Apple G5 Ads Banned In UK 709
Justen writes "The Independent Television Commission has quietly banned Apple from airing an advertisement (in QuickTime here) for the Power Mac G5 in the UK. The Committee says that, prior to the initial broadcast of the ad, it was critical of the assertion that the Power Mac G5 is "the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer." However, Apple supplied what was asserted to be "fair and even" data, based partially on SPEC benchmarks, which "substantiated" Apple's claims and "satisfied" the concerns of their "IT expert." However, the Committee says some "viewers complained that the advertising was misleading," and thus, after an investigation, it reversed its original decision. The Committee has now decided that the ad "should not be re-shown in its current form." Conspiracy theorists take note, Apple's sales in the UK are up 36%, so far, this year."
Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:5, Funny)
Conspiracy theorists take note, Apple's sales in the UK are up 36%, so far, this year.
.. sure, but I'll also note that The site www.itc.org.uk is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4/Windows 98. [netcraft.com] It's a ploy by Microsoft to bring that 36% number 'under control'..
..where's my tin foil hat?
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:4, Insightful)
While i would concede a point arguing that the current intel offerings are as fast or faster, I have to ask the question :
what world do you live in where a Cray is considered a personal computer?!
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:5, Funny)
phew! Thanks for clearing that up!
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
All joking aside, you have been able to buy dual processor desktops for A LONG time.
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
I know that, I run a dual Xeon System. The fact that you and I (not to mention other computer geeks) have these systems and probably use them as personal systems, does not make them "personal computers".
Going to dell.com and looking under home, or students, you won't find dual processor systems. The same is true of almost every other x86 vendor. Apple on the other hand markets it's dual processor systems to home users.
This leads to my c
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
The enthusiast/do-it-yourself market throws a wrench in advertisment-based categories. Instead, price and capabilities become the things to look at, not what some
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
You say that you cannot cite a different market segment, but I am not doing that. I'm looking at people who want to spend $2000-3000 (or $4000, still in the range of a G5) for a computer that will run a wide and flexible range of software applications. Whether you call a machine in that range a personal computer or a workstation is neither here nor there as they perform the same function at the same cost. The link you clicked when you bought them does not change what they are.
And again, Apple does feel that it is fair for them to cite a workstations in their ads, so they themselves were the first ones to open this door: http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
And yes, $3K is definitely a personal machine. Its the same as Apple want for their G5.
The slight of hand here is that Apple is classifying the competition as being something different. Basically the Apple definition of PC seems to be 'any compu
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:3, Insightful)
People made the same argument about Apple claiming it was the first 64-bit personal computer: "I have an Ultra 5 right here on my desk", but a Sun is not a personal computer, neither is an RS/6000, ad nauseum.
And remember, in the USA, "the fastest" really means "as fast as the competition." As long as all three brands of washing powder clean as well as each other they are the "the best".
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:2)
There were personal computers made that used Alphas, which were 64-bit.
Re:Conspiracy? Yes. (Score:5, Funny)
Now, see, I'm above that. Adding an eighth such statement would only serve to increase the clutter and confusion. It's become accepted that we
So, just letting you know that, uhm, I'm not going to do that. You're welcome.
Parsing words does not make a falsehood (Score:5, Insightful)
Apparently extreme truth in advertising is necessary to not confuse the English mind. The ad clearly states "The worlds fastest, most powerful, personal computer."
Where the hell did you get the idea that "big iron boxes like Crays and IBM" are personal computers?
In the US, superlatives are OK, as by some measure something can be the most, best, or greatest. The problem is when some product is advertised with comparatives. A product can be the best, but just better requires irrefutable proof.
They said fastest and most powerful, and by the SPEC benches they submitted, it is. They didn't say the G5 is faster than a Dell dual Xeon 3.0 running XP or a HP Pavilario running Red Hat because this type of apples to oranges comparison would require specific results and would throw off the simplicity of the advertisement.
Anyone who takes the claims of a twelve word advertisement as gospel is a retarded idiot who shouldn't be allowed to buy anything more expensive than a pack of bubble gum. If this is the situation in England, then I truly feel sorry for the few intelligent people who are trapped there and have to be protected by this type of "truth in advertising" laws.
