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Music Businesses Media Apple

Free iTunes Over a Browser 287

Ade writes "One may now listen and search for Apple iTunes music via this front end or any webserver running the perl script called iTMS-4-ALL, which was written by Jason Rohrer, programmer of the secure filesharing system MUTE who hopes the script 'helps revive everyone's ITMS interfaces.' Music activists Downhill Battle, who organised the Grey Tuesday protests for disseminating censored music, run a copy of the script and say 'this is a cute tool, but it has the potential to become a powerful weapon to fight the major record label monopoly' in the ways they outline. Playing the music requires QuickTime for the ~600kb downloadable MP4 snippets to be heard." Update: 04/19 01:41 GMT by H : Thanks to Aaron at Punboy for sending us a link to a faster server.
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Free iTunes Over a Browser

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  • Misleading. (Score:5, Informative)

    by TitusC3v5 ( 608284 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:15PM (#8899007) Homepage
    Misleading title. This front end merely lets you listen to the samples, not actually download/listen to the actual purchased songs.
    • Re:Misleading. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:19PM (#8899028)
      The real news is that the protocol has been reverse-engineered, so you can write whatever iTunes frontend you want.
      • Re:Misleading. (Score:2, Insightful)

        by lintux ( 125434 )
        And now I'm wondering how long it will take before the protocol will be changed slightly to lock out this program...
        • Re:Misleading. (Score:5, Informative)

          by prockcore ( 543967 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @11:52PM (#8901245)
          And now I'm wondering how long it will take before the protocol will be changed slightly to lock out this program...

          I'm the one who discovered the AES key, it took me about 4 hours. Now that I know where to look, even if they change it, it won't take long to get the new key.

          So the question is, how often does Apple want to break older versions of iTunes and force everyone to upgrade? The other question is, why would Apple want to do that in the first place?
      • Re:Misleading. (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        The other important part required for a full iTunes client is an implementation of FairPlay. FairPlay was reverse engineered back in January [theregister.co.uk] by DVD-Jon, and an Open Source implementation [videolan.org] is available in VideoLAN CVS.

        It's the same code which is being used by the m4p2mp4 and playfair decryption tools.
      • Is it still called "reverse engineering" when the protocol specification has been public for nearly a year?

        It's called DAAP, and it was hardly a secret.
        • Re:Misleading. (Score:5, Informative)

          by Abjifyicious ( 696433 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @06:27PM (#8899694)
          DAAP is the protocol used for the LAN sharing feature of iTunes. The music store has nothing to do with it.

          In a sense though, this isn't completely new. The search interface was hacked long ago, so Apple added some encryption stuff to lock out non-iTunes clients. All that's been hacked is the encryption key.

    • Re:Misleading. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by in7ane ( 678796 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:21PM (#8899040)
      Descriptions isn't: "listen and search for Apple iTunes music " ... " for the ~600kb downloadable MP4 snippets to be heard."

      Title probably implies free as in speech (can be accessed from anywhere) rather than beer (you get free songs)
    • by line.at.infinity ( 707997 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @05:20PM (#8899353) Homepage Journal
      It says this is a powerful weapon to fight the major record label monopoly, but it doesn't fight major record labels any more than it does minor record labels.
    • "...Music activists Downhill Battle, who organised the Grey Tuesday protests for disseminating censored music, run a copy of the script and say 'this is a cute tool, but it has the potential to become a powerful weapon to fight the major record label monopoly' in the ways they outline..."

      Did that submission sound like a press release to anybody other than me?

      Following the poster's link lead to this [groovetip.com].

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:17PM (#8899018)
    why didn't apple make itunes work with any browser to begin with?
    • by dr.badass ( 25287 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:25PM (#8899076) Homepage
      why didn't apple make itunes work with any browser to begin with?

      Because they were going for seamless integration with iTunes the app and the iPod. What good would it be to use a browser interface be if you had to use iTunes to play the music anyway?

      It may seem like a nice idea to use a web browser interface, but it would completely shatter the sense of integration that they were going for, and succeeded at.
      • by Momo_CCCP ( 757200 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:30PM (#8899107)
        And because their Windows/MacOS ITMS covers 95 % of their clients and they don't give a f*** about the rest (hey, long haired hippies don't buy music anyway, they don't even buy their OS, doh...)
      • by sulli ( 195030 ) *
        Which is why they probably won't give a shit about this project. The integrated iTunes app is what's so user friendly - this is nice and all, but not nearly as useful.

