iPod Media Reader Slowness 87
gsfprez writes "According to an official statement by Belkin over at iPodlounge, the reason it takes 22 minutes to transfer a few pictures from your digital SLR's CF card to your iPod with their $99 iPod Media Reader is that, well, that's how they designed it. They wanted to 'address the needs of the largest percentage of owners of digital cameras and iPods,' because -- and let's be honest -- when you want to transfer 128 megs of pictures from your $200 digital camera, you think '$600 worth of iPod and media reader please!,' and not $14 flash readers." Belkin did say they are trying to work out a solution with Apple, perhaps in the iPod firmware, but it seems the problem may be with the design of the reader itself.
Is there a limit on the cards themselves? (Score:3, Interesting)
Alex.
Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves? (Score:2)
Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves? (Score:2, Insightful)
But does it matter for a flash card reader?
If the speed of reading/writing CF cards is slower than 12Mbps, then a FW reader will be just as slow as a USB reader.
Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves? (Score:5, Informative)
there are already CF Firewire adaptors out there.. CF can go really fast...
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/mediacompare/
this shows that moost cards can write around 2MB/sec and read almost twice that speed...
its an issue with the reader that its only going 300kb/sec... as even the cheapest cards can go about 2000kb/sec.
Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves? (Score:2, Insightful)
My point is simply that if the card reader's speed is under 12Mbps, then it won't matter if the interface is FireWire or USB.
If the reader's speed is faster, of course, then the choice of interface probably will make a difference.
Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves? (Score:1)
When using my USB memory stick-thing (128 MB), my G4 is MUCH slower than the work-PC plus the G4 seems to choke on transferring large (50 MB) files or even numerous files that add up to 50 MB+.
I haven't done any timings, but this may turn out to be an Apple issue at the core (hahaha a joke!) of it.
INTERESTING FOOTNOTE: going here [beyondlogic.org] reveals that USB1 has two possible speeds: 12 Mbps and 1.5 Mbps. Perhaps the transfer speed being employed is the lower of the two...
Re:Is there a limit on the cards themselves? (Score:2)
22 Minutes?! (Score:3, Funny)
*ducks*
Re:22 Minutes?! (Score:1)
I guess I don't get it. (Score:2, Insightful)
What does the Submitter mean. Can somebody translate it for me?
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:2)
But Belkin's reader is slower than the $14 reader, so it would be a waste of money to buy the thing.
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:1)
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:2)
I have no idea why this is news either.
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:2, Insightful)
If you RTFA, you'd see that the issue is that this $99 reader underperforms a $14 USB adaptor - and the reason why is that Belkin assumes that "typical consumers using a 128 meg card" are the
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:2)
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:1)
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:2)
The real problem is that you bought a card reader based on price, not performance. As you stated, you were expecting the Belkin reader to outperform the $14 reader simply because the average user would never spend $99 on a card reader. You should have done your homework.
If the card reader wasn't meeting the advertised data rate, you'd have a s
Re:I guess I don't get it. (Score:2)
Touchy aren't we? Yes, your submission is poorly written. I am doing a cross disciplinary PhD which involves linguistics and I had to read it three times before I could make sense of it. Your response to this criticism is utterly uncalled for. Pathetic.
Son of a bitch... (Score:4, Funny)
it seems.... (Score:1, Funny)
Well that sucks (Score:1)
I work as a photojournalist at a local newspaper, just about to switch to digital photography. It would be great to have a small multipurpose device to backup a compact flash card but ~22 minutes for a 512MB card? Half-time at a football game isn't even that long...
My USB 1.1 card reader doesn't take that long...
I certainly hope they fix this problem. This looked as though it could have been yet another killer app for
Check out Lyra, Archos for built-in CF support and (Score:3, Informative)
Using an extra $100 under-performing clunky gadget to send data to a device with no image viewing seems like a losing proposition. I like the look of the new Lyra [amazon.com] ($400) and Archos [amazon.com] ($600... too rich for me!). Both seem to have CF built-in, and support other media with adapters. Both feature full-
usb2 device available (Score:2)
X's drive USB2 [compgeeks.com]
They also have a regular usb version
belkin and macs... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:belkin and macs... (Score:1)
And why do they use a parellel cable on a USB device for the firmware?