-- Len
Which conspiracy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Conspiracy theorists take note, Apple's sales in the UK are up 36%, so far, this year.
Which conspiracy theory should I be concerned with? The theory that the ITC is out to thwart Apple or the conspiracy between Apple and ITC to sell more Macs?
Glad to see the UK take a stand for integrity in advertising.
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:4, Interesting)
You all know the one I'm talking about. The guy you knew in middle school who hated Macs for no apparent reason. The one who would crow about bad financial reports while you were just trying to eat your Jello. Or maybe it's a "tech" guy you know who can't understand why anyone would use a Mac. "Windows is everywhere, it's clearly better" he'll say. Or "It's good enough, who cares about using anything else, Macs suck".
There is an astounding amount of vitriol between Windows zealots and Apple (and of course Apple zealots and Microsoft). I find it difficult to credit this ad's banishment in the UK to "integrity in advertising". Instead I'd chalk it up to "caving to zealotry" on the part of the politicos.
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:2)
So far the only disagreeable zealotry I've found was one guy the pro Wintel side where many counterexamples were returned with profanity. I often wish computer zealots would get a grip, but man that one needed a padded cell.
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:2)
Yeah, his name was Fred.
Seriously though, I find it a little unsettling that someone would jump on Apple for this reason. My understanding is that the Brits are a practical, well-educated people. I don't think they need to be told to take advertisements with a grain of salt.
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple have a long and illustrious track record of stretching the truth and this time they stepped over. I don't see what the fuss is. If they can't make claims are backed up by impartial facts and reality they deserve to be yanked every time.
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:2)
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's pretty common knowledge that benchmark results depend in large part on who runs them. Apple ran some tests (carefully selected, no doubt) which did show the G5 was superior to everything on those tests. I'm not surprised, it's a VERY fast computer.
But sure, if you used a different compiler on the PC, or if you ran a different set of tests, the PC could well be faster on those tests.
Does that mean that Apple's claims are blatantly false and misleading? I don't really think so. It's a marketing spin on something that's true in some (but not all) cases.
Re:Which conspiracy? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Censorship or standards? (Score:5, Interesting)
While some Apple fans may consider this censorship, personally I applaud the enforcement of standards in advertising.
If standards were forced for truth-in-advertising in the U.S., we'd not only never hear about the G5 being the fastest computer, we'd also not hear about how much we can do for so little from Microsoft. We'd also stop having the stupid claims in oversized truck and SUV ads, diet pills, etc.
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:5, Funny)
Where's my meds?
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:2)
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:2)
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:2)
Or, maybe, people would trust the messages delivered through advertisements more knowing advertizers cannot get away with flat out lies and half-truths. In effect, such increased trust would bring a greater value to an advertizing dollar, and, hence, increased use of the medium.
You can argue either way.
Re: (Score:3, Offtopic)
Re:DIET PILLS?!?!? (Score:3)
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:3, Informative)
The ITC isn't always correct. It is merely the body which takes an "official" view based on its assessment of the world to date and has power to act accordingly. This is roughly akin to some federal US government organisation banning something on the grounds it thinks it's harmful or somehow misleading, regardless of whether you think it's OK.
While I think the ITC has a function in clear-cut cases, it's questionable whether it should take action in situations that are open to debate or subject to many vari
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:2)
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:2)
We still have those adverts in the UK. Hmmm... wonder if they can prove it.
watch the WORDING of most TV ads (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple, on the other hand, blatently lied, saying their new G5 was "the worlds fastest, most powerful personal computer". They didn't say it was faster at a certain task, nor did they even mention it requires a unique OS and unique software. To 90% of the population, a Personal Computer is an x86 box running MS Wind
Re:watch the WORDING of most TV ads (Score:3, Interesting)
Nutritional? She must have meant "nutritious," right? How can they possibly claim that Hostess Cupcakes are nutritious? But wait - when the ad company is spending big bucks to shoot an ad, wouldn't they just reshoot the scene if the actress blows the line? One
Re:watch the WORDING of most TV ads (Score:3)
nor did they even mention it requires a unique OS and unique software.
It is no more or less unique than
To 90% of the population, a Personal Computer is an x86 box running MS Windows.