        (Note: I still haven't used iTMS because I don't want any DRM'd tracks. But my iPod kicks ass.)

      • Umm, because some people still haven't upgraded to Win 2000 or XP.

        I run linux, but have kept a Windows ME , still installed on my PC, for certain Windows only applications. But I can't use itunes on it too.

        WTF , how difficult is it to provide a linux or Windows 98/ME , application ?

        • by 2nd Post! ( 213333 ) <gundbear.pacbell@net> on Sunday April 18, 2004 @06:04PM (#8899585) Homepage
          Uh, how difficult? You wouldn't believe the answer if you can't imagine it in the first place.

          A straight Linux port would require:

          Quicktime
          Carbon/MacOS ToolKit

          And Quicktime would require a working audio subsystem, a working video subsystem, as well as their networking, 2d, and maybe even 3d stack, if you do a full Quicktime port.

          And if you ask "Why Quicktime?" the answer would have to be, "Why would Apple port iTunes without Quicktime?"

          I don't know why Quicktime doesn't work on 98/ME, but I don't think they were omitted lightly.
          • one could try some luck to use gnustep, but while it does provide most of the core obj-c, it is lacking a lot in the display part -- hence it is unlikely to be such an easy 'port'.

            keep in mind that macos is not an x11 gui...

            albeit, it might have been not any more difficult than win port, though.
          • They wouldn't need to do any of that. All they would have to do is provide a simple front-end that could work with the web interface to search, display and purchase songs. That interface could be in GTK+ and use objective C, C, C++ or tons of other languages or even QT. When a user purchases the song, the front-end only need to decrypt it. There are plenty of ways to play AAC, mpeg4, etc under Linux that Apple could use, no reason to reinvent the wheel and port quicktime, carbon/macos toolkit, etc to Li
            • by 2nd Post! ( 213333 ) <gundbear.pacbell@net> on Sunday April 18, 2004 @08:24PM (#8900325) Homepage
              You forgot three things:

              Apple needs to interface with the iPod.
              Apple has it's pride in design and usability.
              Profit (tied tightly to the iPod of course)

              You attribute to malice and stupidity when there is real, technical, reason. Apple's key to making money is ease of use, high design, and quality, and if it can't do that, why is it Apple? If it is none of those things, then you might as well have a third party reverse engineer and develop the software to browse, buy, manage, play, and synch music files... notably which has happened with regards to:

              Quicktime
              iTMS
              iPod
              AAC/iTunes

              So whether they are right or wrong, I doubt it was a gut anti-Linux move so much as a simple return on investment calculation. Simply put, without lifting a finger Apple has accomplished all of the goals by relying on the characteristic DIY nature of the Linux and OSS movements.

              Your bias works against you; unless you don't believe in thinking intelligently and instead suppose we should always turn first towards our biases and second to external evidence?
        • Can you use this new script to purchase and download full tunes from the iTMS?

          No? Then pray tell why Apple would spend the time, effort and money to make a browser front-end for those who by definition cannot spend money on their service.

          As for why no iTMS for Linux or pre-2000 Windows, another poster mentioned having to port the libraries and such to Linux; and I'm sure Win98/ME not using the NT codebase from which 2000 and XP are derived was a factor as well.
        • Provide?

          I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard.

          but Support?

          Why would they bother supporting (i.e. installation help, inevitable "my system was operating perfectly before I installed your application! [except for those 37.5 spyware programs [bbc.co.uk] in the system tray]") operating systems that even Microsoft can't be arsed to support [nd.edu], or for a family of operating systems with no generally recognized base configuration (Linux) when they can cover 99% of shipping home systems by supporting XP and OS X?

    • why didn't apple make itunes work with any browser to why didn't apple make itunes work with any browser to begin with?

      Because they can tightly control the itunes viewing experience. Trying to make everything web-browser accessible may be a proper goal in some areas, but in others it just doesn't make sense. With the way it is structured now, they can add tags at whim to redefine how items are presented on the screen, etc and be completely certain how it will look to the user without trying it out on u

  • by Have Blue ( 616 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:21PM (#8899047) Homepage
    Look at some of the suggested uses for this... Constantly downloading free previews? Using them for P2P? What makes you think Apple will allow their service to be abused like this? They control both the server and the only client that they want to be accessing it, it would be trivial for them to break this without affecting anyone using iTunes at all.

