will buy this...
Here's Jobs describing the gizmo...
"We looked at the most popular place people listen to their music," said Jobs during his keynote at "D." "The first p
Re:Breaking news: Airport Express Abso. Brilliant! (Score:2)
Um, actually... yeah (Score:2)
Huh. It's weird to believe something.
If Jobs can come through with a comparably elegant car angle, he's got me for that too. Tape adapters kind of suck, FM transmitters are so weak they lose signal strength from the dashboard to the antenna on my rear window. I want a little cradle or something, and not one with wires straggling all over the place.
What will the pricing be? (Score:2)
Re: double standards? (Score:5, Insightful)
It doesn't have anything to do with the mysterious anti-Microsoft pro-Apple conspiracy. People just like rooting for the underdog, even if the underdog would be just as Evile as the top dog if/when given the chance.
Dlugar
Re: double standards? (Score:4, Insightful)
Which begs the question: What will community consensus say if Linux continues on its current trajectory and achieves enough market share to be considered a monopoly in certain markets, like service operating systems? Would the community turn against Linux and root for the underdogs, namely *BSD, Apple, and Microsoft?
Re: double standards? (Score:3, Interesting)
The other point that I think needs to be made is that we're talking about bundling software. If, ?somehow?, linux manages to bundle some software with a required portion of the OS (kernel wont load without mozilla, lets say) then most definitely there will be an outcry. I would expect riots, defections to *BSD, and lonely men all o
Confusion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: double standards? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:double standards? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:double standards? (Score:5, Interesting)
The Microsoft-Apple Comparison FAQ (Score:3)
You're implying... (Score:5, Insightful)
You're implying that China is communist. It's not truly communist - the country would not have experienced such massive growth in population if it wasn't for western companies investing in textiles factories, etc. in China. China owes a lot to western countries for it's absoloutely massive period of growth after the past fifty years. Considering I just three hours ago wrote a two page essay on it for an A-Level...
Re:You're implying... (Score:2)
Is "A-Level" some sort of metric school?
Re:double standards? (Score:3, Insightful)
For instance, while we agree DRM is a Bad Thing, if we accept that it is a prerequisite for successful onlin
Re:double standards? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience (Score:2)
It's called marketing. They are using "buzz" words to attract the attention of more people. the jist is that more people intrested drives up sales, then they make more money.
Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience (Score:5, Funny)
Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience (Score:2, Informative)
Re:World’s Best Digital Music Experience (Score:2)
Re:Its gonna come crashing down (Score:5, Interesting)
oh yeah, there aren't any.
please tell me the ISBN numbers of any CDs which apple computer manufactures for sale.
oh yeah, there aren't any.
apple computer is not behaving as a music label. they are behaving as a website which acts as a 3rd party for music sales.
From your link: That contract stipulated Apple Computer could use the logo for computers, data processing and telecommunications, while the Beatles could retain it for music, according to documents filed by the pop group's lawyers at the High Court.
Apple Computer is providing a massive data processing environment (iTunes Music Store) and allows people to purchase music from -other- labels through this telecommunications link.
Besides the fact that an incredibly common fruit, the apple, being trademarked is absurd in the first place.
Re:Its gonna come crashing down (Score:2)
Re:Its gonna come crashing down (Score:2)
From your link: That contract stipulated Apple Computer could use the logo for computers, data processing and telecommunications, while the Beatles could retain it for music, according to documents filed by the pop group's lawyers at the High Court.
They could violate the trademark without acting like a label. However, notice the distinct lack of the Apple logo on the iTMS. Also noti
Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc (Score:2)
By the way, just use hymn [freshmeat.net] to unlock your files.
Re:.ogg iTunes, .wav etc (Score:2, Informative)
Don't let fears over iTunes' "incompatibility" damn you-- it's not Windows Media, with a click of a button in the preferences you can set it to encode in something you can use in any player that you prefer.
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2, Informative)
It's not a legally questionable operation. It is legal according to Russian law, and it's a Russian company, so it's legal.
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2)
...In Russia. Since presumably most of the world does not live in Russia, its legality elsewhere is still in question.
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2, Informative)
But that's a dumb argument. There are American porns sites that would be illegal in many countries in the world, but that doesn't mean that the sites are of dubious legality. They are legal. Or if you don't like that example, many American web sites share personal data in a way that is not allowed by law in the EU, but again that doesn't mean they are illegal or dubious.
I think what you mean is that it
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2)
I'm just asking if it is in fact legal to use within the USA and elsewhere? I haven't seen a definitive yes or no.
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2)
I don't think there is a definitive answer to that question at the moment.
Lots of people argue that buying from allofmp3.com is illegal, but when you ask why, they say "it's obvious". From a legal perspective, I don't think it is obvious at all.
Now, distributing copyrighted material that you don't own is clearly illegal. But you're not doing that if you are downloading music from allofmp3.
C
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2)
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2)
The exact amount is worked out with the music label and their deal with the artist, Apple has nothing to do with it and it varies from label to label. Never mind the number of independent labels on the iTMS.
Re:iTunes or AllOfMP3? (Score:2)
Uh, too outstanding to just not comment... I assure you that *not* "choosing" to work with the RIAA to sell mainstream music in the USA (no disrespect to independents) is a sure way of "choosing" to spend a loooong time in jail. Feel free to present us with your mainstream RIAA-free music online store, I will happily send you my money then, but it will be probably all spent feeding your army of lawyers.
dani++
Re:(can you)blame canada? (Score:2)
Re:(can you)blame canada? (Score:2)
Re:Question of the day : food or music ? (Score:5, Insightful)
This report [cnn.com] suggests that 80 million of China's 1.5 billion citizens live below the poverty line. I've read reports that the Chinese Middle Class extends to numbers equalling the population of the United States.
On a recent trip to China, I observed a LOT of technology-obsessed youth - the exact target market for new computers and iPods. And in a country where you don't usually have the expense of a car, flashy goods like the iPod go a long way to showing off your social standing.
Understand that your vision of poverty-stricken China holds true for a large expanse of rural China, the urban population in cities like Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong live a lot like the rest of us (albeit in slightly more cramped spaces).
In a society like that, where large purchases (houses and cars) are unusual, they're left with things like Rolexes and iPods to show off their wealth.
Re:Question of the day : food or music ? (Score:2, Informative)
Not competely true. Did you only visit the places where tourists go? I've travelled all around China and believe me, and the middle class don't live as good as we do -- not at all. The only places in China where it was up-to-par compared to my home country (Sweden) was the places were tourists go.
I don't expect Apple to sell more iPods in China than the United S
Re:Question of the day : food or music ? (Score:2)
They were probably thinking that in a country with over 1 billion people, there would still be enough people with enough money to justify this. I know nothing about the distribution of wealth in China, but let's say that 10% of their population is at a level of wealth comparable to your average American. That's over
Re:Question of the day : food or music ? (Score:2)
Probably they will be able to claim that their QT installed base has suddenly jumped several dozen million computers...
dani++
Re:Question of the day : food or music ? (Score:2, Insightful)
China, population below poverty line 10%, USA, er, oh, wait, erm, 12.7%. Did I get those the wrong way round, oh, let me check again, aha, oh no. USA has 12.7% of it's population below the poverty line.
So, as I was saying, you're in south central, and you think, tunes or medical provision, what are you going to choose, hmmm... hard choice but I'll download Outkast.
US [cia.gov] China [cia.gov] (world factbook).
Re:will we get a linux version of ITunes? (Score:2, Interesting)