It isn't Apple's job to make up for the ignorance of the consumer. In fact, when the general public is wrong, truth in advertising precludes catering to their notions.
Re:Censorship or standards? (Score:3, Interesting)
I for one welcome our new borg overlords!
But seriously folks truth-in-advertising laws are a very good thing... see Niven's known world series for some good speculation on what might happen in a world where lying advertisers are put to death...
UK Advertising laws are different. (Score:5, Interesting)
This seems like an instance of _that_.
PLEASE, no one make any "lickable" puns.
-A
Re:UK Advertising laws are different. (Score:3, Insightful)
That probably explains why Carlsberg advertise as "Probably the best lager in the world".
Of course, it would leave Budweisser open to attack with their "king of beers" claim. Clearly wrong!!
Re:UK Advertising laws are different. (Score:4, Funny)
Jaysyn
Re:UK Advertising laws are different. (Score:5, Funny)
You can sometimes (Score:5, Informative)
You can if it is "obvious" that it isn't meant to be taken seriously.
Someone (possibly even CAMRA was it?? - must have been a very off day) once complained about the Heineken ads, on the grounds that it was not true that it "refreshed" some of "the parts other beers cannot reach" as illustrated on the advertisements.
The complaint was thrown out as being daft, because it was perfectly clear that you weren't supposed to believe the advertisements in the first place.
Re:UK Advertising laws are different. (Score:5, Informative)
No, but you can't lay claim to something that is objectively proven by measurable criteria. Taste is subjective, speed is not.
Of course, what counts as measurable criteria is decided by the ITC. Hence the complaints; although the ITC is incredibly powerful when it wants to be. Case in point - it can ban Apple from its second most lucrative market, even though this is a relatively small country in population terms.
Re:UK Advertising laws are different. (Score:2)
In other news... (Score:2, Funny)
Must buy G5 (Score:4, Funny)
By the time the ad was out, it was no longer the most powerful computer.
Re:Must buy G5 (Score:2)
Sure, we all realise that they don't tell the whole truth. The problem is that advertising also works on the subconsious level. Your brain uses a vast database to determine your response to any stimulus. Unfortunatly, that database is polluted with "information" from adverts. We find it next-to-impossible to differentiate between real knowledge and implanted knowledge.
Don't believe me? Take a look at your shopping trolley next time you go grocery shoppin
Re: (Score:2)
Superfalous? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's after the fact though. Companies will always proclaim their products as "the best, the fastest, the strongest." It's a fact of marketing- what company would say "Our products are mediocre, behind X and Y" and expect decent sales?
Let's start the list. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Superfalous? (Score:2)
Eight viewers? (Score:3, Interesting)
They pulled the ad because EIGHT viewers complained? That's a little more responsive than over here in the US. (I'm not sure that's a good thing.)
I can say (Score:5, Funny)
Wow. 8 whole viewers complained! (Score:5, Funny)
But wait, there is more. I have installed Windows2003 on one of my computers, and contrary to Microsoft's TV ads, it didn't save me 5 cents per business transaction. I was hoping to make a killing on that.
In UK, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter is simply known as I Swear It's Not Butter!
The commercal is correctly blocked! (Score:5, Interesting)
That means you cannot say your price is cheaper or faster or whatevre unless we are talking about to totally identical products. We are not here. The processor in the mac is totally different from a processor from AMD, Intel, Sun, etc. I can guarantee that if you compare a totally specialized processor for only one single operation, then that processor might be faster than the G5 processor in that particular field.
It will then be false to say the processor used in the G5 is faster, even though the other only was faster on lets say integar calculations...
Re:The commercal is correctly blocked! (Score:2)
"Hi, were sorry, but you can't state anything factual any of your commercials without including cited studies that have no contradiction, error bars on your statistics, and be sure to use guarded language before everything."
Since, after all, anything that has a type-1 error (everything that involves statistics)
Re:The commercal is correctly blocked! (Score:2)
Re:The commercal is correctly blocked! (Score:3, Insightful)
In Norway we have similar rules: You cannot air commercial claiming something that might be false
I think I prefer the US model (being a native, that's probably to be expected.) In the UK/Norway model, no car could be 'the fastest car', since it would have to be fastest at ALL distances, terrain, etc. Yeah, it's more accurate, but the annoying picky accuracy of grammar nazis.