    It's this zero-tolerance attitude that will cement hardware DRM's inevitability. Apple tried to meet customers halfway and they still get attacked.
    • by dpete4552 ( 310481 ) * <slashdot@tuxcont[ ].com ['act' in gap]> on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:28PM (#8899096) Homepage
      Who cares. You get one 30 second clip of the song. It's no different than what the RIAA themselves are distributing on p2p networks. The only difference is that these are not looped over and over again to make them appear as full songs.

      Not that I don't think Apple will do everything they can to shut this service down -- just out of principle.
    • It's this zero-tolerance attitude that will cement hardware DRM's inevitability. Apple tried to meet customers halfway and they still get attacked.

      Attacked? It's an alternate frontend, not a decryption device. You still get the same content from Apple, using the same protocol. It's only the previews, not the songs. All that has changed is that the potential number of users has been increased because you no longer need to use MacOS or Windows to run the official iTunes client.

      How in betsy's name is t

      • Okay, this is asinine.

        All that has changed is that the potential number of users has been increased because you no longer need to[...]run the official iTunes client.

        How in betsy's name is that an attack? This is free publicity for iTunes Music Store on more platforms than Apple can officially support. This guy is basically increasing the market for Apple.


        First, consider that this script affords this so-called "increased market" you speak of no possibility of actually purchasing this music. Rather, it s
  • Well... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Momo_CCCP ( 757200 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:25PM (#8899071)
    you can use vlc instead of quicktime if you use an OSS system. Now the ITMS itself is going to be slashdotted, whoops...
  • Theft of service? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sheetrock ( 152993 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:25PM (#8899072) Homepage Journal
    At least one of the ideas struck me as being intriguing (using the iTunes database as a source for determining if a song might be controlled by the RIAA) but some of the others would be problematic.

    Having a P2P service pulling album covers and other metadata from Apple's pay service is as likely to be considered stealing as pulling copyrighted music without paying for it. Even checking their database from a non-iTunes application may raise hackles. It's a cute hack, but why risk upsetting Apple when they're already providing the fairest online music store to date?

    • That magic juju (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 18, 2004 @05:01PM (#8899265)
      Look, apple isn't doing anything heroic. They're not offering anything special.

      I buy completely legit, DRM free, albums...any album you can name for $7 each, brand new (shipped to your door for that price). That comes out to about $.50 a song, and I can resell the CD's when I'm done.

      CD's are only expensive for the impatient. The "oh, I can't wait 5 days, I must have that song NOW!" crowd. But if you can wait 5 days. FIVE days. Then you can get great deals.

      Or there are used CD's.

      But I don't get why Apple is "magic" but KMart offereing essentially the same thing is "evil".

      Look. I'm typing this on a powerbook. I own 6 apple computers, I have 2 iPods. But I don't think iTMS is magic. its not special. I don't think Apple has done anything special except convince certain people that iTMS is something revolutionary.

      Is isn't.

      Paying $10/CD for 128kb DRM encrusted music may be your idea of fantastic. But I think I'll pass on that kind of generosity.
      • Re:That magic juju (Score:3, Insightful)

        by huchida ( 764848 )
        Paying $10/CD for 128kb DRM encrusted music may be your idea of fantastic. But I think I'll pass on that kind of generosity.

        Right. And with DRM, you only have temporary access to the music at that-- I can guarantee you that most people who buy a song on iTunes will be buying that same piece of music in another format somewhere down the line (say, a computer or two later... Or is the hard drive you're downloading to going to be the one you use for the rest of your life?)

        • Re:That magic juju (Score:3, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward
          You can re-authorize tracks when you get a new HD....stop spreading so much FUD.
      • That's where being able to buy individual songs can definitely save money over buying a full CD, even at $7.

        But I actually agree with most of what you say. I don't like Apple's DRM either. It may sound like they are very generous, but they are just trying to lock you in to their software and hardware players.

        As much as it pains me to give Microsoft any credit, their WMA format is, in a way, more "open" than Apple AACs, since they license their DRM to other software and hardware vendors. Just look around a
  • by bfree ( 113420 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:25PM (#8899077)

    Is it sane to think of basing any sort of client on apple's metadata, surely they will mess with any clients trying to do it. So while this software works, now, will it work for long? Maybe if someone builds a second compatible database of the metadata ...