And why does the Belkin USB KVM suck? It does not release the shift key at times, and using the arrow keys with a Mac really messes it up by pinting 4's or 6' accross the screen.
Belkin KVM - garbage (Score:2)
I bought an Omniview KVM and it works pretty well with both Mac and PC (as it should, actually claiming to support OS X on the box) - the only problem is the audio control keys on an Apple keyboard do not seem to make it through.
I also had some video display problems with the Belkin. I have come to the conclusion they must be a bunch of talentless hacks, and I doubt I would buy anything from them again.
Re:Belkin KVM - garbage (Score:2)
I tried the ioGear USB KVM. Same problem. Apparently USB KVM switches "cheat" by pretending to be a generic USB keyboard and mouse. That's what they tell your computers, no matter what kind of keyboard or mouse you actually have installed. At least (IIRC) the Belkin unit is flash upgradeable, unlike the ioGear unit.
In my case, I was forced to get rid of the ioGear unit because it was repeating keydown events
IoGear works for me... (Score:2)
I agree we have a really poor set of KVM's around right now - I can't believe these things have not been updated more by now as a lot of people at least have a USB mouse.
Re:IoGear works for me... (Score:2)
The ioGear also had a pair of "Device" USB ports which didn't go through any keyboard/mouse translation, but those were not switched from the front panel buttons. You could only switch them from a key sequence on the "console" keyboard! (Console keyboard meaning either the front USB
Re:belkin and macs... (Score:2)
I originally bought it for my wife's TiBook with the intent of writing an OSX driver for it, but I'm not going to bother anymore. I'd suggest looking elsewhere. It's sad
Re:belkin and macs... (Score:2)
Re:belkin and macs... (Score:2)
Do you know of a USBSerial dongle that is actually GOOD? I have problems with my belkin piece of crap all the time.. I have to reset the com port so that it starts receiving every byte that comes in, etc... Don't even get me started on how the bastard device supports (or rather doesnt) power management. I am looking for port-powered if possible but using an external power supply will work also if it's simply the only way to get a good device...
Re:belkin and macs... (Score:1)
Keyspan's USA-19QW works a treat on OS X, Classic (within OS X) and Win98SE.
The only annoying thing is the "You unplugged the device while an application was using it" pop-up if you're using it with Palm Hotsync and you unplug the dongle. Normal applications that actually close the device when they're done won't have this problem.
Parallel print adaptor as well (Score:2, Informative)
Whats the big deal? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2, Insightful)
And even so - you could buy 6 128 meg CF cards for the price of this lame reader...
ripping out a CF card and copying its contents to an iPod because you ran out of space is a PRO thing to do... average users will just either jam in their other 128 meg card or they will stop taking pictures.
the reader is $100. Most "average" cameras are about $200. That seems already to be out of range in price
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, enough. I'm in the market for this, even after reading your muddled commentary. I spent $700 for my camera, because I like the features that that quality of camera added. Which means, incidentally, that I fill up my CF cards faster than a cheap camera, because my pics tend to be higher res, and therefore the pics take more memory.
So--when I travel to distant and exotic lands on vacations of a few weeks, I would still much rather take an iPod with this adapter and dump photos from a 256M card, than have to take an iBook and find places to charge it.
If it means that every 2-3 days, when I've filled up a 256M card, that it takes me 30 mins to upload to my iPod--yeah, I'm happy to do it. And I'll buy the adapter to do it with. I would still rather do that than carry my iBook through the hinterlands of Russia and Turkey.
So get over your damn self. Sorry the product didn't work for you. I still think it'll work for some people. Reporting the facts w/o sarcasm would have made for a better case. As it is, it seems like you're bent on convincing everyone else that this product will also suck for them, regardless if their needs are not your own.