You really test these things? (Score:2)
Re:You really test these things? (Score:3, Informative)
In the US, we have a term called 'puffery', which refers to advertising that is clearly hyperbole, and is so outrageous that the average man-on-the-street (not your gullible aunt) would not believe it. Puffery is perfectly legal, which is why you can freely advertise "greatest fries in the world!"
However, to cl
Debunking other Apple ads (Score:2)
Apple's G5 Introduction Video [apple.com] is full of heavily edited quotes and comments from various industry leaders. I would personally like to see the raw comments, not Apple's spin.
The ITC (Score:4, Insightful)
Adverts should be held to certain degrees of honesty and integrity. In the US, you can (almost) say what you like, and get away with it. It's very rare that anyone's disciplined in any way, shape or form for misleading or deceptive practices, even when it's blatantly obvious fraud of the consumer is intended.
In England, a few hundred complaints is usually enough to spark an ITC investigation into wrongful advertising. However, they're slow, beaurocratic, and often act in ways which gives the product and the misleading claims far more publicity.
Nonetheless, they do some good. When a rogue advert is found and stopped, it does help bring a touch of reality to the industry. People tend to be a bit more skeptical, a bit more suspicious of claims that seem too good to be true. Which is good! Because it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Here is one of those instances that I'd like each country to borrow a bit from the other. I'd like to see more free speech protection in the UK, but I'd also like to see commercial speech better regulated in the US.
(Commercial speech should not have the same protections as other forms of speech. It should be protected, especially where it is true, but it shouldn't be absolved of all responsibility - it has a lot more weight and power than just some person you happen to meet, and that weight and power needs to be accompanied by responsibility.)
Mindless Note: I honestly believe that the UK and the US sit on different halves of understanding how to make a civilization that can respect itself and others, while remaining strong, free and a damn good place to be. I don't pretend to know how to fit those halves together, or what bits of which are the good bits. All I know is that both countries achieve a degree of happiness in areas that the other can't, that both have strengths the other doesn't, and that on the level of individuals, the wisest are the ones who learn from others.
It's either Evil Microsoft Elves (Score:2)
Conspiracy theorists take note (Score:3, Funny)
Real-world benchmarks (Score:5, Funny)
Some British advertising standards (Score:2, Informative)
SUBSTANTIATION
3.2 If there is a significant division of informed opinion about any claims made in a marketing communication they should not be portrayed as generally agreed.
HONESTY
6.1 Marketers should not exploit the credulity, lack of knowledge or inexperience of consumers.
TRUTHFULNESS
7.1 No marketing communication should mislead, or be likely to mislead, by inaccuracy, ambiguity, exaggeration, omission or otherwise.
COMPARISONS WITH IDENTIFIED COMPETITORS A
Apple UK PC sales up 36% (Score:2)
And I throught they sold Macs..?
Re:Apple UK PC sales up 36% (Score:2)
Speaking of misleading numbers... (Score:2)
From what to what?
Maybe not just one... (Score:3, Funny)
Public safety comes first (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait. You mean I am supposed to use my judgement and work out what bits are the truth and what bits are advertsing hyperbole.
Silly me! I though every part of every ad on TV was literal truth.
Silver lining... (Score:4, Insightful)
-psy
Re:Silver lining... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was waiting for someone to pull the PR aspect of this out of the mix!
Welcome to the age where PR is becoming more credible/cost effective than advertising. It hasn't happened yet, but it will.
I work in the advertising/marketing/PR industry, and I can tell you something that I'm sure many have realized already. Advertising is losing effectiveness (thanks to spam/bannerads/popups) and is losing cred
Will Slashdot be banned in the UK (Score:5, Funny)
Nothing is forever: continuing competition (Score:3, Interesting)
This year, we will upgrade to a dual processor system, with an eye toward eventual clustering of larger numbers of them. In comparing dual Xeons with dual G5s, we find that the test numbers are a tossup (Macworld reports PCs are faster; while PCmag resports Macs are a bit faster, which they call "about even"). One thing that isn't much discussed is the big jump in bus speed for the G5, which approaches 1GHz, compared with a typical 400MHz for Intel systems. This should be a boon to I/O intensive jobs.