  • The real solution (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ciryon ( 218518 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:26PM (#8899088) Journal
    would be to port iTunes to Linux. I can't think of any reason how that could hurt Apple.
    • Cost of Porting (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Fished ( 574624 ) <amphigory@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:34PM (#8899127)
      It would cost them a great deal of money to port iTunes to Linux, and it is not immediately clear that such a port would provide them with any tangible financial benefit. duh.
      • I doubt it would cost them much at all.

        I would imagine that there are even people who would be willing to do the port for them for free. If I knew enough about programming, I know I sure would.
      • Re:Cost of Porting (Score:5, Insightful)

        by c ( 8461 ) <beauregardcp@gmail.com> on Sunday April 18, 2004 @07:18PM (#8900011)
        It would cost them a great deal of money to port iTunes to Linux, and it is not immediately clear that such a port would provide them with any tangible financial benefit.

        It ain't about spending the money.

        They could publish enough of the protocols that someone could write software to handle payment and downloading tracks. Someone probably would do this.

        Of course, they'd have to accept that an open source client would strip out any DRM using playfair. shrug People will do it anyways with iTunes-downloaded music so I'm not sure there's really any overall loss.

        But that probably wouldn't sell many iPod's and Apple would lose it's coveted control over the iTunes process. So it ain't gonna happen.

        c.
    • Re:The real solution (Score:5, Interesting)

      by dpete4552 ( 310481 ) * <slashdot@tuxcont[ ].com ['act' in gap]> on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:34PM (#8899129) Homepage
      Because Linux is just as much of a competitor to Apple as it is to Microsoft. For all the reasons Microsoft doesn't want to do anything to help Linux on the desktop (e.g. porting applications), Apple really doesn't want to do anything to help Linux on the desktop. As I read elsewhere, it's all about mindset. Apple doesn't want people thinking "Linux vs. Microsoft" they want people thinking "Apple vs. Microsoft".
      • Yeaah, right, Apple would never do anything that might help Linux, like utilizing various open source projects and contributing their changes back to the open source community.
        • Using open source != helping desktop Linux.

          Actually Apple have a pretty bad record of contributing changes back .... KHTML received an enormous patch dump (at the first point that apple were legally obliged to provide it) that took many moons to integrate properly, gcc got one or two patches back but the version apple use in MacOS X is significantly different to upstream, etc. FreeBSD got some test suites and one or two trivial patches, AFAIR and I think so far XFree/X.org got nothing of value at all.

          Ba

      • Re:The real solution (Score:3, Interesting)

        by polyp2000 ( 444682 )
        Apple really doesn't want to do anything to help Linux on the desktop.

        Then why are they contributing to KDE via khtml which they use in safari? (and whatever other projects they are involved in)

        Actually I think the more *nix/FOSS users there are the more that benefits Apple, because it means there are more *nix/FOSS developers to write cross platform code. Having darwin open source has sealed the fate of the core part of the OS. If Apple die ; the OS will live.

        Apple is really a hardware company; Micros
      • Re:The real solution (Score:3, Interesting)

        by AstroDrabb ( 534369 ) *
        The thing is, is that Apple vs. Microsoft has been dead for a long time now. It is Linux vs. Microsoft. If Apple helped Linux, in the end they would be helping themselves. Anything that can bring down the Microsoft monopoly on the desktop would help Apple since Apple wants to sell desktops. If enough people think of something else then Microsoft for the desktop, some of those people will look over at Apple and become customers. As it stands now, Linux has about 25% of the server market and 2.8% of the

    • Though it doesn't make much sense from a business point of view. iTMS is a driver for the iPod, which is targeted at the consumer market. Obviously Apple support their own platform, and obviously they need to support Windows because it gives them access to a massive consumer market for iPod sales.

      But the bulk of Linux's installed base exists in the business/technical markets. Its penetration in the consumer market is so small, I doubt it's even worth their bother. Maybe in the future that will change,
    • by .com b4 .storm ( 581701 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @05:53PM (#8899525)

      would be to port iTunes to Linux. I can't think of any reason how that could hurt Apple.