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
Well, it gets 10 hours when playing music, so I would expect at least that. But this requires much less power than music playing, so probably a lot more. 10 hours would provide 20 transfers; twice as many would be 40 transfers. And then I maybe need to charge it, once. So I don't think that'll be an issue, either.
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
It's only when the media you require becomes more expensive or bulky than the media reader itself, that the media reader would be beneficial. And I'm sorry, if you are taking that many photos, or of a high enough quality, that an extra 512MB card is not enough for your vacation, then you simply are not an average us
Re:Whats the big deal? (Score:2)
that price comparison is unfair (Score:4, Informative)
Dudes Relax (Score:2, Insightful)
As most programmers/developers know it is hard to balance the needs of ones users. For some the speed issue is a big deal, for most it is a slight inconvenience. If you have an iPod spending $100 for the convenience of a digital wallet is a lot better then spending another $600 and a dedicated/fast digital wallet. But is you have money to burn and you can't figure
iPod woes (Score:4, Funny)
I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you iPod fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of an iPod (30GB) for about 22 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to my iPod. 22 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this iPod, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.
In addition, during this file transfer, songs will not play. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even the backlight is straining to keep up as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on this iPod, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen an iPod that has run faster than other music players, despite the iPod's faster chip architecture. My Vic 20 with 16KB of ram runs faster than this iPod at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the iPod is a "superior" music player.
iPod addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use an iPod over other faster, cheaper, more stable players.
Re:iPod woes (Score:1)
Re:iPod woes (Score:2)
Re:iPod woes (Score:2)
Re:iPod woes (Score:2)
Anyway, to make a long story short, there is clearly something wrong with your setup. I have no such delay when copying files to the iPod. Yes, music doesn't play while copying, but since it happens in a few seconds for any reasonable size file, i never figured it
Ahh shit (Score:2)
I've been reading some other posts, and I think I figured out why everyone thinks this is funny. I guess that is what happens when you take time off from reading Slashdot. You don't know what the latest trolls are, last I heard, we were in Soviet Russia or something.
-Spyky
For those of you who were watching K5... (Score:1)
The Soviets are old news. We're welcoming new overlords now. Please try to keep up.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:1)
How I plan to use it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll have two cheap memory cards (either 128MB or 256MB), and when I fill one, I'll put it into the iPod adaptor and start the transfer while using the other card in my camera. That should be about 10 minutes to load a full 256MB card. I don't expect I will fill the other 256MB card that fast (if I do, then I *really* worry about how fast I'll fill my computer's HD at over 1GB/hour!).
The real benefit here is I can take my camera on vacation, or just out and about, and not have to carry around my notebook. This is a *huge* benefit. Couple that with only needing two memory cards (even two 128MB cards will be enough), and this is looking real handy *and* cost saving (I already have an iPod).
The drawbacks? It's not instantaneous and it takes batteries. Not a huge problem, and if it's something that can be done better, someone will. If not, I'm still better off than I was before.
I don't understand the sarcasm of the story's submitter. Sounds like the guy has issues. I bet he doesn't have an iPod or he'd see that Belkin has put to market something that can add to the utility of his iPod, if he wants it. If he doesn't want it, he's no worse off than he was before and he still has an iPod.
Re:How I plan to use it. (Score:2)
my "issue" is that the biggest audience for this is pro users who want a quick easy way to dump their 512 and larger cards on the run... and that Belkin said it happened at "Firewire speeds".
300kb sec is not "Firewire speeds" on anyones planet. Its not even USB 1 speed.
Re:How I plan to use it. (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no way the biggest audience is the pro user. The pool of potential buyers are iPod owners who also own digital cameras and have a Mac. The device has reduced battery life when used with a microdrive and doesn't even support MemoryStick Pro. It's clearly not targeted at the pro market, but the iLife consumer. Belkin is offering them, for $100, the ability to completely stop worrying about running out of flash memory at their friend's birthday party, at the beach, on the slopes, etc.