Surprisingly, the deciding factor may be price: we get bids of about $4k for a dual Xeon system that is equipped comparably with a dual G5 that bids at $3k. So if the top Macs aren't definitively faster, they are at least certifiably cheaper! Who knew?
But Apple would clearly prefer to be fastest rather than cheapest, and hence their advertising approach stresses speed for the money rather than money for the speed. One person's miles per gallon is another's liters per 100km...
This continuing competition is clearly a win-win situation for consumers. May it continue...
Not the first time Apple has to pull an advert (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Irony (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Irony (Score:2)
On the other hand, it is preaching to the converted.
Re:Irony (Score:3, Funny)
He must be listening to Allanis Morrisette again.
Don't ya think?
Re:Irony (Score:2)
Now THATS irony!
That an Apple ad is in quicktime? I think not.
Re:the FASTEST computers? Oh come on, now (Score:3, Funny)
Is it possible... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:the FASTEST computers? Oh come on, now (Score:2, Informative)
Re:the FASTEST computers? Oh come on, now (Score:2)
Re:based partially on SPEC benchmarks (Score:2)
Re:based partially on SPEC benchmarks (Score:4, Informative)
Now, comparing G5 results with GCC to x86 results with GCC is pretty fair when you are comparing the hardware only, not the software. That is what they claimed to be showing.
Re:based partially on SPEC benchmarks (Score:3, Informative)
Close! The way to compart the hardware is to use the compiler recommended by the Manufacturer for each product. Intel, for performance, would reccomend their own compiler [intel.com] while IBM, who contributed the G5 code generator to the GCC project, would recommend theirs (in this case, GCC.)
Using "GCC" for both isn't fair because the code generators and optimizers are completely different. The o
One Undisputable Troll Fact (Score:4, Funny)
Strait man? Is that a man in a straight jacket? Some guy who monitors ship traffic in the Strait Of Gibraltar? Mark Knopfler?
Lesson 1, Grasshopper: if you're going to troll, at least spell it correctly.
Re:it's getting close and PERSONAL (Score:2)
Re:It's not the world's fastest personal computer (Score:2)
Wouldn't the real difference their be the effiency of the software, not the effiency of actual processor?
Re:BMW -- the pen-Ultimate Driving Machine... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The ITC (Score:5, Informative)
Why is it that some government agency can say what some broadcaster puts on the air.
The ITC is not a government agency. From the ITC website [itc.org.uk]:
As our name suggests, we're independent of the Government and of the broadcasters. We are funded by fees from our licensees, of which there are around 300 who between them hold nearly 600 licences.
When an advertisement lies, at least in the US, you have the right to sue for false advertisement.
In the UK, as you would expect, if you have been wronged in the eyes of the law you can sue. If you don't like the ITC's decision and you have good grounds, sue. We do however try to avoid the US disease of the lawsuit culture.
Wait a second, they are all controled by the ITC.
Half right. All commerical stations are controlled by the ITC. The BBC is self-regulating.
Re:The ITC (Score:3, Insightful)
Suing is never easy or risk free. You can win and still be stuck with enormous legal costs, or you might be awarded costs, maybe. Or you lose, in which case you would lose big. In any case the lawyers win. And suing a well-healed corporation is even more risky, they can afford expensive lawyers that are more likely to win (if nothing else), or they can just buy you off (in which case the advert stands and other, less knowing people will get rippe
Re:Centrino? (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, but one gets the feeling that the folks at Virginia Tech haven't grasped what a computer is for.
To help keep the ambitious job on schedule, "we used an assembly line of volunteer students to unpack computers and perform many of the routine but time consuming functions." Patricia Arvin, associate vice president of information systems and computing,... [emphasis mine]
http://computing.vt.edu/research_computing/teras cale/pressrelease.html
Re:Seems like censorship but we like it (Score:3, Insightful)
Changes of that happening here in the US are next to nil, as we cling to the shibboleth of deregulation even when it brings us crisis after crisis in energy, health, stocks, banking, industry, etc. If your Blair keeps studying his lessons well, you can have our troubles, too.