      This has been brought up before, and the ultimate problem is that iTunes relies very heavily on QuickTime, and since QuickTime does not exist on Linux, it would have to be ported as well. Now they could probably hack something like how mplayer does it, using the Windows DLLs and bolting the iTunes interface onto it, but that would not be very elegant... And that ties in with another reason Apple would probably not want to bother:

      Some people will not like to acknowledge it, but Linux is a pain in the ass to support commercially with closed source. Yes, there are companies that do it, but it is difficult and for most it is not worth the bother. Apple has probably already looked at the situation, and seen that it would take a lot of money not only to port iTunes (and probably QuickTime), but also to support it. How much of a pain would it be to support say, just Mandrake and SuSE? Enough of one that they would likely not recoup their development and support costs through the handful of Linux users that actually care to buy music from the iTMS. They'd have to worry about building RPMs for versions X, Y, and Z of distros A, B, and C, and then worry about God knows what a given Linux user will do to customize (i.e. screw up) things on their system, thus potentially breaking iTunes.

      Ultimately, I really don't think Apple would make enough money off of iTunes on Linux to make it worth the cost of porting it, supporting it, and keeping up with the rather chaotic placement of and frequently breaking changes to system libraries, GUI toolkits, etc.

  • by Luckboy ( 152985 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:35PM (#8899133)
    I'd like to thank the jilted, bitter, preachy musicians who created the Downhillbattle.org website and are hosting this script. The search engine is actually more responsive than iTunes, so I can find the songs I want to buy from iTunes even faster!

    Please, guys. Get off your high horse and work on finding a new way to do things rather than just trying to take the old system down. When you find a better way, the rest will work itself out.
    • You've got an excellent point. I'm generally turned off by the preachy tone of downhill battle, but this is a pretty neat little hack, and is the sort of thing that might lead to real changes in music distribution. More functionality and less ideology, please.
  • by lotsofno ( 733224 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:43PM (#8899169)
    Playing the music requires Apple Quicktime for the ~600kb downloadable MP4 snippets to be heard.
    Actually, using an easy to install plug-in [inthegray.com], you can listen to iTMS' proprietary DRM'ed AAC tracks in Winamp, easy.
  • Bad Interface (Score:5, Insightful)

    by djroute66 ( 43321 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:43PM (#8899171) Homepage
    They claim that this is great because you don't have to use the iTunes interface. But the interface to this perl script is horrible. It reminds me how perfect Apple got it the first time.
  • Quicktime? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @04:47PM (#8899191) Journal
    Playing the music requires Apple Quicktime for the ~600kb downloadable MP4 snippets to be heard."

    Why recomend quicktime? How about VLC, or MPlayer? Both play the files just fine. If you're going to go the closed-source route, just run iTunes in the first place.
    • The goal was to replace one cog in the machine. If you want to continue to use QuickTime to continue, he's telling you how. If you don't want to use QuickTime, you probably don't have to. Be happy he gave you ONE option out of the many.
  • I don't get it. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by siloflow ( 83493 )

    It seems slashdot readers "get" the idea of free software, why is it hard to understand that the same ideas exist in the music community?

    Instead, I'd like to see some productive discussions of those artists that allow their music to be freely traded.

    Linkage: (there just has to be some music you can enjoy at one of the following)
    Live Music Archive [archive.org]
    Furthurnet Band List [furthurnet.com]
    Etree BitTorrent Downloads [etree.org]

  • DMCA (Score:3, Informative)

    by dachshund ( 300733 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @05:05PM (#8899283)
    Haven't looked at the script, but I know that some iTunes pages are HTTP/SSL encrypted with a fixed AES key. If this script requires those pages, it must be "circumventing" that encryption, hence DMCA problems. Of course, it's possible that they're not using encrypted pages...
    • Re:DMCA (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ocelotbob ( 173602 )
      I played around a bit with the iTMS site a year back, by manually hacking URLs to pass to the site, and the search feature itself, at least as far as I could tell, is pretty much all standard XML. Never saw it ask for even as much as an SSL enabled connection. My only question is why it took so long for someone to hack together the requisite perl. I probably would have done it myself if it hadn't been for the fact that I have the attention span of a crack smoking otter.
    • Re:DMCA (Score:3, Informative)

      by polyp2000 ( 444682 )
      This might be exempt though, isnt there some clause in the law that states that circumventing is not illegal if it is permitting use on an unsupported platform?