You have the tone of someone who never really considered buying one, but enjoys taking arms against Evil Corporations(tm). If you were a pro who thought this was a pro quality device, you'd just pass up on it after seeing its limitations and go buy another 3GB microdrive. If you were the target consumer, you'd not really complain because for it's lack of speed, it's still better than what you already have, and it might even be worth $100 to you. If you are a "prosumer", well you should be used to the frustration of prosumer digicam equipment which is rarely pro quality or consumer priced.
You didn't submit a review of the device giving it the thumbs down for speed, you spat venom at Belkin and did it in such a way that leaves the reader confused about almost everything except the fact that you seem to be upset.
Re:How I plan to use it. (Score:2)
Re:How I plan to use it. (Score:2)
Why I'm not gonna buy one (or an iPod for that mat (Score:2, Interesting)
I was real excited about this reader because it was the one thing keeping me from buying an iPod. This slowness, however, is a deal killer for me. I have heaps of flash cards but I still like to back everything up as soon as a card fills (and I don't use huge
Re:Digital Wallet (Score:1)
That said, I think waiting is a good idea. I have always wanted an iPod, but to lay out that kind of cash simply for music portability is just not worth it to me.
Ideally, I want a reader that is smaller, cheaper AND faster than this Belkin device. I'll see what shakes out in the next few week
"My Issue" is bait and switch (Score:5, Insightful)
You wouldn't put up with that if it was a USB 2 device operating at 300 kbps, would you?
On the Apple Store's webpage, it clearly and openly says..
"Using software support that's built into your iPod (iPod software version 2.1 or later), transfer your pictures quickly via FireWire technology and you're ready to start shooting again. "
A reasonable person would assume that such a device would operate at such speeds. Or do we all quickly forget the 1st gen pre-Oxford 911 based IDE hard drive cases that were horribly slow and never mentioned that they couldn't possibly give you back even the the bandwidth of IDE, let alone Firewire. MacAlly got hammered in the press and by their customers over that whole debachle - as well they should have.
A reasonable person purchasing this product would assume that "transferring pictures quickly via Firewire" would not mean - "transfers slower than USB 1 devices".
"My issue" is that this $99 "Firewire technology" reader gets its ass handed to it by a $14 USB 1 device. That's unreasonable.
If they (Belkin and Apple on their store page) were to point out "while this uses Firewire, it does not transfer ANYWHERE near Firewire speeds, and in fact, its slower than USB 1", then there would be no "issue"
Your 'issue' (Score:4, Insightful)
Just chill out for a sec and listen.
Yes, the iPod,/i> is a FireWire device. The card-reader is NOT. The issue is not FireWire. It has nothing whatsoever to do with FireWire. It has to do with how Belkin has implemented this card-reading tech.
I mean, it sounds a tad slow to me too, but a 128MB card in 6 minutes.. on a portable device that has an 8-hour battery.. is not a big deal. It's still way more convenient than lugging around a laptop.
By the way, it sounds like you've got an axe to grind about FireWire though. I'll give you a bit of advice; its okay to hate a plug. The plug doesn't hate you. Move on to other plugs if you hate that one.
Re:Your 'issue' (Score:1)
Did you USE any of the early FireWire to IDE bridges?
You'd have an axe to grind too; the OP was very clear about the pre-Oxford911 chipset bridges. They sucked. They sucked camels through soda straws. They were slow; they would crash the whole bus; they would not work with each other for no apparent reason. Total crap.
Re:"My Issue" is bait and switch (Score:3)
X-Drive (Score:2, Insightful)
I have an iPod and $99 for this big bulky media reader junk is just stupid. I currently use some off-brand (sigma is maybe the brand name, i think..) device that has a compactflash port and takes a 2.5" HDD. It dumps out the cards to the HDD at 5-10MB/s and sometimes a little faster with microdrives.. It was about $200 including a 30GB drive. When I need to get the files off of it, it's got a slick
Just wait... (Score:2, Funny)
Yes, I'm being sarcastic...
Sounds useful. (Score:2)
Another idea (Score:1, Offtopic)
There are so many things they need to fix (Score:1)
Re:There are so many things they need to fix (Score:1)
Where's the real limitation here?... (Score:1)