      In anycase it looks like apple are providing the tools to generate similar information anyway.

      (itms link maker)
      http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSear c h.woa/wa /itmsLinkMaker

      (itms rms feed)
      http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSearch .woa/wo /4.1

      I cant see Apple being particularly pissed off about this since

      a) it gives them more exposure
      and
      b)
  • Useful applications (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    One useful application of this would be to set up a way to monitor the "Just added" list at iTMS, looking for artists you're interested in.

    Another useful one, if possible, would be to divide the "just added" list by genre, so users could get a list with all the oldies taken out, or with all the audiobooks excluded, etc.

    As it is, the list provided by iTMS just gets too long.
  • Puh-leeeeeze. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LocoSpitz ( 175100 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @05:18PM (#8899342)
    Right now this is a cute tool, but it has the potential to become a powerful weapon to fight the major record label monopoly.

    Give me a fecking break. The people at Downhill Battle have a history of vastly overstating the importance and relevance of their "accomplishments", and this is no different. Being able to browse iTunes over the Internet (something that won't last long once Apple hears about this) will do nothing to defeat the record companies. The amount of self-delusion that must go into a thought like that is startling.

    While I'm on a rant, let me talk about something else that's been bothering me. Just what is it that Downhill Battle hopes to accomplish? One of their projects is showcased here [downhillbattle.org]. So, you guys buy a digital camera from Wal-Mart and then document yourselves vandalizing CDs, in-store displays, and music preview hardware (which, incidentally, has led me on more than one occasion to purchase indie-label music that I would not have found without the machines), and then fraudulently returned the camera. And this accomplished.... what? Far as I can tell, nothing beyond proving just how immature these guys are. Does Downhill Battle do anything of value, or is it all just lame anti-RIAA posturing?
    • by DavidinAla ( 639952 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @06:03PM (#8899581)
      You are absolutely correct. Whover thinks your comment is flamebait doesn't understand simple logic. Unfortunately, the guys at Downhill Battle are just punks who believe in vandalizing other people's property instead of finding real solutions. I certainly wouldn't want to count them among MY allies.
    • Re:Puh-leeeeeze. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by God! Awful 2 ( 631283 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @06:25PM (#8899681) Journal
      The interesting thing is that the RIAA is only suing P2P users who are downloading music from the big labels (which seems to be what most people are interested in). If all RIAA-owned music was banned from P2P and you could only download indie music for free, wouldn't this meet Downhill Battle's stated objective of making indie music more accessible?

      -a
    • Re:Puh-leeeeeze. (Score:4, Informative)

      by bfg9000 ( 726447 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @08:44PM (#8900427) Homepage Journal
      So, you guys buy a digital camera from Wal-Mart and then document yourselves vandalizing CDs, in-store displays, and music preview hardware... Does Downhill Battle do anything of value, or is it all just lame anti-RIAA posturing?

      Vandalizing? They put STICKERS [downhillbattle.org] on the CDs. Your vague wording makes it sound like they smashed the place up with baseball bats. This is more along the line of civil disobedience, and does no real harm to the product, as the cellophane is removed when you get the CD home anyway.
  • by zpok ( 604055 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @05:46PM (#8899487) Homepage
    Great, I'm thinking of a script that lets me listen to an endless stream of 30sec previews. Who wants to put more effort than that in music anyway.

    What? You still talking about that?

  • by WombatControl ( 74685 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @06:17PM (#8899637)

    If I were Apple, I'd be embracing this technology - make the iTunes Music Store a ubitquitous web service like Google search. Allow users to point links to iTunes content on any page, allow them to post sound snippets and then link to download with iTunes. After all, Amazon does much the same thing with their Associates program.

    Rather than a threat, I see this as an excellent way for Apple to get the iTMS even more exposure, make it easier to use, and still drive sales through iTunes - after all, there are a lot of people who won't download a new application until they see what benefits it offers.

    • Exactly. And I bet Apple will drop the ball on this. Think of Betamax vs. VHS. One format was guarded and expensive, the other was abundant. Guess which one was which. Apple can guarantee there music store will stay at #1 by letting it work on _any_ OS and making a public API to search and buy music. If Apple floods the market with their service, it will be very, very hard to knock them down. However, I bet Apple will say no and want to control everything just like their hardware and iTMS will eventa
  • this is great! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Comsn ( 686413 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @06:21PM (#8899657)
    i installed itunes just to hear previews so i could grab the songs elsewhere, purchase or download. (cause aac is not my fav)

    amazon is good for this, and there used to be other websites, but amazon seems to have got them all now (cdnow, musicblvd, etc)

    especially because itunes is very bloated. and its understandable for a webbrowser/mediaplayer/medialibrary/cdburning/musi cstore. and whatever else they want to stick in there.
  • by bullitB ( 447519 ) on Sunday April 18, 2004 @06:34PM (#8899735)
    The Apple-provided iTMS Link Maker [apple.com] has similar functionality. It's great for searching for music outside of iTunes or for linking to music you like. If they're offering this kind of stuff themselves, I'd imagine they wouldn't have a huge problem with others doing it too.
    • iTMS Link Maker is just for searching the store, and finding out links to songs in the music store. The links are still opened in iTunes though, and not much information is retrieved except for title, artist and album.
      this new script retrieves pretty much all information, including the previews.
  • I really notice the speed difference -- I know this online script is really basic gui-wise, but it's very very very noticeably faster than the regular iTMS.
  • by valmont ( 3573 ) on Monday April 19, 2004 @10:17PM (#8912468) Homepage Journal

    So what if you can browse the iTunes library thru a perl script? WHERE IS THE PURCHASE BUTTON NEXT TO EACH SONG. That's the whole point behind iTMS. And you know, actually listening to samples without having to fire-up a separate application.

    *sigh*.

    How about writing a useful interface to the Amazon API [amazon.com], which, by design, lets you search its large inventory, is all about metadata (descriptions, reviews and more), gives you direct convenient links to sample audio files for previews (unlike the iTMS links in that interface which my browser is having difficulty understanding), *AND* offers a convenient token-based interface to create a shopping cart of albums that can actually be bought. The Amazon API lays the ground work for a highly-interactive, open market place. Sure you can't buy songs individually, but you can't do that either thru the perl script.

    There's absolutely no point in writing significant amounts of "client" code to reverse-engineered, non-standard server protocols, especially without the approval of the entity that runs the only current implementation of that protocol.

    If anything, take what's useful from the little you've reverse-engineered, implement a better, open protocol based on that, and convince all major record labels to input their data into your system. Oh wait, that might be a bit of a challenge.

    Either way, Apple gets increased mindshare.

    • by valmont ( 3573 ) on Wednesday April 21, 2004 @08:51PM (#8935168) Homepage Journal

      i have karma to burn so i'm'a reply to myself with a mindless rant that'll get some Nerd Panties twisted in a bunch.

      Why are people fighting against Apple and the iTMS? DRM and not enough Fair Use? for crying out loud. You wanna play music simultaneously on 98723487234 computers? You can't possibly cope with compressed music because your ears detect inferior quality to music purchased from a CD? BUY THE FUCKING CD from Amazon.com. iTMS was NOT BUILT FOR YOU. Apple is not asking you to slit your wrists, slay an unborn child, give-up your rights to free speech, or to do anything that goes against the U.S. constitution. Apple is not "luring" you into buying some songs from them only to "surprise" you with DRM restrictions. NO, all the rules are clearly stated UP-FRONT, everyone knows about them, and they are a condition of usage of their service. This service can't possibly fit the needs of every single music-connaisseur-wannabe Nerd on Slashdot. If you don't like it, DON'T USE IT.

      You, as a consumer, have MANY alternatives to buy music from your favorite artists, on many media: live concerts on DVD and Video, Albums on audio CD and cassettes. Rip, mix and burn to your heart's content.

      The fact of the matter is that RIAA owns most of the music industry. If you wanna fight somebody, fight the RIAA by NOT purchasing any music from them. Stick to indy artists. Apple's platform also happens to support independent artists.

      Working so hard to reverse-engineer the iTMS protocol only does two things: mostly promote RIAA songs AND feeding more fuel to RIAA's lobbying fire as they can spin this type of news headlines as yet another reason why they are the poor, hapless victims fighting some Evil Army of Nerds, giving them more credibility in the eyes of clueless lawmakers to pass stupid laws and closing their eyes on CD price hikes.

      THINK BEFORE YOU ACT.

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